Brewbound Podcast: Making A Dunkin’ Spiked Run with Mass. Bay Brewing’s Leadership Team

[00:00:00] Zoe Licata: Next on The Brewbound Podcast, we go on a dunk and spike run with Harpoon's leadership team. Hello, and welcome to The Brewbound Podcast. I'm your host, Justin Kendall. I'm joined by my co host, Zoe Licata. What's up, Zoe?

[00:00:24] Bay Brewing: Hello. I don't know what's up. It's just the summer's over. I'm sad about it. That's about it.

[00:00:31] Zoe Licata: You dartied it up over Labor Day. We need an update because I'm an old person and I can't darty like I used to.

[00:00:39] Bay Brewing: I attended our friend group's annual Labor Day cornhole tournament, which is quickly turned into a block party. I made it to the semifinals, which I was very proud of myself for. a interesting beer related observation from my friend there, which was not prompted at all. But the girlfriend of the host came up at one point and she was walking around like picking up all the recycling and things. And she said, I have been picking up almost exclusively high noon cans and cardboard. And a couple years ago, those were majority Bud Light cardboard and cans. So someone who is not in beer is noticing a significant shift at the party of mainly high noons.

[00:01:26] Zoe Licata: Is that what you noticed as well, or did you see any other trends over the weekend?

[00:01:31] Bay Brewing: Lots of high noons, some like Coors Light and McUltra's. We were trying to mix it up a little bit, so we brought some of the new Loverboy variety packs, which were solid, pretty interesting, interesting flavors. And then, of course, there was some Dunkin' spike that a couple people got their hands on. But the word around was that they're pretty hard to get a pack of. Just the hard teas are available around here right now, and they sold out real fast.

[00:02:02] Zoe Licata: impressive all right we're living in a spiked spirits-based seltzer hard tea hard lemonade world yeah sorry craft folks but i don't think i saw a single craft beer in the five or six coolers oh boy and you live in new england

[00:02:24] Bay Brewing: this was a block party that was probably 60% people in their like mid-20s and then the rest were folks in their like mid-50s.

[00:02:36] Zoe Licata: Okay, I'd be a little bit concerned about the mid-50s.

[00:02:41] Bay Brewing: Yeah, those are the ones mainly they were drinking a lot of that like domestic beer.

[00:02:45] SPEAKER_??: Yeah.

[00:02:46] Zoe Licata: Well, we are going to be talking about craft beer, and there's going to be a lot of drinking of craft beer in Denver. We're going to brew talks. We're going to the Great American Beer Festival. We're doing brew talks ahead of the Great American Beer Festival. It's funny how that works. It's Thursday, September 21st, Cervantes Masterpiece, noon to 3 p.m. Mountain Time. Tickets are available now. We've got two and a half talks, two and a quarter. We're going to catch up with Colorado Brewers Guild. We're going to talk national draft trends with Sam Calagione from Dogfish Head, Jason Murphy from Buffalo Wild Wings, Lori Scheffler from Tamron Consulting. So we're going to cover national draft trends. And we know that things haven't recovered to pre-pandemic levels. But what are some opportunities? clearly there are some cha Buffalo Wild Wings can gi of what's happening at ba that pours more draft bee in the nation and just dig then we're going to get i Dave Thibodeau from Bay Brewing, Karen Hertz from Holidayly Brewing, Drew Watson from Hops and Pie, and then we're gonna have a distributor perspective, and we're still locking that down, so I don't wanna give anything away yet, but we got a panel of four, and it'll be great. And we'll feed you, and you'll get a couple of beers for the ticket price, you'll get a network, and then you'll be able to go off to the Great American Beer Festival or just disappear into the mountain night

[00:04:24] Bay Brewing: Sounds fun. I'm excited. Yeah, we're doing things a little bit different and really kind of focusing on draft for this event because it's been such a big topic and we've heard people talk numerous times about just the health of draft or the lack thereof. So it's going to be great to have that natural perspective and then big more regional in a place where craft beer is such a more mature market and we could possibly see where things could be going for other places based on what's happening in the Colorado area. going to be two really interesting conversations, and I'm just happy to be back at another BrewTalks.

[00:04:59] Zoe Licata: And Great American Beer Festival. I'm excited to hang out there for a little bit, although I'll probably be in the alcohol-free oasis for a time, but I'm sure I can break out of that.

[00:05:11] Bay Brewing: You won't be alone, it seems like. There'll be others.

[00:05:15] Zoe Licata: Clearly, there are a lot these days. And if you like BrewTalks, you're gonna love Brewbound Live. We're doing that December 6th and 7th in Marina Del Rey, and we've got a lot of speakers coming on. We are gonna be announcing them in very short order, so stay tuned for that, but tickets are available now. And this is like, Brewbound Live is basically, what, BrewTalks on steroids?

