[00:00:00] Jessica Infante: Hear from FXMAT Brewing President Fred Matt next on the Brewbound Podcast. Hello and welcome back to another episode of the Brew Bound Podcast. I am one of your co-hosts, Jessica Infante. And I'm your other co-host today, Zoe Licata. Zoe, it's Girls Week again. Again. Justin is not with us this week, but he should be back in, you know, I don't even want to make any predictions about when Justin will be back in the studio. He's been busy.
[00:00:35] Zoe Licata: Yeah.
[00:00:35] Jessica Infante: How are you doing?
[00:00:37] Zoe Licata: Good. I didn't think about it. I was like, how am I doing? I'm glad that we finally got some warm summer weather here, even though it's, you know, following typical New England patterns. It feels like summer. Finally.
[00:00:51] Jessica Infante: It does. I'm so happy about that. And you know when else it hopefully it will feel like summer? Yeah. On December 10th and 11th in beautiful Los Angeles, California. What goes on then, Zoe?
[00:01:04] Zoe Licata: Yeah, that is Brewbound Live. So we will be back in December. So if you're one of those folks like we are that's dealing with the not so great December weather, Take an escape, go to Marina Del Rey and enjoy that California weather. It's a good time. Get to network, get to meet lots of folks or see folks you haven't seen for maybe since last Brewbound Live. Hear lots of fun content on stage, have one-to-one meetings with retailers, distributors. There's so much that goes on and we're planning it all out right now. We are, yeah.
[00:01:35] Jessica Infante: We should definitely be set to make some speaker announcements really soon because we've had a bunch of conversations with people who are all psyched to join us and I can't wait to tell everybody else about them. So keep an eye on Brewbound.com and obviously on this pod and you will get all the news, but we would be thrilled to have you. A couple other things you'll find on Brewbound.com, probably one of the most comprehensive job boards in the beverage alcohol industry, if I do say so myself, great place to post a listing if you're looking to hire or if you're looking for a job. And we also have... We don't talk about this one enough, but we should. We have a really great newswire that is completely free to use for suppliers in the industry. Great way to just get your information out there. There's also premium options to get a couple more bells and whistles going on your press releases, but great way to share your news with the world. And all of that is on BruteBound.com, as is the news. Yeah, the news does not stop. Never. Where do you want to start?
[00:02:38] Zoe Licata: I think we should start with some of the stuff happening with GABF because this is a lot of exciting changes that's going to be relevant for any of you folks listening on this podcast. So Jess, you talked to some of the folks at the BA and dove into everything that's happening. What is new about GABF this year that we haven't even talked about yet?
[00:02:59] Jessica Infante: Before we even dive into all of that, this is a super Brewers Association heavy episode this week because I have a story up about the Great American Beer Festival. You have one about microbreweries and our featured guest is Fred Matt, who is obviously the president. I'm pretty sure that's Fred's title at FX Matt Brewing, which his family has run for over a hundred years. But Fred's also the board chairman of the Brewers Association Board of Directors this term. He and I chatted at Craft Brewers Conference in Philly. I think this is the last of our CBC interviews. So you'll hear that later in this episode, but he's just like overall a super nice human being. So excited for you guys to hear that. He and I chatted a lot about what's up with the BA, what's up with his company. But as for new news right now, yeah, we do have a story up about the Great American Beer Festival, GABF. It is moving outdoors entirely for the first time in its 40 plus year history. I spoke with BA, VP of Marketing and Communications and Open Chain last week. Just because, I mean, I've been to JABF a bunch as a brewery employee and a bunch as a brew bound employee. So I've seen it from a couple of different sides. So when I was reading the brewer information on their website, I was like, oh wow, a lot of stuff is different here. So let's get into it. The number of breweries pouring is almost half of what it was last year, but that itself is almost half of what it was 10 years ago. I did a little bit of a deep dive into some GABF history, found a story that Brewbound had printed in 2015. So that would be a decade before, you know, the last one that you and I attended in October. And there were more than 750 breweries pouring then. Last year in the BA's GABF by the numbers report, there were just under 400 breweries pouring. So obviously the event's gotten a lot smaller and the BA announced in January that they were making a really big change and moving it out of the Colorado Convention Center right in downtown Denver to Levitt Pavilion, which is a park in Denver that's a little bit outside of downtown. And we all kind of, I feel like we saw the news break and we were like, Oh, that's cool. It's different. It makes sense. Something needed to change. Cause you know, after 40 years and 25 years in the convention center, it was, it was definitely time for them to make a change, but I wasn't expecting them to make such a big one though. I don't know what I would have thought they would have done.
