How Lawson’s Stays on Brand, and Rhinegeist’s Plans Amid Hemp-Bev Prohibition

[00:00:00] Justin Kendall: Next on The Brewbound Podcast, interviews with Adeline Druart from Lawson's Finest Liquids and Adam Bankovich from Rhinegeist. Hello and welcome to The Brewbound Podcast. I'm Justin Kendall. I'm Jessica Infante.

[00:00:26] Zoe Licata: And I'm Zoe Licata.

[00:00:27] Justin Kendall: Zoe, I know the F1 race is long over. I have no idea about the results, but how was Miami? How was the race? And give us the concession stand update.

[00:00:41] Zoe Licata: Yeah. don't have to talk about the results because those are, you know, they're slightly traumatic. But the race itself was fun. The ambiance was great. The weather was hot, 10 degrees hotter than last year, which means there was a lot of folks at all of the concession stands drinking a lot of beverages, alcoholic and otherwise, to cool down. It was, I think it reached up to like 97 on Saturday. So it was very, very hot. And it was very similar to last year where it's a lot of Heineken all over the place. This is one of the races that they aren't a race sponsor for, specifically like a title sponsor. They have a good handful of those, but Miami is not one of them. Crypto.com gets Miami. What a world. Yeah. But you wouldn't know it because Heineken is plastered everywhere. It is on the walls, on the track. They have their own little stands, like kind of bleacher standing areas. They had little simulators where you had to be 21 to enter this space because it was created by Heineken, but you sit in a car and you pretended you were driving and they recorded a video of your face. And then they had Heineken, regular Heineken, Heineken Silver, and Heineken Zero Zero at basically every concession stand.

[00:01:57] Justin Kendall: None of the new stuff?

[00:01:58] Zoe Licata: But none of the new stuff, which I was kind of sad. I wanted to try some of those new Heineken 00 flavors, but nope, stuck to the same old ones as last year.

[00:02:07] Bump Williams: What are the vibes on Silver? Do you see people drinking it?

[00:02:11] Zoe Licata: Other than myself, not a lot. Yeah. I mean, there was a good handful of folks, but I mean, honestly, if you didn't know what Heineken Silver was, I don't think you would really have any reason to reach for it because they weren't really marketing it at all as like what it was. So most folks I saw were getting Heineken or mostly at all the little vendor carts around. High Noon was abound. I wish I took a photo of, we walked by one time and there was five or six, at least, I don't know, like 30 something year old white dudes waiting as the vendor pulled out stacks and stacks of high noons to make sure they each got their like two allowance. It was quite a scene of just, he kept pulling out the high noons.

[00:02:54] Justin Kendall: How much is a high noon?

[00:02:56] Zoe Licata: High noon there, I want to say it was, $13 to $14, which is kind of crazy. For a 12 ounce? For... For big guys. A 12 ounce. But the hack was if you went into the Hard Rock Stadium, which is kind of in the middle of this whole campus They have those grab-and-go Areas, you know those kind of creepy AI's things you scan your credit card you walk in you walk out and Those had 24 ounce cans of a bunch of different things including neutrals and those were $16 Does the robot also check your ID? It does not. And I had many questions because there were human people checking to make sure you could go through this gate properly, but there was no one checking anyone's ID. And I don't know if just everyone, they're just like, oh no, you all look old. But I know at least when they had this at the garden here And Boston, they would check your ID before you walked in. There was none of that here. So yeah, a pretty penny spent on alcohol while you're there for sure, but it could have been worse. Honestly, I've seen worse. I think the gardens prices are probably worse than this was for some things. It was $12 or $13 to get a 16 ounce beer or $15 if you went into the stadium and got the big boys.

[00:04:26] Justin Kendall: Well, if you want, I can pick you up some clearance rack, Bourbon County style, if you're in the market.

[00:04:33] Zoe Licata: Maybe, but I don't think I could bring it in now. They're very high security. But another year gone, then I'll probably be back again.

[00:04:43] Bump Williams: How are the race day nails?

[00:04:46] Zoe Licata: They're still in great shape. Nice. Yes. That was my like one of two days. I get my race day nails and I get my Brewbound Live nails. And then all other days are cheap. Press on their regular manicures. Two equally luxurious events, Brewbound Live and the Miami Formula One Grand Prix.

[00:05:06] Justin Kendall: Well, speaking of Brewbound Live, December 9th and 10th, you can get your tickets now. Very excited to be back in Marina Del Rey this December. Get your tickets now, and we should have some official announcements going up very soon. Stay tuned. Also, you can hit up Brewbound's job board, or you can list some jobs on Brewbound's job board, as Jess likes to point out. And I mean, we got some great jobs up there right now.

[00:05:34] Bump Williams: We really do. I believe Lawson's is hiring a director of hospitality. Cool job.

[00:05:40] Justin Kendall: Yeah, so if you're looking, might as well hit it up. That's a nice segue into this week's featured guests. We've got Adeline Druart, the CEO of Lawson's Finest Liquids. And then we have Adam Bankovich, the CEO of Rhinegeist. A pair of conversations we recorded at the Craft Brewers Conference on the Brew Expo trade show floor. So stay tuned for those. But let's get into the news. And speaking of CBC and the positive vibes, sunny vibes, It's permeating. Bump Williams Consulting's work recently.

