Brewbound Live Winter 2023: Livestream Lounge

Speaker 1 [00:11] Hey there. It's Brewbound managing editor Jess Infante, and I am so excited for this next conversation with 2023 Brewbound rising stars, Benny Ashburn and Teo Hunter, the co-founders of California's own Crowns and Hops. Benny, Teo, welcome. Thanks for joining us. How are you guys? crow.

Brew Bund [00:33] Hi, we're always excited to talk to you guys again. This is Brew Bund and Pitch Slam was like the Oscars for us, so this is always like the most exciting conversation we can have. He and I literally had an acceptance speech. It was like only like 5 people left in the conference, and we like got to wrap it up. What's up? We looked at each other like, no, it's us. Oh my God, I wanna thank my mama. I wanna thank my daddy.

Speaker 1 [01:00] It was you. I love how you guys are just negating the whole script that I just typed out because I was gonna say this one is very special for me because you were the winners of the Brewbound pitch slam in 2019, which is the first year that I joined the team, so it was my first brewbound Live too. We have come a long way since then. Uh, we've made it through a pandemic. The craft beer industry is doing some wild things, but, but you guys are stronger than ever, and we're so happy to be honoring you as rising stars this year. So, you know, for people who might not know, and that should be a very small amount of people these days, can you tell us a little bit about what Crowns and Hops is all about?

Brew Bund [01:38] Word. Crownston Knobs Brewing Company, um, preserving culture, uh, expanding the palate through world-class craft beer and building community. Um, that has always been our mission from 2019 when we, um, were, were so, uh, incredibly humbled to, uh, win that pitch slam. Um, it was, it was really a moment of confirmation, um, from the industry that I don't think we ever really experienced before, um, to actually, um, set ourselves up and, and rather to present ourselves to the industry, um, and to be confirmed was, was a pretty awesome experience. Uh, but Benny and I are just really focused on bringing diversity and inclusion, and more importantly, racial. Equity, um, accomplishing racial equity in the craft beer industry because ultimately we believe that, um, if we accomplish racial equity or if we actually focus on it, it ultimately is better for a goal for economic success for our entire industry. And that's one of the things that Benny and I have been yelling from the rooftops, specifically to our fellow brewers, um, and breweries rather, is that, um, seeing Crowns and Hops succeed. is almost a barometer for how we measure the health of our entire industry. Um, so, um, we're excited to, to really continue moving forward with our plans, um, in brewing and, and creating a space in Inglewood, California.

Speaker 1 [03:11] I mean, you won the 2019 pitch lane because frankly you deserved it, you know, your, your beer was on point, your message was so important, and both of those things have only gotten stronger since then, so. Tell me a little bit about uh atrial pills. I know that's something that's really important to you guys, and it's, to me, it's, it's proof positive that you're actually putting your actions where your words are.

Brew Bund [03:35] Yeah, um, in 2020, um, at, you know, the height of COVID and, and the murder of George Floyd, we, we really kind of looked at what was happening inside the industry, you know, a lot of businesses were closing and, and particularly there were a few black-owned breweries that were closing and With there being less than 1%, we can't afford to lose a single black-owned brewery in the industry. So, you know, uh, we kind of put our heads together to identify how can we Create opportunities to help other black-owned, uh, beer brands, especially when we know how hard it is, you know, like right now, we're, we're still in the middle of a, a capital raise, and I, I think as an entrepreneur, you're never not Raising, but the opportunities opportunities, the accessibility to black-owned beer brands isn't as available, I think, uh, as, as to maybe some others. So Arill Initiative is our nonprofit that focuses, uh, again on driving more racial equity inside of, of the craft beer industry. Um, we have two really important pillars inside of it. We have our, um, 8 trill. Uh, collaborative collaboration series where we partner with other craft beer, larger craft beer brands, uh, to produce beer and the funds. From that beer and all of the funds or a portion of the funds goes into our fund that we award to other black-owned craft beer brands. Um, some of the collaborations we've done, especially the top of last year, we did a really, uh, amazing collaboration with Allagash. Um, we've done one with LA Ale Works, Tia who am I, uh, there's so many, we've, we've been blessed. Other have, um, yeah, uh, smaller breweries like Trademark, uh, Henhouse Brewing Company in Santa Rosa. Um, and, and I think what we've done in doing so, um, we set a precedent for what it means to collaborate with other black owned breweries through the Atrial Initiative, um, and stating the objective which is we want to build this. One that inherently um improves the health and the well-being of current Black-owned breweries, but also creates a pathway and opportunity and or resources for Black-owned breweries and planning, I think is what Benny and I, um, if you look at the whole point, um, we're leading from the front, um, you know, and that's something that I don't think we saw a lot of, um, when we came up with the ARL Initiative in 2020. Um, we, we, we were Incredibly inspired by a document published by the WK Kellogg Foundation called A Business Case for Racial Equity, but these documents have been in the world since 2018, you know, and, and probably other documents that gave a pathway, but there was no one really picking up the torch and and leading to the front, and, and I think that's where Benny and I kind of really, you know, Made a, made a an intentional plan to, to show up for our community and our industry.

Speaker 1 [06:44] One thing I love and admire about both of you is you're so good at delivering this message, and I know it can be an uncomfortable conversation to have to say, hey, craft brewers, all of you are white guys, but I think they should know more than anybody that The, the, the best way or the most important way to ensure a successful long-lasting industry is to build one that's inclusive, that's diverse, that makes everybody feel comfortable, because if there's something that we've seen in the past few years of craft beer, it's that not everybody has felt comfortable. I mean, I don't want to say having a seat at the table, it's more like having a seat at the bar, but the only way that everyone is going to survive is if we're able to make To make it, it make it stronger for everybody. So you guys are great at that, and I am very eloquently saying something here, but I think what you've been able to do is really inspire the rest of the industry, and I love that about you. So, I mean, what are you most proud of in 2023?

Brew Bund [07:45] Um, I think even from looking at the current pitch slam, uh, uh, what are recipients, I would say, um, and seeing how absolutely diverse it is from when it was Crowns and House, Benny and Teo in 2019 to today, seeing not just one black-owned, you know, beer brand, but like three or four in the same competition. I mean, that says a lot about how far This industry's come and it's, it's not that they weren't always there, it's just they didn't have an opportunity to be seen or to be acknowledged, and now, The industry is truly acknowledging the power of these brands, the quality of these brands, the storytelling of these brands, um, and we are sitting at the, at the bar, you know, or no longer needing to build our own bar, but we're all sitting there together, and I think that's what's really exciting about, I think what me and Tio have driven inside of the industry. Yeah, and I think um it really comes down to this is, this is a trend that ultimately was something that um was, was forecasted. But like, you know, the, the fact is the country is becoming more diverse. The fact is by 2050, the country is estimated to be majority brown people, period. Like that, that is, that is the trend, it's not going to go backwards. So if that's the case and if that's the trend of the community that we are. Serving as a craft beer business, as a, as a beverage business, then what are we doing to ensure that our industry is reflective of that change and of that inevitable change. Um, so, you know, Benny and I have always really just invited people to be a part of a conversation that we just knew that we know is imminent. And um you know, I think, you know, obviously I'm sure we'll get into it, but with organizations like the MB2A um our own organization, the ARL Initiative, um, the, the, the roadmap is there and I think we invite people to ultimately just dive in and explore information that has already been Um, you know, uh, forecasted by people way smarter than us, you know, all we do is make it relative.

Speaker 1 [10:10] I mean, I don't think we get to where we are right now without the two of you, so thank you so much. Um, but looking ahead to next year, what does 2024 hold for crowns and hops?

