Brewbound Podcast: The Chicago Brewseum’s Liz Garibay on Preserving Beer and Bar History

[00:00:00] Justin Fonte: Next on the Brewbound podcast, we talk beer history with the Chicago Brewseum's Liz Garibay. Hello and welcome to the Brewbound podcast. My name is Justin Kendall and I'm the editor of Brewbound and I am joined by Justin Fonte, the managing editor of Brewbound, who is on the road at NACS. Yeah, hello from fabulous Las Vegas, Nevada. What have you tried so far that you're stoked about? Oh, great question. So the vodka-based Trulies were at the Boston Beer booth. Those are interesting. Boston Beer is also getting ready to drop a Jim Beam-branded F&B that is obviously part of their, you know, relationship with Beam Centauri and seems to be a challenger to perhaps Jack Daniel's Country Coolers. So that'll be interesting. And what else? Oh, Fresca Mixed. How could I forget? Fresca Mixed from Constellation. That's a partnership through Constellation and Coca-Cola, spirits-based RTD cocktails with Fresca, which is apparently so popular as a mixer that 50% of people who drink Fresca drink it with some kind of liquor. But yeah, basically my takeaway from NACS is that it is trick-or-treating. So many snack brands, candy, chips, like really anything you can think of that you could buy at a convenience store is here on the floor. And every brand is giving away branded swag bags that you just like go from booth to booth and fill up with samples. So Justin, when we see each other in Denver, I've got a whole bag of treats to share. Get excited. Sweet. Maybe we can just throw candy from the stage at Brewtalks in Denver. Yeah. Heck yes. Yeah. This road trip you're on is going to be never ending because you're heading to Denver next. And so am I. And so is Zoe who couldn't be with us this morning. She's doing actual work. You and I will be in Denver for Brew Talks at the Great American Beer Festival. We're doing our conversation series and networking at Cervantes Masterpiece. We're going to do it from noon to 3pm Mountain Time, Thursday, October 6th. So if y'all are heading to GABF and you want to hang out before, network, drink some dogfish beers, and hear some beer biz conversations on national accounts and portfolio strategies that go beyond just releasing an IPA, do we have a show for you? I'm excited. Yeah. And maybe candy. And maybe candy. That sounds slightly creepy.

[00:02:54] Justin Kendall: So creepy. So creepy.

[00:02:56] Justin Fonte: We've got a great lineup, though. We've got Becca Kiefertoff from Athletic Brewing. We've got Billy Clayton from Odell Brewing. We've got Elizabeth Eisenbart from Juneshine and Ryan Call from Dry Dock. They'll all be sharing strategies on pitching national accounts buyers and really, you know, taking care of those placements when you get them. How do you get in the door? We're going to cover it all. And then we're going to have a conversation. Actually, Jess is going to lead a conversation on taking your portfolio beyond just IPA and what that looks like in the future. And who do you have on that panel? killer lineup. We've got Dogfish Heads Brewmaster, Kyle Ingram, Sierra Nevada's Brand Director, Jess Fiero, Head Brewer and owner of Atravita Beer Company in Colorado Springs, and Mary Mills, Three Tier Beverages Consultant, who is going to put some numbers to the whole thing. But yeah, you know, it's not a secret that IPA is enormous within craft. But, you know, will it always be that way and should it be that way? So we're going to have a conversation to talk about, you know, where to find white space within core beer, because obviously most of beer's innovations have been decidedly not traditional beer in the last six, seven years. So, yeah, I'm psyched to have this chat. It should hopefully get a lot of people thinking. Yeah. And then Zoe's going to kick it off with a conversation with Shawnee Adelson, the executive director of the Colorado Brewers Guild and Jason Ford, the president of the Colorado Brewers Guild and also the owner of Broken Compass Brewing. They're going to discuss issues facing the state. BrewTalks gives some of the proceeds from the event to the Colorado Brewers Guild. So always great to sort of give back to the Guild. Yeah, I think Guild does so much for their members, especially in the last, you know, since COVID really turned the industry upside down and Guild struggled for a little bit. So we're really happy to be able to support them. Right. Well, let's do a quick bit of news. And this is breaking news. As of Tuesday, Reyes is going to enter its 11th market. When this deal closes in December, they are acquiring capital right distributing. They are getting with it. I believe it is 16 million cases and 5100 customers. Yeah, that's a lot, a lot of cases, a lot of accounts. Key suppliers in the deal include Molson Coors, Constellation Brands, Boston Beer, Marc Anthony Brands, Diageo, Heineken USA, Pabst, Gambrinus, Thirsty Planet, and St. Arnold. And this is notable because Reyes is adding additional territory. This is on the heels of a deal for D.E.T. distributing in Tennessee. That's going to be their 10th market. They just made that deal I think a month ago and it's expected to close in November. Yeah. Yeah. Huge deal. And Texas is obviously an enormous beer market.