[00:06:18] Zoe Licata: Yeah, people are listening to Bart. His message worked, at least with some of these data folks. The latest monthly report from Bump Williams called out the CBC messaging of looking for more positive things happening in craft and took it to heart. And so the latest. is diving into what is working or where people are finding growth and found there is actually a what they refer to as a success rate or a higher growth rate with some of the smaller craft brands you know some of the folks within that kind of 100 to 250 ranking that are up to low 40 percent rate which is pretty good compared to the average is more like low to mid 30s. And so we dove right into how that varies depending on size, as well as how some of these smaller craft brands with pretty teeny tiny distribution footprints are finding some of the highest sales rates in distribution as well at retail. You can look into all those details at brewpanda.com. I won't go through all those here because it's not as interesting to talk through as it is to visualize it all, but lots of positivity for sure.

[00:07:31] Justin Kendall: Before we go though, let's call out some of the brands that are making it happen.

[00:07:35] Zoe Licata: Yeah, within kind of the top 20, Russian River was in there. I mean, they're six overall in terms of growth brands within craft, but 27 within year-to-date sales for all craft brand families. They only have 1.6% CWD. So to have that, but be a top six growth brand, that's pretty massive. Other callouts in there, Creature Comforts, Fort George, Trailhead, Texas Special is in there, Manhattan Projects, Harland, Parrish, a bunch of these folks, those are all less than 3% CWD. Some of those, a small Trailhead is 0.6%. I mean, if you go even further past top 20 growth brands and over to 21 to 40, it gets even tinier. Barntown was 31st in growth brands, but it's 322 overall, and it has a 0.1% TWD.

[00:08:32] Justin Kendall: an Iowa brand.

[00:08:33] Zoe Licata: Yeah, so they're kind of super hyper local brands that aren't widespread nationally, but within those markets they are able to really find notable growth. Russian River also had the highest dollar sales rate per item per store at over $1,100. Which is pretty massive original pattern, which is the 36 largest craft growth brand was the second at? $1,076 per item per store So you can make a pretty big impact with not a lot of actual physical space, which is cool to see absolutely

[00:09:13] Justin Kendall: Let's shift gears a little bit and talk about another story that you worked on, and that was the leadership changes at the American Cider Association. CEO Monica Cohen has left the org, and they're going to a staff-led operating model.

[00:09:29] Zoe Licata: Yeah, they announced this in their newsletter a few days ago, kind of slipped it in that, yeah, Monica, you know, she was there for a little over a year. They really kind of trialed something new. Monica came in, she had no prior cider experience, but had been working in the dairy field for a long time. But she, yeah, she has departed the company and they are now having a crew of their kind of board members and other key American Cider Association department leaders take over leadership of the trade group. And you kind of knew that something was happening. I mean, we had talked about after I attended CiderCon earlier this year, that they were really reevaluating how the ACA is structured and they're looking at how they could be in a better financial position as well as better serve its members. And so it just seemed like, you know, Monica came in with a lot of enthusiasm, but it just wasn't, it didn't have the changes that they wanted. And so they're, they're trying something new. There are more changes that are going to be announced at a future date, including changes to CiderCon. We don't know what those changes are going to be yet, but they had also mentioned during the event this year that they were looking at how they're going to make that different and be a better event for everyone and just be not as big of a financial load for the ACA. So, I mean, it's something we've heard from a lot of folks that it's these trade groups like the BA, which is a much larger scale than the ACA and the smaller state guilds. It's a lot to take on financially and events in general are really hard to do right now. They're not a super financially viable business right now. And so people are having to reevaluate how they can serve members.

[00:11:10] Justin Kendall: Well, we probably should mention that RNDC has sold off or they're in the process of selling off a couple of more territories. They're going to move Indiana and Kentucky to Breakthrough Beverage. And then Quality Brands is picking up the Dakotas and Nebraska. And this is a story that continues to play out. And we should have our answer on whether that Reyes deal gets across the finish line later this month.

[00:11:39] Zoe Licata: Yeah, I would love this all to get wrapped up and then we can see what the next big story, which is what happens next for all these brands.

[00:11:49] Justin Kendall: Yeah. Well, are you ready to get lit?

[00:11:53] Zoe Licata: No.

[00:11:54] Justin Kendall: No?

[00:11:56] Zoe Licata: I just came back from Miami. I was lit already. I need a break from being lit.

[00:12:01] Justin Kendall: You're glowing before the glow-in-the-dark canisters of 15% ABV malt-based, ready-to-drink offerings in 6.8-ounce, single-serve, light-bulb-shaped containers. And they're resealable. They look like potions, almost.

[00:12:19] Zoe Licata: They do. Yeah, this is Boston Beer's latest Beyond Beer creation. I will say though, these would have fitted nicely at Factory Town in Miami, which was the outdoor like EDM venue that this glow in the dark beverage while you're outside listening to some Maren Garrix. Cool. But that's not necessarily the target with this, as we've learned. No.

[00:12:47] Bump Williams: It was really interesting to me that they're, they've got like, I don't know that I would call it a press release so much as like an information sheet on their website about it. And they share really helpful information for us, like states they're bringing it to and flavors and various product attributes. And I think I admire the restraint shown here in a 6.8 ounce package, you know?

[00:13:13] Justin Kendall: I mean, compared to the former version of Lit, which was 24 ounce cans.

[00:13:19] Bump Williams: Right? Perhaps some flowers for the team.

[00:13:22] Justin Kendall: To be fair, that wasn't Boston Beer. That was another Bev entrepreneur, which Boston Beer acquired the trademarks from, and they've completely revamped whatever brand that was into this. This is a lot.

[00:13:38] Bump Williams: This is a lot of innovation all in one little 6.8 ounce package.

[00:13:43] Justin Kendall: Yeah, six flavors, Strawberry Rita, Blue Raspberry, Peach Mango, Tropical Punch, Grape, Long Island, Iced Tea. They're going to Florida, Ohio, Texas, Washington, and parts of Illinois. More markets to come. And I mean, it's pretty obvious who they're competing with.