Brew Bund [10:19] Everything. We're taking over the world. No, um, 2024. If it goes the way we want it to go, we will be opening our taproom. Finally, it's taking a little bit of time, but they don't tell you is construction permits, uh, take at least a year and a half years longer than you expect them to take, so. Yeah, at least, um, opening our taproom. I mean, really opening our taproom, that's, I think. Our wholesale business is, is doing well, you know, ideally we, we really go deeper into California. Also business is doing awesome. We're almost at. 3000 barrels, like, like we're, we're killing it, but, but having the opportunity to sell direct to consumers and, and create the space that is the physical representation of crowns and hops is, is, is beyond exciting.

Speaker 1 [11:14] You're certainly, you're doing it your own way. The DTC stuff I think is so important because it gives you Uh, I mean, it's in DTC, a direct connection to your consumers, so you can get data. You can see where they are, what they like, what their habits are, and that's really powerful stuff for you then to bring to a wholesaler, to a retailer. Like you can say, hey, we know all these things. Yeah, exactly. Say it louder, Jess. Something I saw on your website that I loved was the your Oktoberfest box. Uh, like the, the combo of Oktoberfest and HBCU Homecoming. To me that really encapsulates your essence. It's everything. It's traditional beer stuff. It's the, like the rich homecoming tradition, rich homecoming cultures and traditions of HBCUs, and you put it all together in one box. How did that go and what was the, what was the thinking behind it?

Brew Bund [12:05] Um, well, both, you know, me and Tia both went to HBCUs. Uh, Tia went to Howard. I went to Spelman. And, um, you know, we, we straddle a really beautiful line of culture and like traditional craft beer, right? And there are very few brands that can do, do that in the way, authentically the way in which Tio and I do it. So You know, we looked at what HBCU means, homecoming, the season of homecoming, and what Dopetoberfest, or excuse me, Oktoberfest, which is we call Dopetoberfest, represents to the community. And we, we saw so many similarities. It's celebration, it's family, it's connection, it's, it's coming together. Yeah, yeah, it's coming together and we realized, well, let's really bring it together. Let's shine a light on The beauty of HBCUs and what that means and homecoming and celebration. And then let's take Oktoberfest, this very traditional German holiday and make it our own because, you know, that doesn't really speak to us. We, we don't celebrate Oktoberfest the way you might in Germany, but we sure as hell celebrate Oktoberfest. You know, so.

Speaker 1 [13:23] I love it. I'm, I, it's perfect that that is crowns and hops like in a nutshell, so. Benny TO, you two, I love talking to you. I'm so happy that we can honor you like this this year and just congratulations. We're so, so happy for all of your success. It really, it means a lot to us.

Brew Bund [13:42] It means a lot to us to see Brewbound really be a part of progress and change as well. Um, it almost goes without saying, I, I just have to echo what Benny said, to see the pitch slam, to, to become more diverse and more inclusive, just really, I think allows for Um, the, the, the black brewing, brewing community, the Asian, Latin, all these communities to see, we, we also have an opportunity on this platform to show and tell our story, um, that may be different than what you've heard for generations, and it's, it's that type of change that our industry absolutely needs in order to be as competitive, um, and as successful as it, it, it, it can potentially be.

Speaker 3 [14:26] Let's meet our next rising star, Big Grove Brewery from Ceylon, Iowa. Joining me now is co-founder and CEO Matthew Swift and director of Industry and Public Relations, Janelle Buxton. Thanks for being here, Matthew and Janelle, and congratulations.

Speaker 4 [14:42] Thank you.

Speaker 3 [14:43] Yeah, thanks a lot. Super exciting, uh, kind of shocked and, and, uh, yeah, excited to talk today. Thank you. Well, Matt, Big Grove is a brand that was built to more than 20,000 barrels in just one state, and that presents a lot of opportunities, but I imagine there's a lot of challenges with that. So, what's it like to go that deep in just one state? Uh, well, yeah, yeah, the, the, the inch wide mile deep strategy, uh, that's been our, our plan for a long time and it's, it's worked out really well. Um I'd say it's, it's a little bit more methodical, you know, we, we took our time to do it. We've been doing this for over 10 years, uh, and we started distributing product heavily in 18, so it's been a long, it's been a long haul, but, uh, you know, just always trying to keep our eye on the ball, which includes, you know, great products. And the right people and trying to make it, just make it special and stand out. And I think that we just got a great team that supported it and we're very fortunate and I'm, I'm just super proud of everybody. With that, do you plan to or do you foresee going out of state anytime soon? Yeah, you know, that's the million dollar question. We've been debating a lot about do we go out this side of the state or not, and I think we're leaning towards a yes, but very, very slow and very steady growth, and we're we're excited about it. We're looking at Omaha market really hard right now, and we're excited about that and we're working towards, uh, you know, the different layers that that could present, which would be, do you put a taproom in? Who do you hire for distributor, how are you going to handle it, and I think there's still layers that start stacking up and we want to make sure we make great decisions and. We don't want to be a drop and drop and die, you know, I think we want to be the same philosophy, but just in maybe a different state, which is pretty wild and um coming in with heavy questions, I like it. Is that a 2024 option then? Yeah, 2024 we're looking at being in the market, uh, Q1, late Q1 potentially, but again, that's, uh, that's kind of hot off the press. There you go. Janelle, what do you see as the opportunity with adding an extra state?

Speaker 4 [16:56] Oh, I think it's an exciting opportunity for sure. Obviously just distribution. But then also the ability to join another great beer community. I had the opportunity to live in, live in Nebraska, live in Omaha for a year, as a matter of fact. So overall I think one of the things that makes Big Grove really unique, well three things actually. One is taproom experience, second is the commitment to quality that this organization has is really what the craft beer industry needs. Right now, and then third is the community engagement, so giving back and really making sure that as Matt alluded to, you know, being a mile, uh, a mile deep, um, in our communities that, that we operate in, um, it's not an intention just to go into, um, another space for distribution. It's the intention to go in and create experiences for craft beer drinkers to be able to, um. Support nonprofits for things that we believe in trees, trails, and water, equity and inclusion, our backyard. So it's an exciting opportunity just to be able to engage in a different way that isn't just straight shipping our beer out with no real intention of being involved in the communities.

Speaker 3 [18:14] You're in the process of more than doubling your production. How's that project coming along? Yeah, it's, it's coming fast and furious right now. We've kind of entered the everything's inside and closed in, and it feels great. So all the tanks are inside, all the equipment's inside. Now it becomes. Installation of that equipment, it's going to give us a tremendous amount of firepower. We've always been chasing capacity, so we've never had enough beer, and this will actually give us enough beer. So it's a 50 barrel 4 vessel system with 250 barrel fermenters coming from a 60 barrel, 30 by 60. So it's a pretty big upgrade for us, um, and I think the technology side's going to be a lot deeper too, so we're thrilled, uh, looking to have it online by the end of the year. And start pushing beer through around then and hope maybe it'll just be water and then some beer, but it's an exciting project. It's on the south side of Iowa City and it's about 42,000 square feet and have the ability to pump out 70,000 barrels of beer just out of that facility. And then we also have our main facility that we operate out of now which is on our taproom, and that one's going to peak out at about 30. So a lot of that distribution and production will move over to the new, the hop lot, that's what we're calling it, and that's uh that's what we're. We're, we're looking forward to and having some space and not having deliveries in our taproom at all hours of the day and just the logistics of that have been really hard. So it's, it's a, it's gonna be great. You've got 3 taprooms throughout Iowa. You've got Salon, you've got Iowa City, and you have, um, Des Moines, which is humongous, and I've visited there. Is there plans to add additional taprooms throughout the state? Yeah, well, we have one project that's about to launch, um, and that's our new taproom in Cedar Rapids, which would be about 25 minutes from our, our original location and about 30-40 minutes from our current facility where we operate out of, and that's, it's right downtown off the kind of right off the river in the center of the whole thing. So it's a beautiful new build that's super unique, super full of character, and the town's excited, we're excited. That's going to be a lager facility, so it's going to focus on all lager production and very, very small though, like a 10 by 20 system, and so we might only be finishing, you know, 345 batches a month there, but really trying to see that, that taproom with that beer. So it's kind of cool. Cedar Raps has got a really deep Czech heritage and so kind of leaning into that, the history and, and, and everything that goes with that is pretty exciting because I don't think we've seen a lot of these lager only breweries. There are a few throughout the country, but. And then going uh open fermentation, the, the whole nine yards. So we're the, the brewery team specifically is really excited about it.