[00:05:42] Bay Brewing: Yeah, it's like our Super Bowl. It's a big time. It's where we have two full days of conversations, of panels, of speakers, of data presentations, tons of networking opportunities, parties, catching up with folks. It's a really good time. We're trying to have lots of conversations that will give you some helpful takeaways, no matter what aspect of the industry you're in. So it's always a good time, an educational time, but a fun time.

[00:06:12] Zoe Licata: Well, let's get into this week's episode. And this week's featured interview is with, I guess we'll call them the Duncan Spike team. Yeah. Mass Bay Brewing, Dan Kenary, Nathaniel Davis, and Val Toothman are all here. Harpoon, MassBay has been working on Duncan projects for six years now, but as you'll hear, this is sort of a reboot of what they're doing. Everything has been sort of beer focused, but now we've got hard coffees and hard teas. And I feel like that's maybe a better direction to go for this, but we'll find out. And next week, Zoe and I will talk a little bit about the brands because one, I didn't have a chance to sample them yet. And Zoe, I don't think she's had all of them.

[00:06:57] Bay Brewing: Yeah, we've got some of them under the belt, but we still gotta get some of those. Those hard teams are hard to come by, so we'll do a full rundown next week.

[00:07:06] Zoe Licata: So, news of the week, and you've been probably reading this all in the Brewbound newsletter, that new newsletter out there, and if you've not subscribed to the new newsletter, I suggest you do, because it is not anything like the old newsletter, and it's aged me at least 10 years.

[00:07:26] Bay Brewing: There's a lot of content going on and we're putting a lot of work into it. So I highly recommend and there's stuff in there that you're not going to see on our website. So please subscribe.

[00:07:37] Zoe Licata: Yes. So let's get into the news of the week. And that starts with Weathered Souls is seeking a new equity partner. And that's because one of its co-founders is wanting to exit the business to spend more time with family. And this isn't Marcus Baskerville leaving. Let's let's clarify that this is his partner, Michael, who he founded the brewery with in 2016. And if you're out there and you own a brewery, you know it's not easy to do. And this is a brewery that's kind of blown up in recent years. I mean, you look at what Weathered Souls started with Black is Beautiful, and now they've expanded from San Antonio to Charlotte. And that Black is Beautiful project keeps rolling. It's got volume two out now this year. and just a lot of different things going on. But running a craft brewery is very hard. Let's emphasize that. So if you are interested in getting into the business, though, this is a big opportunity, I would say.

[00:08:45] Bay Brewing: Yeah. We've been saying over and over again, this is becoming a very common story of people getting out of craft, but there are others trying to get back into it, whether they're buying back a brewery, or they're trying to buy up 1 of these businesses that people are stepping away from. So. This is the time period that we're in with craft and it's interesting to see Another Round happening. Whoever wants to step into that role, Weathered Souls seems to be one of these breweries that is really trying to make a different statement out there, trying to set themselves apart in this wave of craft breweries. We've talked to Marcus Baskerville about their expansion with their tap rooms and all the fun things going on there. Definitely a lot going on for someone who is willing to take it on.

[00:09:34] Zoe Licata: And speaking of one of those breweries or brewery founders that have bought back their brewery, Appalachian Mountain Brewery, they announced this week a joint venture with North Carolina's fellow North Carolinian brewery, Green Man. So they're going to be producing all their beers for distribution at Green Man's facility in Asheville. They're going to be canning all the product there. And it was described as a joint venture. This sounds a little bit more like a contract brewing partnership, but Still, very notable, you know, and you see these companies sort of partnering up. Appalachian Mountain Brewery needed production after, well, you know, when you buy back your brewery from AB, you're either gonna be paying AB to brew your beer or you're gonna be paying somebody else to unless you have the facilities to do it and they just don't have the capabilities they need to put out the beer for distribution.

[00:10:31] Bay Brewing: This story encapsulates more of those trends of 2023 that we've seen over and over again. It's owners buying back a brewery from a larger beer company. It's a brewery looking to another brewery for help when it comes to capacity or production, using some resource exchange to help sustain themselves and specifically contract brewing. We've seen a lot of breweries go into that to either get more space where they just are increasing so much they can't produce it or breweries have the capacity and they need someone else's beer to fill it up. So it's just all these things that we've seen multiple times this year going on in this one story.

[00:11:18] Zoe Licata: And then you covered this story and it was Russian River is, speaking of canning, canning a couple of their flagship beers.

