[00:00:00] Justin Kendall: Next on the Brewbound Podcast, middle-tier consolidation, intoxicating hemp's future, and more with the NBWA's Craig Purser. Hello and welcome to the Brewbound Podcast. I'm Justin Kendall.
[00:00:23] Jessica Infante: I'm Jessica Infante. And I'm Zoe Licata.
[00:00:26] Justin Kendall: And this week we're bringing you a double shot of interviews. First, we're going to have a conversation with NBWA president and CEO, Craig Purser. He's going to share what's up at the National Beer Wholesalers Association. Give us a lay of the land on middle tier consolidation that we've seen recently with the collapse sell off, whatever you want to call it from RNDC. He's also going to talk a little bit about intoxicating hemp and that's a pretty interesting perspective from someone who is one of the top lobbyists in Washington, D.C.
[00:01:01] Speaker 1: Yeah, and then after Craig, you will hear from Deepa Chungi, the Director of Programming at Aeronaut. I chatted with her at CBC in Philadelphia a couple of weeks ago. We had a great chat about all the really like innovative things they have going on in their taproom to drive regular foot traffic and bring in maybe people who wouldn't otherwise think of themselves as like craft brewery visitors. Really, really enjoyed talking to her.
[00:01:23] Jessica Infante: Yeah, they always have a lot of cool stuff going on.
[00:01:25] Justin Kendall: I don't want to spoil anything, but the Pitch a Friend, Very cool.
[00:01:30] Speaker 1: Yeah. That's like, I don't want to say it's common, but it's, I've seen it happen a couple other places.
[00:01:37] Jessica Infante: Yeah. It's become like a social media phenomenon, but they're constantly posting about events and they had Vinyl Friday where we got back from CBC and it's always lots of not beer related things, but held at the brewery. Very cool.
[00:01:55] Justin Kendall: Stay tuned for those conversations. Also stay tuned. Brewbound Live is coming up December 9th and 10th in Los Angeles. Tickets are available now. more announcements to come in the very near future. Plus, looking for a job, looking for somebody to hire, Brewbound's got a job board, check it out at Brewbound.com. But let's get into some of the stories that our insiders are reading at Brewbound.com. And we gotta pour one out for Schlitz, because Pabst is calling it a day, putting it on hiatus, and The quote was like, oh, you know, we always look for ways to bring back brands, but we may be seeing Schlitz's last ride here.
[00:02:41] Speaker 1: Yeah, perhaps no longer give to Schlitz. I feel like everybody always kind of hopes to have what happens to PBR itself, you know, what, 20 years ago? So I get why they're being a little cagey about it in hopes that maybe one day Schlitz can have its grandpa beard day in the sun. So maybe it will. I don't know how you made that happen, but I think you're right, safe to say this is probably it.
[00:03:09] Justin Kendall: Well, this is also a brand that has been acquired numerous times. Pabst took over the brand in 1999. They relaunched it in 2008 with a recipe that they claim was from the sixties. But this is a brand that was once one of the largest breweries for the largest brewery in the country. And then. Times got tough, they cut corners, they tried to swap out some ingredients and there was a backlash and they never really recovered and then Stro acquired the brewery, which Pabst also owns at this point. My favorite part was digging into the actual like genesis of the brand and how It was founded in 1849 and the bookkeeper that ended up like taking it over also like married the original founder's wife and then named it for himself.
[00:04:09] Speaker 1: I would watch the Drunk History episode about this. Does that show still exist? It should.
[00:04:14] Justin Kendall: It definitely should for this.
[00:04:16] Speaker 1: This is the beer that made Milwaukee famous, correct?
[00:04:19] Justin Kendall: It is. And it's also the beer when you're out of Schlitz, you're out of beer. R.I.P. Farewell for now, but Wisconsin Brewing Company brewing a final batch. They got permission to do the last call for Schlitz and that beer is expected to be available in late June, June 27th. And you can pre-order that if you're in Wisconsin and pick it up starting this weekend, May 23rd. Get it if you want it while you can.
[00:04:51] Speaker 1: Tonight's sent off.
[00:04:54] Justin Kendall: Also getting a send off is Bauhaus. That same weekend. Same weekend, huh? We're losing our Midwestern beers.
[00:05:02] Speaker 1: Yeah. So Bauhaus Brew Labs in Minneapolis posted last week on social media that they are saying farewell for a bunch of reasons. And they named a bunch of reasons in this very eloquent farewell Facebook post. But some of them are the ones that you hear everybody say ingredients went up, consumers are going elsewhere. It's just too hard. to make it anymore. And they pointed to all the other things that they were doing. They were diversifying their portfolio. They'd gotten into contract production to try to make sure that their tanks were running as much as possible. And yeah, we hear all of that a lot. But one thing that they mentioned that we don't hear from everybody is that the months-long ice surge in the Twin Cities really hurt their business. So I did a little digging, did some research, and yeah, they're not wrong. The Minnesota Craft Brewers Guild did a survey of members and found that two-thirds of members said that the Operation Metro Surge, which was ICE's occupation in the area from December through February affected them. The mayor's office put out a study that they assumed there was over $200 million in economic impact in the Twin Cities in general. The hospitality and leisure industries did some digging and realized they had lost close to 6,000 jobs. So it's one thing, but I think it was an interesting thing. Which is not to say that other brewery closures are not interesting, but I thought this was noteworthy and newsworthy, and so we wrote about it. Really sad. They had a huge outpouring of support from the people who follow them on Facebook, saying how much they're going to miss them and how sad this is. They will be closing the last weekend of June, which will be their 12th anniversary party, but also a farewell.
