Brewbound Podcast: Live From the California Craft Beer Summit

[00:00:00] Jessica Infante: I saw a photo of a discarded Borg during Boston St. Patrick's Day that somebody had written a shipping up to Borgston on. Oh, that's a good one. Yeah, I did see some Borgs.

[00:00:22] Justin Kendall: Hello and welcome to The Brewbound podcast. My name is Justin Kendall and I am the editor The Brewbound and I am joined by Jessica Infante, the managing editor The Brewbound, who is sitting across the table from me.

[00:00:32] Jessica Infante: I'm so excited that we're all together in person.

[00:00:35] Justin Kendall: Which means to my right is Zoe Licata, Brewbound reporter extraordinaire in person.

[00:00:40] Zoe Licata: Also here in person.

[00:00:42] SPEAKER_??: Yeah.

[00:00:42] Justin Kendall: So we are at the California Craft Brewers Association Summit in Sacramento. We've just finished day one of trying to cover this thing and record some podcasts. And this is going to be a quickie, sort of, we'll see, talking about what we've seen so far this morning during the opening session with David Walker, the co-founder of Firestone Walker, Bart Watson, the chief economist of the Brewers Association, Lori Ajax, the executive director of the CCBA, and so many more. So, early takeaways from the CCBA session. What do you got, Zoe?

[00:01:20] Zoe Licata: There seems to be, I'd say, some general rallying of the craft community was my initial takeaway. I mean, David Walker is always good at reminding people about what craft is about and craft culture. So that was definitely how we started off the day. This is the first time they've had this event in six years. Is that what they said?

[00:01:43] Justin Kendall: I don't know if it's been that long. I was here in at least 19, I think.

[00:01:47] Zoe Licata: So four years.

[00:01:49] Justin Kendall: Maybe.

[00:01:50] Zoe Licata: Yeah, it's been a long time. What even is time?

[00:01:52] Justin Kendall: Yeah, it's been a pandemic.

[00:01:54] Zoe Licata: So it's been a really long time. So everyone just seems really excited to be here and be together. And it's generally positive with a little bit of hesitancy for the future.

[00:02:04] Justin Kendall: Yes, there's an admission that brewers are struggling. There's a call out to ask for help if you need it. There's a lot of talk of strength in numbers. David Walker, of course, did the romance in beer thing that he is so very good at, but talking about how Craft brewers own beer culture now. It's not the big brewers. They're too busy chasing total beverage alcohol. And they're fighting in a pond with Coke and Pepsi and Monster and Brown Foreman. And he says Monsanto, but I don't know about that. But you get his joke. He's making a point.

[00:02:37] Jessica Infante: Yeah. Yeah. I do love when David Wax is poetic about what craft beer is and all of that. But one thing I did notice was that Bart Watson really kind of, Bart Watson not a downer, but Bart really like brought the realism, which is that things don't look great and that's nationwide. And in California, some things look worse. Yeah.

[00:02:57] Justin Kendall: He's a Vulcan. He can't lie, as David Walker said.

[00:02:59] Jessica Infante: He can't lie. He did note that he has lots of reasons for optimism, but Zoe, you've heard Bart deliver these remarks twice in two weeks now.

[00:03:09] Zoe Licata: Yeah, we've been getting like mini teasers to what's going to come out of the BA's annual production report. And just within the few weeks between when I was at the New England Craft Beer Summit and now here, The national data is now at only plus 0.3% growth. It was 0.6% a few weeks ago. So it's looking a little scary. And then California itself is down 1% with the responses that are in right now, volume-wise. So yeah, Bart has been, he's been a little realistic, like, hey, it's not looking too great out there. But he's also reminding people, craft had some pretty big years and everyone's kind of used to all this growth and growing every year and everyone doing really well. And normal industries don't do that. That's not how business works. And so we kind of have to get used to this new normal of everything's going to be a little bit more balanced out than what it used to be.

[00:04:06] Jessica Infante: Yeah, we've had this conversation, but prior to COVID, a lot of people who are, you know, brewers who have gotten into the industry in the few years before had never known bad times or hard times. So, you know, sometimes people need a dose of the realism. So I'm glad that Bart Watson here to deliver it.

[00:04:20] Zoe Licata: Yeah, nice balance with BART and David this morning.

[00:04:23] Jessica Infante: For sure. I sat in on a session where Lori Ajax, who's, you know, the director of the CCBA, and Chris Walker, their lobbyist, talked about legislative goals in California, something to look out for here. There is a bill. brought forward, sponsored by Discus that would allow spirits-based RTDs under 10% to get sold in places that are only licensed for beer and wine. So they're keeping an eye on that, but interesting to see that. That's something that we see across the country is coming to the biggest craft beer state there is. Makes sense.

[00:04:58] Justin Kendall: Well, and as Maria Stipp from Stone has told us over and over again, Southern California is, I think, the top market for ready-to-drink canned cocktails.