[00:05:56] SPEAKER_??: So

[00:05:56] Justin Fonte: Yeah, I mean, right, it seems to be, you know, they had previously been adding about a state a year, you know, 2020, it was Indiana with Monarch and 2021, it was Michigan, but they've doubled that this year. So that's, you know, they've added four states in the last three years. That's, that's big, especially because, you know, when they open a market, they don't really do it small. You know, like we mentioned, 60 million cases moving out of a 435,000 square foot warehouse, 600 employees, an enormous operation, capital rights, actually the amalgamation of four different Texas wholesalers in the Austin area that have kind of been welded together beginning in 2014. So a lot of beer. Yeah, a lot of beer. And I believe this is going to push them upwards of, well, I believe there were 280 million cases annually before this deal closed. So they're going to be in that 300 million case range when all is said and done. And they have D.E.T. and capital right under their ownership. Whole lot of beer. whole lot of beer. One more thing before we get out of here. This is going to be abbreviated because we have to get to our conversation with Liz Garibay from the Chicago Brewseum and we got to get on the road and Jess has to go collect more candy from NACs. I had a conversation with New Belgium CEO Steve Fetchheimer last week, and a little bit of news coming out of that. They're going to be over 1.2 million barrels this year for just New Belgium, so pushing around 1.5, 1.7 million with Bells under their wing, I should say. I can't talk this morning. There's a sequel for Juice Force coming, which was their 9.5% hazy imperial IPA, and that beer is the best-selling craft beer launch ever, which was kind of stunning to hear. It launched initially in 19.2-ounce cans earlier this year, and they've since expanded to a full suite of packages, and 12 packs are on the way next year, because that's a lot of velocity from one brand. But they just continue to grow, and what's on the table is another Juice Force brand. which we believe might be Fruit Force, a Fruit Punch IPA, 9.5% ABV as well. Also launching in 19.2s, but also on draft in six packs. That's according to a TTB label approval that our friends at Beer Marketers Insights dug up. And while Steve didn't say what brand they were bringing to market, that seems to be the one. Wow. 9.5. I know that's, you know, what people like, that's what's selling. It's working for them clearly, but I am a big old baby and I could have one of those. I might be able to have a quarter of one. So you're not alone. Yeah. But that's sort of the news of what's happening right now before we pack our bags and hit the road or, you know, join Jess on the road. So let's get to our conversation now with Liz Garibay from the Chicago Brewseum. Okay, today we've got Liz Garibay joining us. Liz is the Executive Director of the Chicago Brewseum, which tells the history of Chicago through beer, which I'm going to quote from their excellently worded website, has been a dynamic cultural force with the power to build community and the ability to influence change. Liz, how are you? Thanks for being here. I'm great. How are you? I am super. Thanks for having me. Oh my God. Thanks for joining us. I'm a big fan of yours and of the show. Well, thank you. That's so kind. Of course, Justin and Zoe are here too. Liz, you're gearing up for the fourth annual Beer Culture Summit, an event that the Chicago Brewseum hosts and covers a wide range of topics. Can you give us a quick intro of the event and how it came to be?