Speaker 4 [21:03] So in regard to coming to Cedar Rapids and Justin, you know I have nothing but love for you, but it's actually pronounced Solan is where Big Grove landed 10 years ago and so we would, we would be ousted if we didn't, if we didn't share. We didn't share that it's stolen, but, um, but Cedar Rapids, I, um, one of the things that I'm really looking forward to within that particular community, um, it's an amazing resilient community. They were actually wiped out a couple of times, one of which was with the floods of 2008, and then most recently the Derecho. Um, and so it's, it's just a really, really unique space, um. And to be able to to bring in something and join the already great beer community there, um, bring in something a little different, bring in, bring in more celebration, more attraction to the town, and, and help them continue to, to rebuild and bring more tourism, um, I think that that beer tourism is an exciting thing for Iowa right now. Um, you know, we're, we're clocking in north of 100 breweries here in this state and so we just came off of our IBest, our annual education. Conference in the state and you know I think there's there's cautious optimism. I think there's a commitment to quality or recommitment to quality and so if we are asking people to come to our state to taste our beers, then we need to stand behind it. And so as Matt alluded to, with Cedar Rapids and having it be a unique lager facility, this is just one more reason, one more tourist attraction to come, and as you mentioned, it's one of unique, I think, 4 brew systems in the United States for this particular setup. So that's, that's just, it's going to be exciting to be able to come and offer something a little different, you know, but all in the umbrella of beer.

Speaker 3 [22:59] I think that one of the unique things about Cedar Rapids is that we're actually anchoring a whole new district. So rather than just being a one-off location, it's anchoring a whole new commercial retail district in the heart of downtown Cedar Rapids. It's super unique. I mean, I don't know that there's a lot of those opportunities in a large metro across the country, so really community defining moment and uh. That's, that's a different, different than what we've done before. We've kind of found the spot, adapted to the, to the, to the building and the and the place, and this is more developing a whole district and a whole new part of the community, which is really cool. Well, this year also Big Grove became the top selling craft brand in the state of Iowa. What do you attribute to driving that growth? Yeah, I would, I mean, my initial response is team, uh, I think that our team is, is so dedicated to the success of Big Grove and our product and our communities that we sell it in that it, it, it, it separates us, and I think a lot of people are, are absolutely all in on those things, but our team is just passionate and they they get after it, and I'm proud of them. I think quality, we stand on our quality, um, but I think that our brand means something to the folks in Iowa. And we're so proud to be a part of that, but I mean, it's been a long journey like I've said, but at the same time, it's felt fast at times and I feel like we're in one of those ramp up times right now.

Speaker 4 [24:25] And just to add to that, I, I also think, you know, I, I joined the organization 3 years ago, so I've just, I've gotten to hear a lot of legend and lore about what Big Grove was starting 10 years ago, and it was really intentional growth, you know, and making sure within Solan first. Spreading the word there, working with accounts, getting them beer, prioritizing our customers, you know, the people that were distributing our beer, and then just keeping that mentality going. And one of the things that they've done exceptionally well before I joined the organization was just creating a brand, you know, as far as beautiful packaging, the popcorn moniker, you know, giving something that people could not only go in and. in a taproom, but then they also felt really proud to be able to wear on a t-shirt or sweatshirt, be able to carry around in a can, you know, and I think that as craft consumers or just consumers in general, oftentimes we buy things that are meaningful to us because we want to then share what's meaningful to us in some of those ways. And so I think, I think Big Grove did a really great job of that. And then also just aligning with some really key parts. partnerships, you know, Ragry, Big Grove gets to be the official brewery of Ragry, and that's, you know, the bike ride across the state right from river to river and so supporting events that are really meaningful to us right here in our state have been some critical wins to get not only growth out of Solan and Iowa City, but then across across the entire state. So those are the kinds of things that I think as It's, and it's also been really, really controlled thoughtful growth too, you know, and so as we look at going out of state, um, it'll be those kinds of, of partnerships and things that we'll want to look for, you know, that makes sense to us and, and our brands.

Speaker 3 [26:23] Well, final question for you both. You mentioned that you're gonna launch Omaha in Q1 of next year, but what, what do you see as maybe some of the biggest growth opportunities for you in 2024? Yeah, great question. I mean, I think Citrus Surfer has just started, you know, we, we, we, we see that brand growing to something that's even bigger than it is today. So I think Citrus Surfer's got a A long runway ahead of it. I think that uh Easy Eddie and Easy Eddie brand extensions, which is uh West Eddie, Royal Eddie, and then we have several different mixed packs that we put out with that beer. It's really all different expressions of hops. So from an IPL to West Coast to whatever really the brewers are excited about that, that, that keeps me excited and I think that that's going to keep growing. Uh, and then I think that, you know, you're going to kind of see where the market wants to go. I think there's going to be a lot of other opportunities. There's certainly going to be different opportunities in beer, but those two products are going to be one of our key focuses right now. And then I would say on the taproom side, I think the consumer is going to become a little bit more picky on where they spend their dollars over the next 12 months and maybe longer, so. If you've got anything you need to brush up on as far as your service, hospitality, experience, food quality, plating, atmosphere, those are the things that we're talking about a lot right now. So we're trying to be Pretty lead on, on our execution. So it's really an execution based time. I think the kind of the rapid growth that we felt, I think that's gonna, you know, continue, but it might have to continue in different places in different ways. And that's why I like having a brand like Surfer, having a new market to look at, those are things that are really exciting for us right now, but I think 24 is going to be great. We just got to really focus and, and we got to nail the things that we do well, the things that we're known for, we have to double down on and we have to be the best at, so. Um, that's something that we're going to work really hard on and, and my whole thing right now is, is be faster and be better. So, it always sounds easy, but it's not that easy, and I, and I'm sure the teams get annoyed at times, but I, I think 24 is about execution and uh That's where a lot of our focus is going to be.

Speaker 4 [28:39] And I would also just add continuing to invite different audiences under the tent, you know, as we have diversified our portfolio a bit to a more sessionable, you know, fruit and wheat, for example, and so thinking about those drinkers that would appreciate, you know, a product like that, making sure that we're talking to diverse audiences, whether it be ethnicity, whether it be race, gender. You know, our taprooms, we talk about how everyone's welcome and we really mean it and so being intentional with some of the different, different groups that we want to make sure we're inviting in or talking to, you know, is a huge, huge growth opportunity for not only our brand but for Kraft in general. And so we always want to make sure that we're providing the. Experiences, the environment, um, the welcomeness, the product mix, um, to, to, to have a broad appeal, you know, not just a really myopic, um, um, craft focus.

Speaker 3 [29:42] Matt and Janelle, thanks for your time and congratulations to you both and your team. Yeah, well, thanks, thanks so much, Justin. Thanks to Brew. Thanks to everybody that just making this amazing. I really, really appreciate it.

Speaker 1 [29:54] I'm Justin Fonte, Brewba managing editor, and I am thrilled to be here with Torch and Crown co-founder and CEO John Danceler. John, what's going on, buddy? How are you?