[00:14:03] Bump Williams: It's a little bit of a, we see your buzz balls and we raise you one resealable top and some glow in the dark packaging. And what buzz balls we'll respond with, unclear.

[00:14:16] Zoe Licata: Yeah, I'm curious to see what this looks like on shelf or in coolers. We heard from at least some retailers earlier this year that the little like plastic shelves on the doors of coolers has become a really great spot to put alcohol and grab and go stuff. And these would fit on there pretty nicely. So that could be an opportunity for sure.

[00:14:39] Justin Kendall: Do people pregame with 15% ABV products? Because to me that that's probably game over for me after that.

[00:14:48] American Cider: Well, it's tiny. It's not even seven ounces. It's a little baby.

[00:14:51] Zoe Licata: Yeah.

[00:14:52] American Cider: That's how you get your night started.

[00:14:54] Zoe Licata: Yeah. I do know a handful of folks who they, their pregame beverage of choice is a buzz ball or two. Okay. Because it's quick. It gets the job done. So if you're, you know, you get off work and then you have like an event and you are a party or something and you want just like one beverage to really get you in the party mood, you got one and you're good. Or you can bring it with you on the go really quickly. So in that sense, yeah, yeah, it's definitely a thing. I wouldn't say having multiple during a pregame is a thing, but if you're having a short pregame, yes.

[00:15:30] Justin Kendall: Jess, I've got a question for you. If you had a time machine and you went back to 2016, and you stepped into Boston Beer headquarters, and you got to see Jim Cook, and you told him, I'm Justin Fonte. I'm from the future. In the year 2026, you're going to produce a product called Lit. It will be light bulb shaped. It will be an FMB. It will be 15% ABV. It will glow in the dark. What do you think he says to you?

[00:16:01] American Cider: I think he would say that if it goes on a beer distributor's truck, it sounds great.

[00:16:11] Justin Kendall: He absolutely would say that.

[00:16:13] American Cider: Yeah.

[00:16:14] Justin Kendall: Do you think he'd look at you bewildered or do you think he'd write it down?

[00:16:19] Bump Williams: I think he would have written it down. Yeah? Yeah. I can kind of see how all of this happened. It was like, all right, well, not from Jim's perspective, but he's probably in all these meetings too. I don't know. You see they're trying to satisfy a bunch of different drivers, like the package, the resealability, the high ABV, the flavors. And then there's like this one little, like what makes it different is a different shape and also glow in the dark. Very creative. Props to the team. There's a lot going on.

[00:16:51] Justin Kendall: A lot going on.

[00:16:52] Bump Williams: Am I going to drink it?

[00:16:53] American Cider: No, but we'll see what happens.

[00:16:57] Zoe Licata: I want to try it. I want to know what it tastes like. I want to see it glow in the dark. Whenever these things come out, it really reminds me that the next time I'm in Florida, I need to just go to a liquor store and take pictures because every one of these crazy launches is always in Florida. And I don't know how those consumers make any choices about things. So I'd love to just see what that just vastness of random alcohol looks like.

[00:17:23] Justin Kendall: Spend 45 minutes and a Miami total wine.

[00:17:26] Zoe Licata: Yeah.

[00:17:27] Bump Williams: Hmm.

[00:17:29] American Cider: Yeah Well, we will we will be there in Orlando in October in Orlando.

[00:17:33] Zoe Licata: That's true field trip Field trip to the local liquor store.

[00:17:38] Justin Kendall: Yep with that. Let's get to our featured interviews This is Justin Kendall with Brewbound, and we are on the Brew Expo trade show floor at the 2026 Craft Brewers Conference. And I'm joined by Adelaine Drew, our CEO of Lawson's Finest Liquids in Vermont. Thank you for being here.

[00:17:59] Boston Beer: Thank you for having me, Justin. Good morning.

[00:18:01] Justin Kendall: It's always good to see you.

[00:18:03] Boston Beer: Likewise.

[00:18:03] Justin Kendall: I think you crushed our team last night at your party.

[00:18:06] Boston Beer: You know, they're adults.

[00:18:07] Justin Kendall: They are. They are.

[00:18:09] Boston Beer: We all had a good time with sipping on some really good beer.

[00:18:13] Justin Kendall: Yeah. I see what you did there with the sip. And you dropped 81 pages of light reading this morning. You've got your 2025 impact report out. You've given quite a bit of money, more than $547,000 last year. Since 2018, you've given $3 million. Tell me about the programs. I mean, there's so many programs that you have, but what was your biggest takeaway from that impact report?

[00:18:41] Boston Beer: Yeah, thank you. I mean, it's, yeah, it's exciting to launch on Earth Day today, the celebration and the story of really the good that we're doing in the community, the impact we want to have as a craft brewer. I always say that people come to us for the liquid, sip of sunshine, little sip, but we want them to come back for the heart of the company and the purpose that we have. And so 2025 Impact Report, 81 pages, sorry, but there's a lot of great storytelling, great photos that represent what we do, what we stand for. The highlight of the Impact Report, it's really the amount of, I think, non-profits and organizations we touch. Through our social impact program, we have five pillars of impact that we focus on, including the environment through green and screen, being a great place to work, and also our Sunshine Fund. So what is the Sunshine Fund? It's embedded in our taproom. When guests come, we pay living wage to our staff, and so our team does not rely on tips, but instead we We suggest to our guests to donate to non-profits that we select, 24 of them every year. instead of giving tips. And so through the tap room and through the work that our team is doing right on the ground, we have raised over $340,000 last year and giving check to local nonprofit that varies between $8,000 to $20,000. And that is going back right into the community, right into helping support Vermont nonprofits to build healthy and vibrant communities. And that's what we care about.

