Brewbound Podcast: The Intersection of Beer and Pickleball

[00:00:00] Jessen Fante: Pickleball's hot. We're going to talk about it next on the Brewbound podcast. Hello and welcome to the Brewbound podcast. My name is Justin Kendall and I'm the editor of Brewbound and I'm joined by Jessen Fante, the managing editor of Brewbound. What's up, Jess? Not much, Justin. How are you? I'm doing pretty well. I'm excited because we're going to talk about your mom's favorite sport.

[00:00:31] Tim Holmes: This is my mom's favorite sport. It is true. That is not a your mom joke.

[00:00:37] Jessen Fante: We are going to dedicate this episode to your mom.

[00:00:41] Tim Holmes: Oh, shout out to Lynn, who I don't think so. She listens sometimes. She'll listen to this. Hi, mom.

[00:00:48] Jessen Fante: Also joining us is Zoe Licata, Brewbound reporter extraordinaire. What's up, Zoe?

[00:00:53] Mixologist Tim: Hello, how's it going?

[00:00:54] Jessen Fante: It's going well. We've got an episode here. We're going to dive into the world of pickleball with a dedicated pickleball restaurant, sports complex, live entertainment place. But, you know, we're going to talk about it from the beer perspective. So we are going to be joined today by Matt Besler, the director of Strategic Partnerships for Chicken and Pickle, which opened in 2016 in North Kansas City and has since expanded to five markets and more are on the way. And we're also going to be joined by Tim Holmes, the Mixologist Tim call him for chicken and pickle. But he is the person who handles the company's Bev-Alk purchasing decisions. And so we're going to dive into the business of Bev-Alk with him and what they're looking for on tap, in their cold box, you know, what they're looking to serve and really get at the heart of how it may be an opportunity for the producers out there. That's coming up. This is going to be an abbreviated episode as well, because Jess and I are on the road. We're traveling. We're going to be at the Beer Summit in Florida at the Breakers. So Zoe, one thing I want to know about, are the youth playing pickleball?

[00:02:14] Mixologist Tim: Yes. How popular it is, I think, depends on where you are in the country and the world. But the way I've seen it the most in its popularity is it's like a family activity or a bonding experience. So I know people my age are playing it with their parents or their grandparents and not in like a, oh, God, we have to go play pickleball with our parents type thing, but in an actual enjoyable for everyone experience. I recently, just in the past year or so, there started to be more, I think, youth targeted places that have been putting in pickleball courts here in Boston specifically. And so I think it could slowly become more of a young people's thing. But I think it's still kind of at that infancy stage. So correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like you told us that you used to play in like middle school gym class, right? Yeah, middle school gym class on the basketball court, they would set it up for us. That's why it's funny to me that this is an actual competitive sport now because we were just messing around in gym class. but it has evolved significantly since then. I think it was like, we always heard like myths about the origins of pickleball back then. I think our gym teacher liked to say that it was formed in New England, but I think it really was like a Washington West Coast thing. I think there's debates over like why it's called pickleball, whether it's named after like the dog of the creators or not. Yeah, so it was always this kind of weird, funky sport, and now it's a legitimate sport.

[00:03:55] Tim Holmes: You are a font of pickleball knowledge. I'm so glad you are here to share all of that.

[00:04:00] Mixologist Tim: Well, you know, anything pickle related, although I am disappointed there's no actual pickles related to this sport. That is disappointing. Yeah, I think we should figure out a way to actually integrate them because I would enjoy it more. We know about you and pickles, Justin, don't worry.

[00:04:16] Jessen Fante: Yeah, nah, pickle beer.

[00:04:20] Mixologist Tim: I got pickle popcorn seasoning for Christmas and I'm really excited to try it. Oh, interesting. I almost bought pickle cashews the other day.

[00:04:27] Jessen Fante: You guys are disgusting me.

[00:04:30] Tim Holmes: Zoe, we are long overdue for a trip back to Castle Island for pickle pizza. Absolutely. I know it's been like a year. Yeah, it has, literally.