Speaker 5 [30:05] Quite a bit. Uh, we're doing great. We, we had a real busy summer, as you know, and we're, we're now getting into the holiday season in New York, which, uh, which is an exciting time.

Speaker 1 [30:17] That is a very exciting time. Now, you've had quite a summer. You, you and I were one of the last official conversations that I had before going out on maternity leave, and uh, I was so excited to share the news about Torch and Crown's new location at New York's iconic Union Square Park, your seasonal installation in the Hamptons, plus you and I chatted a lot about all the things that you guys are getting up to. For all those reasons and more, uh, we're really honored to be able to name. Uh, Torch and Crown, Manhattan's own, uh, Brewbound Rising Star for 2023. So, let's just dive in here because like I said, you've got a lot going on as you shared the busy summer, the New York holiday season. Uh, and that's not all. I mean, I feel like through all the conversations that you and I have had over the years and over many years, Torch and Crown basically operates in hard mode all the time. Your business model is super complex. You've got the taprooms, you package, you self-distribute, and you have a really sizable contract brewing business. What is all of this like and how are you as a leader able to keep all the plates spinning at the same time?

Speaker 5 [31:23] Well, um, It, it, we are definitely in hard mode and that started with building here in, in SoHo. Um, it was, I think, really driven by naivety. I think if, if we knew everything we were, that that really was going to entail, it would, it would have been a harder pitch, but we, we sort of looked at, at what the opportunity would be and how cool it would be if we, if we could pull it off and, and Didn't really ask any more questions. We just kind of went for it, and that's been true of a lot of the different sort of things that we've built, um, including distribution, including, um, our, our other locations and um. And sort of, I, I guess everything that, that we're trying to do, um, that I will say is, is definitely not always a good thing. Um, we, one of my biggest struggles as a leader is looking at, you know, a certain operation or a certain sort of part of our business and Realizing that it, it, it is suboptimal currently and it could be done a lot better. We have the people in the room to do it. We have the know-how and we just haven't had the time to execute. So that's a constant struggle, but really we've, we've built, um, the thing I'm most proud about is, is the team that we have. Um, it's a team of, it's a group of people that all dream like Joe and I did when we first started, all want to, to really get out and And do hard things and they're driven and, and they don't, you know, they don't stop, they don't go home until the job's done. Um, so that's something that, that's what got us through COVID. Um, we, we opened that, I mean, COVID was horrible for For everyone, um, you know, every brewery across the country, we opened at a time when we were over time, over budget, uh, through, through construction, and, um, we got one week of 25% indoor capacity with all those. Rules around New York, uh, before they shut us down for the winter and it was, you know, having to, to turn around and build a whole direct consumer delivery business from scratch over the course of, of 48 hours and that was sort of, that was how we got started. That was our, our first, you know, few, um, our first few, few weeks, few months in business and Um, you know, what that, what that's built is, I think for, for a business as young as we are, is a group of, of people that's kind of battle tested beyond their years. Um, so I can't say enough good things about the, the, the group of people that we have here at Torch and Crown, and they're, they're what's making this hard mode, uh, possible. Certainly, it, it isn't easy, but, um, you know, they're, they're, um, they're what's making it possible. They're, they're, who is, you know, out accomplishing. You know, the extent to which we, we're, we're winning awards or getting news headlines or anything like that. It's, it's all just the, the amazing, amazing group of people we have here.

Speaker 1 [34:17] Yeah, and you're being modest. You know, COVID was hard for everybody in the industry, of course, but you're, you're, you're right in the epicenter. And I remember the conversations that we had in those days. You guys were out doing home delivery. You had a van driving all over Manhattan and you still offer that. So, The way that you were able to pivot the business during that really uncertain time, you've also found things that you've pulled forward from that that are still part of your business. So what did you learn in those crazy, you know, months of 2020 and 2021?

Speaker 5 [34:49] Yeah, that is, it is definitely one of the silver linings there is it, it, you know, operating during that time, um, gave us really a direct route to the customer that we may not have had otherwise, um, and I mean, operating so many different business models, so many different things, like I think we have a far better command of our cost structure and what the, what the real drivers are than probably we would have normally because it seemed like every different week it was now you can do bar service, now you can't, now you can hold, you know, indoor dining in this arrangement, now you can. I mean the amount of like Different just floor plans in our, in our, in our brewery and restaurant down in SoHo all to like to, to the, the whether we were selling to to bars and restaurants at that time or whether a lot of them had shut down and we were, were, you know, trying to move kegs through a different or move, move product through a different channel, all that sort of stuff, um. It led to, um, I think, really a renewed prioritization in terms of, of all roads leading to the customer, and that's been our entire business model, um, since we started. I mean, one of the, one of the things that we really saw, thought was lacking and saw an opportunity for was bringing sort of the world-class hospitality that New York is known for, um, into the beer world. Um, we've, we've been to, to Hundreds of just amazing breweries that you look on one side with, um, you know, all of the shiny new equipment and all the care and detail and just and millions of dollars of investment that have gone into that side and then you look at the side you're standing on where it's kind of a warehouse with some barrels and that same thought hasn't been put to the customer experience and that was the problem that we set out to solve was to be kind of the brewery with the Maybe with the deepest roots right to our community and right to, to our, our customer base, um, to the people who are drinking our beer, um, and getting up close and personal when people are shut, shut down, locked in their homes. I mean, I remember, so I, I myself did thousands of deliveries, so did everyone on our leadership team all through, you know, the entire company was out, out on the road and um Uh, meeting customers where they were, which in the early days in, in the COVID shutdown was in their homes because people weren't allowed to go anywhere else. And so, um, that sort of, that sort of customer obsession, um, I think is, is something that we have carried with us and has, has really helped us dramatically.

Speaker 1 [37:27] Awesome. One thing that's always struck me about you is how well you guys take care of the team. You know, that was really important. You and I have talked a lot about like the benefits that have offered in the culture. How are you able to maintain that culture at all the time, all the time?

Speaker 5 [37:42] Well, I'd be lying if I said the culture was perfect, um, like any growing team, we have our challenges, we have our, our, um, our issues, but I think, um, Leading by example and going the extra mile for, for everyone wherever we can is, is how we have, I think, attracted a group of people that, that will do the same. And that's something, you know, Joe and I were both athletes up through college and, and the, the mentality of kind of you're, you're in this together, you're, you're fighting towards a common goal together and you're willing to do whatever it takes to help the person on the right and the left of you. Um, is something that we, we really wanted to, to bring in as a business. And so, um, everything from our bonus structure is all team-based. It's not, you know, not individual performance, um, and you know, things, things like that, everything from how we, how we train, um, how we train new, new hires where they come through all the different, uh, parts of. Um, of the business and come through all the different parts of, of kind of where they're, they're operating so that we can. Um, you know, so that, that they're cross-trained in case, um, you know, in case we need to change, change jobs or do something different, um, but really just trying to, trying to select people who are, uh, as committed to, to that teamwork mentality as we are, um, and we don't always get it right, but, um, I think the, the good thing is, as you grow, as you hire more and more people who really do share this, this sort of common core trait. Um, when you, when you stray from that, when you hire someone who, who doesn't, um, you know, who doesn't embody that value, uh, they tend to not last very long, and that, that has been the case. And I think that's something we're continually learning. I myself am continually learning as a leader of, of, you know, if we've found a non-culture fit, we need to We need to fix that problem quickly. I, the, I'm the eternal optimist. I mean, you look around at everything we're trying to do. Clearly, I'm, I'm, uh, you know, always, always looking at what can be great, and, um, you know, I think I, I the protecting that culture by, um, by, by making sure that if we don't have a fit, they're not, they're not impacting it is, is something that we've, we've also learned and it's something we're, we're getting better at, I think.