[00:20:19] Justin Kendall: That's incredible work.

[00:20:21] Boston Beer: I think, yeah.

[00:20:22] Justin Kendall: And it's not easy to do when, you know, business gets tougher out there. But it's a commitment that you all have made to these nonprofits and the community. And so I think that there's probably a return on investment that isn't visible, but is tangible that you get back from this. I mean, obviously doing good, but there's a connection there that you form with the community through these.

[00:20:47] Boston Beer: Yeah, for sure. It's our neighbors, you know, that we want to make sure that when they think of Lawsons, they know that we're here to support them. The more successful the business is, the more we can give. And that creates, I would say, brand loyalty and fan for life. And now what we want to make sure we do is tell that story to our fans that are not in Vermont, that, you know, enjoy our products And Boston, in Philadelphia, in the Southeast and say, hey, you know us for the beer, but we want you to know us for what we do in the community in Vermont. And we're trying also to push this program throughout all the states that we're doing. We created last year a Cosmic Shift, which is a beer that we launch in all our states. And we donated a portion of the proceeds. Our distributor also pitched in to donate a portion of their proceeds to local nonprofits in every single of the states we Baker Distributing.

[00:21:44] Justin Kendall: That's fantastic. Thank you. So you're going on year three. Year three as CEO.

[00:21:49] Boston Beer: I'm still there.

[00:21:51] Justin Kendall: Well, you're still there.

[00:21:51] Boston Beer: Loving it.

[00:21:52] Justin Kendall: Obviously. But tell me how you're feeling about the business now. Because I mean, now you probably feel like after a year you got your sea legs maybe. So now in year three, going into year three, how are you feeling about the business and craft at this point?

[00:22:09] Boston Beer: I'm so glad I'm joining the industry. You know, going from cheese to beer, specialty cheese to craft beer, there's so much similarities. And it starts with, it's about the products. You know, for us it's the finest and freshest always kept cold. It's making sure that we live up to the standard that, you know, are founding brewers made. And it's also telling the story in an authentic way. So whether it's cheese, specialty cheese or craft beer, there is a lot of similarity in how we want to show up. Three years in, the first year was learn, ask a lot of questions, be like a deer in the headlight. I think the first time you and I met, I was not even on the seats. And so the first year was learning. The second year is like, OK, the industry is changing. We are in a contracting market, how are we going to play differently? And year three is like now we have put this strategy to stay focused, to lean on our story, to continue to commit to obviously the quality of our product and it's working. We're excited to have a year of continuous growth. We call it sustainable growth. We have spent a lot of time focusing on our core portfolio, which a lot of other brands are doing, and I think it's the right move, and really rethink how we approach innovation. taking basically all last year to think about there is what we want to brew, but we also got to be mindful of what the consumer trends are telling us and what's that magic portfolio that we need to work on in the coming years that is unable to last.

[00:23:49] Justin Kendall: How do you strike that balance? Because when I think about Lawsons, I think about great IPAs. I think about loggers. But when you're thinking about what the consumer is after right now and how you strike the balance of being authentically Lawsons, how do you do that?

[00:24:07] Boston Beer: Yeah, that's an ongoing conversation. Like, what makes a Lawson's Finest beer a Lawson's Finest beer? And how do we define that? For us, for example, we spend quite an amount of time to define what is a Sunshine brand for us. We have Sip of Sunshine, we have Little Sip, we launched 18 months ago Epic Sip, which is our 19 to 9.5%.

[00:24:30] Justin Kendall: I'm melting in my chair.

[00:24:32] Boston Beer: Yeah, I know, I know. This is not a breakfast beer. And really for us, it's like IPAs, clear IPAs using citra hops and with a very bold flavor profile. And so the more conversation we have of those, like defining who we are, the more, I would say, clearer we are moving forward. What's on brand, what's off brand. And we're not trend chaser. We innovate, but with a type of liquid and also business practices. We don't need to be the first to market. What we need is to make sure we stay on brand. And it's through, yeah, it's through continue to incubate new beer with our brewers. They pilot beer every week. And then it's testing it in the taproom to see what's the response from our locals, from our Vermont fans. And then if it has legs and we think this can be a winning proposition, then we move those brews to our limited release that we launch. We launch about six of them every year. And if it's successful, then that could be a permanent, the following year, brand, all state, all distribution.

[00:25:43] Justin Kendall: You recently launched Hopwired, hazy IPA, 6.8% ABV. Tell me about the thought and strategy behind launching that and where that fits in the portfolio.

[00:25:56] Boston Beer: So, Hazy IPA, I mean, as a 90% IPA brand, we felt like playing in the Hazy category was a must for us. And we launched a couple years ago a brand called Hazy Ray, and we learned a lot from it. We learned that we have the right to play. Our fans are looking for a Hazy IPA from us. But with Hazy Ray, we didn't have the right liquid. And we learned from it. And I always say, you know, you got to learn from your failures as well. And then we went back to the drawing boards to really understand what our fans expect from us from a Hazy IPA standpoint. And then we went back and worked with our brewer. to create that liquid, not just what we want to drink, but really what our fans are expecting from us. And we launched then our Hopwire last summer in Vermont only. We're like, we're going to take six months to really figure out, is this the liquid that is going to meet the expectation of our fans? And the locals are the most critical ones for us. And it did really well. And then we're like, OK, now let's roll it out. All states, it's happening this month and we have proven that it's a great product and it's meeting the demand from our fans.