[00:11:27] Bay Brewing: Yeah, this was a story that dropped on Friday, or I guess it was like technically late Thursday. But it's kind of big news that this is the first time that Russian River is going to put any of its core beers into distribution in cans. They are putting out XPS pills and Velvet Glow, which is their Helms lager. Both were previously only available in bottles or on draft. So they are going to be packaged in 12-ounce cans beginning this fall with a full transition expected by early 2024. So Russian River co-owner Natalie Tolerzo sent an email to us, sent us the letter that they sent to wholesalers, just notifying them of the change. But she said that the response so far has been very positive, overwhelmingly positive is exactly what she said. She also put out a note out there, no one freak out that they're going to be getting rid of their iconic bottles for the whole portfolio. This is just going to be a change for these two beers for right now and they're going to see how it works, see how they sell on shelves and all those fun things. this is not a portfolio-wide change. It's due in part to something that we talked to Natalie about earlier this year on the podcast, about them changing their sour house into a logger house, and so they have this increased capacity to make these loggers and can move them into cans.

[00:13:02] Zoe Licata: It's a great move. I think it's just it tells you where we are in craft brewing. Like we've said this multiple times in this episode, but it's like you see this move away from sour production to loggers. You know, they're more commercially viable than the sour beers. But it's nice to hear, though, that they are sticking with their traditional bottles and those aren't going away or anything like that.

[00:13:28] Bay Brewing: Yeah, Lawrence just told me yesterday, he said, I think I'm getting out of my sour phase. I think it's over. So he is someone who was one of the like, sours were his thing forever. And that's kind of how both of us got into craft beer. And now he's more about the lager stew. So he's, I guess, the embodiment of this change that has happened.

[00:13:46] Zoe Licata: So another thing that's going on and Talk about leadership changes. And this one Summit Brewing founder, Mark Stutrud, is going to retire in March. So he still has a little bit to go. But the Minnesota craft brewery has named Brandon Bland its next president and CEO.

[00:14:05] Bay Brewing: I mean, the list that we put at the end of these stories of the amount of leadership or people that have announced they're leaving, it's just getting longer and longer. So he now joins that list. I mean, we've had Steve Fetchheimer from New Belgium. We had Jeff White from Sierra Nevada. I mean, we can go on for ages. You can check out our coverage to see that full list and all the previous stories about it. But. Yeah, I mean you're it gets to a point you've been in the business for a long time. It's time to step out and have someone else fill your shoes. But he was there for 37 years. That's a long time.

[00:14:41] Zoe Licata: It speaks to needing to have succession plans. And clearly they have the successor in line to take over for Mark. But we've seen this at other breweries and it doesn't last forever. You know, you may think that it will, or you may think that you'll be running the brewery for the rest of your life. And some of you may be, but some people would like to retire at some point.

[00:15:05] Bay Brewing: It would be nice.

[00:15:07] Zoe Licata: I dream of it sometimes. All right. Let's play Another Round or Tabbing Out. And this one, it's a little bit older, but a couple of weeks ago, there was some questions thrown around by a reporter in the White House press corps asking the press secretary if President Biden intended to institute a two beer per week limit for Americans. And to her credit, she was completely flabbergasted, like, and blown away, like, this is an actual question. But apparently, this was an actual question. I think it stems from what's going on in Canada. So Zoe, are you buying Another Round that this is really an issue? Because I do believe that there is a larger issue, maybe coming to the shores sooner than later, just things that have been happening with the World Health Organization. But do you think that this is something that's going to be coming to the U.S. anytime soon? And do you think the American consumer is actually going to be like, oh, yeah, OK.

[00:16:20] Bay Brewing: No, I feel like every, not only every year, but every couple of months we get conflicting headlines of someone being like alcohol is doing this and this and this to you. And then the next one would be like, well, if you have two a day, then it will help with this. And it's just like, I, I think Americans are pretty hard pressed in their ways, but I don't think we're going to really change because when a study told us that you should only drink two drinks per week, But we also have seen that, you know, a non-ALC is getting more popular. So, I mean, I think, sure, the trends might change, but it's not going to be from something like this.

[00:17:02] Zoe Licata: Yeah, I think that this stuff gets a little bit overblown, and I can be completely wrong in that, you know, and it could really be a concern. I know that there were concerns that the Beer Institute had over the dietary guides, right, on the number of drinks that you're supposed to have per day, but Ultimately, no changes were made to that, and I would be hard-pressed to see any changes get made to this or any recommendation. I mean, your doctor would probably tell you the same thing, but still, do you listen to your doctor on everything that they tell you that you can eat and drink? And no, you don't.

[00:17:43] Bay Brewing: No, I'm still having ice cream all the time, and that's probably not recommended. though i did find i learned through the the coverage and hype of this that i didn't know was that the guidelines at least through like the cdc are different for men and women i did not know that i wonder if that will change possibly i don't know i mean if there's so many things now that are changing with like just gender in general like i wonder if there'll just be a human like recommendation

[00:18:15] Zoe Licata: Well, I think that the robots that are going to replace us, they're not even going to be worried about this.

[00:18:22] Bay Brewing: They could have as many beers as they wanted.

[00:18:25] Zoe Licata: I welcome our robot overlords, but, you know, not everyone will.

[00:18:31] Bay Brewing: Are you just saying that in case they're listening?