[00:04:40] Jessen Fante: Yeah, you guys had your holiday party without me.

[00:04:43] Tim Holmes: Yeah. Yeah. You, you know, you had a tiny baby.

[00:04:46] Jessen Fante: Yeah. And then I moved.

[00:04:47] Tim Holmes: And then you moved. Yeah. And you hate pickles.

[00:04:50] Jessen Fante: Yeah, it all adds up. And another reason that we're talking about this is the two major brewers in this country have invested in some way in pickleball. Anheuser-Busch is a team owner. Molson Coors has a sponsorship deal that made Vizzy the exclusive hard seltzer of the Professional Pickleball Association. When I was at the Molson Coors distributor meeting in Nashville last year, they announced this and they called it the fastest growing sport. And I guess it was, my guess was F1 when they said that, but I guess I'm wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.

[00:05:28] Tim Holmes: know, maybe F1 for spectators, pickleball for participating. I can see that. It's not like we can all become F1 drivers.

[00:05:38] Jessen Fante: No, but you can live that pickleball dream, you know, you have it in your blood.

[00:05:42] Tim Holmes: Very easily, oh yeah, no, not me. I'm very happy that Lynn has found an activity she enjoys. I am the least athletic person in the world, so I will be staying far, far away from the pickleball courts of Lavalette, New Jersey. Looks stressful, people take it very seriously. There are lines wrapped around the court to play. My mom's neighbors went on a legit pickleball vacation. It's so hot right now.

[00:06:07] Jessen Fante: It's a big deal, and there's a reason that we're talking about it.

[00:06:11] Tim Holmes: It's a big deal.

[00:06:14] Jessen Fante: You know, the last episode that we did, we ended on a high note.

[00:06:18] SPEAKER_??: Sorry.

[00:06:18] Jessen Fante: And now I think we're just going to go on that low note into our featured interview here. So stay tuned for that. Pickleball is one of the fastest-growing sports in the U.S., and several major beer companies are getting into the game, either through sponsorships or team ownership. The crossover of pickleball and beverage alcohol is only just beginning, and there's a growing restaurant chain dedicated to bringing the sport to the masses. Chicken and Pickle is an indoor outdoor family entertainment complex with a full service restaurant, sports bar, pickleball courts and a live entertainment venue. And of course, beer is involved. CNP has locations in Kansas City, Oklahoma City, San Antonio, Wichita, Overland Park, Kansas and Grand Prairie, Texas. Later this month, a new location will open in Grapevine, Texas. We'll chat about it all with Tim Holmes, Chicken and Pickles Mixologist Tim handles the company's bevel purchasing decisions. But first, we're going to chat with Matt Besler, Director of Strategic Partnerships about the company's expansion. So here we go. Joining us now is Matt Besler, Director of Strategic Partnerships for Chicken and Pickle. Thanks for being here, Matt. Yeah, thanks for having me. We're excited to chat with you because I used to live in Kansas City and I'm very familiar with chicken and pickle and y'all have expanded out from that North Kansas City location that opened in 2016. And so for folks who may not be as familiar with the sport or, you know, the locations, how would you describe them?

[00:07:54] Matt Besler: How would you describe the sport? That is a tough question because I think pickleball in general is hard to describe right now because it is blowing up. It is everywhere. People are talking about it. People are playing. It is the fastest growing sport in our country right now. And so the landscape is changing on a weekly basis. There's a lot of excitement around the game. There's a lot of opportunities that bodes well for our company. Chicken and Pickle is a restaurant entertainment company that focuses on pickleball. We have a world class pickleball facility on our properties as well as a restaurant and other event spaces. So for us, it's been an exciting time to be involved. busy to say the least. But overall, we're really happy to be expanding and we're excited about our future.

[00:08:53] Jessen Fante: What do you think it is about this moment that Pickleball is really sort of catching on with folks?