[00:10:05] Liz Garibay: Yeah, it's basically a three day, four night conference that really kind of tries to emphasize all things history and culture related to beer. Really, we try to create something where there's something for everyone. And that's kind of the idea part of the, as you mentioned, the the museum's mission is that beer is a dynamic cultural force that brings people together and has the ability to make change. You got to really kind of put forth what you say, right, and do what you say. And so that's our mission. And so the annual summit is really sort of our annual gathering where we really try to emphasize those stories and try to really give a platform to anyone and everyone who has some sort of part of beer, whether you're just a consumer or someone who's making it. The summit came to be, so I'm a museum professional. I started working in museums when I was 15 years old and haven't really been able to shake them. And I also went to graduate school and went to a lot of academic conferences. So my experience with going to museum conferences and academic conferences and then beer-like fests and conferences, I realized that they're all incredibly valuable. But especially in the museum and academic spheres, you go and you see the same people talking about the same stuff over and over again. The entry point to them is also incredibly expensive. You know, these conferences have high price tags. And what I realized were two things. One, is that the people who should be there are usually entry level junior positions at museums or graduate students who don't have the funds to pay that price. And the other thing was that they're also the people who should be there because they're the ones who need to learn from some of the conversations going on. So versus trying to create an industry conference where again, it's a high ticket price, same people talking about the same things. And really they're just for the networking, which again are all valuable things. But I really wanted to create something that was more inclusive of everyone. and kind of made it more accessible, right? Again, whether you're just a beer drinker who is really interested in some aspect of history or culture of beer, or if you're in the industry and want to share some of your experiences and how they relate to the everyday, that was really the goal of the summit where everyone is just invited. And so that's what we created. And actually, I was pretty honored that when I had this idea back in, I think, 2018, The first person that I actually spoke to about it was Teresa McCullough at the Smithsonian's National Museum of American History. And we were kind of going back and forth. And I was like, hey, do you think this is a good idea? Because I knew that she was an academic. I know she was in museums. So she kind of understood what was going on. And she was really supportive of the idea. And as we discussed it a few days later, she reached out and said, hey, I think this is actually something that we'd love to partner with you on. with the museum. And so the 2019, the first annual was presented in partnership with the National Museum of American History. So that was a really big moment for us. And her participation certainly helped us tremendously for the first year of a conference. And amazingly, the first year was a grand success all in person here in Chicago. And then in 2020, we went completely virtual, of course, which also was an even greater success because we realized how much more incredible it could be because of the people we could include around the world. And not just people who wanted to come in and listen, but presenters, right? So it just has become this thing for us that we're really proud of.

[00:13:55] Justin Fonte: Yeah, there's really some freedom and no constraints in being able to hop on a Zoom or whatever.

[00:14:03] Liz Garibay: Yeah, I mean, it certainly still takes up some of your time, but it's certainly less burdensome than having to get dressed and go to a hotel conference room or something, you know what I mean? So we kind of definitely love this digital nature of it, for sure.

[00:14:18] Justin Fonte: Well, we still love being in person too, but you've got a great lineup of speakers. You've got Garrett Oliver from the Brooklyn Brewery. You have Doug Velicky from Revolution Brewing. You've got Jess Fierro from Atraveda. What are some of the conversations that you're most looking forward to hearing at the summit this year?

[00:14:41] Liz Garibay: I get pretty excited when the lineup is all sort of complete and I'm looking at it after months and months of putting it together. There are so many different ones that I'm excited about. I think for me this year, I'm pretty stoked to hear Alice Jun of Hanamakuli. She's been great to communicate with and just to hear her talk. And her, you know, her work in, in making lesser known spirit better known, and what she's doing in Brooklyn is pretty, pretty tremendous and the fact that you know you can actually order some of it before the summit and have it be a little interactive is going to be fun. I'm actually really excited. We've never included cider before, and so I'm pumped that the first cider session we're doing is Black Women in Cider. I'm excited for Kate Bernat's session on the 2015-2016, her theory that these were the years that the beer industry started to take a little bit of a, got a curveball thrown at them, if you will. Everything that we've got is pretty unique, but those are some of the ones that I was particularly excited about. And then, you know, we have an in-person event every night here in Chicago for the reasons you just mentioned, Justin, like we want to get together. We want to be able to see people in person and then we can also, you know, do something completely different. So like you mentioned, you know, Garrett, if anyone follows Garrett Oliver on Instagram, like we, you see more food than beer. So I'm excited to actually have him cook for us.

[00:16:11] Justin Fonte: I feel like if anyone's not following Garrett Oliver on Instagram, they should really question that decision for themselves because...

[00:16:18] Justin Kendall: I feel like I have to now. I didn't know this was such a big thing. You must.

[00:16:23] Justin Fonte: Big foodie.

[00:16:24] Justin Kendall: Liz, in general, just planning a beer event, there's a lot that goes into it. I mean, we know from having to do our own events, it's not an easy task. But what specifically, what kind of work goes into planning an event like this that features so many of these voices from those under-championed corners of the industry?