[00:05:25] Zoe Licata: Yeah, I don't know. But a lot of these changes, and we'll get into all of them, seem to be going back to kind of old iterations of the festival or going back to its super craft beer heavy roots. There's changes to what can be poured, where it is. The award ceremony is changing. There's a whole bunch that is kind of going backwards a little bit to kind of get back to what GABF used to be.
[00:05:49] Jessica Infante: Yeah. And I don't know that I can even say what is the biggest change because there's so many. But unlike last year where we saw spirits producers and RTD brands on the floor at the convention center, that is not returning. Brewers who do produce RTDs are welcome to pour them as one of the five beverages poured at their booths. But brewers being limited to five beers felt new to me. I don't know if rules are different for breweries with end caps. I'm not really sure how that part works. And I didn't ask Anne. I should have. But breweries and cideries who are members of the BA are welcome. The BA did a registration for brewers in two waves. To enter in the first wave, which has since closed, you were required to have won an award in the GABF competition or the World Beer Cup in the past five years, and you have to pour at least one award-winning product. Ann said this was their way to really call attention to the fact that these are the best breweries and cideries in the country, and these are their best products. So that was interesting. She said a lot of great feedback for that. The second wave, which is open right now, is open to members. So if you want to be there, you got to be a member. And registration for breweries is closing on June 26th, which is the day after tickets go on sale to the public. Tickets are a lot cheaper this year, which I think people would be excited about.
[00:07:07] Zoe Licata: Yeah, we all know that money is a question when it comes to anything happening with the consumer right now. So that will certainly help. Yeah, it's going to look totally different than last year. I mean, last year, inside the convention center, there was a whole section of just distilleries pouring straight spirits. There were multiple activations of RTD brands. There was all those themed areas with blow-up decorations, and it was just... A lot going on. And then this year is really just, it's simplified and it's smaller. It's really prioritizing, you know, we want folks to come here so that they can see what craft beer, the highest quality of what craft beer has to offer and really promote the segment itself. Part of that, they also are requiring folks to staff their own booths. So the breweries are going to have to be pouring their beers themselves. There's been hundreds of volunteers that have come in the past to do that. They want brewers to actually be staffing their booths so they can talk to folks coming over, talk about the beer so they can can learn about that. Selfishly, I think that's awesome because we always, when we're going up to breweries, have questions about products and it's not always able to be answered because it's a volunteer who's there to help pour. So this will be really interesting for us too.
[00:08:27] Jessica Infante: Yeah, and they've had a section at the convention center in the old days for a while that was called Meet the Brewer. That had went on for at least a decade where those breweries had to staff their booths with employees. This I'm sure is a bummer for the thousands of volunteers who have done this year after year after year, but there will still be some need for volunteers to help with other things. Anne said they're expecting to need about 220 volunteer shifts throughout the The three days that they will be on site, Friday for setup and a brewer's happy hour, Saturday and Sunday for the fest itself. There actually is going to be a shuttle, because that was a big question mark for us, was how are people going to get here? Because we noticed it was a little bit of a trek outside of downtown. Shuttle will be complimentary for brewers who are pouring and consumers can also buy passes to ride the shuttle round trip. For a little over $20, consumer tickets per day, the basic level for a consumer ticket started around $66 and change. So all in all, you're coming out a little bit less than the $95 per session consumer tickets were last year. So many changes, really exciting. Anne told me that there's a lot of breweries that are close to the park that are really excited for this. They're going to ramp up their activities and host events. So that is cool. The BA will be hosting a happy hour for brewers on Friday once everyone's done setting up. And all in all, I'm excited to see what it all looks like. And Paired will be back. Paired is the food and beer pairing component of the festival, which is like a more elevated experience. not too many changes there other than that it's outside as the whole thing is outside.