[00:18:33] Zoe Licata: I'm recording this on a laptop. There's an Internet connection. It's going to live somewhere on the Internet. Of course, I'm saying it just so they can hear it. All right, let's get to our featured interview with the Duncan Spike team. Just a few weeks ago, Harpoon parent company Bay Brewing revealed its latest Duncan released under the Duncan Spiked banner. This Year Six a twofer with four hard iced teas and four hard iced coffees. So here to discuss are Dan Kenary, the CEO and co-founder of Bay Brewing. Thanks for being here, Dan. Thanks for having me. Delighted to be here. We've also got Nathaniel Davis, President and Chief Growth Officer and Ventures Officer for MassBay. Thanks for being here, Nathaniel. How's the fall, isn't it? Thanks for having me. Yeah, you got too many titles. And last but not least, we've got Val Toothman, Chief Marketing Officer. I like it. That's very simple. I could just say CMO.

[00:19:31] Year Six: Yeah, there you go. See, Nathaniel, one of the original architects of Spring Heat Spiced Wheat Beer, the longest draft called known to man, also has a long title. Shocking.

[00:19:44] Zoe Licata: That would be a hell of a draft call, too.

[00:19:46] Year Six: Yeah, that was the original shock talk.

[00:19:49] Zoe Licata: Well, this is the sixth year that MassBay has released a Dunkin' branded product, and this year marks a big shift to hard coffee and hard iced tea. So I guess, you know, the first question is obviously hard teas are killing it. Hard coffee has had a tougher go of it. Why make this pivot?

[00:20:10] Dan Kenary: Well just seem like a natural extension of what we've been doing with Duncan over the years with starting with copy Porter then moving on to the huge category of jelly donut IPAs and then pumpkin spice latte in the fall. And we have a great relationship with him and just started talking earlier this year about what are your thoughts about. kind of expanding into hard teas and hard coffees. And they said quickly, that sounds like a great idea. And we were off to the races. I think it was the six months from the first conversation to actually having product in the marketplace, which is a testament to the relationship that we built with the Duncan team over the last five or six years. That's not a bad turnaround time on innovation. No, and Nathaniel Davis talk about he's he's the one who did all the hard work. I just got to talk about it and take credit for it. He's he's the guy that made it all happen in that short time frame.

[00:21:05] Val Toothman: Justin, I think you sort of characterized it as Year Six. I think this is I think this is different. And I think it's important that it's kind of separate from the beer collaborations. I mean, the Harpoon X Duncan collab work that goes back five years is the foundation of the relationship. But this is really you know, we hit the reset button and are trying something completely different. This is not Duncan meets Harpoon, playing in the fun, you know, donut and coffee intersects with beer styles space. This is, from a consumer standpoint, you wouldn't even necessarily see Harpoon all over it. If you dug in or if you, you know, knew the industry, you knew that we were behind making and distributing it. But it's really very much Duncan led in a mainstream category, which is just different than what we've done in the past. So it's a complete reset, frankly.

[00:21:58] Bay Brewing: It certainly feels different. It feels like, especially in a time right now where we're seeing a lot of other companies that aren't necessarily in the bed bug space starting to get into it, it just seems to fit along those similar lines in a way that some of maybe the previous collabs didn't.

[00:22:13] Val Toothman: That's the inspiration to be sure to reset so that I mean, I think it's important that it's that is viewed as as distinct. And that's quite deliberate from our perspective. I mean, there's still Duncan Harpoon pumpkin beer out in the fall, you know, six pack bottles and and cans and like and that has its, you know, fans and its favorites. But that's different. And it's actually we're going to great pains to make sure it's viewed differently. We think this is already you know, breaking through geographic barriers and the threshold of national level interest, which is not where the collaboration beers were playing, really.

[00:22:50] Bay Brewing: I think it's only appropriate that we dive a little deeper into the coffee part first, because it is Dunkin'. And like Justin mentioned, coffee for the spiked can coffee space, it's been a little bit iffy. We saw the discontinuation of that Pabst version of a hard coffee, was it a year ago or so? What is it about that space that seems like an opportunity for you and how can you make your pathway a little bit different than others?

[00:23:22] Val Toothman: For me, what's different about this is Duncan. Nobody has jumped into the category with a brand that is as tightly associated with, you know, mainstream coffee as Duncan. There's certainly been some premium plays. And then there's been some, you know, guys from the alcohol business, you know, Pabst and the like that have dabbled in the space. Duncan has such an electric sort of brand affiliation such a passionate group of people that engage with the brand. It takes it to a whole new whole new space. And if we've been speaking to people about it and you see it in the mainstream media it's as if it's the first one that ever thought of coffee and alcohol coming together. And then they're like oh yeah but there is Irish coffee. and there's espresso martinis, I guess coffee, but it's as if they hadn't noticed the hard and spiked coffee category. I think that's a reset too because of the power of the Dunkin brand. We also see the growth and continued emergence of iced coffee as a category continuing to evolve going later in the afternoons. This is just an extension from the late afternoon into the evening with a brand that everybody wants to take there. That's my point of view.

