Brewbound Podcast: Live from CBC – Right Proper’s Leah Cheston and Hi-Wire’s Adam Charnack

[00:00:00] Justin Kendall: Heading to CBC? Kick things off the day before at Brewbound's meetup at Love City Brewing in Philly, Sunday, April 19th from 5 to 7 p.m. Connect with beer industry leaders, grab a drink, and catch up with the Brewbound team. It's free to attend and walking distance from the convention center. Head to Brewbound.com slash lovecity.rsvp. And don't forget to catch the Brewbound team at booth 956 during CBC.

[00:00:28] Jessica Infante: Parenting and Beer and Asheville's Recovery, next on the Brewbound Podcast. Hello and welcome to this week's episode of the Brewbound Podcast. I'm Jessica Infante. And I'm Zoe Licata. Zoe, it's just us.

[00:00:53] Zoe Licata: How are you doing? It's just us. I'm good. I'm good. Yeah, Justin is in Chicago this week at Beer Marketers Insights event. So yeah, it's just us.

[00:01:04] Jessica Infante: It's a girl show. And Justin, I'm sure we'll have all sorts of stuff to tell us next week from His trip to this conference, our friends at Beer Marketers Insights always have some interesting stage conversations. So can't wait to hear about that. But it is Tuesday, May 13th. I am back after a day off from taking my daughter to the dentist for the first time. I thought, like based on what it's like to brush your teeth at home, I assumed the whole thing would be traumatic. So I was like, okay, like I'll take the day. We'll have fun in the morning and then we'll go to the dentist and we'll have fun in the afternoon. She was fine. It was fine. She was like a total pro. So I don't know what I was so worried about. Zoe, how was your weekend?

[00:01:47] Zoe Licata: My weekend was good. I surprised my mom on Sunday for Mother's Day, made an impromptu trip to Western Mass, which she enjoyed quite a bit. Her sister is in town and my grandmother and her sister were there. So it was like a nice little hangout with a bunch of fun ladies. We played some croquet.

[00:02:06] Jessica Infante: That's so fun. Yes, it was very adorable. You did some fun like Gen X cooler recon, right? What did you find that your parents were drinking?

[00:02:16] Zoe Licata: Yeah. So my parents, I don't know when they started doing this. I guess like a few years ago, they host this like big, it's going to sound so lame, a big taco party is how they call it. But it's really just kind of a rager at their house with like 30 of their friends. And so I did some recon afterward just to see what the heck these folks were drinking. And their cooler was filled with a random assortment of things, including some Shiner in there. There was some Tecate, some Founders Shandys, and like a 8.5% ABV Founders offering, which looked like nobody really got into. Maybe had one or two. And a lot of Modellos. Yeah, much different than the coolers after our parties, which was funny. My dad asked me afterwards too, he's like, what would yours look like? I was like, it'd probably be a lot of like high noon and white claw and Michelob Ultra is probably what would be afterwards.

[00:03:16] Jessica Infante: Do Mexican lagers ever sneak their way into your friends' coolers?

[00:03:20] Zoe Licata: Yes, I would say Modelo was most often in there. Yeah, every once in a while.

[00:03:28] Jessica Infante: Interesting. Yeah. My mom is much older than your parents, but I always enjoy like if I'm at her house after she's had like her friend cruise over. Because it's wild to see what's left behind. Big on seagrams escapes. She doesn't drink them, but like somebody will bring them over and they will hang out in the fridge.

[00:03:48] Zoe Licata: Yeah. I always like to go into whenever we're over at like my grandparents' house or something and see like what they have just sitting in their fridge. Always have to check the expiration dates, but there is frequently a lot of seagrams, random like trulies in there, and bud light I feel like is the most common.

[00:04:08] Jessica Infante: I mean, your parents' friends had some Bud Light in that. I remember seeing that.

[00:04:11] Zoe Licata: Yes, there were a couple cans of Bud Light in there as well. Yeah.

[00:04:14] Jessica Infante: Crazy. All right. Well, before we get into the news, just a quick preview of how this episode is going to go down. As we started last week, you are going to be hearing conversations that we hosted at Craft Brewers Conference last month. Oh, it's a new month now. Well, I guess it's a new month while we're in Tennessee. I hate when it becomes a new month while we're out of town. It confuses me a lot.