[00:06:51] Justin Kendall: The Guild really went deep too in these numbers and reported that affected breweries saw business decline between 20 percent and 60 percent during the surge. And they also cut back staff hours by about an average of 30 percent.
[00:07:08] Speaker 1: Yeah. Which I want to say turned out to being about 200 hours per brewery.
[00:07:13] Justin Kendall: Yes.
[00:07:14] Speaker 1: So yeah, you know, we, we talked to breweries in the area at the time. You can scroll back in your podcast feed and find our conversation with Insight Brewing about what they were doing to support their community during the surge. And yeah, this is unfortunately something that has had a very real and lasting impact on an industry that was already hurting to begin with.
[00:07:34] Justin Kendall: So you can read more about Bauhaus's closure and all these stories if you become a Brewbound insider today.
[00:07:43] Speaker 2: Go check it out if you're already an insider too.
[00:08:05] Justin Kendall: Before we get out of here, Jess, I don't even know how to set this up because you are leading us through this.
[00:08:11] Speaker 1: Oh, I don't know how I was the lucky one to receive this press release yesterday and neither of you did, but I got a good chuckle out of it, warmed my heart a little bit. Yesterday, a press release landed in my inbox from a PR agency that's representing the Mike's Hard Lemonade family, and they are jumping on the viral trend out of Utah right now of dirty sodas, and they are launching Mike's Dirty Lemonade. It is a new non-carbonated hard lemonade lineup. That's the perfect drink for the summer season, as I just shamelessly quote from this press release. But they are partnering with the All-American Rejects in connection with this partnership, the band is releasing their first album in 14 years. And one of the flavors in this Dirty Lemonade pack is called Dirty Lemonade Secret. Of course, it is amazing. I texted several people of my same age who enjoy this musical genre yesterday to share this news with them, and they all effusively texted back, hahahaha, several times.
[00:09:20] Jessica Infante: Was this the only pun name in the pack?
[00:09:23] Speaker 1: I am not so familiar with All-American Rejects discography that I'm not entirely sure, but I believe so. There's Dirty Lemonade Secret, Dark Cherry Brew, Very Berry Grape, and Pineapple Haze.
[00:09:33] Justin Kendall: No swing, swing, strawberry?
[00:09:36] Speaker 1: No.
[00:09:38] Justin Kendall: Unfortunately not. Missed opportunity here.
[00:09:41] Jessica Infante: I was hoping for some sort of gives you hell reference, but nothing.
[00:09:46] Justin Kendall: What rhymes with hell? That's a fruit.
[00:09:49] Speaker 1: I mean, there's smell, but that's not really. It's part of the experience, but it's not really one you want to advertise.
[00:09:55] Jessica Infante: No.
[00:09:56] Speaker 1: Yeah. I wonder how many more dirty soda takes we're going to see. I feel like that is like a slightly untapped well.
[00:10:03] Jessica Infante: I was just recently talking with Chad Heath over at Carl Strauss about their hard cherry cola. And he was saying that folks are making their own dirty sodas with it, which is really interesting. So it's very much a thing now. Dirty sodas, you can have them with alcohol, I guess. Just continuing to up the ante every time.
[00:10:25] Speaker 1: Which is completely the opposite of why dirty sodas exist to begin with.
[00:10:29] Jessica Infante: Right, it's very funny. The whole point was because they couldn't indulge in things like alcohol and cocktails and technically you're not really supposed to have coffee or caffeine either, but these sodas were OK. And they dressed them up with syrups and things.
[00:10:47] Speaker 1: I wonder if they're using the non-caffeinated versions. Maybe. How far we have strayed from God's light.
[00:10:54] Jessica Infante: What are they constituting a dirty soda for these? Like, is there dairy in this?
[00:10:59] Speaker 1: That's a great question.
[00:11:01] Jessica Infante: Because that would be a little concerning to me.
[00:11:03] Speaker 1: So as part of this collaboration and campaign there, you can go to Mike's hard dot com to share your own dirty little secrets. And I will enter you for a chance to win a VIP trip to see the band play in Chicago. That's great. I really want to know what comes out of that.
[00:11:19] Justin Kendall: So have you already submitted yours?
[00:11:21] Speaker 1: No, I don't have any dirty secrets. I'm a deeply boring person who also over shares all the time.
[00:11:28] Jessica Infante: Do you have to prove that it was true? We're writers, we could come up with something. Oh, we could.
[00:11:34] Speaker 1: You know, I don't really know what makes this dirty. Just some extra sugar. It's non-carbonated and super smooth and swirled with deliciously outrageous flavors. Interesting. Per the website, you may taste creamy coconut notes, a touch of hot honey-style sweetness, bursts of cherry hints of grape or subtle spice that add depth and character. Yeah, I don't know. I feel like we, uh, we should try this. What's the ABV on this? Oh, four, five. That's. Oh, wow. But this is listed on their website as like a new pillar of the Mike's family. So like there's Mike's hard, Mike's harder and Mike's dirty and. I hope my mother doesn't listen to this episode.
[00:12:16] Jessica Infante: I need one of the brewers or science folks listening to this podcast. Please help us figure out how do they make an uncarbonated silky texture in these F&Bs. Please let us know the secret.
[00:12:29] Justin Kendall: So are you buying another round or are you tabbing out on this?
[00:12:33] Jessica Infante: I'm buying another round on collabing with 2000s. I don't know what you would even describe All-American Rejects genre as, but alt bands, pop punk.