[00:10:00] Zoe Licata: Yep, connected to the festival outside. Also happening will be the awards ceremony. So normally that was an event that was only for brewers to attend. It was, was it ticketed? I don't know. I think maybe they had a wristband. It was an event that only brewers could go to and now they are going to have it outside of the same grounds as the festival space so that consumers can go there too and see what beers that they potentially tried over the weekend got awards. Yeah, and it's super jazzed about that. It should be different. It'll definitely be different. Everyone just pray to whatever weather god you believe in that the weather is perfect because it's going to be happening rain or shine.
[00:10:38] Jessica Infante: Dude, I'm not throwing my voice in that rain because I just attempted to throw a three-year-old's birthday party at a park on a Saturday in the end of May and the real field temperature that day was 26. So I think I just need to stay out of that conversation. Clearly, I'm just very bad luck. So yeah, I assume one of us at least will be there and then we'll fly out to Orlando for the National Beer Wholesalers Association Annual Convention. But yeah, really big changes.
[00:11:04] Zoe Licata: Big changes happening.
[00:11:06] Speaker 1: Mark your calendar. Brewbound Live is back on December 9th and 10th in Los Angeles. Join brewers, distributors, investors, suppliers, and industry partners for two days of beer and beverage alcohol conversations, fresh perspectives, and product discovery. Early registration pricing is available now. Head to brewboundlive.com to register.
[00:11:25] Zoe Licata: We have a couple other things on the website right now, continuing to dive into some of the BA's production data that has come out. So if you missed it, we have some corrected numbers that the BA sent over for total craft performance. So make sure you check that out if you haven't already. And then we have some new pieces coming onto the site. One about diving into what happened with microbreweries, which have been really hurt by just how hard it is to have a distro-based business right now, just with the amount of products that are on shelves, with distributor consolidation, and there's so much happening in that space. So we dive into all of the production numbers for the top 50 microbreweries, as well as some comments from Bart Watson and Matt Gasyak from the BA when it comes to microbreweries. And then also a more positive story looking at what's happening with hospitality focused breweries such as Taproom based and Brewpubs. They had a much better performance and they also, some of the just the businesses, specific businesses that fall under those categories had pretty impressive growth numbers. So two totally different trajectories of numbers happening for 2025. So make sure you dive into all of those and any other numbers we've previously posted because there is a lot to go through. How excited are you to be done with all of that? I am very excited. It is one of the most fun and one of the most daunting projects every year because it's just so many numbers and you're having to also compare how many of these breweries even still exist in the way that they were before since these numbers have come out with the amount of mergers we've seen or closures. So there's a lot of other context we have to continue to add. But it's also fun because we get to see some fun trends popping up with certain breweries and say, Hey, well, maybe we should, should talk to these folks because they've had now a couple of years of growth. So it's a fun way to be introduced or reintroduced to some folks out in the craft beer space. So going to be very happy to be done with the numbers, but looking forward to talking to some folks based on that, that project.
[00:13:24] Jessica Infante: I feel like this is such a laborious undertaking for you every year. And I'm sorry that it keeps falling to you, but I also think you kind of like it.
[00:13:31] Zoe Licata: It is a little masochistic of me, but I do kind of like it. It's fun to just live in the numbers world for a little bit. Have you drank anything good lately? Great question. I've been kind of boring with my beverage alcohol consumption lately. Also, a lot of THC beverages, which might be like me subconsciously saying, I need to try these before they may not exist anymore. That is totally possible. Yeah. But it's also, it's the season where whenever we can, we're trying to, you know, be outside and have a beverage. And so that calls for a lot of cocktails or a lot of Allagash White. How about you?
[00:14:10] Jessica Infante: Well, I went to a sold-out beer festival on Saturday.