[00:16:44] Liz Garibay: This is going to sound like a weird answer, but it really, it's not something that takes months to create. For me, I feel that really the reason we've been able to do it and be successful at it is because of the years of work. You know, I've been studying beer history and culture for, gosh, a little over 20 years now, and given some of my contacts in the industry and also my museum contacts, I really think that has been the important foundation for the summit. Like I said, year one, you know, if you're talking to the Smithsonian and they're going to support it, that's sort of a great moment for you to say, hey, the Smithsonian is doing this with us. It's pretty legit, don't you think? And also asking, you know, year one, we had in-person events at the Field Museum, at the Chicago History Museum. We were part of the Chicago Humanities Festival. So these are all sort of opportunities because of these relationships that have just been built over many, many years. And I think that I benefit from that today in trying to build this organization and trying to build this conference is that I can lean on some of these people and just say hey, I would love to have you do something. And really the I think for me, if we're talking in a contemporary aspect of it. The most important thing for me now is that I can ask someone and say, I don't know what's happening everywhere. I don't know what's happening in journalism, right? Jess, can you suggest something? I don't know what's happening even in some of your history because I don't do as much research anymore, you know, or writing. So I will literally just ask people, what should we be talking about? Have you met someone who is really inspiring or doing something really neat? that we should know about. And so I just rely on that too. And then a couple of years ago, we sort of took a page from the museum and academic world and put out a call for proposals where you can submit your own proposal. And, you know, we have a team who sort of reviews everything and vets it and make sure that not only is it an interesting topic, but again, it will mesh well with what the summit is overall.

[00:19:02] Justin Fonte: Awesome, so we've talked about the hybrid, some in-person, some virtual. What's the easiest way for people who are not in Chicago to participate in this year's summit? Where online should they go look?

[00:19:14] Liz Garibay: Definitely all the digital sessions. It's, again, trying to make sure that we keep conference prices accessible to anyone and everyone. A one-day pass for 10 a.m. to 5 p.m. sessions is 25 bucks. And you can come in and go as you please. So we've got three days of that. And we also do, you know, I put out there every year, if you're a student or if you're just in a situation where 25 bucks is something that is just still too much for you, I tell people just email me and we'll help you out. So it's definitely important just for us to be able to share this information. Awesome.

[00:19:53] Justin Fonte: You know, Liz, you've mentioned and we've known you've been a self-professed museum nerd for a long time and your academic and professional backgrounds are unmatched. But how and when did beer enter the picture for you?

[00:20:05] Liz Garibay: Well, I've always had this special relationship with bars, you know, not in the kind of the college way, but in the in the I really just felt comfortable being in them. And then I spent some time on the West Coast going to grad school and some time on the East Coast going to grad school. And it's a very different culture. If you're a Midwesterner, people will immediately talk to you. you can strike up conversation at any point in time. And that was not really kind of my experience, certainly in the graduate school environment on both coasts. So I would find myself going to the bar by myself to study Amanda Huang out. And when I came home to visit, I would just naturally pick up where I left off. I would go to the bar by myself and immediately someone would start talking to you, right? And what happens is when you start going to the bar by yourself, but you become a regular, you're not really going alone anymore, right, because you've got your bar family. So in spending time in these places, you meet a lot of the old timers who've been sitting there for 40, 50, 60 years, hanging out, drinking, and the stories they're sharing become really interesting and you realize that they are valuable oral histories. They talk about things and it's the history of the neighborhood, the history of the city. So I started writing things down and asking questions and doing my own research because I'd also been drinking for that amount of time. So I really didn't know sometimes what was fact and what was fiction. And I just started kind of collecting the history of each individual bar that I visited. And, you know, when you start going down the street to the next one, and the next one, and you start connecting the dots, you realize that you not only have the history of several bars, but you have the history of a neighborhood. And then you extend that further, you have the history of a city. So I started to approach a lot of my work in that way. But honestly, I was still on this academic track and didn't know what I wanted to do. So I shifted gears and realized that my passion was really in the museum world and in public education. So I started implementing a lot of this research when I became the public historian at the Chicago History Museum. And it wasn't an easy path. This was 2006. And telling people you wanted to take patrons to bars to talk about history, people thought I was nuts. You know, at that point in time, alcohol in any sort of museum environment was sort of like dumbing down the topic. So it's a little bit of a battle. But finally, I got a little bit of some room to have fun. And it was one of the some of the most successful programming we did at the museum that, you know, surrounded her all around alcohol. And I was able to do more and more and more. And slowly but surely, I realized that this was something that I just wanted to dedicate really my life to.