Speaker 1 [40:05] I mean, knowing that things aren't perfect already puts you 15 million steps ahead of a lot of other places. Let's talk a little bit about your big exciting summer. You had the two new locations. Tell me a little bit about both of them.

Speaker 5 [40:19] Yeah, yeah. So, um, I mean, Union Square was really a, a just crazy incredible opportunity that came to us at the last minute. Um, it is a Uh, location actually on Union Square Park. So it's this iconic pavilion structure, which is open to the public. It's kind of complete open air, so it's open to the public really only during the, only during the nice winter months. We actually just closed down for the season on Tuesday. We did a $1 beer night to celebrate, uh, which went exactly as you would expect, I think. Um, and, uh, but, but that's, that's enabled us. I mean, it's, it's the, the most trafficked transit hub here in the city. Um, and it is, it's a central gathering point. And so being right there and being able to, to kind of spread the torch and crown gospel as a, as a part of the city was, was really incredible. So in terms of just the, the amount of, um, you know, the amount of new customers we met over there that we were able to sort of bring into the Torch and Crown ecosystem, but also Um, I think the, the just the, the being in that iconic location and being the, the, the events, the sort of larger scale things we were able to do, we, we, we had a couple of multiple 1000 person events, um, one for actually a um A soccer game that was in town, um, another for, for a big Oktoberfest, um, just sort of community events, um, Pride, we did a massive, um, the Pride parade goes, goes sort of right by Union Square, so we had a massive party for, um, uh, for Pride at the end of June, and, um, it was really just an awesome way to Uh, I guess be, be a part of, of sort of what's happening in the city past, um, past where we are, you know, um, over in SoHo and sort of, uh, throughout the distribution business. Um, and Montauk was, was also, was incredible, was, was, um, was a lot of fun. Um. It was, we, we partnered with a group out there that, that they're called Dive Bar Pizza and um fit our ethos pretty well in terms of, of the pizza is world-class, but there's graffiti on the walls and they're, they're a group of people that really doesn't take themselves too seriously and, and, um, so we kind of became fast friends and um um so, so we did kind of just a pop-up beer garden in their backyard for um Uh, over the weekends in, in the early part of the summer, which, which was, um, which was a lot of fun to be out there, you know, pouring beers by the beach. It, it really, you can't beat that. Um, but, but it was also, you know, during, during the, the hot months here in the, the summer, you get to mid-August and the city is smelling like trash a little bit and You know, it's hot and sticky and all that. People are, uh, people are leaving and, and for us, it's, it's the closest beaches are, are down the shores, as you know, Jess, and, um, um, and out, out, uh, out on Long Island, um, in, in Montauk in the Hamptons. So, um, we were kind of, you know, to some degree, we're just kind of following our crowd out there. Everyone, you know, it was a lot of people we would see 2 or 3 times a week in the, um, in Soho during the week, and then we'd see them there on, on. Uh, on the weekend. So it's a good way to kind of deepen our relationship with, with, um, with our local crowd as well as to, um, to expand a little bit outward and, and, you know, make some connections throughout Long Island.

Speaker 1 [43:48] That's great. Well, John, we are so happy to see all the things that you guys have been able to do over the past few years and we are so proud to be able to name you one of our rising stars. So congrats to you, Joe, and the whole team. Uh, we are so happy for you guys.

Speaker 5 [44:01] Thank you so much. This, um, you know, the whole team is, you, you said it. It's a, it's a big honor. Obviously, you know, I've, I've been reading, reading Brewbound since, since way back when we were in the business planning stage and found it. Um, you know, incredibly helpful from, from the informational standpoint, um, you know, even before that. And so, um, this is, this is huge for, for us, you know, for me personally, but it's, um, you know, everything that we've accomplished, it's really been, been, it's an incredible, incredible group of people, um, that we have working together. So we're, we're all, uh, we're all honored by it.

