Brewbound Podcast

A new year means it’s Brewbound’s annual roundtable conversation with our peers in beer industry journalism. This year, the Brewbound team is joined by Kate Bernot, lead analyst for Feel Goods Insights, and David Steinman, VP and executive editor of Beer Marketer’s Insights. The discussion covers the biggest bev-alc news stories of 2025, including middle-tier consolidation, overall category health and consumer sentiment. Although full-year scan data has yet to arrive, the beer category is poised to finish 2025 with low- to moderate-single-digit declines in dollar sales and volume, if the trends of the first 11 months hold. “We’re looking at decline after decline after decline – it’s something like 30 million barrels down from our recent peak,” Steinman said, adding that “some of that was inflated from the pandemic gains.” “It felt like it was going to normalize at least multiple times over, and it just keeps on declining at this rate,” he continued. “It’s hard to really put a finger on exactly one thing, but it’s easy to look at the broad-brush of impacts on the trends, and it’s just a tougher business now than it really ever has been for a consistent stretch.” The usual suspects of health and wellness trends, Gen Zs’ alleged broad aversion to alcohol and the rise of intoxicating hemp dominate conversations elsewhere, but Bernot posited that there’s something bigger at play. “The story that maybe went under-discussed for me last year was the broader macroeconomic factors going on in the U.S. and the pressure on the average consumer and how that fits into the choices people are making,” she said. “We hear so much about health. We hear so much about cannabis, THC, etc, competing categories. “I just didn’t hear enough about how pressured the average U.S. consumer feels,” Bernot continued. “We’ve known for a long time that well-off Americans are carrying a lot of water for the U.S. economy, but they can’t do it forever, and especially not in general CPG. You can only go out to a restaurant so many times. You only need so many cases of beer if you’re a wealthy family.” In addition to high-level impacts on the beer business, the conversation also explored granular topics, such as the rise of Guinness in the on-premise, seismic shifts in California distribution and Anheuser-Busch InBev’s growing strength in beyond beer. Listen here or on your preferred podcast platform.

Brewbound Live 2025 is in the books! Podcast co-hosts Zoe Licata and Jessica Infante recap this year’s conference. Then, Karl Strauss Brewing (San Diego, CA) co-founder and CEO Chris Cramer joins Brewbound editor Justin Kendall for this week’s featured interview. The conversation was recorded at the California Craft Beer Summit last month in Irvine, CA, hosted by the California Craft Brewers Association. Cramer brought his signature sunny disposition to the chat, and discussed Karl Strauss’s current trends, brewpub traffic and long-running partnership with Disneyland’s California Adventure. “In general, our industry seems to be outperforming the rest of beverage-alcohol, which is not part of the current narrative,” Cramer said. “For each of us as craft brewers here in this state, our greatest opportunity is looking into ourselves and seeing what we can authentically own as a brand and communicating that to our consumers and our fans and then helping them share that joy with others.” He urged California craft brewers to take pride in the significance they have in the state’s culture and economy, which is a cornerstone for the nation’s craft brewing industry. Before the interview, Zoe and Jess highlight panel discussions they moderated during Brewbound Live, including a conversation about the bev-alc segments still drawing interest from the investment community. They also discuss recent beer industry news, including Anheuser-Busch InBev’s plan to sell one brewery and close two more, November Circana off-premise data and the North Carolina community’s reaction to the arrest of Sycamore Brewing’s co-founder. Programming note: the Brewbound Podcast will not publish an episode on December 24, but will return on December 31. Listen to the episode here or on your preferred podcast platform:

Nearly a year on the job, new-ish Lagunitas CEO Bernardo Spielmann is seeing opportunities for the legacy California craft beer brand. Those opportunities include expanding Lagunitas Hazy IPA from a draft-only release to package, building on the successful launch of 9% ABV Hazicus Maximus hazy IPA, which now boasts 20,000 points of distribution, and revamping the packaging for non-alcoholic hop water Hoppy Refresher. On the latest edition of the Brewbound Podcast, Spielmann shares that it’s also about listening to consumers, who demanded the return of seasonal Unrefined Shugga’, the 10% ABV strong ale that returned this year as a national play in bottles and club packs. Spielmann tells Brewbound managing editor Jess Infante that the goal is to see what resonates and respond quickly. “More and more as the craft segment matures, we’re going to have to be sharper per channel, per market, per SKU how you want to build your proposition,” he said. “There will be a rationalization and that’s the expected approach. We need to facilitate that for retailers but also our distributors. It’s also part of our strategy to be very sharp on how we launch or roll out innovations and the tradeoffs.” Spielmann also discusses the beer category’s need to bring back socializing and capture those occasions. He explains how Lagunitas is doing its part with its “Party Legend” brand activation, which celebrates consumers who are the life of the party. But first, Brewbound editor Justin Kendall and managing editor Jess Infante discuss the sudden closure of Rogue Ales & Spirits and why the shuttering of a top 50 craft brewery is jarring for the public and industry. They also dig into the rumored sale talks of party punch maker BeatBox to Anheuser-Busch InBev. Jess and Justin also share their experiences, including a visit to Tree House’s country club/golf course/taproom and the scuttlebutt from the California Craft Brewers Association’s Summit and the Iowa Craft Brewers Guild’s I-Best meeting. Listen here or on your preferred podcast platform.

Bars, restaurants and social gathering spaces are beer’s “moneyball” opportunity, National Beer Wholesalers Association VP of analytics and chief economist Lester Jones shares during the latest edition of the Brewbound Podcast. Jones is the first of two interviews this week. Adam and Amanda Kroener, the founders of spirits-based cocktail brand Carbliss, also join this week’s podcast to share their slow approach to brand building and goal of becoming a national brand. First, Jones explains why the on-premise channel remains the key to unlocking wins for brewers. “We can go looking for home runs all day long, but at some point, you’ve got to have the base hitters,” Jones said. “You gotta have the guys when they step up to the plate, you’re gonna move the game forward.” While placements in off-premise chains such as Walmart, Kroger, HEB, 7-Eleven and others are analogous to home runs, getting a tap handle is a solid base hit on the way to scoring, and brewers shouldn’t lose sight of those singles. Jones also discusses why he believes craft beer’s funk is potentially ending, why the ethanol pie was cut too many ways, how beer is competing for dayparts and why beer needs to bring fun and socializing back. Then, the Kroeners discuss their methodical approach to brand building and why it has worked for the family-owned and run Midwestern-based canned cocktail brand. They also dish on Carbliss’ entry into warm weather markets such as Florida and being one of the most successful brands that people have never heard of. “The fun part is, when we come out to places like Vegas, if you’re not in the industry, you’ve never heard of us,” Adam says. “But at the same time, if you’re looking at the Circana or Nielsen data, we’re a top three, four, five brand in dollars. So it is a fun, cool thing to be this biggest thing that some people have never heard of.” Before the interviews, Justin, Jess and Zoe recap the latest industry news, including Brooklyn Brewery outsourcing sales to U.S. Beverage, BeatBox’s forthcoming Chillitas line, Surfside’s lawsuit against Anheuser-Busch InBev over Skimmers hard tea and George Clooney joining the non-alcoholic beer game. Listen here or on your preferred podcast platform.

Less has been more with BrewDog’s U.S. business over the last year and a half. On the latest episode of the Brewbound Podcast, BrewDog USA chief sales and marketing officer Eric Teodoro Franco explains how the business has “done fewer things better,” leading with a focus on its core brands, which helped the brand increase volume 26% last year, to 89,084 barrels of beer, according to data from the Brewers Association (BA). “We were very, very famous and very willing to be famous for throwing a lot against the wall and seeing what would stick for many, many years,” Franco shared. “We can do that in the U.K. where you have a 50-plus share and you can develop a lot of things and trial and try new things. “In this market, we did that and it didn’t work. We’ve really taken our range plan, we’ve taken our focuses down to really doing fewer and better things.” That’s led to improved wholesaler partnerships and led to a redeployment of BrewDog’s teams to better support its core markets, Franco said. Additionally, BrewDog USA has been given the opportunity to run its operations with some autonomy from its homebase in Scotland as its U.S. leadership team has earned the trust of the global team. “We’re running things the way we need to run them,” Franco said. “Same on the food side and on the retail side of our business. “For many years, we were very much driven by what the U.K. or international bars looked like, and we would apply that narrative, if you will, or business plan to the U.S. bars. That’s gone away as well.” Franco also discusses how the exits of founders James Watt and Martin Dickie have affected the U.S. business, how the company is approaching innovation and how the company has rethought both its distribution footprint and its taproom strategy. Before the interview, Brewbound’s Justin Kendall, Jessica Infante and Zoe Lica break down the impending closure of 21st Amendment Brewery, the removal of a study from the dietary guidelines process and the challenges of making an alcoholic version of better-for-you soda. They also dig into TikTok trends and the latest grousing about Generation Z’s bar habits. Listen here or on your preferred podcast platform.