[00:04:32] Zoe Licata: It makes me really annoyed when I'm writing coverage and I can't be like earlier this month because it was technically last month.

[00:04:39] Jessica Infante: Yeah. Wild. How rude of the calendar. So today you are going to be hearing a conversation that I had with Leah Cheston, who is the co-owner of Washington DC's Right Proper Brewing, but also happens to be the chairwoman of the BA's board of directors. So really great chat. We talked a lot about her BA responsibilities, what it's like to run a brew pub in conjunction with your husband and how their kids are really growing up in the industry. And it's really interesting to hear how Leah and Thor kind of divide this up. I don't want to spoil it, but basically, Her kids think that mommy has a brewery and daddy has a brewery and they each have their own spot. So it was fun. That's really cute.

[00:05:20] Zoe Licata: It was really cute. Leah also talked about her kids and her, she gave some opening remarks during CBC too, which was cute of just being like, shit is going down at the brewery, sometimes you got to bring the kids along to help.

[00:05:32] Jessica Infante: Yeah. Yeah. I think we talked about a couple of weeks ago. And then, so you talked to Adam from Highwire.

[00:05:38] Zoe Licata: Yeah. I talked to Adam Charnack, who is the co-founder of Highwire in Asheville, so they are still dealing with some recovery happening from Hurricane Helene, and they got hit really hard. Their production facility over there, they had tons of cans that got damaged, both that were filled and were unfilled. We know that the can situation is kind of up in the air right now, what's going to happen there. Adam talked a lot about how they went through recovery, where they're at now, as well as how it kind of gave them a bit of a, not necessarily a wake up call, but a bit of like reevaluation of what their mission is as a brewery, why they want to be doing this. Because you know, when you're dealing with something that is that significant, it makes you evaluate why am I putting myself through this? Why am I putting my employees through this? What is the purpose of us being here? So it was a really, really good chat with Adam. So yeah, definitely stay tuned for that.

[00:06:32] Jessica Infante: Nice. Well, I mean, news of late, I feel like you and I have just been like living and breathing and maybe a little bit dying earnings reports.

[00:06:41] Zoe Licata: Yeah. Yeah. Last week really, a lot of earnings. I feel like that's all we did last week.

[00:06:48] Jessica Infante: There was Ball to start the week on Tuesday. Molson Coors and Anheuser-Busch are back on this cycle where I think they do them on the same day, which... Yep. Rude. And then Monster, which our coworker Marty took for BevNut. Bless him. But I feel like Molson Chors and AB had very, very different tones. I took AB, you took Molson Chors. What were the vibes for Molson Chors?

[00:07:14] Zoe Licata: Yeah, Molson Coors, the through line throughout all was we're just trying to control what we can control. So they did not have a great quarter. Their Q1 net sales were down like 11%. And you know, this is on top of last year, they were doing pretty good. So it was quite a stark contrast from previous Q1s. And as a result, they've also lowered their guidance, their full year guidance. We don't have specifics. They don't share specific guidance for shipments and depletions or any of that, but it is lower. And they said Q1 was just worse than they really expected it to be. And then also mentioned it seemed like other breweries felt the same. So they're, yeah, they're just trying to do what they can do. They still feel very positive about their core brands. They feel like they can still maintain the shelf space that they have gained and can potentially continue to grow it. Coors Banquet was mentioned a lot as like, this is a thing that's not in a lot of places. So we can still find a lot of growth from that. So yeah, it was kind of a mixed bag, but it was really kind of like, this is the situation we're in. We kind of have to find where we can still find growth within that.