[00:14:13] Zoe Licata: Oh, yeah.
[00:14:13] Jessica Infante: I don't think that's something that anybody can say in 2026. Yeah. Yet, Notch, which has a taproom in my hometown of Salem, Mass., but also one in the Brighton neighborhood of Boston, hosted their Forever Lager Festival this past Saturday. And they've done it for a few years now, and I've never gone, and I've always wanted to go. So finally, I needed a non-momming weekend day due to aforementioned rained-out toddler birthday party and all the other things that go along with your kid turning three. if you're crazy like I am. And I was like, you know what? Like, I'm going to go to Notch because one, Cora can't go. Two, my husband wouldn't want to go and therefore I wouldn't feel as guilty about ditching him. But I had a great time. Tried a lot of beers from all over the place. Soiree's family, the sea down in Atlantic City. I think it's funny how I get very excited for these beers from breweries that are much closer to your Jersey home. Right. But it was great. It was a really good time to just be out in the sunshine with a bunch of people who also like beer.
[00:15:10] Zoe Licata: It feels like there have been a lot more events happening around the city that are like beer sponsored or beer festival adjacent. There was like three different music festivals or beer festivals happening the same past weekend. Harpoon sponsored a, what was called Boston Chilling because Boston Calling, the big music festival that's usually here every summer is taking a hiatus this year. So they had their own more low-key festival that was free to attend. The official drink or sponsored drink was low-key, which is Harpoon's low ABV lager. Did you go? I did not go. The weather was hit or miss, so I wasn't going to risk it. But yeah, there's been tons of stuff happening. Folks are definitely taking heed to the calls for, hey, give us something else to do. Give us some experiences along with your beverages.
[00:16:00] Jessica Infante: Yeah. And I've noticed that everything kind of has a theme. I think we're past the days of general like beer festival, come here, drink a lot. Like there's like, you know, like a reason to believe in everything that's happening. Like, like not just Lagerfest, super curated and like very, very carefully like thought out. I actually, I didn't realize it was sold out until I was like on the train on my way and went to buy a ticket. Cause when you have a three-year-old life is unpredictable and you just kind of fly by the seat of your pants. Cause I didn't know if I was really ever going to get out of the house. And then all of a sudden I realized what was happening, panicked, texted our buddies at All About Beer who sponsored the event and said, Hey, it's sold out, but I'm on my way. Can I please still come? And John Hall said, yes, of course this is fine. So the most acceptable use of power, I think. Right? I never do something like that. So I felt okay about it. But if I wasn't able to sneak my way in, I guess I would have just taken a wander and put myself on the ferry back home, which would have been a great non-momming day as well.
[00:16:58] Zoe Licata: But nice to hear Beer Festival is still getting sold out in the year 2026. Who knew?
[00:17:03] Jessica Infante: Maybe that will happen for GABF. We'll find out. We will. All right. Well, here is our featured interview with Fred Matt. Hello and welcome back to the Brewbound podcast on location studio here on the trade show floor at Brew Expo America, part of Craft Brewers Conference. It is Brewbound Managing Editor and podcast co-host Jessica Infante, and I am absolutely psyched to have our next guest with us today. We have the one, the only Fred Matt, the president of FX Matt Brewing and the current Brewers Association Board of Directors Chairman. Fred, how are you?
[00:17:38] Fred Matt: I'm great. It is great to be here. It's great to see the energy here. And it's great to be with you, Jess.
[00:17:44] Jessica Infante: Well, it's great to be with you. I'm glad you brought up the energy because to me, it's it's really high. The vibes are good. People seem happy.
[00:17:50] Fred Matt: I think that there's a lot of energy. There's a lot of optimism. And, you know, as I say, as you delight your customer, they keep coming back. And I think everybody understands that we got to do that. And as you do that, you start seeing customers come back.
[00:18:03] Jessica Infante: I'm glad that you mentioned that because yesterday's keynote was really all about delighting the customer. And in hearing about what the speech was going to be, I had kind of a, almost a hard time imagining what somebody who has run 11 Madison Park can share with craft brewers. But I think you hit the nail on the head. There's lots of ways to implement things like that.