[00:24:35] Dan Kenary: Yeah, you're absolutely right. The excitement, because it's Dunkin, the tea market dwarfs the coffee, but the initial orders for us, there's just so much excitement about the coffee, like what this is going to, everyone has, or an awful lot of people have their personal relationship with Dunkin, and it's with the Dunkin coffee. And so we're getting just a ton of inquiries and a lot of excitement about that. And I, it's going to, Daniel says, it's going to be interesting to us to see how this settles out and what the drinking occasions are that where this is most applicable.

[00:25:06] Year Six: Yeah, and you know, I think the other thing, it's always much more fun to Monday morning quarterback other people's things, right, in the innovation space, but you really learn a lot. And so number one, kudos to Pass for kind of breaking, you know, breaking the mold, kind of break through the ceiling, giving something a try, because they learn something, the total industry learn something about what works, what doesn't work, and then you can all kind of retrospective on why. And I think, you know, as an innovator and kind of a chronic innovator over time, you know, if I had to diagnose it, what Pabst did was lead with Pabst Blue Ribbon, which was a little bit difficult from a consumer perspective. Is it beer? Is it coffee? How does it read? So something like the, you know, the five year partnership that's happened between Harpoon and Dunkin Donuts has a space. has a drinker, but it's potentially very different than what is happening in this Duncan Spiked space. And I think the team did an amazing job. And I, you know, I get to be the beneficiary of it coming in, but can claim no ownership of really leading with Duncan. And this looks like Duncan doing a Spiked product that is 100% coffee flavor, forward the same, you know, iced coffee that you know and love from Dunks, now brought to you pre-spiked and ready to drink in a convenient format. And I do think while there have been some, you know, tests laid and some pilots run, we as an industry, potentially this gives us the opportunity to break open something new and so exciting to have MassB Brewing at the forefront of that.

[00:26:41] Zoe Licata: So what do you see is some of those occasions? Do you break into different day parts? You know, is it a nighttime occasion? Like, how do you sort of see that playing out?

[00:26:51] Val Toothman: I see the coffee as transition, wind down, pregame, tailgate, for sure, right? Whereas it's different from tea. Tea is just refreshment, pure and simple, in the Dunkin' way, but we're talking about coffee. Coffee's a little more, it's got its own thing. It's the transition, it's pick-me-up, it's extension into the into the evenings, but it's not a it's not a session refresher, I don't think. And that's what we've heard playback. So I think it's got its space. I mean, I love the way Duncan phrased it was kind of 7 a.m., 7 p.m. Right. It's a it's an evening spin, a more social spin on on what people are enjoying increasingly into the afternoon. And as they lean into iced and refreshment as you know, as part of their franchise, this brings it increasingly into the evening and into a social space, which is a nice extension from their perspective as well.

[00:27:46] Bay Brewing: Yeah, I've talked about it on our podcast before that it's not unheard of to see we're grabbing like our medium ice and maybe adding a couple nips in there or something to get you energized and start and ready for your day, but not day as in my work day, but ready before you're hanging out for your evening.

[00:28:06] Zoe Licata: Oh, the truth comes out.

[00:28:08] Bay Brewing: I promise you this, this cold brew that I currently am drinking does not have any of said nips in them.

[00:28:15] Dan Kenary: This is a judgment-free zone, Zoe. Yeah.

[00:28:19] Bay Brewing: I typically wait until we're a little further into the day before that, but it just makes so much sense to me, at least in a place in Boston where Duncan is such a core brand to everyone's daily lives. It's already kind of integrating ourselves, trying to integrate it into those more evening sessions that now it's coming out in a more convenient way. It just, it makes total sense.

[00:28:44] Year Six: Yeah, and I think there are those daytime drinking, even brunch sort of occasions, right? Tailgating being the perfect kind of tip of the spear of that occasion where people are, you know, it's a day part where coffee resonates and where alcohol is being consumed and it might just be kind of magic elixir of tailgate season for some people as well. So I think it both extends that Dunkin brand, but then also makes really natural connection points to existing consumer behaviors in new day parts in some, you know, in some ways and shapes for beer, but the fact that it's ready to go doesn't, you know, you can control the amount of alcohol in it, etc. There's some great functional benefits from a consumer behavior standpoint as well.

[00:29:28] Zoe Licata: Our tea has been largely dominated by one of your neighbors, Twisted Tea, Boston Beer. They've got 90% of the category. There's obviously a lot of challenger brands that are coming in, and now you have your own challenger brand. Clearly, Dunkin' has the history with iced tea, and they have the refresher brands, and you're gonna be able to lean on those brands, too, with this. What do you see as the opportunity there? What can this become?