[00:08:25] Jessica Infante: Yeah, AB's losses weren't that bad. They were still, in the U.S., they were mid-single-digit losses across the board in terms of revenue shipments and depletions. I want to say hovering between like the five-ish to seven-ish range, but they're feeling pretty good. Vibes were very different. Globally, things look a little bit better than they do in the U.S. Michelle Dukaris, their CEO, talked a lot about what they are calling their balanced choices portfolio. Which basically just means anything that's not elk or low elk or gluten-free or low carb, kind of anything that they have that's growing that they think allows people to make a slightly healthier choice for themselves, that's what they want to focus on. Their non-OG portfolio is doing really well. They have the number one non-OG brand in about 50% of the markets they participate in. Not the US, but in the US they are the... I want to say that they're definitely really up there in terms of NA production. Obviously, Heineken 00 is the number one non-OG brand in the US, but Heineken doesn't have any other entrants into the category, whereas AB's got a few. They've got Bud Zero. They've got Bush NA. They own the OG of it all, Duals. But they also in January launched a Mic Ultra Zero, which is blowing up for them. It's captured an insane amount of share for something that's been on the market for as short a time as it has been. And just regular Micola Bulger is doing really, really well. It's really riding this wave of momentum. And I think they're just going to keep it going as long as they can. One interesting thing to me is that they don't really talk about Bud Light. Like who? I don't know her. Like that is basically them on Bud Light. To me, there doesn't seem to be a sense of we need to regain what we've lost. It's like they're accepting that, that it is what it is and they're moving on and they're trying to fill in those gaps with other things in their portfolio. Like make ultra, like Bush Light, Bush Light Apple, making a comeback. I don't remember if Blapple is the term that started on one of my group chats or if it's a thing that the actual internet uses. Yeah. But Bush Light Apple, after a couple of years of absence, is returning. Michelle said that people are traveling across the U.S. and queuing up in stores to find it. I saw something on Boston Reddit a couple of weeks ago where somebody was irate that the person who had reached the Dedham Total Wine before him had purchased all nine cases of the Blapple.

[00:10:50] Zoe Licata: I didn't know that Blackpool had such a massive following like this.

[00:10:54] Jessica Infante: If you Google, Zoe, I'll get you the link, but listeners, if you Google like Kate Burnett and Bushlight Apple, my buddy Kate wrote a piece for Good Beer Hunting years and years ago now. but she found some legal drinking age college student men who wax poetic about their love for the blabble. It's a thing. I remember when it was getting discontinued and a couple of people who were way too deep in the beer industry data were shaking their heads like, why are you doing this? But I mean, absence makes the heart grow fonder and the hearts have grown very fond of the blabble. So they were just setting up for a massive comeback and here we all are. Lovely. Lovely. So those two stories and more are all up on Brewbound.com for insiders to read. If you are listening to the pod and happen to not subscribe to our, one of our two newsletters, we do have a free newsletter for people who are not insiders and then the insiders get the full version of the newsletter, which I am biased, but I think is a tremendous value. But Brewbound.com, you can sign on up and get our news in your inbox once a day.

[00:11:59] Zoe Licata: Highly recommend, yeah.

[00:12:00] Jessica Infante: Highly recommend. And that is the end of that shameless plug. So any other news from the week you want to chat about?

[00:12:05] Zoe Licata: We just have a couple of things on this site. We have some on-premise reports that have come in from Beer Board and from CGA looking at some of the recent holidays. You can check those out. Also, one of our colleagues at BevNET, Lucas, has gone through some of the stuff happening with intoxicating hemp beverages. So we kind of did a two-part series on what their routes to market are and how they're navigating the three-tier system. So we have two stories up on that. Yeah, a lot of data coming in, which is another reason to check out that insider newsletter, because we have basically almost every day some sort of newsletter exclusive data piece happening there. So make sure to check those out as well.

[00:12:44] Jessica Infante: Yeah, for sure. In addition to our coverage, Insiders also receive exclusive data reports from several of our partners from across the industry that cover on-premise, off-premise, all sorts of, kind of every angle you could think of.

[00:12:55] Zoe Licata: Yeah, we have just recently 3 Third Beverages released a report for that segment. It has just beer, wine, spirits, RTDs, bunch of stuff, and the trends that happened in Q1. So you can check that out as well.

[00:13:07] Jessica Infante: Awesome. Well, before we get to the interview, Zoe, I have another round of tabbing out for you. And I think we were both on the same page on this when we covered it, I want to say last week, but Instacart is launching a new app called Fizz, which they are touting as the best way to order drinks and snacks as a group. So while it is a second app, but you know, think about it, like you have your friends over and you know, more and more people just keep showing up and all of a sudden you've got a full blown party that you weren't prepared for, which to me sounds like a nightmare. Not because they don't like parties, but just because I'm a planner. But in the Fizz app, you start a group order and everybody can add what they want in terms of drinks, snacks, and the order gets placed. Friendly Fizz slash Instacart driver shows up with it for a flat delivery fee of $5, which to me is kind of crazy. And then everybody just pays for what they want. So it's not like you are subsidizing the whole crew.