[00:05:08] Zoe Licata: Yeah. I mean, Juneshine is over there and their canned cocktails do great. And they say the same thing, that that market is primed for those kinds of beverages. So it's not surprising that they're trying to get more access to more places.

[00:05:23] Justin Kendall: Another thing that is coming up that we should plug, the other event that we're going to be at is BrewTalks on Sunday, May 7th, 2 to 5 p.m., Nashville Underground in, where else? Nashville, for the Craft Brewers Conference. So we will be there. Tickets are on sale now. We've got a speaker lineup that's coming together with Sam Calagione from Dogfish Head. We've got Bill Schufelt from Athletic Brewing, Colleen Quinn from Greater Good Imperial Brewery, a brewery that is dedicated to nothing but imperial beers, as the name implies, and then we have Jeff Heck from Monday Night Brewing on a whole separate panel that we're working on putting together. And that leads us to what else we're going to be talking about at BrewTalks is the formation of the National Black Brewers Association. They have announced the formation of this trade group that will be focused on black breweries. We'll have at least a couple of black brewers there talking about what their agenda is, what their goals are, what the need is for this organization. And part of it is growing the number of black breweries in the U.S., which is a pretty small number.

[00:06:27] Jessica Infante: tiny guy. I'm so glad to see this group come together and can't wait to see what they do.

[00:06:32] Justin Kendall: Yep. One of our colleagues and I was over at Oak Park Brewing and they had sort of the announcement there. So just stay tuned for more there and check The Brewbound.com for tickets to BrewTalks. Let's get into some of the other news from the week. And I think the big news of the week was Zoe survived St. Patrick's Day in Boston.

[00:06:54] Zoe Licata: I did survive. I don't know if that's the biggest.

[00:06:56] Justin Kendall: Did you have a Borg?

[00:06:58] Zoe Licata: I did not have a Borg, but I did see several Borgs. I was actually drinking some Beatbox and the new Tequila High Noons. Other beverages of choice around a lot of Bud Light, a lot of McGillicuddy's Nips. you know, classics. Tis the season. Yeah. Did you go out to bars? So Friday, actual St. Patrick's Day, went to Castle Island and got to see some live Irish music. So over at their South Boston location, which was a lot of fun. Did have pickle pizza, of course. It's delicious and it's green. So it was perfect. And then, yeah, Sunday is the big Boston St. Paddy's Day parade in Southie. So I went out to Southie for that, which was Didn't go to the bars and restaurants, was just hanging out in town. It's intense, as always. And this was the first year where they had the full route again, and pretty much everyone was showing up. So it was a little crazier than usual. Really young crowd I noticed this year. I don't know if I'm just old since the last time I went, maybe a little bit.

[00:08:00] Jessica Infante: Welcome to the old people's club. yeah that's a long parade route too when i was at the brewery we would have a trolley and be in it and we'd you know hand out pint glass coupons and like come take a tour and we'll give you a free pint yeah it was like a great fun day but it's a long long it's a long thing and it's a big event for like like

[00:08:16] Zoe Licata: The for people who aren't aware of it, the things that have to happen, like they have to shut down the bars early on that day because they know people are going to start drinking early. You can't buy alcohol. I think this year it was after four thirty. Wow. Yeah. So you can't go into a bar after six o'clock.

[00:08:34] Jessica Infante: Upstairs just now, I know you were down here in the studio, but I was up in a panel discussion about the state of distribution in California. But one of the panelists is Dan Burroughs, the president of AB1, which is Anheuser-Busch's wholly owned distributors unit. And they do own a wholesaler in Boston. And he was saying just before St. Patrick's Day, he'd come up, gone on a site visit, went to a bar. He did not say which, but this bar owner in Boston told him he had never ordered more beer ever than he had for this St. Patrick's Day.

[00:09:05] Zoe Licata: Yeah, my boyfriend Lawrence, who works at lovely St. Adam's tap room now, said that Friday, actual St. Patrick's Day, might have been the busiest day they have ever had since that location is open. I believe that.

[00:09:20] Jessica Infante: St. Patrick's Day across the country, as we know, fell on a Friday and was the opening of March Madness. And draft sales were great, according to our friends at Beer Board, who track this nationwide. I want to say draft sales on Friday were up double digits.

[00:09:38] Justin Kendall: If I had internet, I would tell you, but we're in a bunker, apparently.