[00:27:11] Justin Kendall: You've made a big shift in distribution over the last year. You've signed with Baker for the state. I know that that's accelerated business for you all. Talk to me a little bit about that move and how that just changed the trajectory for the company.

[00:27:26] Boston Beer: For sure. So we had to get into self-distribution in Vermont. because when Sean Lawson Baker Distributing his beer, it's gotta be kept gold. It's our number one priority as a brewer. And there was not coal supply chain distribution in the beer distributorship. So he's like, okay, I'm gonna create my own distribution company. and the beer guy, and we've run this business for many, many years. And it was doing fine until another partner that we were working with, the Vermont Beer Shepherd, approached us and said, it's time for us to retire. We have a partner with Baker Distributing. They are interested in acquiring Lawson's Finest Liquids brand rights. And we're like, well, Maybe this is the opportunity for us to get out of the self-distribution business and go back and focus on what we're in business with, which is create amazing liquid and also give our fans incredible experiences in our taproom. And so we made that shift. It was a big decision for us because we had 19 members. We had built an entire business over the years, but we picked the right partner. And a year into it, now we're seeing incredible growth in our home state. which we thought we were saturated. After 18 years servicing Vermont, we were not expecting to see that much growth coming out of it.

[00:28:52] Justin Kendall: How does that service level change?

[00:28:55] Boston Beer: In the positive way, when you think about we had one merchandiser with our own self-distribution business, and now we have 40 people.

[00:29:03] American Cider: Whoa.

[00:29:04] Boston Beer: Yeah. Throughout Vermont, like servicing the shelf. And so the service has increased because there is a lot more brand ambassador that care about the products that, you know, check in with the retailers and our partner.

[00:29:20] Justin Kendall: It feels like that gives the core business a lot more focus on the main thing versus this other side business. I mean, we've seen so many self-distributing brewers pull back from that and, you know, sell their rights. And a lot of them just couldn't make it work. And so it's interesting to get the perspective of having the beer guy, you know, and then the changes in the state and the opportunity.

[00:29:48] Boston Beer: Yeah. I mean, I think it's reflecting of what's happening in the industry right now is there is a lot of change and we can let those change guide our decision or we can be ahead of it. And I would say two years ago, that's something we would have never considered doing. But the opportunity came, it was the right time, with the right partnership, and we decided, you know, we really need to lead change for us in order to continue to thrive. And that benefited our customer in Vermont, our beer, our fans, now they get precious beer, and chefs that are stuck all the time.

[00:30:25] Justin Kendall: So year three focuses on core. It's on driving Hop Wired this home state. What else is going to drive growth for you this year?

[00:30:35] Boston Beer: So the core, SEP and LittleSEP are doing really well. We're seeing double-digit growth, and that's through core markets, core product, core consumer. So that was an important foundation for us to reestablish before we build on innovation or state expansion. So continue to, for this year, continue to drive with the core growth, launch Hopwire in all markets, and really focus on that brand and the support that it needs. And then more news coming up this summer with added innovation that we're very excited.

[00:31:08] Justin Kendall: You're going to drop hands? No?

[00:31:12] Boston Beer: No, but I will talk to you this summer.

[00:31:17] Justin Kendall: Always a pleasure. Thanks for doing this. Very good to see you. And I'm very glad that you're enjoying being in the industry. And now you're going to crush it.

[00:31:25] Boston Beer: Thank you. And I speak on behalf of an incredible team, and I want to make sure I mention that. So it's about the product. It's about the purpose, which we spoke about with our impact report coming up. And it's really about the people. And when I reflect on how incredible the craft beer industry is, it's about the community that we're a part of. And also, for us, the success is because we have an incredible team at Lawson's Finest Liquids.

[00:31:49] Justin Kendall: Well, thanks for doing this.

[00:31:51] Boston Beer: Thank you, Justin.

[00:31:54] Bump Williams: Welcome back to the Brewbound Podcast on location studio here on the trade show floor at Brew Expo America, part of the Craft Brewers Conference. It is Brewbound Managing Editor and podcast co-host Jessica Infante. And I am psyched to be here with our next guest, one of my favorites, Rheingeis Brewing CEO, Adam Bankovich. Adam, how you doing?

[00:32:13] Adeline Druart: Fantastic. Thanks for having me.

[00:32:15] Bump Williams: Oh, thanks for joining us.

[00:32:15] Adeline Druart: Good to see you in person instead of virtually.

[00:32:17] Bump Williams: I know, I know. It's such a lovely change. Well, you guys have had a year. So and you've got a big one coming up. So I don't know where you want to start. I don't. Let's start with GhostNA. Sure.

[00:32:28] Adeline Druart: Easy.

[00:32:29] Bump Williams: Because we learned about GhostNA this time last year at CBC. Where were we? Indianapolis?

[00:32:36] Adeline Druart: Indianapolis.

[00:32:37] Bump Williams: Okay. I'm going to do my weird thing where I always ask everyone how they get there. How did you get there?

[00:32:41] Adeline Druart: I drove there.

[00:32:42] Bump Williams: You drove there because it's like two hours, right?

[00:32:43] Adeline Druart: Super easy. We drove a lot of people there.

[00:32:45] Bump Williams: Wow. I mean, that's great. So how many people did you bring last year?

[00:32:48] Adeline Druart: A lot more than this year. Yeah. Over a dozen, maybe. Wow. Maybe a baker's dozen.

[00:32:53] Bump Williams: What a fun little Cincy Road trip.

[00:32:55] Adeline Druart: Yeah, it was great. But we've got eight here this year. We flew to answer that question. Thank you. Thank you. Happy to be here.