[00:09:00] Matt Besler: Pickleball itself as a game, it seems like it's this perfect blend of what people are looking for. It has an aspect of athleticism for people that are looking for that. You know, you go out, you feel like you worked out. It has an aspect of competitiveness. You can go out and you keep score and you can win and you can lose and you can compete. It also has an aspect of the social part. You know, people can go out and you connect and you socialize, you know, and I can go down the list of and add like three or more elements of the game. But I think it's just this really cool mix of different things that happened during the game of pickleball that is very unique to other sports.

[00:09:45] Tim Holmes: To me, anecdotally, it feels like pickleball really took off. I started noticing it probably the summer of 2020. I spend a lot of time in the summer at my family's house at the Jersey Shore. And, you know, when I go for walks and jogs in the morning, the town has turned almost all of its tennis courts into pickleball courts, which are always packed. There's a huge line. All my neighbors are there. They love it. My mom loves it. But you guys have really been at this for a much longer time, 2016. So what have you learned in the years from then until now that you're going to bring with you to the new markets that you're entering?

[00:10:19] Matt Besler: Yeah, so I think when we first started out, you know, we were focused on the people that played pickleball and took it very seriously. It was sort of this niche market. And what we've seen certainly in the past year or two with pickleball blowing up is that this is mainstream. You just talked about your mom plays and your aunt plays and we're at the Jersey Shore and everybody's playing and we hear that every day. And so it's no longer this sport where you have to have played for so long. We see people show up on our properties in jeans. They come after they work and they've never played pickleball before and they get a paddle in their hand and all of a sudden, two hours later, they're sweating through their dress shirt and they're like, holy cow, this is amazing. What is this game? I'm going on and I'm buying my paddle right now because I'm hooked. It happens so fast. People get hooked. which is really cool. The other thing that I want to talk about too, and you all can probably relate to this a little bit too, you know, being kind of in the beer world, just with COVID. COVID changed our landscape as well. Obviously it was difficult during COVID, but coming out of COVID, people are looking for somewhere to go to be able to connect. with other people and to socialize and to drink beer, you know, but pickleball is one of those things. And so we, we really saw a jump in the interest coming out of COVID because. You know, people just show up on our property and they put their cell phone down for an hour because you have to, when you play pickleball, in case you didn't know, it's hard to play pickleball and then look at your cell phone. And then afterwards, they play for an hour and then they go in and they have a beer and they have some food and they socialize for another 30 minutes. And it's like, oh, my gosh, I just spent an hour and a half and I connected with people. I haven't done this in so long. This feels good. I needed this. So I don't know. That's that's sort of what we're experiencing.

[00:12:24] Mixologist Tim: So you are about to open a new location in Grapevine, Texas. Is that going to be your seventh location now?

[00:12:31] Matt Besler: Correct. Yeah, we have six locations currently open. We're opening up a location later this month at the end of January in Grapevine, Texas, and that will be our third location in the state of Texas. We've got one in San Antonio that's open and we've got another one in the Dallas area in Grand Prairie.

[00:12:51] Mixologist Tim: So when you're looking for these new locations, what is it that you're looking for? This is a place that needs a chicken and pickle.

[00:13:00] Matt Besler: Yeah, that's a great question. Every market is different and every deal is different that we do. A lot of it depends on real estate. You know, some are private deals. Some are, you know, sale leaseback deals. Some deals you have to work through taxes and, you know, cities and states. And so it's really hard to say, like, this is exactly what we're looking for, because that's not necessarily true. We don't really have something specific we're looking for. I think it just depends on the market. But one of the biggest factors is the community. community plays a huge role in our company. It's one of our major focuses. So one of the first things we do when we're exploring a new market is we really do a lot of research on that community. And we, you know, decide if there's opportunities to get involved and what that might look like.

[00:13:55] Mixologist Tim: So what are some of the new markets that you guys are looking at for potential future locations?