[00:14:03] Zoe Licata: Yeah, I love this. I like the idea of even before people show up, you can send out your order link and be like, hey, whatever you guys want for tonight, add it, and you're covering it. And it was very convenient. No more Venmo requests. No more like, oh, I wish I got this, or I didn't think to get this for you because you have this very specific want or need. It makes a lot of sense to me. So I'm definitely buying another round on it. I really like it. Plus, I low-key miss Drizzly. So I appreciate having another sort of uttering app. Yes, there's still like some other apps out there, but.

[00:14:42] Jessica Infante: Yeah, I mean, you can get booze through all the apps. You can get booze from DoorDash, Uber Eats, Instacart, all those things. But you're right. This feels like party Instacart.

[00:14:51] Zoe Licata: Yes. Yeah, exactly.

[00:14:53] Jessica Infante: Yeah. RIP to Drizzly. I'm with you. I think it sounds great. Yeah. Are your friends big on Splitwise?

[00:15:02] Zoe Licata: I feel like Splitwise isn't as big here, but like all my friends that live in like New York or something, that's like all they use. And you can see it on like Venmo or whatever that they're using it all the time. We're still in like the Venmo age, I think, with my friend group.

[00:15:16] Jessica Infante: I think you have to use You Splitwise to figure out the amounts and then you Venmo. I feel like we're speaking a different language. Like if you are unfamiliar, like let's say Splitwise is great for like group trips. So, you know, you and some friends go away for a weekend and you know, somebody picks up coffees here. Somebody else pays for a couple lifts. Somebody else pays for cleaning supplies for the Airbnb, whatever, whatever, whatever. Everybody puts in everything that they have spent. And then Splitwise tells you exactly how much you owe which person. Yeah. It seems complicated to me and that is why I appreciate what Fizz is offering here.

[00:15:50] Zoe Licata: Yes, this definitely simplifies it a little bit.

[00:15:54] Jessica Infante: For sure. Well, I hope to be part of a party again sometime in the future. This doesn't seem like it's going to be part of my life anytime soon, but Fizz, check it out. Okay, well let's get to those featured interviews with Leah Cheston and Adam Charnack. Hey, Jessica Infante coming to you live from the Brewbound Podcast on location studio here on the trade show floor at Craft Brewers Conference. And I am psyched to have our next guest, Leah Cheston, co-owner of Washington DC's Right Proper Brewing, but also the chairwoman of the Brewers Association Board of Directors, a real celebrity in our midst. Leah, thank you for being here. How are you? Well, thank you for that introduction. I'm so happy to be here.

[00:16:36] Craft Brewers: Thanks for having me.

[00:16:37] Jessica Infante: Yeah, no, and you and I bumped into each other last month at the MBWA Legislative Conference in your hometown. And I, you know, we had a really great chat and I had noticed that Right Proper was doing a cool, you know, Pay It forward program for federal workers who have been impacted by widespread layoffs. And I said, Leah, come by the booth and let's chat about it. Let's chat about it. Tell me about this program.

[00:16:59] Craft Brewers: Yeah. So, you know, we're D.C., so we're in the center of, you know, D.C. proper. And a lot of our friends and employees started losing their jobs. And so as a brewery, you know, my husband and I, we always, you know, what can we do? You know, it's community first. And D.C.'s hard, right? You have to find the balance between we're not political, we're a brewery first, right? But we are a community hub and we're purpose driven, value driven. And so sometimes it is hard to find where that fits in and where the voice is. What do you say? What you don't say. But we really just come down to, OK, what can we do? How can we help? And for this one, we had a playbook. So when the first, the long government shutdown in 2018, 2019, someone in DC came up with a Pay It furloughed program because everyone was furloughed. And so if you're a federal worker, you could, so someone could buy someone a beer. And then if you're a federal worker with a federal ID, you could redeem that beer that's been paid for by someone else.

[00:17:54] Jessica Infante: So the Pay It would work is I come in and I say, Hey, I want to, I want to help. I buy a beer and you tack a card up on a board somewhere.