[00:29:59] Val Toothman: What I see is beyond the power of the brand, which we've hit pretty hard in terms of interest and talk value, Dunkin for many means flavor. And I think that makes it a platform automatically, right? There's their flavored coffee space, but their teas, particularly anchored in green tea refreshers, which are these tropical fruit blends is super interesting for the hard tea space as well. So green tea and black tea are both just wonderful refreshments. You've got that kind of tannic astringency at the end that dries out even a sweet and balances it so that it's super refreshing. Green tea, I think, is super unique within the mainstream hard tea category, plus tropical fruit flavors, really juice forward. kind of top notes on top of there is just a fun place. Electric colors, vibrant sort of appearance that you can see from very far away, and that's the Duncan Signature. When you're in those refreshers, it's electric colors, combo flavors that are kind of tropical, a little bit exotic, and often one you know and one you've never heard of, like dragon fruit. You know, these kinds of things are super enticing, intriguing, all on this awesome green tea base, which is just pure refreshment, which is just a fun place and platform to do more of. So that's what I get excited about.

[00:31:18] Year Six: And I think that's what, when you think about breaking into the hard tea category, Boston has done such an awesome job for such a long time with Twisted Tea. I mean, as an innovator at Anheuser-Busch, it was always the white whale. Like, how do you get some of the Twisted Tea magic, right? And to be honest, like, we was troubled because no matter how many consumer groups you did, there really wasn't a chink in the armor. The liquid was really good. The brand was really strong. And so there wasn't a whole lot of opportunity, you know, for a new to the world brand to innovate. And I think what was incredibly smart that there was the relationship in place to work from and leverage on the Mass Bay Brewing side is that, you know, you can do these things that are very different than where Twisted Tea has gone with a brand that is already credible in the space. So we, you know, at Mass Bay, in the partnership with Duncan, we essentially have already operated the world's largest sampling programs. Through consumers already knowing and loving strawberry dragon fruit and mango pineapple, or these refreshers that already exist in the universe and people know they love the taste profile of, we're just bringing it to them with the addition of kind of the spiked alcohol aspect, which pulls it into different occasions and different day parts. So I think there's room for both of these to obviously live in that universe. But i think it's a taste profile that isn't from a new to the world brand that's cool and interesting that people have an enormous amount of passion for their palate is already familiar with and they're excited about and bring that somewhere new is exciting and i think there's no better. kind of proof point of that than the fact that number one, when the news leaked, it was kind of Twitter X blew up, right, with all these amazing memes from consumers who could not wait to get their hands on it, much like your friends, Miss Zoe. And then on top of that, the industry was super interested, right? So when the press release went out, plus the leak, there was over 7 billion media impressions to Today Show segments. when Duncan posted their 7 a.m. 7 p.m. post that they did on behalf of the partnership on their Instagram account, which is, you know, 2.3 million followers. It was the highest shared asset they had ever posted by 2X. Wow. So, I mean, consumers are who love the Duncan brand. You guys have probably seen operating, you know, in the beverage space, how much passion people have for the Duncan brand and the people who are passionate about Duncan. You know, the harbinger of an incredible innovation is 1 that is so remarkable that people remark on it. And that's what has already proven to be at least the seed of an amazing opportunity for us to build on in partnership with Duncan. you know, 1500 comments over 100,000 likes and shares, right? Like these sorts of things are stats that dreams are made of. And I think, you know, will we be able to accomplish what the Boston beer company and twisted have over time, hopefully not only accomplish it, but, you know, be equal to or even above it as we continue to grow in partnership with Duncan.

[00:34:23] Bay Brewing: What I think is also interesting about both these launches is that they're both going to be year-round offerings. And particularly something like a team maybe in the past, like five, six years ago, would typically be like a summer seasonal or something. Is the decision to make them year-round, is that just where the space is now? Is that because of the Dunkin brand, it's a year-round brand? What is the decision and strategy there?

[00:34:49] Dan Kenary: I'd say it was probably a combination of both of those things, though. I mean, the Dunkin' brand obviously is a year-round brand, and the Space now is a year-round. So, yeah, teas do skew seasonally. Coffees, we're going to be kind of curious. Will they be counter-seasonal a little bit? But we're very confident that there'll be a spot in people's refrigerator and coolers for these products year-round.

[00:35:10] Val Toothman: What's the singles opportunity with these two? Oh, I think that's major, right? I mean, the category's got a lot of single server opportunity. We're launching with 19.2s, right, rather than 24 as a slight differentiator that's sort of a wink and a nod to our heritage and our production platforms as well. But the 19.2s being our single server, we brought out what we call the slightly suite tea and the original coffee, right? So that we're not crowding things out with flavor right out of the gate in single serves and in four packs of the coffee and six packs of the teas for now, while we really seed and allow people to explore with the sampler packs. But I think that I think the singles are gonna fly.

[00:35:57] Year Six: Yeah, and the F&B space, right? The singles are always ready to mingle. And I think this is the perfect product for it.