[00:14:02] Matt Besler: We get asked about our expansion all the time. The new locations that we've announced are Glendale, Arizona, which is right outside of Phoenix, Henderson, Nevada, which is outside of Las Vegas, St. Charles, Missouri, outside of St. Louis, and Webster, Texas, which is outside of Houston. We've got four locations that we've announced all new markets for us, big markets. So that's that's exciting for us. We've got a couple that are we're looking into that are fairly close. Unfortunately, I'm not going to be able to share those until they get completely over the finish line. But it's one of the questions we get asked probably the most is when are you coming to our city? And it's hard to answer because we don't really know, but I can promise you that we've probably looked at it and we've tried.

[00:14:51] Tim Holmes: Awesome. Matt, going on, you know, what we've really kind of talked about here is that Pickleball is super popular. It's cross-generational. What are the demographics that you guys look for when you're choosing new markets? Is there a kind of person that you're hoping comes to the business? Are you looking for something in particular when you're selecting locations? How does that work?

[00:15:13] Matt Besler: Yeah, I think we we look at 10, 20 and 30 mile radiuses. And we found that chicken and pickle is it is it's a destination. You know, as as important as the location is, it's nice to be able to put it in areas where people can walk to or live by. That doesn't necessarily make or break the deal. People are definitely willing to get in their car and drive to chicken and pickle. But beyond that, like in terms of demograph, like age, we always joke that our target customer is between ages 5 and 95. And that is the truth. Like, for instance, this holiday break, we're at a camp for kids that were on winter break, and there's five, six year olds playing pickleball. And the other month, there was a nursing home that had a like, essentially a field trip to chicken and pickle. And there was a bunch of 90 year olds that were kind of walking around the court and getting their exercise. So when we say five to 95, yes, it kind of is a joke, but there is some truth to that.

[00:16:21] Jessen Fante: One of the things I sort of noticed too from your expansion plans is it's a lot of warm weather markets and it's a lot of suburban markets. Is that fair to say that those are sort of the target areas you look for?

[00:16:34] Matt Besler: Warm weather certainly helps. It allows us to build more courts that are outside. The outdoor courts are cheaper than the indoor courts. But it's good to have a hybrid. So typically on a chicken and pickle property, we have outdoor courts, we have outdoor covered courts, and then we have indoor courts. It's kind of an all weather property. It kind of depends on what people like. Some people like being outside, even when it's 100 degrees. Some people love playing indoors no matter what. So it kind of just depends on the customer. In terms of being out in the suburbs, I wouldn't really say that's necessary. I think it all just depends on the deal, the real estate deal, the price of the land. Typically, land is more reasonably priced in the suburbs than it is in city centers. So that's probably one of the main reasons why we've leaned that way.

[00:17:30] Jessen Fante: Well, one last question for you, and I guess, you know, are there pickleball hotspots in the country that you've sort of picked up on yet that maybe you're either in those markets yet going to, or, you know, are on your wishlist?

[00:17:47] Matt Besler: Yeah, Austin, Texas seems to be a hot spot. There's a lot of professional pickleball players that are moving to Austin, Texas, and they're starting to train together. So that's a market that we're definitely interested in. We've always been interested in. I would say the other one is Florida. You know, to the point that was made before about tennis courts getting turned into pickleball courts and you know, everyone's mom and grandma plays. And I would say in Florida, there is a huge population of people that have retired and that are really looking to stay active. And that definitely fits pickleball. And so yeah, we're actively finding ways and searching how we can get into Florida.

[00:18:34] Jessen Fante: Well, Matt, we're gonna hop to our next interview with Tim, but thanks for joining us and filling us in on the expansion plans.

[00:18:41] Matt Besler: You're welcome. Thanks for having me and let me know if you ever come out to Chicken and Pickle. We'd love to treat you.

[00:18:46] Jessen Fante: We definitely will. Joining us next is Tim Holmes, Chicken and Pickles mixologist. Thanks for being here, Tim. Thanks for having me, Justin. Tim, I'm excited to talk to you as well because I used to live in Kansas City and I used to go to Cinder Block across the street from Chicken and Pickle and I've actually been through Chicken and Pickle in North Kansas City. So I'm pretty stoked that we finally get to connect. I hope you had a good time. It's a lot of fun there. Yeah, it's very cool. I've got to check out like the whole backyard situation that you all have the indoor courts and everything. But you know what we want to talk about today is you're in charge of the Bev Elk program for chicken and pickle and the company is about to expand into several markets including grapevine Texas for Bev Elk producers out there who want to know how to get on tap or get into the cold box at chicken and pickle. What do they need to know?