[00:12:46] Justin Kendall: Emo pop punk.
[00:12:47] Jessica Infante: Do you guys feel like emo nostalgia is having a moment? Yeah. Right? It's kind of everywhere. It like always comes and goes, but. Well, it was never a phase, Zoe. No, never. Emo nights are still very much a thing. So I don't know.
[00:13:04] Justin Kendall: Is Dashboard partnering with any alcoholic brands?
[00:13:07] Speaker 1: This would be a fun game, like pair the band to the drink. Let us know, comment.
[00:13:14] Justin Kendall: Who will the Plain White Teas partner up with?
[00:13:17] Jessica Infante: Ooh, I'm shocked they haven't. If Fall Out Boy were an RTD, what would they be? One of them has to be like one of the Arizona Hearts or something. Oh.
[00:13:31] Justin Kendall: Which fledgling alcoholic brand will you partner your favorite emo band with? Let us know.
[00:13:37] Speaker 1: All right, well, thanks for coming on this adventure.
[00:13:39] Justin Kendall: Yeah, thanks for taking us there. I'd buy one round.
[00:13:43] Speaker 1: Right, I would try one. Yeah. On the beach, four or five, great. Love that for me. You know, as before we started recording, we talked about Crystal Light Vodka Refreshers at 3.8% ABV. I feel like we talked about this the last time when they came out, and I was skeptical, but I think they have won me over with the Millennial Moms reference in the press release, and I'm on board. Excited to try the new raspberry flavor, and that was my favorite of the Crystal Lights.
[00:14:07] Justin Kendall: Seems like a lot's directed at Millennial Moms at the moment here.
[00:14:12] Speaker 1: We're going through a lot, let me tell you.
[00:14:14] Justin Kendall: All-American Rejects're playing some hits here.
[00:14:18] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. Hollister wants to come back and make mom-sized polos. No, we don't need that. Nobody needs that.
[00:14:27] Justin Kendall: All right. Well, let's get to our featured interviews. The National Beer Wholesalers Association recently wrapped its annual legislative conference. MBWA President and CEO Craig Purser is joining us now to discuss how the conference went, recent middle tier consolidation, and a lot more hot topics. So Craig, thanks for jumping on with us.
[00:14:51] Speaker 3: Well, thanks for having me. Jess and Justin, it's always a pleasure to be with you guys. Obviously, we were sorry to miss you at the legislative conference, but this little industry can support more than one thing at a time. And I talked to our friends from BA and it sounds like they had a great meeting as well last month.
[00:15:08] Justin Kendall: a complete vibe shift.
[00:15:10] Speaker 3: Totally. Yeah. And vibe is the thing. I mean, that's exactly right. We're vibing. Our meeting had a little bit more optimism, a little bit more kind of healthy outlook. I think one of the things we look at, we always try to look at what's happening out there. And when we see an improvement, what maybe has happened? And, you know, it's the first week of the year of 2026 was the long awaited guidance from the U.S. dietary guidelines that were released. And, you know, I think we were all kind of collectively as a bidder, not just the beer industry, but the alcohol industry as a whole. We're real pleased with the kind of the outcome of that. And that kind of gave us an opportunity to maybe turn the page on what was 2025.
[00:15:54] Justin Kendall: When did you get a sense that the winds were changing on this? You know, we went from, what was it, two drinks for a man and one drink for a woman to a basic guidance of, you know, just watch yourself.
[00:16:08] Speaker 3: when you're trying to talk about alcohol and health, you're always trying to have room for both sides of the argument, or maybe all sides of the argument. Some folks believe that the two-in-one was too prescriptive, and it might send a wrong message that somehow, and remember that guidance, that previous guidance, was not to exceed from a daily standpoint. And, you know, some of the critics said that's too prescriptive. That allows people to maybe count their drinks differently. And, you know, it may enable binge drinking. That was some of the criticism from one side. The other side was, wait a minute, you know, live and let live. Buyer beware. The consumer knows that there is harm from too much alcohol consumption. And I think at the end of the day, I think that's what the government looked at this time and said, you know, maybe we don't need to be as prescriptive. And when you look at some of the other guidance that was part of the overall review in other foods and beverages, they were maybe a little bit less prescriptive than they've been in the past. You know, obviously, we are well aware of the fact that alcohol can cause problems. We know it can tear families apart. We know that there are some folks that should not consume alcohol full stop. But we also know that there are folks that, you know, where alcohol can be part of an active lifestyle, it can be a great source of enjoyment. And for us, it pays the bills and reminds us of some of the greatest things that we get to do with each other.
[00:17:36] Speaker 1: Well, you bringing that up, I think is a great segue into just the overall health of the category. I know that's something that your organization was working with the other trade groups on and how we can really bring the focus back to beer. The category obviously is vast, but in terms of thinking about core beer, you really had an initiative going, bringing a lot of marketing experts together. As we go into the summer, what's up with that?