While defending shelf space remains important, suppliers need to make sure they’re also retaining lucrative display, floor, promotional and feature space, Bump Williams Consulting (BWC) president Dave Williams and VP of business development and portfolio strategy Brian “BK” Krueger shared in the latest edition of the Brewbound Podcast. “That’s what really multiplies anything that you have on the shelf,” Krueger said. Beer brands’ display losses aren’t just coming from competitors within the category – they’re coming from other mega alcohol categories and even non-alcoholic (NA) beverages. “If you look at what’s on the floor on display now, it’s less alcohol across the board,” Krueger said. “You’re seeing more of the sodas, more of the flavor, more of the Olipops, more of the Poppis that are getting that space that used to be 50-, 60-case stacks of beer or seltzer or craft or domestic or import. “Now, it’s gone, it’s out of the mix,” he continued. “And the frequency has also eroded away as well.” Williams stressed that suppliers need to maintain alignment with their wholesaler and retailer partners to protect that space, which will be key to winning in the future. That alignment comes from being present in the market to maintain those relationships. In their conversation with Brewbound senior reporter Zoe Licata, Williams and Krueger also discuss first-half 2025 trends in detail with a few reality checks along the way. “It hasn’t gotten notably worse, but it hasn’t also gotten markedly better,” Williams said of early year trends. “The reality [is] that beer and malt in particular based products, that consumer isn’t coming back around in large droves. “I don’t expect volume to come back in any meaningful way,” he continued. “There are certainly some individual winners … I think a lot of behaviors from consumers right now are drawing people outside of the beer/malt world. They’re slowing down their frequency of consumption or volume that they’re consuming when they do go out and make a purchase at the package store. Krueger and Williams also share how craft brewers are leveraging other areas of bev-alc for growth, what’s contributing to flavored malt beverages’ (FMB) struggles this year and whether consumers are making pricing-based decisions. Plus, the Brewbound team reconvenes to discuss Jim Koch’s return as CEO of Boston Beer and Michael Spillane’s forthcoming exit after 16 months. Justin, Jess and Zoe explain why the CEO change felt out of left field, what it means for Koch to return to power after 24 years and how the conversation around internal candidates is being framed. Listen here or on your preferred podcast platform.

Brian Clayton, CEO of Clayton Hops, discusses the company’s growth to four farms in New Zealand and their innovative hop products. He highlights their Amplifire™ pellets and oil, which boost flavor and aroma, increase beer yields, and offer environmental benefits like a low carbon footprint due to direct oil extraction from wet hop cones. These products are ideal for cold-side applications and also work well in hop waters and non-alcoholic beers. Clayton also shares their rapid processing of T90 hop pellets, achieving completion within seven days of harvest. The company is introducing new hop varieties in partnership with Plant & Food Research, with commercial availability expected in 2025, offering unique “kiwi” flavors for brewers. Despite a 10% US tariff, the favorable foreign exchange rate helps maintain affordability. He invites interested parties to learn more and order through their website, which includes an e-commerce platform for US customers. About Clayton Hops: We are New Zealand’s largest hop grower, producing flavourful aromatic hops that we process in our world-class hop processing, packaging and cool store facility. We supply our hop products to brewers around the globe. We have an impressive innovation line up, with brewers in mind. This includes the Southern Hemisphere’s first and only cryogenic processing line to make concentrated hop pellets. We also produce concentrated fresh hop oil products here in New Zealand. It’s not just products, there are new and exciting hop varieties that we are bringing to the market, thanks to our partnership with Plant & Food Research, our country’s leading hop breeder. Clayton Hops has brought real scale, sophistication and innovation to the New Zealand hops industry, being key pillars to producing a reliable supply of premium quality hop products and continually improving environmental outcomes.