[00:19:40] North Kansas: Yeah, so it's funny that you say that because I'm actually in the grapevine right now doing some training before we open. But one of the big things that we look for, I know you've heard our big slogan is our hearts are local. Chicken and Pickle does a lot of stuff for local charitable organizations throughout our markets. Obviously in Kansas City, it'll be Kansas City specific and San Antonio, San Antonio specific, but our hearts are local. It doesn't just stop there. We love to get our local distilleries, our local brewers involved. with a fresh quality product that we're putting out in our kitchen. That's what we also look for in brewers. Minimal additives and preservatives. We like using fresh fruits, fresh purees, and really partner up with those local breweries to produce a quality product at a quality price.

[00:20:24] Tim Holmes: What's the most important thing that BevElk suppliers need to know about keeping their placement? What would you like to see from them in terms of support?

[00:20:31] North Kansas: We do a lot, like I said, with charitable organizations. So we'll do charity pickleball tournaments. We'll do some charity bingo at some places. And we really just want support for that. We could get their name up for pickleball tournaments. They could help with some giveaways and stuff, some prizes, some brewery tours. People like getting stuff, that's for sure. And we really love our partners to help us give back to the community is what we're primarily looking for.

[00:21:01] Jessen Fante: So how do you define local? I mean, is it like within the city? Is it within the state? You know, how, how do you define that for avow producers?

[00:21:11] North Kansas: I guess it's not something that we've really put a hard definition on. Obviously in the state of Texas, for example, it's huge. There's a lot of great breweries there. So we do that one more statewide, but also getting those little cities in. We have a brewery called Hoppin' Sting out in Grapevine that is in Grapevine. but we also we're doing stuff with Roaring Suns and DFW. We'll do a product like Shinerback and things like that spread across. So it's not really per city, we just we like to capture what the community wants, what the community has to offer, and we want to bring that towards our guests in any way that we can.

[00:21:55] Jessen Fante: How many taps do you typically offer in a location?

[00:21:57] North Kansas: Anywhere from 48 to 52, a lot of those, I mean, we're gonna have some movers, some big ones, for example, Budline, Coors Light, things like that. But we like to use a lot of those, as we said, for these local ones. You'll know it's a good local one when they're self-distributing or they're just getting into bigger vendors just because they're growing more and more. But we like to use a lot of those for those local brewers with the quality product that they have.

[00:22:31] Tim Holmes: And in terms of package, how many different products do you typically carry in your beer and RTD department?

[00:22:38] North Kansas: Not a lot. Draft beers are king from what we've learned out, especially since we have so many on tap. We like to provide different options. So again, we're going to carry the basics in your cans and then leave the other options for maybe up to five or six different local craft beers or even some local hard seltzers if the brewery offers to that.

[00:23:01] Jessen Fante: I was just going to say, do alternative alcoholic beverages such as hard seltzers, canned cocktails, cider, hard kombucha, hard tea, do they all factor in for you or are those products, you know, things that are not really available at your locations?

[00:23:17] North Kansas: Yeah, well, the seltzer game is a game that everyone's trying to get into. And it is something that we carry. We like to have a wide variety of things to offer to different people. You know, some who might like IPAs or light lagers may not like seltzers. And on the other side, you're going to have people who like the seltzers and ciders, where maybe the cocktails or the beer isn't really going to treat them. So we do like to have that variety to offer to many different varieties of guests. Do those products perform very well? Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. We'll sell seltzers through the roof. I know in North Kansas City area, so in North Kansas City, in Overland Park, in Wichita, Kansas, and even in Oklahoma City, we offer Boulevard seltzers, especially in Boulevard's backyard. It's a boom. It does take off. So when we go to our more southern markets, like again, Oklahoma or San Antonio, Grand Prairie, Texas or Grapevine, Texas, Topo Chico is going to take those spots. So the seltzer game is something that we're really proud of. And we're proud that we have the quality product we do, rather than just relying on the bigger name brands, if you will, such as Trulia or White Claws or things like that. Boulevard is a local one to Kansas City, Topo Chico being another local one. to the Texas and southern region. So we're really proud with the product that they have.