[00:17:58] Speaker 3: Well, that group is continuing to collaborate, and that's maybe an intentional word that I'll use because this industry is great at competition. I mean, every single weekend and week out, the brands do battle, the segments do battle. You know, even beer versus wine and spirits is a thing. And we realize when a consumer comes together with others or decides that they're going to enjoy an alcohol product, that whole idea of choice and variety is a huge part of this. But what we've been able to do as it relates to our beer first effort is bring some of the best and brightest marketers together to collaborate and to share ideas. And, you know, we are big believers in under promising and over delivering and anything and everything that we've done. So we've been very intentional about not over talking this then. But it has been fantastic to watch some of these people that, you know, seven days a week are working to compete with one another, to come together and say, here's some things that we can do, some things that we have in common, and here are some ways that we can work together to actually sell the beer category. You know, distributors have been doing this for a while. We've had a number of tools that are on our website. Folks can go to nbwabeerfirst.org and see some of those sales tools that are really designed for the distributor sales professional to go into a retail account and sell beer first. But kind of for the next iteration and what we're working on right now, like I said, is getting together with those representatives of the top suppliers to kind of share some wisdom. And I think we're having some good successes. There'll be more to come as the summer progresses. But I've just been pleasantly surprised at the ability of folks to check their brand hats at the door and come together. And that includes representatives of the Beer Institute and the Brewers Association and brands big and small.
[00:19:57] Speaker 1: Your members have been so good at what they do at selling beer and, you know, everything that goes along with it, where it's draft service or serving the cold box that wine and spirits manufacturers really have wanted to get in on it. And we've seen a lot of brands from those segments enter your members, but then we've also seen a lot of historically wine and spirits oriented beer wholesalers want to start selling beer. When you look at this landscape, what does it tell you?
[00:20:24] Speaker 3: Well, I don't know, man. It feels like a Freaky Friday reboot to me. I mean, you know, it really is something when you watch how much change that there is that's taken place. And, you know, and I think that part of what we're watching is that the independent beer and beverage distribution system works. It's a great way for folks to go to market. And the whole idea of established long-time beer distributor owners and operators are making significant changes. I think it was 2023, this is most recent of the big changes, when Sazerac moved their business in 18 different states to beer distributors. That kind of, from a recent standpoint, set off this round of change. And I have a slide that I share in some of my presentations that kind of, to me, illustrates this. We look at the spirits segment, we look at the Commonwealth of Kentucky, They call the bourbon industry the native industry in Kentucky, and they're extremely proud of that. But when you talk about this change, an example is that if five years ago I just said, hey, okay, in Kentucky, statewide, the Anheuser-Busch distributor in Lexington is going to be the statewide distributor of Sazerac, you'd say that's crazy. And if I said Molson Coors legacy distributor in Louisville, Kentucky is going to have the entire book of Brown Foreman statewide, you'd say I'm crazy. But both of those are facts now. So there's just a tremendous amount of change. A lot of people that are putting on a different jersey than they were previously wearing. I think the industry is very well aware of the changes to the RNDC model. that is taking place with breakneck speed. It's a gigantic surprise. Harry this morning had interesting coverage. It's gradual, it's gradual, and then it's all at once. I think that was a Hemingway reference, but that's exactly where we are right now. And that has set up an opportunity for a lot of market participants to pick up new products. And that's true for legacy beer distributors, and I think that's also true for legacy wine and spirits distributors.
[00:22:41] Justin Kendall: With the RNDC piece, it's a lot like the college transfer portal where you've got this rush of brands into the market and they're all moving and they're all jockeying for position. But on the other side, you've got Southern Glazers Wine and Spirits picking up Anheuser-Busch distribution in major markets. And I'll credit Harry with this. I think he pointed out some of this may be the franchise protections of Malt. Do you view it that way as a reason to get in?
[00:23:15] Speaker 3: I really do because for so many recent years, there has just been a big disagreement on the whole notion of the value of franchise as it relates to the beer segment. And we've had a lot of, over the years, a lot of just disagreement about the value of those laws and what they do. But I think what we can agree on is they do provide a different kind of order. And I don't know if the Wine and Spirits model, if franchise had been more of the rule of the day, whether you would see RNDC exit so many marketplaces, so many states like they did. I don't think that they would. I think it would be a little bit more orderly. I always point out to folks that even if you're a critic of the franchise system, the whole idea is you can get out from under a distribution agreement. For one thing, there's not a state in the country that doesn't allow termination for specific non-performance. And we watch brands transact in franchise states in the beer industry all the time. So there's a lot of that that's taken place. But it is interesting because, you know, those models are different. And the wine and spirits industry up until now has been much more concentrated at distribution. There are far more market participants, more choices for manufacturers when it comes to beer. And, you know, that's just going to be an interesting part of what continues to evolve, you know, in this case, really, really rapidly. But I will say one thing, Justin, because you used the transfer portal. The thing that's different about this dynamic is you have an entire program that is a shadow of its former self. You had a D1 level top five or, you know, perennial top five, and it is going to go down and play D3. And so it's a program, not an athlete that's making a move.
[00:25:17] Justin Kendall: When we look at the entire landscape too, I mean, you see the R and D.C. divestments, you see Reyes, Columbia, Martin Yeti, others swooping into this breakthrough. And then we talk about Southern Glazers and AB, but then you've got Keg One that's also making moves and investments. And it feels like the balance of power has very much shifted in this industry and there are a lot of bigger players that are getting bigger. And I'm curious what that means for some of the smaller distributors and houses out there and where they sit at this moment in your eyes.