[00:18:01] Craft Brewers: And yeah, not even, it's all just, we have a pool based on, we run sales reports on how many that we've sold. But yeah, we can just add it to your tab when you're there or you can order online just as you're ordering takeout food or delivery, but instead you just go to the Pay It forward. And I had an Executive Order me a beer. So that is the name of the program this year because of the impacts of the Executive Order. And so it does kind of flow. And it's gotten really great attention. We sent it out in our newsletter and immediately just people from all over the U.S. were were buying them because it felt like a little small thing they could do, you know, and it is a small thing, but it's something that you feel like you can do.

[00:18:41] Jessica Infante: And, you know, in times of uncertainty, I think we all appreciate little creature comforts and having a nice freshly poured Craft Brewers is certainly one of mine.

[00:18:48] Craft Brewers: Yeah, so someone can come in and we say show your federal ID or proof of unemployment, but really just honor system is totally fine. So someone comes in, they sit down at the bar and they said, I just lost my job. And the bartender says, that sucks. I'm really sorry. Here's a beer paid for by a stranger. And that's cool, you know, and it's just, it makes them feel a little bit better. You know, it makes our staff feel like they're doing something to help. So we've sold about 700 beers from our two locations and redeemed only a third of them. So we need more people to come in and do it. And because of that, we looked for other opportunities for the redemption part of it. And just another way to bring people together. So we started doing industry focused happy hours, networking events based on different sectors that were being affected. So foreign aid happy hour, and that was probably the most attended to the USAID. And then we did science and engineering and then health and human services and finance and education. And so each one has It's a place where people can come and meet other people who are in their same situation, hopefully get someone in there who's in a private sector that might be hiring. And then because of it, it's attracted other private firms like the Partnership for Public Service, Civic Match, so nonprofits that work with government employees who can provide services. So they'll come in during the happy hour and provide resume tips or how to convert your resume from the public sector to the private sector.

[00:20:15] Jessica Infante: this is just such a great way to, you know, turn a pretty negative situation into something positive, both for Right Proper, but for the community and for these affected federal workers. Like, what a cool idea.

[00:20:27] Craft Brewers: Yeah, it's been great to see the organic nature of it and how other organizations have just pitched in and shown up and, you know, media outlets and other things. Job coaches will come in and just provide coaching services during the happy hours. That's great. It's really, yeah. Did you grow up in D.C.? No, I've been there since 2008. Wow. So a minute.

[00:20:48] Jessica Infante: Yeah, quite a while. I mean, I have been to Right Proper for a beer every time I'm in D.C., even before I knew you. So amazing. Yeah, we've been there for 11 years. Yeah. I feel like it's an interesting city because of friends I have who have lived there. I've said it can be tough because, you know, people, some people move to D.C. for just a couple of years and then they move out. And sometimes it's hard to find your people. But I think having events like what you're having are a great way to foster community.

[00:21:13] Craft Brewers: It is very transient. We also were in very residential focused neighborhoods for the most part. And that's intentional. You know, we say that we'River Arts District, not Washington. So we do see more families and more, you know, the other part of D.C. And D.C. is very neighborhood to neighborhood. So it does. Each neighborhood kind of has its own identity.

[00:21:32] Jessica Infante: And we really try to lean into that. Yeah, I love D.C. It was always on my list of like D.C. or Boston where I wanted to live after college. And then I happened to meet a fellow who was from Massachusetts. And it's a great city.

[00:21:44] Craft Brewers: You know, it's a good size, like it's big enough, but not too overwhelming. And I hope people stay. You know, we're a little worried that if everyone loses their jobs, that MDC is not the cheapest place to live, obviously. And so we are worried that we'll start, you know, we haven't seen it yet. But we are we are worried that people will find have to find jobs elsewhere. And so we'll see. But hopefully they can, you know, the private sector and remote jobs will kind of keep them there.

[00:22:10] Jessica Infante: Yeah. Well, so in addition to co-owning a brewery with two locations, which would keep anybody super busy, you also have taken on you've been on the B.A. 's board of directors for, I believe, what year? Six years. I'm in year seven.

[00:22:23] Craft Brewers: OK. And so three more to go, including this one.