[00:22:56] Justin Fonte: I think it's really fascinating what you just said about bar culture and sort of capturing that because as we know, bars are really, they've struggled in recent years. We've seen a number of bars close, you know, and a lot of them aren't coming back. And so I think your work to sort of preserve some of those conversations is important and we're at risk of losing a lot of that sort of history.

[00:23:23] Liz Garibay: Yeah, and you know, it's something that I think a lot of those bar owners are certainly aware of. You know, the fact of the matter is, we all feel incredibly special when we know that that corner bar has been owned by the same family for years and years and years and years. But when you're a kid growing up in the bar, the last thing you want to do is run it, right? So the issue that I have found with a lot of these bars is that the next generation doesn't necessarily want to run the bar. That's not their dream, right? It was their parents' dream or their grandparents' dream. So they want to do their own thing and so that's part of it and then the other part of it, you know that we certainly are very well aware of is that we live in such a digital world where, you know, we can pick up that little box and be connected with anyone in any part of the world. And so these. meeting places are not the same as they used to be, but I think that, you know, history repeats itself. We're all, you know, there's every, every so often you get these trends that were hot, um, and then they come back, you know, 20, 30 years later. And I think we're at that point where, and maybe it's, it's because of COVID that everyone is really sort of starting to think about these neighborhood bars and these taverns. And that's something that I certainly get excited about because I want them to be there forever.

[00:24:43] Justin Fonte: My neighborhood bar is for sale right now. It's like a bar on the ground floor of an apartment building. It clearly has not changed since the mid-70s. It's just the best. They make the best cheeseburgers. My husband and I are so nervous because it's like, when's it going to go? Is someone going to buy it?

[00:25:04] Liz Garibay: I think you need to send out an email to all your friends. and pull some money together to save that place. I know that's been happening in some pockets of the UK, different communities are sort of trying to preserve their local and coming together to have this communal bar.

[00:25:25] Justin Fonte: Well, keep an eye out for my GoFundMe to acquire Major McLeish's.

[00:25:28] Liz Garibay: I shall be a supporter of that effort.

[00:25:32] Justin Fonte: I'll buy your first beer.

[00:25:33] Liz Garibay: Nice.

[00:25:34] Justin Fonte: Maybe don't offer beer for life though. That seems like a bad proposition. No, first beer. First beer, maybe french fries for life.

[00:25:44] Justin Kendall: Yes, I'll take that too. Out of personal curiosity, as someone living in Boston, do you have any like favorite spots from your time over on the East Coast that you remember, like bars over here?

[00:25:56] Liz Garibay: Yeah, I love Boston. I mean, that place is such so near and dear to my heart. I would live there in a heartbeat again. You know, that first year that I was there, I was sort of working my way through kind of trying to learn the place. So as that history nerd, the first place I gravitated to was the Green Dragon, just because it's got so much history. And that little, like, beautiful little, you know, alley right there near Faneuil Hall with Bell and Hand and the old Union Oyster House. I mean, that was sort of like my little, like, trifecta of history beauty. So I spent a lot of time in that spot and that general area. And then you walk down the road a little bit and you find the Black Rose. So that sort of my first year was special. And then I lived in Brookline and spent a lot of time in Cambridge. So like the Coolidge Corner Clubhouse, I don't even know if it's still there anymore, was really special. Quick question.

[00:26:54] Justin Fonte: I mean, that was years ago. I lived in Brookline in 2012 and it was still there. Oh, all right. Yeah.

[00:27:02] Liz Garibay: Yay. I'm overdue for a visit again, so I'm gonna have to go scope it out next time.

[00:27:06] Justin Fonte: Yeah, come on out. I, one summer, had a job when we were saving for a down payment on our condo, had a job giving historic pub crawls around Faneuil Hall. put on by like this company that, you know, is run by this one guy. And he was very adamant that you stuck to his script and his questions. But, you know, we went to four bars and every bar I would tell a story, but it was like telling the story of the American revolution. There really wasn't much beer talk, but at the time I was working at a beer company. So everybody on these tours would just want to ask me about that. So my tours became beer tours. That's good to know. Yeah, we stopped. Let's see. Our stops were Durgan Park, the Blackstone, which is now closed and it's turned into a trendy taco spot, The Point, and Bellingham. The Point shares a back wall with Bellingham. It's that same exact building.