[00:25:53] Speaker 3: Well, it's interesting because I think part of what the manufacturers, plural, are going to need to do is watch this and watch this very closely because I think there was a wisdom or a belief up until three years ago that bigger was absolutely better. And especially in the liquor and wine segment, those distribution models and those manufacturers had gone to market, building such scale and such influence with fewer distributors that they believed that that was the way that things needed to be. I think as you talk to some of the suppliers that are maybe going from a statewide, and I'm talking about Wine and Spirits more specifically now, that are made the move from a statewide, pick on the state of Texas, where a number of beer distributors have picked up different liquor brands. And some of those suppliers are seeing great success because, you know, just picking on state like Texas, you know, El Paso is a very, very different marketplace than Austin. And Brownsville down in the Rio Grande Valley is very different than Denton in what previously has been a North Texas exurb of Dallas that's just exploded with organic growth that all of a sudden isn't happening as quickly and as fast as it was happening. There's still growth up there, but it wasn't 10, 15% a year like it was for a number of places. So I think that's going to be really interesting to watch. And particularly for these liquor and wine brands, are they going to be wedded to the big, big, bigs? Or are they going to see that value in that smaller distributor? that understands that more local marketplace and that that's a way to go to market. Certainly beer has seen some of that. And of course, there's been consolidation, there's economies of scale, and there's different ways to line up with your partners to go to market. But just when you think you've got to figure it out, something changes. And I'm gonna have to think more about the transfer portal, because it's an interesting kind of way to think about it.
[00:28:03] Justin Kendall: I like the way you put it though, you know, you've got a program that's going down a level or whatever, and I'd almost liken it to you've got a program that committed money to players and then didn't pay them. Allegedly.
[00:28:18] Speaker 3: But let's look at some of the big wine and spirits companies in the way that they've changed their business over the last 20 years. They outsourced a lot of their sales functions to those distributors. And those distributors have a division and a brand president in a lot of places. And with this latest, what now is just still months long kind of dynamic with RNDC, it's like, wait a minute, hold the phone. Nobody saw this coming exactly like this. Maybe we need to rethink that. I do think that that's a part of what all suppliers want is they want more focus. They want more attention. And I mean that for beer wine and spirits and I mean that for folks of all sizes. But the healthy system you guys have heard me say this before is one that's built on balance. And not everybody gets everything that they want, but you get to a place where everybody can win. And that's a healthy distribution book that is executing for those suppliers, you know, to help everybody get what they want. Make no mistake about it. We can't, you know, with this maybe first five months of the year kind of signs of green shoots and beer and optimism. Make no mistake about it. We are far from out of the woods. This is not easy. This is a very difficult time. And, you know, when you do look at the exit of a big distributor, you know, you see all kinds of things that we ever could imagine, like, you know, suppliers not getting paid. and mass layoffs and you see all of this disruption. It is interesting because that franchise model provides maybe a buttress or a bulwark to that giant potential for disruption.
[00:30:05] Speaker 1: I'm glad you mentioned how suppliers of all sizes across all categories are affected here. I assume smaller suppliers are watching all of this unfold with a huge sense of unease. How should they be working with your members to ensure success during this time of consolidation? What tax should they really be taking here?
[00:30:23] Speaker 3: I think they've got to stick to their knitting and they've got to innovate. It's just like anything else. They've got to continue to make the case and remind their customer, the distributor, but more importantly, their customer, the consumer, why they're relevant. What is it that distinguishes their brand from others? And we're watching that happen with some success. I mean, we're watching some of the mid-majors really pour it on and see some growth against a backdrop of just, there's no nice way to say it. It's just shitty, it's hard, it's headwinds, it's rough. So you've got to continue to determine your relevance, but you gotta be offering something that's also new and innovative. I try not to pick on suppliers specifically, but with the juice force franchise with New Belgium, the way that they're differentiating, they're providing something that wasn't there previously and something that a consumer didn't know that they necessarily needed, but they're responding to a marketplace whole. And so it's doing that kind of thing while you're also helping your partner weather the storm. Cause I think that's, you know, that's kind of where we're at. I mean, it's like a, it's like a Bob Dylan song, you know, shelter from the storm and that's freaking song goes on forever and ever. And there's just another verse and you think it's over and you think it's over. And then you hear another lyric and you're like, oh yeah, that's, that's great. Shelter from the storm. I'm totally mixing my analogies here, but.
[00:31:50] Justin Kendall: Are you ready to get lit, Craig?
[00:31:52] Speaker 3: I'm ready to get lit, baby. Yeah. I mean, anyway, so drink up America.
[00:31:59] Speaker 1: Yeah, well, speaking of innovation, something that we can't escape from, no matter how hard I keep trying, is THC-infused beverages. And it's complicated, it's confusing. I forced myself to write a story about the landscape about a year ago so I would understand it, and I'm really glad I did that. But many of your members are carrying them, and we seem to be heading to an existential cliff. So how are members viewing these products and the uncertainty around them?
[00:32:25] Speaker 3: I think it kind of depends on what side of the aisle you're on. Have you made the investment to build these products out? Where do you think this thing is headed? I can't recall a dynamic like this where we've seen, you know, where you're given a timestamp in a, you know, an exit, you know, and if Congress doesn't do anything, in a sense, I think most of these products will go away or they're going to be very different. But it is super unclear. You know, we do a survey of our members twice annually, and we did share this with folks at the legislative conference. You know, they are literally split down the middle as far as kind of their attitude toward these and whether or not they're carrying the products and, you know, kind of where they want to see it go. We've been very honest with the hemp manufacturers. I mean, a number of these folks are very responsible. Some of them are not. And some of them talk a good game about regulation. And they really don't care. And they say, regulate us like alcohol. And then they oppose any kind of regulatory solution, primarily at the state level, that looks like alcohol. And that's very, very frustrating when you're trying to help a group of manufacturers find their way. And I say that as it relates to the fact that there is a market for these products in some places. And we have watched some states do the hard work to get some regulation established. But we said a couple of things in following the November congressional action on this. We said, we're very honest. We said, the first thing you've got to do, and this is to the hemp manufacturers, is you've got to define your category. And, you know, that to me still has not been done. There has not been consensus reached by those manufacturers about any kind of a milligram cap, which I think many policymakers would welcome. They haven't been able to come together and rally around something. There are still a group of folks out there that say, oh, give no quarter. Absolutely not. We should be able to make large formats with multiple servings. And it's not reading the policy room from my perspective. The second thing we suggested that they do was repudiate some of the crappy, trashy products that are out there. that very, very clearly are not being marketed responsibly. And that includes some of the edibles, that includes some of the knockoff snack brands. Some of the beverages, the vast majority of them, I think, are being marketed responsibly. But neither one of those things have happened. And I wish I had a crystal ball. I wish I could advise everybody that calls, here's what we know is going to happen because we don't know. But it's clear as mud. There is some positives if you're on that side of the aisle. There are some policymakers that are serious about regulation, and we're watching those proposals closely.