[00:22:27] Jessica Infante: You are the chair though, which is huge. And you and I connected on this last year. I believe you are the second woman to serve as chair since Kim Jordan did it in 2007. Yeah, no pressure there. You're doing great. Thank you. But I mean, you addressed CBC during the first general session on Tuesday and I really enjoyed your message. And actually we talked about it on the podcast that we recorded that day, which I think is live right now. But, you know, you talked about how like you really need to examine your why, because this is hard, hard work. Yes. And I forget who it was, but I was interviewing somebody or quoting a webinar or something. And somebody basically said, I do this because I felt I had to. Like if I thought I could be happy doing literally anything else, I would be doing that. Sure. Yeah.

[00:23:10] Craft Brewers: Sometimes my why is I don't know what else I would do. And that might be enough for today, right? But there is that bigger why. And weeks like this are so great at helping remember that, you know, to find that community and that purpose. But I think you do have to look for those bright spots more, right? And take them, take the win. You know, if a couple is celebrating their first date from 11 years ago, that's awesome. You know, take that as a win.

[00:23:38] Jessica Infante: Yeah, which is, I mean, that's like why we're all here is the relationships and friendships that build out of all of this. So I think you had told a story about how you ended up in the brewery on a morning where there was liquid leaking everywhere. Two and a half barrels of freshly fermented lager.

[00:23:56] Craft Brewers: Oh my God. It was a mess. It was a real mess. Yeah. Literally out of the seeping out of the space that the building was calling us saying, there's some liquid coming out of your space.

[00:24:06] Jessica Infante: Oh my, what time of day was it?

[00:24:07] Craft Brewers: It was around 8 a.m., so not super unreasonable. Not aggressive. Yeah, not aggressive. But it was school vacation week, and you were not alone. Yeah. You had a buddy. I had a buddy. So my seven-year-old daughter helped wet Vak and squeegee for about five minutes, and then she said, I'm out.

[00:24:22] Jessica Infante: What's it like to be a kid growing up in the beer business, do you think?

[00:24:26] Craft Brewers: I mean, they don't know any other way, you know, they love it. And for a while, I think they did not realize that every kid's parents don't have their own breweries. And because we have two locations and I run one and my husband runs one, it's, oh, are we going to daddy's brewery or mama's brewery today? And I think they just thought that every mama and daddy had their own brewery.

[00:24:47] Jessica Infante: That's amazing. Actually, can we talk about like mom life and beer? Because I don't know that it really ever gets discussed. That's amazing. I, my daughter is almost two and I don't know what she knows, but like, I just, I don't know what she, when she starts talking, I don't know what's going to happen. Like sometimes she goes to school in brewery clothes because. Oh yeah. I have them.

[00:25:06] Craft Brewers: Yeah. Yeah. My, my nephew actually had to turn his t-shirt inside out. because it had a brewing company. And he's like, but my aunt owns that. They didn't care. But at my daughter's school, she wears brewery t-shirts all the time.

[00:25:19] Jessica Infante: There's another kid at my daughter's daycare. I haven't figured out who her parents are, but they invest in Mighty Squirrel up by us in Mass. And the teachers know like, oh, Jess does this, or Cora's mom does this. But it's just funny, like to know that like,

[00:25:33] Craft Brewers: Yeah, I actually talked at Ali's school to her whole class about as a community, they were doing a special series on community leaders. And so I went and talked about what it's like to own a restaurant and they had so many great questions. And it was like, do you have fried calamari? We do actually, you know, like it's just, but, but yeah, they just, they just, there's absorbed, you know, they just fall in.

[00:25:57] Jessica Infante: Yeah. Amazing. I mean, it'll be interesting to see what happens when all these kids whose parents brought them to tap rooms grow up. Like what, what will they do? My husband has a theory that we're creating a generation of teetotalers.

[00:26:10] Craft Brewers: maybe it's more of birth control for the other nine parents in the brewery. But yeah, no, it's a lot, right? Two businesses trying to open a third, two kids and they're, you know, three and seven, they're in it right now, you know? And then the B.A., you know, it's not light in terms of it's a lot. But but, you know, it keeps you busy and you just figure it out. And there is a lot of tag team parenting, you know, and tag team business owning like, OK, you got the kids now. I'm going to go to work. OK, I'm going to get back from work. You go to work and you take the kids. You know, it's it's a lot of juggling, but. I don't know any other way.