[00:27:59] Liz Garibay: Okay. Has it been there for a while?

[00:28:00] Justin Fonte: Since I've been here, which is 12 years now.

[00:28:04] SPEAKER_??: Okay.

[00:28:04] Justin Kendall: That's that one on like right on that corner part of the building, right? Like on the end of the alleyway.

[00:28:11] Justin Fonte: Yeah, where you and I went with Fawn and she treated us to too many shots.

[00:28:16] Liz Garibay: Yeah, that happens. Did you, when you're giving your tours, did you have to like get dressed up and like period? Stuffed out.

[00:28:24] Justin Fonte: Did you see that in Boston so much? Oh, I've been on a few of those. Fortunately not, but it was like, it was almost worse. Like the name of the company is Boston Crawling, like which I think is a play on the Boston Calling Music Festival and a pub crawl. But the logo was a further play on the word crawling and it was a cartoon baby. Okay, so I had to wear that shirt.

[00:28:45] Justin Kendall: Oh, I might have chosen the revolutionary outfit instead.

[00:28:52] Justin Fonte: Oh, funny. Liz, this is, and I'm sorry, I've taken us so far afield from the questions that I gave you, but. I like this line of questioning. So, I appreciate it. I mean, I listened to your episode this morning from Brewing After Hours with Sarah Flora, and you had mentioned all of these really great historic places over in Europe that you'd been to, but that bar in Austria sounded like a place I need to go. Yeah.

[00:29:18] Liz Garibay: Yeah. I mean, that's like, that's the thing is like, I go to a lot of these, you know, you go to this, these cities in these countries, and you kind of know a thing that you got to do, or a place you got to visit, but the best part is just wandering and getting lost and finding some, some random, you know, joint that will forever be in your head is the like magical paradise.

[00:29:43] Justin Fonte: So let's talk a little bit about the role that beer has played in Chicago's history. You're from Chicago, you know beer. I assume we could talk about this forever, but how has beer affected that city? Because we know that it's hugely pivotal in American craft beer right now. It's a market that you know, a lot of breweries that they're not in many other states, like a lot of them will just distribute, like spot distribute to Chicago. Like obviously there's like a really willing drinking public there. So what role has Chicago played in beer and what role has beer played in Chicago?

[00:30:17] Liz Garibay: Food and beverage have been kind of essential to our foundation, our identity from the get-go. There's a story I really like to tell about Chicago's transition from being a small little village to a township to a city. And in 1833, prior to 1833, we're just a little village and there's like, I don't know, 300 people living here. And we already have a handful of bars, of course. And the folks who were starting to make decisions for the small village go to this bar called the Sauganash Tavern. It's the hottest bar in town, a good fiddle off, a good gambling game, C&B scene kind of place. And its proprietor, Mark Beaubien, was a very charming, charismatic fella who would entertain his guests. And so the people who are making decisions thought, hey, let's get together, have a chat about the future of this area. And of course, they decide to go to the bar and they go to the Saganash. So they throw back some whiskey and we have conversation and they leave there having voted to make Chicago the village into an official township. And then four years later, in 1837, they do the exact same thing, go back to the bar and vote for the area to become an official city. So I'd like to say that the beginnings of our city are literally in the bowels of a bar, not once but twice. Right. And so that kind of sets the tone, I think, for a lot of who we are. I mean, you know, in the 1820s, we start to get A big wave of German immigrants coming through the Midwest as a whole does we have this no great shared hermit German heritage and tradition with other cities like Milwaukee St. Louis Cincinnati Cleveland. And so of course we're fortunate to inherit their beer making skills. And so slowly but surely. We become a beer-making town. Our city's very first moment of civil unrest happens in 1855. It's a lot of beer riots. It's basically immigrants uprising against a very anti-immigrant mayor that we had. And they fought his wanting to change laws that would hurt them, that would hurt tavern owners, hurt beer makers. and they rioted and they were very successful at it. So this moment, this very first moment of civil unrest happens around people's freedom to drink beer and to just drink in places with whom they wanted to. They had to stay organized for these riots. And, you know, this was a time when in Chicago, our mayors were elected annually. So, They decided to stay organized and that Mayor Levy Boone was up for reelection and so a lot of these immigrant groups didn't necessarily go vote because they didn't think they, it would matter, but they say what organized and they went to vote, and he was not reelected so. A lot of beer makers, a lot of tavern owners got very politically actively involved. And so for me, lager beer riots aren't just about, hey, this is the time for us to fight back for our freedom to consume alcohol, but it was more about the moment when Chicago really gets its identity as a political machine. And so that, I think, really sets the tone for our future. I mean, beer had a role during the 1871 fire, the 1893 World's Fair, and of course, into the early 20th century. So it's the industry that really sort of, I feel, played a major part in the growth of the city because it was these beer barons and these tavern owners who also contributed to society and helped build the city, helped regrow it after the fire. and it helped really take it into the next century. So definitely a major part of our history.