[00:18:22] Fred Matt: Yeah. And it's all touch points, as he talked about in touching your customer and your customer, you know, it can be your employee. It can be a distributor, retailer, you know, for us, the ultimately the consumer, but how you touch them and how they receive your product. And my philosophy is if you delight them and over deliver on the experience, they keep coming back. And I can tell you, we've always done that because we haven't. And when we do it, they keep coming back. And when they don't, they don't come back.
[00:18:49] Jessica Infante: Well, no one can do that every time, all the time. Especially, I mean, your family business has been open for?
[00:18:55] Fred Matt: 138.
[00:18:57] Jessica Infante: Oh my goodness. Wow. So, you know, I'm sure there's been a lot of times where you have delighted your customers. And I'm glad you brought this up because sometimes it's easy to lose sight of who the customer is because of how the industry works in the three tiers. So sometimes that's your distributor, sometimes it's a wholesaler, and sometimes it's a drinker. What have you found are ways to delight people across all three of those tiers?
[00:19:20] Fred Matt: Most importantly, I'd say, is you create a product that people want and they keep coming back. We've done that with Trailmix before, the Beer Ball, which everybody likes to bring up, Black and Tan, Jed's Hard Lemonade, our Saranac brand in general. One of the funny stories I like to tell about my dad was that when I came back to the brewery, we were really struggling. And after about three years of more struggle, he said to me, man, we finally got some good distributors. And I said, dad, they're all the same distributor. The difference is we got a hot brand. And the difference between a good distributor and a great distributor is a hot brand. And so that, you know, it's really on the brand owner to develop the energy behind the brand. And if you do that, most distributors, I will tell you out there, are going to do a great job.
[00:20:08] Jessica Infante: What are those conversations like when you've got the hot brand?
[00:20:11] Fred Matt: Well, when you get the hot brand, it's a lot of high-fiving and a lot of fun. When you don't, it's a lot of frustration that doesn't always manifest itself in the right ways. It doesn't become positive.
[00:20:23] Jessica Infante: You've been in and around this for a while, as you said, 138 years for the family business. There might be some craft brewers listening who are maybe having those tough conversations with wholesalers for the first time. What advice would you give them?
[00:20:38] Fred Matt: So I'd say a couple of things and this is 70% of the BA community is under a thousand barrels. And I would say, do what you do best. And I think what you do best mostly is stick to your tap rooms, build your business in your tap rooms, create the energy, have people take your beer from the tap room. They'll keep coming back. I think for all of us that are in the distribution business, We've got to understand that we've got to be more focused in what we bring to the distributor. We've got to create the energy at retail. And so one of the things our sales guys are spending a lot of time on these sales activations are doing more sampling, more events, more staff orientations, things that create the energy around the brand. And so that then the distributor doing what they can do can fill the shelves or service the on-premise accounts.
[00:21:28] Jessica Infante: All of that is so important to do. And everything you just mentioned, that was my old life. I did a lot of that for a very large craft brand. And it's a lot of work, but some of it is just, to me, it's table stakes. And I think a lot of people got away from it. So talk a little bit about ways that brewers are able to make an impact in the trade that don't maybe require a lot of money.
[00:21:47] Fred Matt: So I think one, first and foremost, only go to the accounts that you can actually get something done. And I mean sell beer. But once you're in the account, I believe first and foremost is getting the staff. So endearing yourself with the staff and getting them to be part of the process and part of building The brand, I've been in Philadelphia this week and Utica Club, I've been with, I believe it was in six bars, but three sales guys had been in, you know, Fred, this is the next top brand. This thing is coming. We're going to be part of this mission. We're going to be part of this movement. And that's what you want, in getting these people to help you do what you're trying to do. And then signage, sampling, clearly works with customers. I'm not a big believer in buying people beers, because what's free is treated as free. But I think the craft industry got into kind of being a, hi, I'm here, an ambassador, and not really focused on selling. We got to focus on going to the accounts where you can really make an impact, and then going to the accounts where you can do the staff orientations and the samplings and all the things that connect to Buda cell.