[00:33:01] Bump Williams: I don't know why I'm always curious about that, but I am. So, GoSene. How's it doing?

[00:33:07] Adeline Druart: Great. Really happy with the Brad Avery positive feedback in the market from retailers. Everybody loves it. We'll have another flavor coming out later this year. Exciting. So Ghost Hops will join the Ghost family, which will be a West Coast non-alcoholic IPA.

[00:33:21] Bump Williams: Because what is OG Ghost NI?

[00:33:24] Adeline Druart: Ghost Pills and Ghost Haze launched together. So we launched two at the same time fall last year.

[00:33:29] Bump Williams: And what's the packaging format on this?

[00:33:31] Adeline Druart: Six pack, 12 ounce cans. And that's it. There's some really cool technology coming out where SPT is trialing draft. So maybe we get some draft trials of that. We're not sure yet, but the stuff they're doing, the science is remarkable.

[00:33:44] Bump Williams: It's there. Thoughts on a variety pack when you have the three?

[00:33:48] Adeline Druart: We have thoughts. We don't have anything in development yet, but we're absolutely talking about it.

[00:33:52] Bump Williams: And are you guys doing this DTC at all?

[00:33:54] Adeline Druart: A little bit. It's available. We're not investing a lot, advertising the DTC component of it, but it's possible. It's hard. It's expensive. You're as heavy as we all like to talk about. So it's available, but we're not leaning into the DTC that strongly.

[00:34:10] Bump Williams: What have you learned in the past year?

[00:34:12] Adeline Druart: Quality really matters. There is an abundance of choice in the non-alcoholic space. Domestic styles, import styles, craft styles. We knew that going in, I think our expectations were set appropriately for the Ghost series. We knew that people were finding that occasion from other brands. We just wanted to make sure that they had an offering from Rhinegeist if they were looking for a non-alcoholic occasion.

[00:34:30] Bump Williams: How is it playing in the home market?

[00:34:31] Adeline Druart: Great adoption. For me, it was really fun to see the on-prem adoption really quickly. So it's great to go out and see concerts, sporting events, bars, restaurants that it's one of, if not the NA of choice in the home market.

[00:34:45] Bump Williams: Congrats. Exciting. Well, another thing I know that's been a huge undertaking for you guys lately has been you're playing in THC. And unfortunately for you, your fine state has been a bit of a hotbed for legislative wrangling. What's that been like?

[00:35:03] Adeline Druart: Challenging, educational, crash course in how government works.

[00:35:09] Bump Williams: You sound like you could run for office.

[00:35:11] Adeline Druart: I have zero interest in that. Thank you very much. I appreciate that. If it is a compliment, it's been a lot of work. It has been work worth doing, and I'm very optimistic that we can make something happen. I just don't know on what timeline.

[00:35:25] Bump Williams: Awesome. And tell me about the product line.

[00:35:27] Adeline Druart: Fuzzy Bones? Yes. Rhinegeist inspired, obviously with the skull drop front and center. We know that the consumer's there for these products. We know that they trust Rhinegeist for consistency and quality. So we led with the skull drop logo on the packaging. Launched with five milligrams, and then we have 10 milligrams for states that are not in Ohio. Five milligrams would have been the cap in Ohio if SB56 was passed as fully written. Instead, the line item veto struck all of it in Ohio. Nonetheless, 5mg is still working for us, and then 10mg is working in the states that allow for 10mg sales.

[00:36:01] Bump Williams: Where are you producing it in the other states?

[00:36:03] Adeline Druart: So we never produce it ourselves. We've got a great contract manufacturing partner that we've used for it. Cool. We know what it would take to do it ourselves if it ever scales to that point. But until we get it to scale, it makes more sense to work with a co-backer.

[00:36:15] Bump Williams: Yeah, that does make a lot of sense. It's a really interesting segment that's developed in the past few years to me. And I'm going to be perfectly honest with you, I paid almost no attention to it in the beginning because it just seemed too complicated. And like I was telling you, I forced myself to write a story about it last year, and now I feel like I kind of understand it. But it's kind of wild how this just popped up overnight. To me, it seemed like overnight. I'm sure that's not really the case, but.

[00:36:41] Adeline Druart: We studied for a long time. You're not wrong at all. It's super complicated. The consumer knows what it is. They understand it. They're very confused if it's from marijuana, from hemp, because to the consumer, THC is THC is THC. Absolutely, there's nuance on how it's sourced and where it's derived from. But the industry at large has a lot of work to do so that the consumer understands it and then all the regulation behind it. being so specific on what the source of THC is makes things very, very difficult to follow.

[00:37:09] Bump Williams: But you guys are feeling good about the product and its future.

[00:37:11] Adeline Druart: We love the product. We're in six states now looking to launch three more states in the near future. Obviously, we're following the federal ruling and if it's going to still exist past November or not. So we're just trying to stay nimble with it, make it available, sell as much as we can because people are responding really positively to it. But we need to be cautious of pending legislation.

[00:37:31] Bump Williams: God, that's like living in limbo for

[00:37:35] Adeline Druart: forever. It is a lot of us just talk about what it must have been like going through prohibition. Yeah. And my take on all that is absolutely everybody should learn from the past. I wish that our government officials could learn enough from the past to act quickly, because like you said, this industry developed so quickly, seemingly out of nowhere. We have this really unique chance to not fall into the trap of prohibition and instead write proper regulation now in real time as the consumer wants these products instead of just prohibiting them for years and years and years or however long it takes to figure it out.