[00:26:46] Jessica Infante: You don't. I mean, why is it important to you to to maintain this B.A. board role? Because it's a big one.

[00:26:51] Craft Brewers: Yeah, so, and I'm the, you mentioned a second woman, I'm the first brewpub chair. First brewpub representative to ever be chair. And by far the smallest, you know, we've most people that have done this that have had the time to do this are large packaging. breweries to the point where I thought you had to be, you know? And so, oh, you don't have to be, you can, anyone can do it. And so, it's been so important to me because it does help me remember my wine in tough times. It helps me, you know, you have so many fires when you own a small business, like the beer coming out of the, you know, literal fires. Someone's not going to show up to work. Someone's going to, you're going to fall short of guest expectations. You know, there's got to be things that go wrong and everything could be just so much. But if you can't let it because you're so busy and you keep, then it helps keep things in perspective.

[00:27:45] Jessica Infante: For sure. Well, I mean, clearly the people agree with having you on the board because you just keep getting reelected. So. You're doing something right. Appreciate that. Yeah. And you know, for listeners who maybe aren't quite familiar, the BA Board of Directors does have representatives from each member class, which is packaging brewers, the larger brewers that sell their products through distribution. There are brewpub representatives like Leah, who, you know, run brewpubs, which operate significant restaurant services, then there's also taproom brewers who mostly sell their beer on site but do not operate restaurants. Is there another class?

[00:28:17] Craft Brewers: And then there's at-large.

[00:28:18] Jessica Infante: At-large, great.

[00:28:19] Craft Brewers: So the class representatives are voted on by their voting member class. Yep. And then the at-large are voted on by the board members themselves.

[00:28:29] Jessica Infante: I think having your point of view in leadership right now is really important because as I keep hearing, a lot of people are getting really interested in kind of converting to brewpub model. People are interested in food operations as a way to drive revenue, which is a ton of work. It's becoming very important.

[00:28:45] Craft Brewers: Yeah.

[00:28:46] Jessica Infante: Yeah.

[00:28:46] Craft Brewers: And, you know, I mentioned I'm the smallest. We're still larger than a lot of our members. You know, our average BA member is that small, you know, 1000 barrel. And the board is very representative of the membership, which is nice to see that we're all over the board, no pun intended, with size of production and model. And now I think even the class breakup is getting more great because everyone does everything. We have both packaging and brewpub, and we have a taproom. A lot of people are doing all three because that's kind of the way you have to make it work.

[00:29:20] Jessica Infante: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, even this week, I think having, you know, Esther and JC from Trillium deliver the keynote was great because they have all that experience that so many BA members are also living through. Like, what's it like to basically run a hospitality business? As a family owned, you know, married couple too. Right. I mean, when Esther talked about their SWOT analysis situation, I thought that was super interesting to me. Like she had both she and JC wrote lists of the tasks they enjoy performing for Trillium and what they thought the other was good at. Yes. And when those things aligned, it was just automatically like, hey, you like doing this and I think you're good at it. This is yours. Go.

[00:29:58] Craft Brewers: Yes. Division of labor when you're a husband and wife team is so important. We've learned that through the years.

[00:30:03] Jessica Infante: Yeah.

[00:30:05] Craft Brewers: And it is harder when you have those areas where there is overlap, where we both like to, you know, it's much easier when it's like, that's totally you.

[00:30:12] Jessica Infante: I'm not touching that. Well, when you mentioned that you guys each have your own tavern, that's so interesting to me. What made you decide to do it that way? We were legally forced to, actually. Wow. Yeah.

[00:30:22] Craft Brewers: So in D.C., you could not own both an on-premise license and a manufacturing license. So we opened with a tavern license first and then the brew pub in 2013. And we're doing really good, you know, hard to keep up with production, decided to open the production brewery, realized that we couldn't legally do it, but because of women's rights, spouses can. And so I actually and I had kept my day job up until that point, which was a general manager and wine director of another restaurant, because we wanted to make sure that it was going to work. And we couldn't both. I didn't want my husband to be my boss. And, you know, like, And so he actually transferred the license to my name for the pub. And then he opened the production brewery in his name. So it started as legally required. Since then, we've been able to change the production license to a brewpub license. So we're actually now allowed to co-own, but we still have our lanes already where he is very much focused on manufacturing, distributing, and then I'm more focused on the on-premise.