[00:24:42] Tim Holmes: That's really awesome to hear because I know the hard seltzer narrative nationally is a little different, but it sounds like you guys are really making it work for you. So that's great. in our world, spirits-based, ready-to-drink canned cocktails are huge right now. Is that something that is interesting to you guys? Having never been to a Chicken and Pickle, I can imagine that your bars are super high volume, there's tons of people moving in and out, and maybe cracking open RTD and handing it over to the bar might be an easier thing to do. being that you are the Mixologist Tim assume that might be a little anathema to how you would like to run things. So how do you approach that side of the business?

[00:25:21] North Kansas: Well, first things first, we got to get you to chicken and pickles. But RTDs are something that have been intriguing to us. You know, as you said, it is growing. We'll again have some of our stores bring in those, like the high noons, for example, a vodka-based seltzer. And it's something that we've been looking into for a few years now. And we're kind of testing it out in different markets. They're going to play different strengths and weaknesses in every spot. So it's just a matter of finding that perfect RTD that's really going to thrive in that market and give the guests what they're looking for.

[00:25:55] Jessen Fante: Is it sort of threading a needle with one of those products or two of those products and then your actual like spirits program?

[00:26:04] North Kansas: People are going to want different things. Some people want the RTP. They want something that they can just grab and go. Some people want to see a crafted cocktail made in front of them. It's again playing into the avenues that we want to. We want to reach out to as many different people as many different markets that we can to try to have something that's going to be valuable for everybody. So threading the needle, I don't know if I would use that. It's again, we just want something that's going to be ready and available to as many different kinds of people and personalities that there is.

[00:26:35] Jessen Fante: And it's probably easier to carry around a pickleball court. Oh, for sure.

[00:26:42] Tim Holmes: So we also talk a lot about dry January, which is upon us. How do non-alcoholic beverages fit into your mix?

[00:26:50] North Kansas: That is something that we are testing out in one of our stores right now. We have a very small mocktail program, but we're also, we do multiple pop-up events throughout the year where we'll feature, you know, some higher and higher crafted cocktails, and we will feature some of those higher and higher crafted mocktails. It just goes into getting things ready for as many people as we want. We also like to have the bartenders use their creativity. Not necessarily just following an exact recipe. I mean, obviously we got to make sure things get rang in the proper way. But if a guest comes up and say, hey, I want a mocktail, it's not just throwing some juices together, right? Like that's not the point. You want something that's going to look good, that's going to taste good, that's just going to be of a great value to the guest with not only price but flavor. So it falls in line with what we're doing. It's something that we definitely see ourselves doing very soon in the future.

[00:27:43] Jessen Fante: is non alcoholic beer mak into that mix as well.

[00:27:48] North Kansas: No more demand if you will f side of things for non al You either want it or you don't, from my experience. But you will have some breweries that will do non-alcoholic IPAs, lagers, and things like that. If people want a non-alcoholic beer, like I said, from what I've learned, they're going to get it. But it doesn't mean that we're not looking. It doesn't mean that we're not against it. We love to feel out the different varieties and, again, see how it's going to play into each market that we have.

[00:28:22] Tim Holmes: What was your most recent round of new product pitches like? Is there anything that you're really tired of being pitched on?