[00:22:56] Jessica Infante: I'm glad you mentioned Utica Club, because after leaving the New York State Brewers Conference in Albany, I realized I didn't have any, which was an enormous miss on my part, and I am so sorry. But I can have one in Philadelphia? Yeah, yeah. Because I could not find it in Massachusetts. Well, at least not in my area.
[00:23:13] Fred Matt: Yeah, no, it's not in Massachusetts yet, but we'll get there. Next time I go to Boston to see my sister, I'll have to deliver some.
[00:23:21] Jessica Infante: Yeah, let me know.
[00:23:21] Fred Matt: Because I'm going to create an experience for you that you'll be raving about.
[00:23:24] Jessica Infante: Oh, great. Everybody is telling you this is going to be the next big thing, which is almost a silly thing to say because it is such a storied brand, but we are having a moment on these regional lagers. So when did you first realize that this is going to be the next big thing?
[00:23:41] Fred Matt: Well, we're not the big thing yet, and I don't ever like to think like I'm the big thing because then I'll never get there. Perfectly said. I live on paranoia. But, you know, I think that Utica Club is an interesting brand because it did so well from basically coming out of prohibition up until the 70s. And then, like most regionals, it struggled. And then it was really, I mean, if I tied Saranac to Utica Club, people would literally say Utica Club is garbage. And so that is associated with Saranac. Now Utica Club and Saranac coming out of the same brewery and being part of it from the same family is like cool. And what we find that is happening with Utica Club is that the craft drinkers going into the craft bars and drinking the high alcohol or IPA, and then they're calling it, I'm downshifting to Utica Club. So Utica Club's being called their everyday craft beer. So it's kind of a phenomena that's really happening in the craft community that has brought Utica Club back. And then you also get the nostalgic side of it of everybody's grandfather loved Utica Club because Utica Club at one time was a 10 million case brand. And so you got all this nostalgia that's coming back that's helping us.
[00:24:55] Jessica Infante: But it's genuine nostalgia. It's not like...
[00:24:57] Fred Matt: Authentic, real. Right. And, you know, hopefully people know that we appreciate them.
[00:25:03] Jessica Infante: What's the ABV on that?
[00:25:04] Fred Matt: It's five.
[00:25:05] Jessica Infante: Oh, cool. Yeah. I mean, I think what we're kind of seeing is that people, we all went in like full flavor, high ABV. And then people realize that maybe they couldn't hang for, you know, more than one or two of those beers. And then people discovered things like hard seltzer. And people enjoyed those for a time. And then people realized, wait, but I actually like the taste of beer. And I think they're coming back around.
[00:25:27] Fred Matt: Yeah, I think beer's taking some shots, but I think beer is going to stand. And I think that, you know, you're hearing much more people talking about socialization and getting out more. Beer fits perfectly for that. We've also introduced a 3%, uh, it's called Saranac Weekend Warrior mid-strength. And just stealing from Australia and New Zealand and the UK, Australia and New Zealand, those brands are like 35% of the market. In the UK, I think they're 10. And I think that, you know, for me, I love beer, but I don't always want the high alcohol. And so like if, you know, the New York Brewers thing, I will admit I had nine of our Weekend Warrior IPAs. I walked home in a straight line. and I woke up the next morning at 7.30, went for a run, and then felt good. Look at you. So now that in years past has been drinking our IPA, which I'll sit there and drink and drink and drink and then not feel so good. Right. I do think that there's a market there that is, especially for the youngers, where you've got young kids and they're waking you up and Oh, I know. Yeah, I used to love the nap in those days.
[00:26:39] Jessica Infante: Sometimes you don't get the nap, though.
[00:26:41] Fred Matt: I forced them to.
[00:26:44] Jessica Infante: My daughter knows that sometimes she turns into No Nap Cora, and she knows that No Nap Cora is a little unpopular, but she will gleefully declare, like, No Nap Cora! But what made you guys realize that mid-strength was the move, and how do you communicate that?