Speaker 1 [44:36] Hi, I'm Brewbound managing editor Justin Fonte. Welcome back to the Brewbound Live 2023 live stream. I am so excited to be here today with another one of our rising stars. Uh, right now we're gonna talk all about Trace Brewing, who is, uh, based in the Bloomfield section of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and with me today is Adam Sorma, head of marketing and guest experience. Adam, what's going on? How are you? Good, thanks for having us, Jess. Yeah, everything's good. The Brewbound Rising Stars list has a lot of different companies, different breweries. We try to change it up both by geography and business model. And something that I love about Trace is that you guys are so great. At building community, whether you do that through events, you really have tapped into your local surroundings, and you don't have these, these machinations of getting national distribution and like selling into sea stories. Like you really, you, you figured out what you're good at and you're really, really good at it. So, Adam, let's talk a little bit about the events that you told uh Justin and I about. Yeah, thank you. Um, yeah, no, we're small and we appreciate the, you know, the recognition. Um, yeah, we're traced. We're here in Pittsburgh, PA. We're a brewery and a coffee shop with a small cafe, and we throw a lot of events. Um, yeah, I think that, you know, if I think about the various communities that exist around Pittsburgh, um, you know, we touch a lot of them through, particularly our events and programming. Uh, we have a monthly disco that's usually on a Sunday evening. We have a monthly hip hop party that we host in the summertime. We host drag queens and performers for our drag brunch series. It sort of rotates if you envision like a, like a knob, stops on all these sort of, you know, sections and tribes and communities. We try to speak to each of them. And of course the underlying community being beverage, coffee, beer, and the things that we do on site. Amazing, but one thing you've been able to do through all of these is be like a really welcoming place for groups that might not necessarily see themselves reflected in the broader craft beer industry. And, you know, I think one way you've been able to do that is by not taking the beer too seriously, you know, you guys aren't stuffy and pretentious and And droning on about, you know, hops and malt and all of that. And not to say that the ingredients aren't important, they certainly are, but, you know, you, you aren't taking it too seriously. It's beer, it's fun. So tell us a little bit about your portfolio. What are some of your favorite beers in the Trace family? Oh, sure. Um, I think that to be honest with you, we're really lucky to have our wild and our Fer program. Um, so to your point, yeah, we don't get too nerdy or, you know, niche, getting into various hops or grain bills. But if I think about my favorite beers that we've done, Our head brewer Zach Colton comes with a pretty awesome repository and sort of portfolio in wild. And so when we open ferment in our cool ship vessel and we knock that out and then barrel age it and then rest it on various fruits and other things. You know, we did a blended grisette which was actually fermented clean that we rested on second use cherries and mulberries after resting in a wine barrel, and we bottled it and we called it Dream of a Day that it's dry, it's a little tart, a little funky. We've submitted that beer for a couple of awards, and it's one that I'm proud of. Um, I would also say a lot of guests who come from a beer background and they walk into Trace and you actually see the two American oak fooders. There's a lager fooder and a Cezanne fooder. Our fooder Cezanne, we added for 10. Myo to that particular fooder and so each batch has sort of been like batch 1, batch 2, batch 3, and as we bottle it and let it carve up and enter service, the Footer Cezanne series has been a super fun just thing for folks to experience who maybe have not had Cezanne or lager from a fooder. So, these are very serious beers that you're making, but again, you don't take them too seriously. How does this bring in consumers? You know, what, what, what can the average person find who maybe doesn't know a whole lot about craft beer when they come to a trace event? How, how does that work? How do you introduce them to the brand? That's a great question. I think um. If you were to sort of approach or ask a conventional day to day regular trace guest, um, you know, the most memorable moment or something that brings them in, they might actually point to an event or a program or something that sort of speaks to them more directly, and the beverage, although it maybe sits in the back seat, it's always there and it's present because we're all ages, because we open at 8. a.m. 7 days a week. These are the things that sort of build community because we were there, we're open, we're able to host, you know, a plethora of events because all the furniture and the space is very modular. So if you, if you look at the intersection of our guests and our beverage that sort of exists at each of these events, which some of them don't even really. Uh, reach for beer. I think that it's totally cool if folks are expecting a child like you just had a baby, or, uh, you know, if you're a Muslim or you just choose not to drink. I think that we're seeing um You know, pretty awesome stuff happened in our, you know, coffee realm and the way that Joe on our coffee side and Zach sort of collaborate, interact, come up with things. We might rest some beer in a firkin or a cask that we'll add some tea to, and we'll kind of do it as a one-off tea beer that Joe and Zach will collaborate on. And although that is, you know, that has booze, I mean, it's, it's it's a fun on-site. because that's most of our day to day. We're not in distro. We're not, we're a 10 barrel system and you know, we won't even touch 1000 barrels this year. We're so small. I think we're we're beneath the smallest tier of craft, even as a unit of measure. So that's not really our focus. Um, it's more just sort of providing that experience in a in an inclusive, safe space for folks to come hang out. So, I mean, you mentioned we know about the coffee, uh, that's huge for you guys. But you know, you talked about you get guests who maybe don't drink beer, maybe they don't drink anything. What, what options would they find uh if they came to an event at Trace? Oh, totally. Yeah, it's, uh, you know, with our Pennsylvania license, you know, we're able to serve really anything manufactured in the state. So we're happy to provide a draft cocktail from our partners at Goodlander, which are a small local brand, um. You know, we carry wine from Pittsburgh Winery, we carry soda from Red Ribbon. We carry, you know, just a whole realm of cider and seltzer and really anything that we can do that's made in Pennsylvania. Of course, the beer and the coffee is our sweet spot. Those are the two sort of beverages you see on the signage. When you walk in, that's, that was our intention off the bat to do coffee and beer. But you know, when we take a look at our community and our consumer base, it's totally cool to reach for a cocktail or a wine or a cider. So we want to have something on for every type of drinker, including the non-alcoholic drinker. That's awesome. You know, Adam, I think one thing that's really interesting to me is your title. You know, you're the head of marketing and the guest experience. I think that really speaks to how important that is to trace, is making sure that all of your guests have the best experience possible. And I think, uh, you know, something that we've talked about in our, our previous conversation was, you know, you've really tapped into different niches, uh, around the neighborhood and around the city. And one thing that I loved hearing about was the, the F1 fans that come to Trace. Tell us a little bit about that. Sure, um, yeah, guest experience is something I made up. I feel like I love it though. It's so good because it's perfect. It really, I really mean this. Like it really shows how important guests are, like at the heart of the company. Sure, yeah, you know, the real guest experience comes from our general manager Katie and our front of house staff because they're killer. They bring such a flavor of art and culture and just like a vibe to our space that really I would say the guest experience flows through our front of house. For events like F1, that kind of came about sporadically. There seems to be sort of this community of folks who watch F1 racing. They in 2021 and 2022, they had a couple of bars they would talk to to sort of be that home base and, um, you know, drop down a projector and screen the race. There's obviously a, there's a time zone change and there's various, um, you know, challenges with that with an international sport. Uh, they came to us last year and they said, Hey, you have, uh, you have a taproom, you have a coffee shop, you have beer, you have a projector. Could we come sit down and stream, you know, this series of races? And so we went through the calendar and looked to see the ones that do fall in like Europe or Asia, but they're within our hours of operation. We began streaming it and it's really grown and About a couple of weeks back in early November, we did our season finale party where we asked folks in Pittsburgh who have maybe a niche sports car or a vintage sports car to come and actually park it in our alley next to the brewery, and we just served coffee and beer before and after the race and let folks just kind of hang out and meet these car owners and that kind of culmination or, you know, End of the season event was, um, it was fun to see, you know, the way that that community has come and grown and they feel at home at Trace. Um, it's, it's a sport that I know very little about. The actual point person who runs that series, his name is Moe. So we interface with him to just make sure that we're able to, you know, basically house this, this group once a week or once every other week, typically on a Sunday morning. Um. And yeah, we're now the home of Pittsburgh's F1 community. That's amazing. I mean, because it's a time when you probably wouldn't have been that busy anyway. You've now brought in more traffic and you've built this really great relationship with this group of people. So, like, just so smart. I'm, I'm so impressed by that. As we look back at 2023, what are you most proud of that Trace has accomplished this year? Wow, great question. I, I would say that, um, basically in, in three realms. The first realm, you know, in the coffee realm, it's exciting for our head of coffee, Joe, to travel and compete at coffee competitions, and he was able to qualify to nationals through Baltimore through the regional quarterfinal, and he competed at the US Coffee championships. Um, that's amazing. He's like a top 20 barista in the country. And here he's at a brewery, you know, and that's, it's. exciting to see what he's done. He's flown to Guatemala to do selection and to, you know, source coffee that we want to roast through Ghost, his brand and serve. Um, on the beer side, for sure, it's been really fun, as we talked about, to finally have some beer available from our cool ship. I think that when we first opened in early 2021, you know, guests would walk in and see the vessel and say, oh, I want to. Drink a beer out of the cool ship, you know, and I'd say we'll come back in 2023 because we're going to have to, you know, age that stuff. So it's been really nice to finally have some of those barrel projects done and bottled and in service, um, the grisette, the Cezanne, the wild ale, all that stuff has been exciting for folks to try, especially for first time guests that have never drank beer that's open fermented or mixed culture. And then the third thing I would say is definitely on the event side, like, it's so cool to see, you know, the folks who throw our, um, we have a hip hop party called Slappers and Bangers, and when Ron and Neil came to us a couple of years back to try it as an outdoor day party concept, you know, they typically go late night at bars. We wanted to give it a try, and they celebrated their 8 year anniversary of that party at Trace's in September, and we shut down the whole. Alley and Red Bull came and sponsored it and it was like really, really fun to see like the people of color and the black community and the brown community and all these folks come together to just dance and vibe and have a good time and celebrate what's kind of become one of the biggest parties in Pittsburgh. That, that was exciting and we were happy to host them and it's also a lot of fun for our staff. I think that, uh, you know, have, have we, had we not been hosting that party, I'd probably be there, you know, even if it was offsite. That, and honestly, as a new parent, I, all the day parties, I'm a big fan of this idea, genius. Awesome. Well, 2023 was awesome for you guys. We're so happy to have named you a rising star. What can we expect from tracing 2024? Sure, yeah, we're, um, yeah, we're opening a second, uh, taproom. So we're just going to keep production as is. Um, the new tap room will be closer to downtown Pittsburgh, uh, near Duquesne University in Uptown. Um, we'll have our coffee, we'll have our beer. I think that, um, beyond that, uh, just trying to honestly. Continue being a good neighbor and a good partner and a good member of the community. Um, it's been really fun to see folks who don't, you know, usually go to breweries come to Trace and um feel like welcome and um like they have a space to hang out. I think that that's sort of the guiding compass for a lot of my day to day on the marketing side is to speak to both the beer drinkers and the non-beer drinkers. So this second taproom will be fun and in a new neighborhood in a new location. But beyond that, I would say just try to, try to keep on, keep it on. Amazing. Well, you're threading that needle beautifully. From all of us at Brewbound to all of you at Trace, congratulations on being a rising star. We are so happy for you guys. Thank you. I appreciate the recognition. Hi. Welcome back to the Brewbound Live 2023 live stream. I am Brewbound managing editor, Jessica Infante, and with me today is Kevin Asado, the inaugural executive director of the National Black Brewers Association, or the NB2A. Kevin, welcome. How are you?