[00:38:05] Bump Williams: Well, before we actually started recording, you and I were chatting a little bit about the keynote address we just heard here at CBC from Will Godara, who is I don't even really know how to explain him. He's like a hospitality guru, but he also was an owner of 11 Madison Park. He told us the whole story of that restaurant. My cousin actually staged there.

[00:38:25] Adeline Druart: Oh, awesome.

[00:38:25] Bump Williams: But you have seen him speak before.

[00:38:27] Adeline Druart: I have.

[00:38:28] Bump Williams: And what have been your takeaways? Because I think having seen him talk to craft brewers and then talk to not craft brewers, but also being in the business of hospitality yourself, I know you were able to learn things. So what are your takeaways?

[00:38:41] Adeline Druart: I have. I'm glad that he was here and invited. I was excited when I saw him as the keynote. The first time I saw him speak was just to a room full of business leaders and then to the room here today with Kraft Breweries. I think there's a lot of takeaways that everybody should listen. And a lot of the examples that we heard in the room today are very exceptional examples of what he did in his career. And I think the thing, especially because I've heard some of those examples before, or maybe you've read them in his book, Clearly we can't do all of those things literally, but there's a lot of inspiration, a lot of lessons, a lot of guidance for leaders. And it really stresses the importance of hospitality and the impact that that has on our brands and how our brands extend beyond the beer that appears on shelf or on tap. And it starts with a hospitality experience. So it's my second time hearing it and I still have new takeaways, even from hearing him speak a year, a year and a half ago.

[00:39:30] Bump Williams: And how have you put some of those lessons into play at Rhinegeist?

[00:39:35] Adeline Druart: I think I know the example you're talking about. So he gave the great example of the couple who had the wedding that didn't really go as planned. So I had just seen him speak the first time and he shared that same story. I think it's also in his book. And sure enough, a few months later, I found myself in the taproom on a Thursday and there were a lot of people dressed very formally, which is not what people usually wear to our taproom. So we found out that their wedding had been ruined. It was supposed to be in Florida. A hurricane ruined it. And so I just initiated getting the staff rallied around it to find out what the song was that they were supposed to dance to. The mother of the bride needed some extra calming down and hugs, maybe. And we gave them as creative an experience as we could in that moment. And I'm literally just stealing directly from Will's example that he gave in the speech. What was cool for me to see was some of our staff initially didn't think there was anything we could do for that couple in that moment when actually there was. So we found a lot of really small, easy, simple, low-cost ways to make it special for them. The thing that I think is most important about Will's speech is those situations are unique. We need to find the opportunities that we can systemize that happen daily and routinely and find ways to make those things special because there's few and far between when you find situations like that.

[00:40:46] Bump Williams: So that's a really big example of helping people have something of the wedding they thought they were going to have. How else can your team do this on smaller levels? What's a fun way to surprise and delight your consumer on the daily?

[00:40:59] Adeline Druart: For me, it's what Will started talking about. It's identifying all the touch points with the customer and finding any way you can make it different or unique or special or just make it specific to your own brand so that there's something memorable about coming to our taproom versus all the other taprooms out there. And it doesn't mean that we need to do it better than someone else. We just need to do it differently in a way that's authentic to ourselves.

[00:41:19] Bump Williams: Now, I actually, unfortunately, have never been to your taproom, but I've seen pictures. I know, I know. And I've been to Cincinnati a bunch. I'm really sorry. But it does look like you could probably have a wedding in there and have a really good time.

[00:41:30] Adeline Druart: Matter of fact, we do.

[00:41:32] Bump Williams: Look at that.

[00:41:33] Adeline Druart: In addition to the pictures you've probably seen, we also have four different private event spaces. And they're beautiful and unique and different. So we can host weddings for 250 people in our primary event space. And they're gorgeous. The team does a phenomenal job executing them. And we love hosting weddings.

[00:41:49] Bump Williams: And how often do you do that?

[00:41:51] Adeline Druart: As often as possible, I'd say probably 60 to 75 percent of the Saturdays we have booked with weddings.

[00:41:58] Bump Williams: Shut the front door. That's nuts.

[00:42:01] Adeline Druart: Yeah, we love hosting weddings. We do a bunch of other events as well, corporate parties or school fundraisers or whatever you want. But the room, I'll show you pictures, the room looks amazing when we execute weddings and the clubhouse is the name of our signature space.

[00:42:13] Bump Williams: That was so cool. I mean, like we were just talking about Thursdays, my husband and I's our 10th wedding anniversary. So I think maybe we need to do a Vow Renewal party and I think it should be at Rungust.

[00:42:22] Adeline Druart: We, I agree. We would love to have you and host you. I was about to give away an idea that would keep kicking around, but until we perfect it, I don't want to give it away yet.

[00:42:30] Bump Williams: All right. All right. I look forward to hearing it once it's fully baked. Well, we haven't actually really talked much about your core traditional beer portfolio. What's going on?

[00:42:39] Adeline Druart: It's up. We're happy. Yeah, that's crazy. I know. Congrats. Thank you. The last four weeks, I think three and a half percent total U.S. XAOC convenience in liquor. So we're happy to see growth. It seems like the industry is starting to see screen shoots as well. So hopefully we're all here celebrating that. We've got a lot backloaded into the back half of the year. So the core business that's up right now is predominantly beer. Fuzzy Bones isn't factoring a ton into that right now with Ohio coming offline. So we launched Truthadelic Imperial Hazy IPA this year and Housecat American Pills. So those are helping a little bit. But honestly, the core Truth family and the core ScintiLite family are both up as well. So we're really, really happy with those being the Workforce 2 brand families in the portfolio. and then might as well just roll into fun stuff coming later this year, right? So maybe blessing in disguise with Fuzzy Bones going away in Ohio, we need to pull other things from commercial beer plan that we were saving for other years forward to make up for the lack of intoxicating hemp beverages in Ohio. So we're going to launch Half Truth session version of Truth IPA here in just a couple of weeks. Everybody out there that's listening, yes, we've gotten your feedback. That's the number one recommended name for a Truthline extension for many, many years. We agree. We've just been waiting for the right moment. So it's going to be launching here in a couple of weeks. The recipe is delicious. What's the ABV on that? I knew you were going to ask that. I'm pretty certain it's 4.7. The pilot was 4.5. I think we went to 4.7. It might be 4.8. But it's north of 4.5 and below 5.0.