[00:35:14] Speaker 1: That's some wild behavior for people whose products are on death row.
[00:35:19] Speaker 3: I hear you, and I think everybody's just trying to find their way, but to your point, you make a good point.
[00:35:26] Justin Kendall: You're plugged in though, so if you had to gut check it, what do you think's going to happen when we get to November?
[00:35:33] Speaker 3: It's going to be really hard unless that definition comes together from the industry. I think that's going to be really, really hard to see Congress do anything differently. I mean, you guys have watched it at the state level. You know, you'll watch a piece of policy coming together where there are a lot of stakeholders together that are on board with this. It makes sense. And then there's nothing. And then you've seen some states where there's been positive progress, but Part of what we've also told these folks is if you're interested in an extension, you've got to show your work. You know, it's final season. I've got my youngest is third year student and he's going through finals right now. I'm like, dude, you can't ask for an extension unless you show your professor that you've done some of the work. So Justin, I wish I wish I could make book. I wish I could make a prediction. I wish I could make news for you guys, but I can't do it.
[00:36:27] Justin Kendall: Yeah. You don't want to set those calci markets off.
[00:36:30] Speaker 3: Right. Exactly right. Might just bet on myself.
[00:36:36] Justin Kendall: Well, Craig, we appreciate you hopping on with us. Thanks for doing this.
[00:36:41] Speaker 3: Awesome guys. Appreciate you very much. Cheers.
[00:36:45] Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Brewbound podcast on location studio here on the trade show floor at Brew Expo America at Craft Brewers Conference in lovely Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. It's Brewbound managing editor and podcast co-host Jessica Infante and I am So thrilled about our next guest. And I find it funny that we both had to come all the way to Philly to meet for the first time because we're basically neighbors in Massachusetts. And we have with us today Deepa Chungi, director of programming from Aeronaut Brewing in Somerville, Mass. How are you doing? I'm doing very well. Thank you. Great. Well, I'm so glad you're here. You know, I reached out to you because I thought that the seminar you gave yesterday sounded really interesting and really relevant for our audience. You and Evently were speaking about, you know, how to drive extra revenue through, you know, event programming and all sorts of stuff like that.
[00:37:36] Speaker 4: Can you give us a little rundown of what you guys covered? You know, the premise is you have a brewery. You're paying rent on that brewery every day. It should be full every day. And what are the ways that you can get people in the door in a way that makes sense for you and your staff, that you can plan around, and that you have the control over. So we talked about, you know, one of the first steps of doing that is you have this great space. How do you get people in the door naturally? So we talked about making it a third space, having programming that brings people in, and that could be anything from free music that people want to hear. We do jazz every Thursday, and that's become a standing thing. We do music on Sunday afternoons, too, that people come in to hear. We have trivia. A lot of people do that. You could do karaoke. And these are weekly things that bring people in. Then there are the larger events that you'd want to do, your Oktoberfests, your Spring Flings, your Fall Fests, your anniversary parties, that kind of showcase the space in a way that shows people, this is where I want to be. This is where I want to hang out. And then the next step is, oh, I need a place to hang out for my birthday. My sister's having a baby and I need a room for a baby shower. I don't want to rent a restaurant room. I don't want to go to a hotel and do something stuffy. Where can I go? Oh, my brewery has a space that I saw at Trivia last week. And then that kind of gets people to think of your space as their space. you are essential of their living room. I mean, coming from Somerville, everyone lives in these tiny apartments. They don't have the space to have like a 20-person birthday party. So they need a place to do that. And you can become that person for them, become that space for them, just by being a cool brewery that you kind of already are doing already.
[00:39:22] Speaker 1: I literally just did this for my husband's 40th birthday. You know, we got together at our local brewery and It was a pretty easy process. And, you know, I just worked with their events manager and figured it all out. And everybody had a great time. Like, love how you mentioned you think people don't necessarily want to rent restaurants or spaces at hotels. And a brewery is a really, like, fun, casual option.
[00:39:43] Speaker 4: Right. And you're not locked into a menu and you're not locked into, oh, I need to get a three course, whatever. A lot of places just let you order pizza to the brewery. You know, you don't even have to use their menu or if they do, it's pretty straightforward. So I think that breweries are a natural place to open themselves up to event planning. The issue is usually breweries have one or two people who are doing everything. They are brewing. They are running. They are managing the staff. They're worrying about distribution. They're wearing a lot of hats. So you're getting emails being like, hey, do you Do you do private events? Now, if that, you're getting 10 of those a week, but you're getting 50 other emails that day that are fires.
[00:40:26] Speaker 1: Nightmare.