Speaker 6 [59:06] I am fantastic. Yes. So good, good, good, good to be here. Um, man, that was quite the intro. I'll tell you, I like that.

Speaker 1 [59:13] Oh, thank you, thank you. Well, I'm thrilled that you're here. So, you know, we are so excited to share that the NB2A and its founding members are Brewbound's beer champion of the Year. The Beer Champion Awards started in 2020 to celebrate individuals and groups who work to improve conditions across the industry, and the MBTA is the first ever trade organization to support African-American brewers and brewery owners with their needs and issues. With their needs and issues, which can differ from those of the industry at large. So, to me, this was a no-brainer. I am so excited to, to, be honoring you guys with this award and just congratulations.

Speaker 6 [59:52] Thank you so much. I mean, it's, uh, it's quite an honor to be actually be bestowed this. Award and this recognition, make no mistake there, um, we don't think that we're doing anything that someone else wouldn't have done in the future. We're just the lucky ones to actually bring it together today. So make no mistake, we are thrilled to pieces that you recognize the work that's being done. Um, not just by this organization, but our entire community that's, you know, making up this organization there. So thank you so much for the recognition. This is huge that the brewing community at large recognizes the impact and how powerful and how important this is. So thank you so much.

Speaker 1 [1:00:30] Well, it's so important. I mean, and I pulled this from your website, but you know, less than 1% of craft breweries in the US are owned by African Americans, and there's no single entity to help them. So, Why don't you tell us, rather than me quoting your website to you, tell us a little bit about, you know, the initial goals for the organization in its first year, because I'm sure they'll evolve and change over time. But, but for right now, what are you hoping to accomplish in year one?

Speaker 6 [1:00:57] As you can hear, the reason why we started, right, there's just such a gap between whether it be the current drinking population of African Americans that represent about 8% of the drinking population, and then if you look at perhaps the total demographic of blacks in the US, you know, it's about 13%. Just to have less than 0.1% just seemed like such a disparity, and we don't know what the right number of. Brewery ownership should be today, but suffice it to say I think it's something north of where we're at today, right? So, and that's what our efforts are here to do, you know, that's the benchmark that we'll measure ourselves on, you know, can we increase the number of black brewery owners in the US? But beyond that, you know, we're definitely looking to celebrate the history and the legacy and the accomplishments of black brewers in the beer community, and that's a key, key factor. Um, you know, we didn't just happen upon this business. We've been in this business for quite some time, so that's a very important piece. The other piece is we also want to be a clearinghouse and of resources. So as organizations, companies, you know, well-wishers or even supporters of any sort say, hey, I want to be able to support and provide some tools or I want to be able to tap. Into a community of black brewers because either I have a resource or I have opportunities for them. We want to be that definitive resource for not just our black brewers but for all those that are interested in supporting what we do. So you know that's another key component there. And then a significant piece is going to be, you know, supporting legislative acts, you know, whether it be activities that the brewers Association is working on. You know, we'll essentially kind of pick up where they leave off or things that are specific to our community. We'll definitely, you know, drive home some legislative practices that make sense for our community as well. So lots going on.

Speaker 1 [1:02:38] Yeah, well, I mean, beer is so different from other, other industries because of that regulatory component, and it's not easy to get into as an industry in general. And there's, you know, there's many things that make it hard. So I'm so glad that you guys have come together to help this really important and very necessary group of people enter into the ranks of brewery ownership. So that said, you know, there are plenty of, you know, members of your founding class who are dear friends of Brewbound, like, you know, the crew at Crowns and Hops, who is, I don't think I'm breaking any news here. It should all be public knowledge by the time this airs, but who, uh, you know, Benny and Tia are one of our, uh, rising stars for the year. You know, you've got a lot of members in California, which is where we'll be for the conference, uh, but what, what other parts of the country are you, are your members strongest in?

Speaker 6 [1:03:24] Oh my goodness, it's surprising. We have great presence in so many locations New York, Georgia, uh, Michigan, Ohio, just, it's bizarre how some of these places just have just a concentration, but When they're so spread out, you don't know that there's a concentration of black brewers in that space there. So it's not until you actually have these conversations where you pull some of them in together, you start realizing, wow, wow, hey, I'm not only here in the state, I'm only just a few miles away, or this portion of the country. Don't get me wrong, you know, while we don't have black breweries in every portion of the US, you know, that still, you know, is our opportunity, and you know, maybe that's something that we can correct moving forward, but you know, The major cities, the major metropolitans, and you know what I love about this is not that it's limited to only major cities and metropolitans. This is actually how craft beer really resonates best with that community, right? If you're in an outlying area, a real rural local area, you become that community center of sorts there, that community meeting place, and that's precisely where some of our breweries are thriving, you know, that's Where I'm seeing the success, and that's where I'm seeing really those color lines really starting to get blurred there, you know, if you are in some of these remote, you know, areas, our breweries are being supported by all walks of life, and that's the beautiful component there. So, um, we have some work to do, but we do have definitely a couple of hotspots.

Speaker 1 [1:04:53] Awesome. I mean, craft beer is certainly at its finest when, you know, breweries can act as you know, community gathering places, and that's You know, one of my favorite things about the industry for sure, and the industry really is, you know, there may be almost 10,000 breweries, but it is still very small, uh, for the most part in that it's very tight knit and everybody kind of knows each other. So, you know, what kind of support have you received from the broader craft beer industry so far since your introduction in the spring?

Speaker 6 [1:05:20] Uh, great question. First of all, um, let me start with the one big, big supporter. When you think of craft beer, I'm sure you can go down to the actual breweries, and so I'll hold that for a quick second, but then let me just go to a fellow association, and that's the Brewers Association, right? You know, they are the total umbrella for all craft beer, and you know, Bob Pease and his team have not only welcomed their, you know, us into open arms there, but have supported us tremendously. Whether it be presence and getting us into the Great American Beer Festival, presence at their annual conference there, these are significant presence and partnerships in addition to some of the other resources that, you know, that, you know, just too many of the list at this point, but you know, they see the value of what we're doing and they see the natural brotherhood or fraternal order that can live and these two organizations can mutually coexist while still being independent of each other there. So you know our brewers are part of the larger brewing community. We may just have some systemic challenges that are, that are unique to our organization or our membership, and that's why we can still benefit from all the work that the brewers have done. So the brewers Association is absolutely well received there. From a larger standpoint, I cannot be more proud of the partnership that the Boston Beer Company has, you know, right out of the gates. They were the first and foremost a partner from an actual brand and producer standpoint. So thank you, Boston Beer Company and the entire team behind that. Um, they have not just provided money, they have provided just a tremendous amount of educational resources and additional. Connectivity to lend their resources to our community, whether it be hosting our board meeting or you name it, there, there are so many tools that they've made available and I could not be prouder with that. And I, I do think that it actually helped spur some of the dialogue and perhaps, you know, move the needle to get partners like My goodness, Molson Coors, Diageo, uh, the, the, these are, you know, Alleghas that came out and openly said, hey, we want to support what you're doing, but more importantly, we believe in what you're doing. So we, we absolutely appreciate, you know, the Boston Beer Company with their initial effort, but absolutely also appreciate all of our existing business council members there, including, um, you know, because as we talked about, this is a highly regulatory, you know, environment, and now we even have that three-tier system. And you know, having the National Beer Wholesalers Network support us and outwardly, you know, inviting us to their conference there has been just well received, and I think the piece that continues to shock me, and I say shock only because There has not been any negativity. There's just this growing circle of influence and people that are saying, Wow, yeah, I'm on board. So you know, when we start talking to more and more people about what we're doing and we're getting more press and as that dialogue in these circles start expanding. This is when we start, you know, there's a group called Care Solace that's around mental health, and when you think about, you know, brewery ownership or just, you know, some of the challenges that are uniquely black, well, clearly there's some, some benefits to have some, you know, mental health supports there, and that organization came through to support us. And then any of the allied trade partners that we've seen come on board, you know, there's just been such an outpouring, whether it's a line cleaning service or you know, distribution services there, you know, freight forwarders. We are so, so, so pleased so far with the acceptance from All walks, you know, even suppliers, you know, hop suppliers and whatnot there. So early on, and I, I know it's still very early on, we aren't even at a year yet technically, and we've had great, great, great, uh, public acceptance.