[00:27:00] Fred Matt: Those are both really good questions. So I love kind of watching where consumers are going and where markets are going. I never played hockey, but Gretzky talked about skating to where the puck is. And we have an NA, but we haven't put in a lot of energy beyond it. Everybody and his brothers doing NA. And while it's 5% in some grocery stores, it's essentially a one and a half, 2% category. I personally don't think it's going to get that much bigger. I think the products are gotten a lot better, but there's still a compromise. When you drink a 3% alcohol, I think that they taste fabulous because of technology and because of all the work that everybody's done to make a really great beer. So I'm not compromising as much as I was in the past. And so I think that's a great place to be. As far as communication, you really got to stick on the taste of the beer. And by the way, it's only 3%. Because what happens is when people see 3%, they go, ah, that's water. I don't want to taste it. And it's funny they say that because they're then going to drink an N.A., which is not as flavorful. But it's what we're finding is if we hammer this is a full flavored Kraft Pilsner or a full flavored IPA, then we get the customer.
[00:28:15] Jessica Infante: And who do you think the customer is for that product?
[00:28:18] Fred Matt: I honestly think it's my age all the way down. So my kids are in their 30s, and they're loving it because of their life. I've got a granddaughter now, and so that my daughter, my son-in-law, who, well, Bragg was the Top Gun pilot. He did all the flying for the Top Gun movie. He just got out and so he's at BAE Systems and he's at MIT getting his MBA at night. Oh my goodness. So the guy's got no time. When he drinks, 3% alcohol is perfect for him.
[00:28:51] Jessica Infante: That's awesome. Wow, what a fun, I don't want to say name drop because you didn't name drop.
[00:28:56] Fred Matt: I didn't because I got to get the stud factor over to me from him.
[00:29:02] Jessica Infante: There's definitely a halo. Justin talks all the time about how much he would love a mid-strength beer. And it's something that we see here and there, but I think it's largely an uncharted market. So I'm really excited to see where this goes.
[00:29:15] Fred Matt: I'd agree. We've been out for about a year, and it's getting more and more traction. I would say it's a slog. And so when you talked about selling beer in the old days, this is back to selling beer in the old days. And if you listen to Bill at Athletic, his How I Built This, which is a great podcast, is, you know, what he did is what we have to do. What we did in building Saranac is what we've got to do on this. And it's not, there's no free lunch, and it's a slog. And it sucks, quite frankly, but I know there's a market there. And at some point, it just will come.
[00:29:52] Jessica Infante: Yeah. One thing I do want to make sure we get into is your partnership in the form of Rightco Spirits, because you guys, I think, were really ahead of the game on that in terms of partnering with fellow craft brewers to meet a need in the market that you didn't see too many other brewers going into at the time, which was to create RTDs. But this was in the early days.
[00:30:11] Fred Matt: So you partnered with Flying Dog at the time, Harpoon. Flying Dog, we ultimately ended up buying.
[00:30:18] Jessica Infante: I love when those things happen. It's like a partnership that just goes so well.
[00:30:22] Fred Matt: Yeah, that was great. And then, you know, Harpoon is, we produced for Harpoon for over 35 years and, you know, we just all get along. And so it was really kind of friends getting together and saying, this market is coming, let's get in. And then the benefit of it is, is you're using everybody else's Salesforce. And so that we get to a bigger geography, we can invest more because we're all kicking in to support the brand. And it's just, it's been a great relationship. And what I really want to do as we go forward is do more and more of these joint ventures where, you know, it's just not us doing it alone. How do you do it? You know, we could do a mid-strength joint venture across the country and work with partners. And so that everybody's selling the same beer and you get a national boom.
[00:31:07] Jessica Infante: What advice would you give brewers who are just starting to think about teaming up with other brewers to create either JVs or partnerships or even merge? What were some things that you wish you had known before going in?
[00:31:18] Fred Matt: The biggest learning we got was, you know, you're running it by committee.
[00:31:22] Jessica Infante: Yeah.