[00:33:57] Justin Kendall: How would you describe what the Chicago Brewseum scene is like now and how it might have changed over the years?

[00:34:05] Liz Garibay: I feel like Chicago is a place where we have, again, something for everyone. There are breweries that make such good beers in certain styles. There are breweries that are doing everything. There are breweries who are just sort of like, you know, sticking to this unique road that they've created. So I think it offers a lot of, we just have a really dynamic and a really just, I don't know, people are really talented here in making beer and, you know, We're a big city. We're very big city, so we just keep getting more and more breweries, and I'm happy that the more and more breweries we're getting to, we're getting continuously some good quality ones. So I think that, you know, in terms of styles, we're not known for one style. It's really, you can find everything here.

[00:34:56] Justin Fonte: Have y'all shed sort of the false image as the old style beer town?

[00:35:04] Liz Garibay: I don't think we ever want to shed that. Chicagoans are really proud of old style. And here's a kicker. It's not even made here, right? It was never right here. It's a Wisconsin product. But old style is really kind of near and dear to us because it's such it's even though it wasn't made here, it is our like heritage brand. right? There's some beautiful old style signs that still hang over bars. There's this weird interaction with it being affiliated with, you know, baseball and the Cubs because they were in there for a while. So it's sort of like, if you see someone drinking old style, you know that they are Chicago. And if people start talking about old style, immediately they'll start talking about their parents or their grandparents or great grandparents or something. So it's such a sort of an important heritage brand for us that I think that we will always fiercely hang on to it.

[00:35:55] Justin Kendall: We're all going to be headed to Chicago soon for MBWA. And I might be putting you on the spot a little bit here. That's not one of Jess's prepared questions. But if I, this will be my first time in Chicago. If you had to pick like three beer, either like styles or something that I should try to make sure I get like a Chicago Brewseum experience. Like what should I be drinking?

[00:36:17] Justin Fonte: Ooh, good one. An old style.

[00:36:20] Justin Kendall: Apparently old style might be one of them.

[00:36:22] Liz Garibay: You definitely need to drink some old style just because. I don't know. I mean, you know, it's hard for me to say just because, again, we have so many talented beer makers here, like Off Color Man. You know, what they do over there is just so goofy. You know, it's like when I read about some of John's Wild Ales, I don't even understand them. Right and even when he explains it to me, I still don't understand it because it's all about blending and the way he's just tasting stuff and then i'm like. Okay, and then he gives me a taste of it i'm like wow this isn't this is crazy good right, and so I just I feel like with off color everything is always consistently good. But i'm always being surprised. I'm always being educated, which I love. And then we've got just some damn good lager over at Metropolitan Brewing. They're just doing it, these classic styles, right? Revolution and Half Acre have that ale game dials in really well and do a couple other things. I don't necessarily know that I would say pick out a style. I would just maybe, really I would say, what part of town are you in? And I'll tell you where to go. All right, I'll keep you on speed dial just in case. Yeah, I mean, I'm definitely... When you guys are in town, please let me know because I will definitely... I can gladly put something together for you guys. Oh, that'd be awesome.

[00:37:42] Justin Fonte: So Liz, as someone who has studied centuries of beer's history, what is something that today's brewers should understand about the past that you think maybe they don't know about or don't appreciate?

[00:37:53] Liz Garibay: I don't necessarily... know that sometimes I feel like I'm too close to some of these histories. Right. And I just make assumptions. But I do hope that people realize how pivotal beer has been to the world, especially our history. I mean, you cannot talk about American history and the growth of our country without talking about the beer industry. This, you know, we have again, one of our sayings for the Brazilian is that beer is more than just a beverage. And that I think encompasses so many different things, but it really is about this vibrant industry that has significantly changed the game and really has defined in a way who we are as Americans. So that's when I think about the past, that's what I think of when it comes to beer. And I hope people think about beer in that way too. Awesome.