[00:36:05] Zoe Licata: Do you see an on-premise opportunity here too?

[00:36:08] Dan Kenary: Yes, but not nearly as significant with craft beer, for example. We think there will be an opportunity, but TBD on how exciting that is.

[00:36:17] Val Toothman: I think it's an interesting place to innovate and do something different. But I agree, it's not where brands are built in this category necessarily. I think it'll be fun to think about maybe draft or maybe it's just large format, whatever form that comes, but it's not going to be our first. We want to be led by the enthusiastic crowd. We went with the relatively tight set of SKUs that we're launching with that allows us to get feedback in order to react. We'll let the very vocal and enthusiastic consumers help guide where we go next.

[00:36:57] Bay Brewing: Something about both of these is that they also contain a small amount of caffeine, which you guys describe as less than a typical cup of coffee. But we've seen that caffeine and alcohol, there can be some controversy in that space. And we've seen some energy brands who've come in who just said, no, we're not going to do caffeine in our BevElk offerings. Have you faced any challenges with working with having a product that has a little bit of both in there?

[00:37:21] Val Toothman: To clarify that, I mean, the coffees, the caffeine comes in naturally with the ingredients in question. The coffees are about 30 milligrams per 12 ounce serving, whereas, you know, a solid cup of coffee is 100 milligrams, maybe in an eight ounce serving, I think is the standard. Right. So so it's a little less than a cup, a third of a cup of coffee, not a a little lighter but about less than a third. And honestly I mean we're using the ingredients that are natural targeting a flavor profile. It's neither positioned as energy or caffeine being focused and also frankly The entire party category is caffeinated, right? And just because it's new and it's Duncan, there's a lot of people asking the questions and we're transparent and clarifying it. But a very large category and most of the brands that are brewed with real tea. in that category are caffeinated and at a similar level and nobody's debating that. So I don't anticipate a lot of pushback. It's more been curiosity. We answer the question, it's natural, it comes in, it's pretty light. This isn't an energy category. It's already very adult focused with Dunkin, coffee and tea drinkers anyway. So I don't anticipate a lot of anxiety or resistance, frankly. We're going where the category already is. not pushing any envelopes or pushing any boundaries on that front at all.

[00:38:47] Zoe Licata: As far as the consumer goes, do you open yourself up to a different drinker with these type of products? Like what sort of consumer demographics are you expecting to be attracted to this product?

[00:39:02] Year Six: Yeah, I mean, you know, we're going after the drinker who, number one, already probably loves and is enjoying tea and coffee in their everyday life. And so, you know, one of the things I've learned over time in innovation is it's hard to get somebody to drink a hard version of something they don't already know they love. So that was kind of way back in the day when, you know, let's say 10 years ago, when I was innovating in what do we call kind of hard seltzer. The reason you couldn't call it hard seltzer is people didn't think they liked seltzer. And so then the right time for that innovation was the Harbinger seltzer displays the size of Timbuktu sitting and smacking you in the face as you walked into Whole Foods, right? La Croix everywhere. Okay, now the time is right that hard seltzer fits. And so you know, when when you think about who is drinking iced tea and iced coffee, it's generally kind of, you know, it runs the gamut, you know, it can skew a little bit younger and that kind of 21 to 27 year old age range, which, you know, there's more occasions, I think those those drinkers have it across more occasions in their beverage portfolio, but certainly there's also, there's a reason as Duncan just did their most recent campaign on the ice front with the shaking cup that it's Martha Stewart, right? So it really like spans generations as people who love that taste profile and are, you know, occasions in their drinking set where they're looking for something with a little bit of alcohol pick-me-up. So I think it'll probably center of gravity go 21 to 27, but I think there's an opportunity for it, like any F&B, to kind of run the age gamut and the psychographic portfolio.

[00:40:46] Val Toothman: But to circle back on sort of almost where we started, we're quite deliberately not anchoring this in the mass bay consumer, right? I mean, are they different consumers? They're going to be in different geographies. We expect this to expand way beyond the core mass bay footprint. If you look at the cans, I think you've got a set to taste with your friends over the weekend, you will not see Harpoon or MassBay all over it. It's really Dunkin-led. So it's bringing them into the hard-spiked adult category rather than trying to capture Dunkin fans within the MassBay, Craft Brewer, Core Portfolio, and Drinker set. So to the extent those are restrictive geographically or demographically, we don't have any of those constraints. We're really looking, you know, talking to mainstream Duncan producers and bringing them later into the evening, which is a bigger ocean to swim in than we're used to on purpose.

[00:41:45] Dan Kenary: And Nathaniel Davis mean, we've been fielding calls from all over the country, from wholesalers, and we're having wonderful conversations with potential partners from all corners of the country because Duncan resonates in a lot of markets.