[00:28:31] North Kansas: Well, there for a little bit, about a year ago, it seems like everyone that was coming to me was like, try our seltzer, try our seltzer, try our seltzer. I'll drink a seltzer every now and then for sure. But at some point it's like, oh my God, another one? But other than that, I mean, I personally, I like hearing these pitches. I like hearing what, not necessarily vendors have, but what breweries have, their representatives. What can they bring to the table? What kind of product do they have? Is it something that we can work with? I love hearing those different kinds of things because we're able to expand our horizons and it opens our eyes a little bit to the fads and the trends are going on that we may not be privy to.

[00:29:11] Jessen Fante: So what do you want to see from a supplier meeting then? What's sort of the key to a good meeting for you?

[00:29:18] North Kansas: I'm going to go back a little bit to community. I mean, that's something that's really close to our hearts. It's the foundation on which Chicken and Pickle is founded. Obviously, we want to hear what they have, where they are, what different varieties of beers or products that they have. But we really want to know how they're helping their local communities. I mean, I'll use the example again with Hoppenstein. They have 16 beers on tap and each one of those beers for the revenue that they make, for every dollar they donate a penny. And I think last year he was saying they donated nearly $40,000 for that, which is huge for the grapevine community. But that's really something that I personally look for, that Chicken and Pickle looks for, with that being one of our core values and the backbone of Chicken and Pickle. It's truly something that's near and dear and close to our hearts.

[00:30:11] Tim Holmes: That's great. And what's the most exciting new product you've come across this year? What has you really fired up to add it to the stores?

[00:30:19] North Kansas: That is a fantastic question. It just depends. I mean, Kansas City called City B coming up with with new s some one offs. It's really to me honestly that stick intriguing to me because that they're going to do e make it. And that's the going to make, uh, not ne want to come to chicken a make them go to that brew We can try something out here and then it gets like it's a partnership. They'll try something here, we'll get them to go to the brewery, go to the brewery, mention chicken and pickle and they'll come back here. Those are the partnerships that are really valuable. It's people helping people and I mean, it's really incredible. I'm personally a huge IPA fan. So if you present me with a good IPA, then let's go. I'm all about it.

[00:31:09] Jessen Fante: Does chicken and pickle have mandates or is it pretty much, you know, you're going to have like those big beer brands on to sort of satisfy that customer. But as far as craft goes, is it a pretty open playbook at each specific location?

[00:31:25] North Kansas: Well, as you mentioned, we'll have our domestics and everything, you know, the big five, I call them Bud Light, Coors Light, Miller Light, Budweiser, and Michelob Ultra. We'll have a couple of services on tap, but we really, you know, I'll use an example again. The main dining bar has 26 to 28 beers on tap. Our mandate list is only taking up maybe half of that. so we can use the other 10 to 12 taps to really reach out and get those local partnerships, those breweries. Maybe some seasonals every now and then, not just big ones like, for example, Sam Autumn's Oktoberfest, but to get these seasonals that are coming in from these local breweries. We like to give our bar managers and our GMs a little freedom And we're stoked to be a part of it, and we trust them in what they're going to choose, because they know the values of what we're looking for in quality beer, quality product, to bring it to the guest.

[00:32:19] Tim Holmes: That's great. I'm sure the local teams really love having that autonomy to choose, you know, what they'd like to serve. That's not always the case in, you know, multi-location families. So that's awesome. Now, Chicken and Pickle is like an experience. It's not the same as just going to your local sports bar. So how does being a beer and beverage buyer for an experiential place like that differ from, you know, being like a regular establishment? Do you try to approach the menu differently?

[00:32:48] North Kansas: You know, a little bit. Our executive chef, Alex Dobb, does a fantastic job with his menu, and we want our product behind the bar to represent that. I'll use a cocktail for e want to have incredible f then have subpar cocktail going to work, it's not g the great menu that he pu more health conscious. It' And so we like to take th when we're doing it. Are cocktails and beer is goi more on the healthy side. for these fresh fruits, h and everything that are going to be a little more fresh instead of adding additives and preservatives and things like that. We want things to be light, refreshing, and then easy to drink. You are playing pickleball. It wouldn't make sense to have 10 stouts on tap and then try to go play a game of pickleball. It's not going to work out for you very well. So we do like things that are going to be a little bit on the lighter side, but still covering that that diversity of the menu and having all these options ready and available to go.