[00:40:27] Speaker 4: Yeah. You're not going to go to those people and be like, Oh, let me get back to you. I'll get back to them in two days. I'll get back to them tonight. They have already moved on. They have emailed 10 places asking about whether they do private events and eight of those places probably already got back to them by the time you get back to them. So what we're running into is people who are wearing too many hats are just have a one email on their website that's like, oh, contact us if you have any questions. And then they get the, do you do private events? Now, if you start that thread, that could be 10 emails back and forth by the time you are like, how many people do you want? When do you want to come in? And then what time do you want to come in? So, you know, we talked about how to have systems in place to avoid that slog of emails that you're getting and dealing with. And the problem is most of the people who are putting these are planners. And so they don't want to wait two days for a response. They have already moved on. You know, one of the things we talked about also was having systems in place, like where is it on your website that you do private events? Is it easy for someone to see your pricing on the website? Is it easy for them to be like, this is in my price range. I'm going to move forward or it's confusing or I don't know, I need to email them. And now you're in this email slog. So, you know, signaling to people that you do do private events. Having your pricing really front and center on what you're capable of doing and when you can do it. And then having some kind of intake form or something right on the website where they can send you all of their information and you're not doing this back and forth. So getting those systems in place really make your life a lot easier as you're opening up your private events program.
[00:42:02] Speaker 1: And Evently helps with a lot of that, right? Yes. How long have you guys been working with them?
[00:42:06] Speaker 4: So we've been working with them since October. Cool. And what's great about Evently is, say I was getting 100 emails about events, I was being ghosted by 80 of them. because people are just looking for information. They just want to be like, do you do these? Are you free this day? What is the minimum cost? What is the tip situation? So, eventually, you can go right into their website, put in a date, put in a time, put a number of people in, and it spits out a number, and they can see the whole cost right there. They can see whether it's available the day they want. And that has cut down my emails substantially because now I'm only getting little nitty-gritty emails, and then they book.
[00:42:44] Speaker 1: I love this for you.
[00:42:45] Speaker 4: Yes, I love this for me too.
[00:42:48] Speaker 1: Because I remember when I was like, you know, looking through seminars that were happening and then I noticed Evently is Boston-based too, right?
[00:42:54] Speaker 4: It is, yeah. So that works out really well. But they're really branching out. They're kind of, I mean, they're here talking to people and a lot of it is, you know, it's nice that they're down the street, but I think, you know, they can do it from anywhere. Totally. Now, do they help you at all with your other regular programming? So not yet. I think one of the things that we had been doing separately from the private events is table reservations. And we take a lot of table reservations. So even when we started Evently for the private events, I was still managing table reservations in a different system. they just added table reservations to their platform, so now everything's in one place, which is great. And that's been a really nice streamlining process for me as well. That's really helpful. Yeah.
[00:43:32] Speaker 1: I wanna get into the other events that you mentioned, like your weekly occurring things, like trivia, and do you do a book club?
[00:43:39] Speaker 4: So what I found is I am good at managing large-scale events, but there's no reason for me to be a marketplace vendor coordinator. or a book club organizer. So, Aeronaut's been really good about finding partners in the community. I love that. To run that. So, you know, I reached out to a couple of marketplace vendors and I'm like, you know the vendors in this area. You know who's good and bad. Good actors, bad actors. You organize it and run it in our space. So, it's kind of a win-win. Same with the Summerville Public Library. They run the book club. Oh, that's awesome. You know, Lectures on Tap comes in. We have It's a Date. which is a dating show that comes in. Pitch a friend comes in and they bring their audiences to our space. So we're giving them a place to be for free and they get a space and then we get to introduce their audience to our space, which is really nice.
[00:44:33] Speaker 1: What do you notice about revenue on those nights?
[00:44:36] Speaker 4: Obviously a boost, right? Of course. Even on Monday, two days ago, we had a 100-person line on Monday to get in for Pitch a Friend, and it just fills the space, and we were at capacity by 7 o'clock. That's nuts. Yeah. There are certain events that really fill up the space very reliably.
[00:44:54] Speaker 1: I think people are familiar with the usual suspects, like run clubs and trivia, but for people who don't know Pitch a Friend, can you explain it a little bit?
[00:45:01] Speaker 4: It's in a lot of cities right now. And it's basically, it's a group of people who come and they're like, date my friend. And this is why they're so awesome. And it's a PowerPoint presentation on why their friend is so lovely and datable. And then their number pops up at the end. And you can call them up or meet them there at the event. So you can go up to them afterwards and be like, hey, I loved your slide. And friends really get to boost other friends up. It's really funny. It sounds really fun. Yeah, it's fun. Do you know how many successful couples have come out of this?
[00:45:34] Speaker 1: You guys should have like a Valentine's Day party for all of them.
[00:45:38] Speaker 4: For all the successful couples. We did, not Pitch a Friend, but we did The Dating Game, and that I did with Boston B-Side, and it was like three people on one side of the cart and then one on the other. That was also very successful, and there were some, can I say this, trips to the bathroom after. Oh boy. I know. So there were some successful matches after that one. So I think you could see in real time it was happening. Yeah.
[00:46:02] Speaker 1: Wow. Congratulations, I guess. There's like a wedding venue where a few of my friends have gotten married and they always host, I think they call it something cheesy, like the king and queen ball, but all of their couples are invited back for a Valentine's Day party. And they've also started doing like a Santa breakfast. So all the married couples come with their kids.