[00:38:43] Justin Fonte: Liz, we also know that you're on the board of directors for the Michael Jackson Foundation for Brewing and Distilling, Brooklyn Brewery Brewmaster. It's a lot of brews right in a row. Garrett Oliver, he of the excellent Foodie Instagram and probably doesn't like that I just called it foodie. So Garrett founded it in 2020 to provide scholarships for people of color to study and pursue industry careers. That organization has been a force since it was founded. They raise a ton of money. They give out so many scholarships. What has being a part of it been like for you?

[00:39:16] Liz Garibay: It's been pretty moving. I mean, you know, just from the moment that I got an email from Garrett wanting to chat, you know, I think like many of us, I've been following Garrett for a long time. I knew who he was. He's in this, you know, pantheon of beer gods in a way. And so being able to talk to him about what he was doing and get on a Zoom with him, It was pretty inspiring to hear about his own path to getting to the MJF and then, you know, his goals for it. And then, of course, being asked to run the board was pretty special. And, you know, it kind of makes you realize that, again, beer is more than just a beverage, right? That we're all in this for specific reasons that hopefully are greater than us. And in raising money and really the best part and we talk about this on the board is when you are able to tell someone that they have a scholarship to go to school and that they don't have to worry about the tuition. The moment that you see is so Unbelievably special. I had a meeting with one of our recent scholars, because he works for a brewery that we're doing a beer collab with and we had a meeting and the day before I just had an MJF board meeting where we had. decided who was getting scholarships. And so I knew that he was getting a scholarship. So I asked Garrett if I could get him on the phone so that he could tell him himself in person. So I pulled Zach aside and called Garrett. And he's like, you're actually calling Garrett right now? And I go, oh yeah, I am. But he's going to talk to you. And so Garrett let him know on the phone and, you know, his face and just like you get to see the tears well up in his eyes. It's just so incredible that we get to do that. And I've been so honored to be a part of that organization because I definitely think it's it's making some significant differences and change.

[00:41:15] Justin Kendall: Yeah, it's so awesome seeing like all the different people in beer that have been able to take advantage of that is so cool. Looking forward and your work in beer and the brewseum, what do you see how that will evolve in like the next five years time or so?

[00:41:34] Liz Garibay: Yeah, I mean, you know, we've been at this for a little bit now, and I think we want to continue to grow we've we've been on this really steady successful growth pattern, where we continue to have bigger partnerships more partnerships more collaborations the summit continues to grow in a variety of ways. the goal is to one day have an actual facility to do some really neat things in our own space. And so we actually just finished up a major strategic plan and really for people to better understand who we are, for more people to know who we are, and more people to just get involved in what we do because this is not just, you know, us and our boards, it's really everybody. And we hope that we created the Bruiseum really so that everybody involved in beer would feel like they have a space there at the Bruzeum.

[00:42:23] Justin Fonte: Awesome. Liz, this has been a delightful conversation and I can't wait for us to do this in person over beers in Chicago. Yeah. When are you guys going to be here? We are coming into town on the 9th.

[00:42:35] Liz Garibay: Of October?

[00:42:36] Justin Fonte: Yeah.

[00:42:37] Liz Garibay: Holy smokes. It's soon. All right. You guys got to email me so I can meet up for beers and introduce you to some people and it'd be great.

[00:42:47] Justin Fonte: Yeah, you got to take us to some of these bars.

[00:42:50] Liz Garibay: Oh, I would gladly take you to some of my favorite historic bars, take you to some brewery, show you around, tell you some story, whatever, or just drink.

[00:42:58] Justin Fonte: Perfect. Sounds great. We'll make a plan. But this has been great. I'm so glad you joined us. We know you're busy, so we really appreciate all the time you gave us. Thank you to Justin and Zoe for hanging out for this one. A great, great conversation. As always, an enormous thank you to Joe, our audio wizard, for all of the magic he works on the podcast, and everybody for listening. If you enjoyed the episode, please like, rate, and review it wherever you listen to podcasts. We'd love to hear your thoughts, so if you've got suggestions, feedback, hopefully nothing too mean. Drop us a note at podcast at Brewbound.com and we will catch you next week.