[00:44:08] Bump Williams: Oh, awesome. Dude, I'm such an old lady now that like if it's under five, it's for me. Like that's kind of my rule.

[00:44:14] Adeline Druart: So I'm right there with you.

[00:44:15] Bump Williams: I'm glad to hear you're doing that.

[00:44:17] Adeline Druart: So that we're really excited to launch that. We'll have an LTO in the Cincy Light family coming out just on the heels of that for summer. So that's Watermelon and Sea Salt.

[00:44:25] Bump Williams: Get out of town.

[00:44:26] Adeline Druart: It's ridiculously refreshing and drinkable. Four point two percent. So another reason to come visit Cincinnati.

[00:44:32] Bump Williams: Yes. Will you ship to Massachusetts?

[00:44:34] Adeline Druart: If you ask nicely, we can try and make that happen. And then the really bigger thing that we're launching that we really haven't talked to anybody about yet is acknowledging this reality that we learned with Sinti Lite, which there's a lot of consumers drinking different types of alcoholic beverages that just aren't participating in Rhinegeist. And we got new consumers, certainly with Sinti Lite. So from here, we're going to line extend that family into a whole new beverage type altogether. So we're going to launch a Sinti Vodka Soda.

[00:45:01] Bump Williams: Am I getting a scoop?

[00:45:02] Adeline Druart: Yeah, you are.

[00:45:04] Bump Williams: Surprise. That's exciting. Tell me more. What are the flavors?

[00:45:08] Adeline Druart: Flavors are black cherry, pineapple and peach. So we'll have two single flavor four packs. And then the pineapple is LTO or I guess not LTO, but the variety pack will launch with pineapple in it. So two four packs in the variety A pack. It's going to be out I want to say early August, maybe late July. So this is new territory for us. We've never done anything with spirits, Cincy Vodka soda. Really, really excited. Even the name is not final, final. I have a meeting tomorrow to review final name recommendations and final packaging design.

[00:45:39] Bump Williams: Can I suggest the Jess Vodka Soda?

[00:45:42] Adeline Druart: I will heavily consider it. If you come to Cincinnati.

[00:45:47] Bump Williams: I'm there.

[00:45:48] Adeline Druart: So we're really excited. There's no reason for us to not participate in this category. The industry talks about it a lot, and this felt like the natural, great way for us to start participating with the Vodka Soda brand.

[00:46:00] Bump Williams: Yeah, no, that sounds great. Full footprint?

[00:46:02] Adeline Druart: We'll start with the greater tri-state area and see how far we can stretch it.

[00:46:06] Bump Williams: What's your Ohio, Kentucky, Indiana?

[00:46:09] Adeline Druart: Yeah, that'd be it.

[00:46:10] SPEAKER_??: Yeah.

[00:46:10] Bump Williams: Look at that. Look at me, I know things. Geography. No, I'm really excited to hear that you guys are doing that because I feel like, I think we've all gotten over this, but I feel as though for a while, a lot of craft brewers were saying, oh, but no, we make craft beer, which, yeah, fair. I get it. You love it. You're passionate. You're dedicated. But sometimes when the consumer is telling you something, sometimes it helps to listen.

[00:46:32] Adeline Druart: 100%. We learned a lot of that with Scentsy Lite. It's a domestic light beer. And it's delicious. And it's delicious. And it works well in the portfolio. Our team loves making it. The team loves selling it. Everything works for it. And it's really authentic to us and who we are. So this is just one natural extension of that.

[00:46:48] Bump Williams: Does that still have an NIL partnership?

[00:46:50] Adeline Druart: Yeah, with Scentsy Reins.

[00:46:51] Bump Williams: Cool. I'm excited to see all these products.

[00:46:54] Adeline Druart: Me too. They're all coming out rapid fire later this year.

[00:46:57] Bump Williams: Yeah. How tired are you?

[00:46:58] Adeline Druart: Not at all. Do I look tired?

[00:46:59] Bump Williams: No, but I would be.

[00:47:02] Adeline Druart: Just keep it on the treadmill.

[00:47:05] Bump Williams: Well, Adam, this has been awesome. Thank you so much for joining. I know you're busy, so we appreciate you taking the time to sit down and chat.

[00:47:10] Adeline Druart: Yeah, great talking to you. Thanks. Thank you.

[00:47:14] Bump Williams: And that's our show for this week. Thank you for listening. The Brewbound Podcast is a production of BevNET CPG. Our audio engineer for the Brewbound Podcast is Joe Cratchy. Our technical director is Joshua Pratt and our video editor is Ryan Galang. Our social marketing manager is Amanda Smerlinski. Our designer is Amanda Huang. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with your colleagues and friends and review us on your listening platform of choice. You can find our work at Brewbound.com. And we also welcome feedback and suggestions at podcast at Brewbound.com. On behalf of the entire Brewbound Podcast team, thank you for listening. We'll be back next week.