[00:46:21] Speaker 4: Which is just a nice way to remind people, like, hey, you had a great time with us. I mean, we have seen a lot of requests for engagement parties at Aeronaut, where they're like, we had our first date there, and now we want to celebrate our engagement. And I always say there's no refund if she says no. You still have to come. You still have to meet that minimum alone. No, everyone has said yes for these engagement parties. And we're seeing a lot of wedding welcome drinks for people who have You know, met or dated at Aeronaut, and now they want to have like their first night of their wedding weekend. You know, we're not the reception place, but we're the gathering place for them. Do you do any weddings? We've done some weddings. I think not wedding weddings where the ceremony's there, but like an after the courthouse. Oh, nice, nice. And that's been really nice, yeah.
[00:47:07] Speaker 1: That is, I just, I, having planned a wedding, I can only assume hosting a wedding is a huge undertaking. And I know some breweries do it, but I also totally understand why some breweries might not want to do it.
[00:47:19] Speaker 4: Yes, definitely something to talk about with your managers and staff before you take on something like that. It's a big undertaking that has a lot of unique needs.
[00:47:27] Speaker 1: How do you engage the taproom staff when all these different events are going on?
[00:47:30] Speaker 4: We have a system for our front of house team and I, you know, I kind of lay out everything that's happening that day. And then I meet with my managers and my security team about once a week. And we go through the next week and be like, this is going to be a busy day. This is going to be a busy day. And with my GM, I'll do that way far out. So when he does the scheduling, he knows. I'll tell him when I'm making the event, I need two extra bodies this day. We're going to hit a line today, maybe another security, so that there's a lot of planning around staffing for these events so nobody's caught. Nobody's surprised. Just in the weeds. Right. Exactly.
[00:48:04] Speaker 1: And how do you work with production on this in terms of making sure you certain beers are available?
[00:48:08] Speaker 4: Is that a concern at all? Yep. I meet with my production team twice a month, and we kind of look ahead to see, you know, what do we want to do? We did a Dungeons & Dragons event, and they were so excited, and they brewed a Dungeons & Dragons beer for that event. I love this. You know, obviously, St. Patrick's Day, we plan ahead. We have a Pride beer, our anniversary beer. So those are all Oktoberfest. Those are all discussions we have, like when how much, when are things are coming in, and plan around that. It's an ongoing conversation with all parts of the team to make sure these go well.
[00:48:39] Speaker 1: What events surprised you in terms of how successful they ended up being?
[00:48:43] Speaker 4: I'd say our anniversary, this is my fourth year. Oh, congrats. I've done, thank you, I've done three anniversaries and they've all rained out. Oh no. It's been raining those three days. What time of year? June.
[00:48:53] Jessica Infante: Oh yeah.
[00:48:53] Speaker 4: I know, it's tough. June is soft lately. I know, it's tough. But people still come out and I think that like they're really excited about the brand, they're really excited about, you know, our presence in the community and they want to celebrate that. And even though it's not on the patio in this big party, it's in the top room and it's crowded and kind of stinky because everyone's wet, everyone still has a good time. And I think, you know, that was such a nice surprise, especially last year. We had a really good turnout. I was really happy to see that. Yeah.
[00:49:17] Speaker 1: My daughter's birthday is in June, so I'm always attuned to like, is it going to rain? Is it going to rain?
[00:49:21] Speaker 4: When can we have her party? Mine's in October. Oh, God.
[00:49:23] Speaker 1: It always rains. Yeah. Well, definitely do not come to my town for your birthday party.
[00:49:27] Speaker 4: No, I will not. I will not.
[00:49:28] Speaker 1: It's bonkers. Wow. Well, what advice would you give brewers who are just looking to start? I feel like you don't want to, like, go, like, you know, zero to 90 and have seven events a week.
[00:49:39] Speaker 4: Correct. I would say, you know, start, like, see what your audience wants. Like, what are they interested in? If you're a big, if you have a lot of local musicians, you know, showcase them, you know, for free and, you know, pay the musicians, but don't charge people to come in. you know, that draws them in. If you're a big foodie place, you know, have, you know, if you can legally have vendors come in and kind of showcase their words and that brings people in. And I think the biggest thing, you know, from a ramping up your private events standpoint is really have some systems in place that streamline the process. So you're not being bogged down by details and emails all the time, because they can take over your life. And what's the best way to get the word out?
[00:50:16] Speaker 1: I know I see a lot of frustration about whether or not social is working for craft brewers. What's your strategy?
[00:50:21] Speaker 4: I mean, we do a lot of social media. We have a newsletter, which I think is great. And at the bottom of the newsletter, we say we take private events, every newsletter. But I would say signs in the bathroom, signs on the door, signs near your private event space. We're like, book this space. I think meeting people where they are in your taproom, and they're like, oh, this room is for rent. I will keep that in mind, you know, the QR code there, and just make sure there's a lot of signage on the tables, at the bar, and make sure your bar staff also knows that you book private events and where they can go when they get questions.
[00:50:53] Speaker 1: That's so helpful. Well, Deepa, this has been delightful. I'm really glad we had this chat, and hopefully we can have a beer at home en masse sometime soon. Thank you. It was very nice meeting you. So nice to meet you, too. And that's our show for this week. Thank you for listening. The Brewbound Podcast is a production of BevNET CPG. Our audio engineer for the Brewbound Podcast is Joe Cracci. Our technical director is Joshua Pratt and our video editor is Ryan Galang. Our social marketing manager is Amanda Smerlinski. Our designer is Amanda Huang. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with your colleagues and friends and review us on your listening platform of choice. You can find our work at Brewbound.com. And we also welcome feedback and suggestions at podcast at Brewbound.com. On behalf of the entire Brewbound podcast team, thank you for listening. We'll be back next week.