[00:31:22] Fred Matt: And so put a head on the horse. So John Schwartz, who worked at Harpoon.
[00:31:26] Jessica Infante: He was the best.
[00:31:27] Fred Matt: He's great. I love John.
[00:31:28] Jessica Infante: Like the nicest person.
[00:31:29] Fred Matt: Yeah. John is now head of Rightco Spirits for us, which is giving us a big lift because it's, you got a head on the horse and someone focusing on it because you're working through two organizations. He knows our organization. He knows their organization. My biggest piece of advice is you got to have somebody that is running the ship, and it can't be everybody's sales force because it just doesn't get the focus. Good. That's great, great advice.
[00:31:54] Jessica Infante: And speaking of running the ship, you are now the chair of the BA Board of Directors.
[00:31:58] Fred Matt: I am. I am. So what are you looking ahead to this year? What are your goals? I think a couple of things is that, you know, the BA was built around events and membership and government affairs. And I think that, you know, it was a $30 million organization. And I think that what we're doing now is saying we're going to focus on three pillars. We're going to focus on events, membership, and government affairs. And then what we're now doing is setting priorities and goals in each one of those pillars, and then we'll drive it down through the organization. And so that everybody, the organization, the committees that we have are all focused on the same thing and driving the business forward. First and foremost, what we're trying to do with all that is please our constituency, who are our customers. All associations are kind of seeing some membership pullback, and all that's about is they're not seeing the value. So what we as an organization got to do is be bringing value to our constituency, and when we bring value, our membership will go up.
[00:32:57] Jessica Infante: That's great. What do you think that brewers need to hear in terms of what would inspire them to actually become members?
[00:33:04] Fred Matt: You know, again, it's how we quantify the value, and that's not always easy. I think one of the things we did in New York State, which we have a high membership, is continually remind people what we're doing for them. And so I think there's a lot of things that we're doing that people take for granted and don't know we're doing, and we're doing a lot of great stuff. So one, first and foremost, get that out. But then I think we got also, and Sarah runs memberships doing a great job of this, is kind of a listening tour as a part. on what do people need, how can we help you, and you know they're formulating those and then going to come back to the board and say this is what we're going to do.
[00:33:42] Jessica Infante: We are associate members and I have noticed that communication has been really good lately in terms of just like regularity, telling you what you need to know. I've found it really helpful.
[00:33:52] Fred Matt: Yeah, Bart and his team are doing an awesome job. You know, Bob did a great job and, you know, as things evolve, he wanted to retire and Bart's a great person to step in and take over behind them.
[00:34:03] Jessica Infante: Who but, you know? Well, I do want to like help us end on a high note that we've had a really like uplifting conversation, I feel. But, you know, going back to the 138 years that you guys have been around and you were talking to Justin about this before we started up, but everything comes in waves, right? So what advice would you give to brewers right now who are maybe like a little panicked for the first time?
[00:34:25] Fred Matt: You know, I think it's cyclical and I would urge you to look at your business and really understand where you're making money. And we all do this. We all complicate things. We all get ourselves into things that don't necessarily make money, but we think they are. And if you stay focused on the things that you're actually making money on, and you then focus on delighting your customer, they will keep coming back. And I can't stress enough the need to delight and over-deliver on experiences. That's what gets the consumer back.
[00:35:00] Jessica Infante: That is an absolute perfect place to leave it. Fred, thank you so much for chatting and it's been great to hang out. Yeah, thanks. And that's our show for this week. Thank you for listening. The Brewbound Podcast is a production of BevNET CPG. Our audio engineer for the Brewbound Podcast is Joe Cracci. Our technical director is Joshua Pratt, and our video editor is Ryan Galang. Our social marketing manager is Amanda Smerlinski. Our designer is Amanda Huang. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with your colleagues and friends and review us on your listening platform of choice. You can find our work at Brewbound.com and we also welcome feedback and suggestions at podcast at Brewbound.com. On behalf of the entire Brewbound podcast team, thank you for listening. We'll be back next week.