Speaker 1 [1:09:16] That's amazing. Now, how long has, has this organization been, you know, a dream or an idea? How long has this been in planning?

Speaker 6 [1:09:24] In planning that, I don't know. Um, I will say though, December of 2022 is when the Articles of incorporation came into effect, um, and then building all the infrastructure needed to actually build an organization to make it credible, reputable, sustainable, um, those are all things that kind of carried us into Um, you know, they had their first board meeting in February and then they brought me on board to actually do the nuts and bolts of actually standing up the organization, and that started in May. So, you know, the work started in December. Prior to that, I get the impression, and I only say I get the impression because I wasn't part of all the dialogue that took place, but there had been several attempts of bringing this group of people together, and it just, for whatever reason, just never, you know, kind of had. You know, the staying power or couldn't get together there. So I, I, I do really appreciate the efforts of Kevin Johnson and maybe it's his background in political, you know, in being a former mayor or maybe being a team leader, and of course, you know, the relationships that have him, you know, bringing some resources to the table here, all of that really, you know, this organization really needed, you know, someone with that vision, with the level of resources, and quite frankly, from that charisma, if you will, right, to Galvanize everybody to come together and say, all right, this is legit, this is for real, this isn't just one of those things that happened in the past. No, we're doing this. And so, you know, Kevin Johnson was pretty instrumental on really bringing this to life. So hats off to you, KJ.

Speaker 1 [1:10:54] Appreciate it. Kevin, absolutely a force. So that makes so much sense to me. So, for other people throughout the industry who maybe haven't gotten involved yet, how can they do that? What support do you need from the rest of the beer industry to, to continue moving forward?

Speaker 6 [1:11:10] Uh, great. Another great question there, Jess. Um, first thing is become a member. I think that's the one thing that people always kind of, you know, get surprised at when I tell them. I go, yes, this is the National Black Brewers Association, but you can be a member. We are an inclusive organization there and so you don't have to be black and you don't have to be a black brewer to boot, you know, you could just simply be a. Supporter of what we're doing or a supporter of the cause that we're trying to, you know, realize there and that said, you know that allows anybody from any walk of life to be a member there and you can go to our website nb2a.org and on the top right corner it has a very clear join now button there and it's a very simple prompt to join. But even if it's not membership, you know, I talked about being perhaps that clearinghouse of resources, right, to give an avenue to organizations or individuals that say, you know something, I have time, I have services, I have other stuff that I can provide beyond financial resources. I'd like it to go to someone, you know, that's from your community. We can absolutely facilitate that. We've been very fortunate to have a partner in Triumph Brewing that had some brewing equipment, didn't know exactly what he wanted to do with it, donated a 10 barrel brew house. We were able to source alongside with the Michael James Jackson Foundation. find a healthy recipient and bring that to life and the MB2A help facilitate the cost and whatnot. So that's a perfect example of being able to take some equipment, find a worthy recipient, and our organization can help facilitate the costs or ultimately the implementation, but that is, you know, what I'll go back to. Maybe it's accounting services, maybe it's, you know, graphic design services that have been really, you know. Pleased to hear that there are people that are, you know, maybe on the sideline of not producing beer but have supportive services, and we can absolutely find those, you know, uses and benefits there. So it can come in any form, you know, any way. Just raise your hand and shoot an email our way.

Speaker 1 [1:13:09] Awesome. Triumph is one of the first craft breweries I ever went to.

Speaker 6 [1:13:12] So, oh wow, yeah, that's right. You're in the Northeast. So yeah, absolutely,

Speaker 1 [1:13:16] yeah, yeah, it's funny, I grew up in New Jersey and uh they have been, you know, a New Jersey craft beer. Like institution forever, yeah,

Speaker 6 [1:13:27] yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So we appreciate Adam Rushnitz and his help with, uh, you know, and donating that equipment there. That's huge kudos.

Speaker 1 [1:13:35] Great. Well, what can we expect from the NB2A in 2024?

Speaker 6 [1:13:39] My goodness, uh,

Speaker 1 [1:13:41] so much, I know, right?

Speaker 6 [1:13:43] Yeah, I mean, the workload is about yay big, the time is about this big, so, you know, uh. Kevin Johnson said this almost jokingly when he, you know, the entire team was, you know, reaching out to me and I was interviewing for this. He's like, hey, we're gonna do 3 years' worth of work in one. Like, sure, everybody says that, no problem. Um, the pace by which this is moving and the things that we're doing, that is 100% true. I think, you know, some of the key things that you'll see us moving forward is our priority is, you know, to continue to grow membership, right? We want to make sure that we have a definitive list of all the black breweries that are out there, right? You know, there's some that still haven't recognized themselves or been identified, but also, you know, building that membership, it still continues to be the priority. But as I talked about growing the image and you know, supporting the legacy in history, you know, we do that by doing events like focusing on October 10th and getting National Black Brewers Day. You know, this year we set out with a goal of hitting, you know, 10 jurisdictions that were recognized October 10th, and the significance of October 10th, that is the day that the first African American brewer. was open, you know, Ted Mack Sr. in Oshkosh, Wisconsin opened up the very first black owned brewery. So we want to make sure that we continue to pay homage to that particular date and we do that, like I said, by having jurisdictions recognized October 10th as National Black Brewers' Day. Well, we started off with a goal of 10. We blew through that goal and hit 18 just in year one. With that 18 and the recognition and the press that we got, we now have partnered with the National Black Caucus of State Legislators to make this a federal piece. So what we were just working and hoping for from a local piece ended up being a federal effort there. So we're going to make this a true federal national holiday. And then the other key things that you'll see is we're going to continue with Black is Beautiful. We had so much success in the first few years, with the collaboration efforts there created by Marcus Baskerville out of Weathered Souls in which the proceeds at the first time went to a social injustice, a local social injustice cause of your choice, but you know. Garnered or collected 1600 breweries to brew this beer and put those proceeds back towards a social injustice cause of your choice. We're evolving that program to, still having it. We changed the recipe this year. It's a hazy IPA, and we're going to push that piece out there in which the proceeds are now are coming back to the NB2A. But some of the things that we're doing, we, we have some partners in the way of, you know, partners like Whole Foods that have said, Hey, look, I like what you're doing with this thing. I want to make sure that we're a big supporter and have this, you know, product available in a national retail chain. And so you're going to continue to see a lot of what you saw this year, but just exploded much bigger and broader.

Speaker 1 [1:16:27] Awesome. I, did we just make a little news here? I don't think I knew about, you know, Black is Beautiful 2.0, so you and I are going to talk a little bit more.

Speaker 6 [1:16:35] But we have some more to talk about.

Speaker 1 [1:16:36] Well, all of that sounds incredible, and I am exhausted on your behalf personally because 3 years of work in 1 year sounds like a lot, but you know, it's been 6 months, and I feel like you guys have already done 3 years' worth of work. So the dedication is impressive. Yeah, we're so excited for you guys. You're so needed. So we're just Thrilled that you're able to join us, both for this video, but also at the conference and all the things that I know we've collaborated on together already. Uh, thank you so much and congratulations.