[00:41:59] Zoe Licata: Yeah. So is it to go fast and get it to those markets or, you know, is it to be a little more deliberate and stick to the ones that you've got tested out and then, you know, reevaluate and spring, fall, whatever it is.

[00:42:16] Val Toothman: We're mapping the details now of what the springs looks like, but the spring will be a big leap forward in terms of geography. That's our expectation. That gives us a nice solid sort of six months to learn, adapt, but things on communication and a few little details like that, we can make some minor adjustments. Otherwise, we're prioritizing with whom we go and where we go, in what order. We expect the biggest wave to be in spring of 24, but there will be more waves to follow because we won't be fully penetrated and we won't be fully across the U.S. in the spring, right? So we are fielding a lot of those calls, as Dan said.

[00:43:00] Zoe Licata: How many states do you think you'll be in in the spring?

[00:43:03] Val Toothman: Good question. I think I'm going to hold off nailing that one down with a few more weeks of discussions, you know, but we're, you know, we're looking to add, you know, in the order of 15 to 20 more on top of the pilot states, whether that's tighter in and narrow or as broad as possible as among other things. we're right on the front end of the wave and we're calibrating capacity, among other things, right? So in which case, prioritization is going to be super important. And that's both our ability to service it with excellence, the wholesaler partners and their enthusiasm and their support for it, which is a big deal, but also where is Duncan's most vigorous supportive audience, right? When you're outside of the greater New England kind of area, they've got some real surprising surprisingly strong pockets all the way down the East Coast, the whole Eastern half of the country. And then whether it's driven by, you know, displaced Bostoners, you know, in the West Coast, but they've got, you know, pretty big following pretty far West as well. Right. So it's just a matter of prioritization and time. But we're not going to go all at once and blanket it badly. We also want excellence to be part of the part of the program.

[00:44:11] Zoe Licata: You've received a lot of great organic media so far and attention. What's the plan to sort of bolster that? And what are you going to do to get cans in Martha's hands?

[00:44:23] Year Six: It would be Martha and Snoop Dogg. So we're working very closely in partnership with the Duncan team to figure out what is the right size. Again, we want to grow this thing at the pace of its, you know, of its potential and deliver with excellence. I think one of the things to Nathaniel's point, this in a good and in a challenging way is challenging the capacity and helping us figure out the right partnerships to continue to grow. There's a good point at which people are like chasing down vans of our distributors trying to figure out if they have Duncan spiked inside. And that's really awesome for a certain amount of time. And then you got to make sure that's going to turn into a repeat buying cycle. You don't have people doing that forever or shelves empty or those sorts of things. So we have a really strong marketing plan. We want to make sure we pace that marketing plan out to keep demand high in the areas where we are, but also not get people so excited when we can't offer it to them yet. So we will certainly partner up with the Dunkin team, figure out where they have properties, celebrities, influencers, that we can continue to leverage and then do, obviously, in partnership with them, paid media, cool festivals, events. We've got some cool stuff with spiked partners that are already in relationship with the brewery as events for 2024. A lot of stuff already in the works, but again, really focusing on how do we grow the marketing at the pace with which our footprint and our distribution can grow so that we don't kind of like blow our wad out of the gate, and then people are looking for us, they can't find us, and they forget about us. We want to open each market as if it is new, so that our wholesale and our retail partners that are in those areas, we don't start with frustrated consumers. We instead ignite demand as distribution is already in place.

[00:46:22] Zoe Licata: Well, Val, Nathaniel Davis, thanks for walking us through everything. Excited to try these over the Labor Day weekend. Enjoy.

[00:46:30] Dan Kenary: We are too. To more than try.

[00:46:36] Year Six: I will tell you, it was a great, I made my first trip out to our Harpoon Brewery there in the seaport last week. And I had a box that our wonderful PR leader, Megan, had put together for me. It had all the Duncan Spike coffees and teas. And I had this lovely quarter zip on when I was checking out of my hotel room and the front desk clerk was like, oh, Duncan Spike. And he goes, what's in that box. I've got some different things in here. It's like, is it the coffee? I need to try the coffee. I said, well, it might, but we'll have to see. So I think that sort of excitement has us just incredibly excited about what the future has has to offer for this for this brand and for the future of kind of growth for Bay Brewing.

[00:47:23] Zoe Licata: Yeah, you got to make sure those shelves are stocked or else you can't wear that out in public.

[00:47:28] Year Six: I know, right? My husband's in supply chain. He likes to say that high demand is a good problem to have, but still a problem, right? And so we got to make sure we pace that growth and keep everybody incredibly excited and on board about what we're bringing to the world.

[00:47:43] Zoe Licata: Well, thanks again for doing this.

[00:47:45] Year Six: Thanks for hosting us, guys.

[00:47:47] Zoe Licata: And that's our show for this week. Thanks to Zoe for all she does. Thanks to Joe, our one man audio team. And thanks to all of you for listening. We'll be back next week.