[00:33:53] Jessen Fante: Yeah, I don't think anybody wants 10 stouts and then a game of pickleball, which sort of leads us to what's the typical experience like for a beer drinker at a chicken and pickle? Is it beers before playing, after, during?

[00:34:06] North Kansas: You know, that's that's the great thing about it is that we'll be able to get both. We do have a pickleball leads. Some are a little more competitive. Some are a little more recreational. Those recreational ones, though, they'll put back a couple. That's for sure. But to the average to the average person, you know, going out and renting a court, they're really just there to have a good time. They may not know the game very well, but that's fine. It's all about interacting with each other, getting to know each other, getting to know the local community. If they if they want to have a drink, they'll have a drink. It is a good range of people who will go out there, have a few beers, have a few cocktails, just kind of hang out and just absorb that entire experience that chicken and pickle has to offer.

[00:34:46] Tim Holmes: So given the name, which I know, you know, the pickle comes from pickleball, but I have to ask as a complete degenerate, one of my favorite beverage alcohol treats is a pickleback shot. Do you guys do those?

[00:35:00] North Kansas: It is offered, yes. So we make our own pickles. So it's our own pickle bag. Oh my God. Again, it's a very unique experience. So the pickle juice that we go back and get, that's ours. We're not buying it from jars. We're not getting anywhere else. It's stuff that we make and it's something that we're damn proud of for sure. So we do offer those pickle bags and it's incredible. You'll see one group get it and then everyone else is gonna get it just because of how it is. It's wild to see, honestly. Matt was holding out.

[00:35:31] Tim Holmes: Yeah, Matt didn't tell us that. Before Brewbound, I used to work at Boston Beer on the Sam Adams brand and we would talk about like serving items. Like what could we do that would make somebody receiving, you know, like let's say you order a Sam Adams and it comes to the table and everybody around you sees it and is like, oh, I want that too. And we would call it the fajita effect. But it sounds like the picklebacks are their own. And my other question, I'm sorry, Justin hates pickles, so he probably wants to die right now. Pickle beers, kind of having a moment. Have you tried any of them?

[00:36:04] North Kansas: Funny you should ask. We have a partnership with one of our local breweries in Oklahoma City called Roughtail. So they offer, they're actually to help us out, we partnered in creating a house beer called the Fickle Pickle. and it is a pickle goza. So it's a little more sour, but it tastes just like you're drinking a jar of pickle juice. It's crazy. So because of that, obviously in the southern regions, you're going to have micheladas that are going to be pretty popular. So that is our house michelada. It involves the fickle pickle, our house-made Bloody Mary mix, throw some tajin on the rim, and it's the chef's kiss right there. I mean, that's just a quality drink right there.

[00:36:45] Tim Holmes: That sounds like everything I would like to have right in this very moment. And I, Oklahoma City, you said?

[00:36:50] North Kansas: Yeah, so we offer it everywhere at all of our locations. The brewery is in Oklahoma, but that's something that we have at every single store.

[00:36:58] Tim Holmes: Gotcha. Awesome. Well, I will be on the next flight out to whatever is the closest location and I will see you there.

[00:37:05] North Kansas: I'll be there.

[00:37:08] Tim Holmes: Well, Tim, thanks for joining us. This has been awesome, and love learning more about what you guys do. Can't wait to visit you, and we're just so glad you took the time.

[00:37:16] North Kansas: Awesome. Well, Jessica, Justin, thank you so much. Really appreciate being on here. Let me know when you come out, and we'll meet you up there and have some beers, all right?

[00:37:24] Tim Holmes: Yes.

[00:37:24] North Kansas: Sounds great. Thanks, man. Awesome. Thank you, guys.

[00:37:28] Jessen Fante: And that's our show for this week. Thanks to our one-man audio team, Joe. Thanks to Jess and Zoe for holding it down here. And thanks to all of you for listening. We'll be back next week.