[00:09:42] Jessica Infante: I mean, I also wrote this story yesterday, so I should know this. But yeah, draft sales were up nationwide. Best-selling style was light loggers, then loggers, then IPAs. But they also tap into some key markets where there are big St. Patrick's Day celebrations. A snub to Boston. Rude, beer board. Would like to have a word with you guys. New York and Chicago both posted double-digit increases in beer volume sales. Guinness was the number one beer in both of those after being third and fifth last year. Guinness on the up. I know they are getting ready. They've announced their Chicago taproom, so that's cool. Beer Board's based in Syracuse, so they always check in with Syracuse, and Syracuse was only up 4%. But I remember seeing last year's St. Patrick's Day returns in Syracuse was up crazy numbers because I had emailed to be like, Hey, what's going on? So yeah, sounds like, uh, it was a really good holiday for the on-premise.

[00:10:43] Justin Kendall: Yeah. Just wait till Lester Jones puts out that beer purchasers index. Then we'll get that real story on that Boston bar. Hopefully.

[00:10:51] Jessica Infante: I hope so.

[00:10:51] Justin Kendall: Yeah. I hope so too. Should we play a lightning round of another round or tabbing out, which is our version of half full, half empty?

[00:11:02] Jessica Infante: Let's go for it. Yep.

[00:11:03] Justin Kendall: Hard juice slash hard tea. There's a scramble with a bunch of players getting into this. Small players such as Two Robbers, big players such as New Belgium with Wild Nectar. We tried it out last week. Mixed results on the liquid from Zoe and me. You got another round or are you tabbing out on this trend?

[00:11:26] Jessica Infante: I'm going to say another round. I get it. Everything about it to me makes sense. You know, people had tried the lighter flavored hard seltzers and turns out they want a little more flavor than that. And that's what I think a lot of these products are doing. So I'd at least like to see what happens with them throughout this summer.

[00:11:40] Zoe Licata: Yeah, I'll go another round just because I know I have several friends who they're sick of carbonation and stuff. And some of these things can be either lower carbonated or less carbonated, more focused on that flavor that they're looking for. So I think there's an audience for it. Just not everything is going to be beautiful.

[00:11:59] Justin Kendall: David Walker on elixirs and the, uh, he had an amazing quote that I can't access because we don't have the internet, but basically on the scramble of companies to get into these beyond beer things as you know, chasing numbers, basically. So. Having heard him say that, and having heard him say that, you know, craft brewers are, basically he wants them to embrace their role on changing beer. Are you half full or half empty on David Walker's enthusiasm for craft brewers' role in, you know, changing beer?

[00:12:35] Jessica Infante: I'm going to go half full another round. I get it. Because these Beyond Beer offerings are not going to work for every beer brand. And for the beer brands that have been able to do them well, I think there's like a lot of reasons why this works. I think it's a lot about creating a new standalone brand rather than just branching off of your existing brand, because that does get confusing to consumers, as I'm sure Bud Light would tell you. But I think David's got a point. However, I would also contradict everything I just said and say, shit's changing and people's palates are different and the LDA youth are really shaking shit up. So I don't know that we can't be too precious about craft. But I think there is a point of pride where David basically just urged the room to remember who they are.

[00:13:21] Zoe Licata: Yeah, concur. People care about what your brand is about. That's what we've learned about all the younger generations. They care about what your brand message is. So I think they can do it.

[00:13:31] Justin Kendall: I made a trip to Hy-Vee. Sunny D vodka seltzers were two for six dollars and I believe they were 12 ounce cans. Are you half full or half empty on 12 ounce cans for six bucks of this?

[00:13:44] Zoe Licata: I'm out on that. Thank you. Yeah. Close me out. I'm going to go home.

[00:13:48] Justin Kendall: Let's bring this home with one last craft thing. Carbon 4 has purchased the intellectual property for Ale Asylum, so they get their beer, their recipes, all that. They're bringing it back one at a time. Another round or tabbing out?

[00:14:03] Zoe Licata: Another round, I talked to Zach over at Carbon 4 about this, and he just seems like they've known the brand for a really long time. The folks over at Ale Asylum, they saw themselves as kind of like their little brother, and now they get to take care of them. And it seemed like just a genuine craft story, the same theme that we've been talking about this whole time of like, the ones that are succeeding can go out and help the other craft breweries and keep those brands alive and keep the consumers who are looking for those brands interested in the segment.

[00:14:33] Jessica Infante: Love that. I will also go another round on this. And this isn't the first time we've seen this happen in Wisconsin. You know, just a couple of months ago, I think MKE Milwaukee Brewing, their IP stuff got picked up by Eagle Park, who's going to keep it going in a similar situation. You know, like the team at Eagle Park really looked up to them and revered them and that's what helped them get into the beer industry. And now they're, you know, picking up the mantle. So nice to see that these brands can continue.

[00:14:57] Justin Kendall: Yeah, let's end it on a positive note here. So that's our show for this week. Thanks to Jess and Zoe for meeting me in Sacramento. Thanks to The Brewbound team for doing all they're doing here on site. Thanks to Joe for putting this podcast together. And thanks to all of you for listening. We'll be back next week with a bunch of interviews from CCBA, including Russian River and Society and a few others. So check it all out next week.