[00:31:27] Jessica Infante: There's a lot of entrepreneurs in your same boat, husband, wife, teams that are running breweries. What advice do you have to like maintaining your sanity in your marriage?

[00:31:35] Craft Brewers: At one point, I thought boundaries was a thing and it's not like, you know, like we talk about the kids at work. We talk about work at like, yeah, you can't cut it off. There's no separation there. What we do have is like, I can't do it right now. Like, I can't talk about this right now. And so we just respect that. And then a division of labor, as I mentioned, is super important. And then I also recently read the book Rocket Fuel, which is about a visionary and an integrator. And it turns out that I think my husband is a visionary and I am an integrator. And the book is all about how those two roles work together. I highly recommend it for anyone who has that in their world. Wow.

[00:32:19] Jessica Infante: I love my husband very, very much. I could never run a business with him.

[00:32:23] Craft Brewers: Yeah, and I think being in the same facility would be hard, but I think because we have literally different locations that we're going to. That's really nice. Yeah. I mean, that's not to say that we don't have our fights and whatever, but yeah, overall, I think we've kind of figured out, you know, the way that it works. Which brewery do the kids like more? Ooh, probably the production brewery because they can run free. There's more like toys there. There's more space. And they kind of haven't entirely figured out that you can't run around like that in a restaurant. And so it's not entirely safe. I'm sure our staff love them. But yeah, and then we have more kid-focused events at our production location as well.

[00:33:07] Jessica Infante: And how many of their birthday parties have, wait, hold on, kids' music hours?

[00:33:10] Craft Brewers: Kids' music, yeah. We have a band that comes in that plays just kids' music.

[00:33:14] Jessica Infante: This is amazing.

[00:33:15] Craft Brewers: It's awesome. What time? 11 a.m. on Sundays, once a month. Oh my God. For how long? An hour. Perfect. Yep. And then we also have a coffee concept now in the tap room. And so they're there every day from 7 a.m. to noon and then bar opens at noon, 11, when there's kids music hour and parents have been up for seven hours already. So they're ready for an IPA at 11 a.m.

[00:33:36] Jessica Infante: Yes. And then you wind that down after an hour and then it's 12 o'clock nap time. Exactly. So smart. So smart. I love this. And then if you don't want to be around kids in a tap room, just don't show up for kids music hour. Correct. Correct. Really cracked the code here. Tell me about this coffee concept.

[00:33:52] Craft Brewers: Yeah, so Zeke's Coffee, they're based in Baltimore, but they have about three or four locations in D.C. They have just a nook of our bar, of our tap room, and they operate seven days. And it's worked great. It's pretty new. We had another coffee partner that did not end up working out, just not a good fit. They were new startups and just hadn't quite figured things out yet. And so this one is an established business, worked with them for years at farmers markets. And so it's, it's great.

[00:34:22] Jessica Infante: Yeah. Very cool. I mean, it just makes sense. You know, you, you've got tables and people, I assume you have wifi and people need places to go.

[00:34:31] Craft Brewers: Yep. I think that's more and more of the business model is sharing that space with, you know, especially in DC, you'll have three or four different businesses in one brick and mortar. Oh, wow. Which is, you know, doesn't say great things about how much it costs to operate in the city, but you figure out how to make it work, right? Seriously.

[00:34:48] Jessica Infante: Well, Leah, this has been so great. What are your goals for the BA board like this year?

[00:34:53] Craft Brewers: Yeah, so it's, you know, a big transition year, as most people know. And last year was, you know, very much about the CEO search and finding that. And, you know, very lucky that we have Bart and, you know, this internal candidate. So he's just off running. Are you technically Bart's boss? I am technically Bart's boss. Look at this. I was technically Bob Pease's boss. Wow. What are those annual reviews like? just like any other employee, you know? I mean, it can be intimidating at first when, you know, my own business is small, and then, you know, you're overseeing a $20 million business. It's a bit different, but then it's not at the same time. It's the same stuff. It's the same stuff. It's the same shit, you know? If I can say that, like, everyone's dealing with the same, you know, it's... people are people, you know, regardless. And so we're all we're all dealing with the same same problems, regardless of level or exact business model. And so, but it has been really nice that Bart's been able to just hit the ground running. And so I think a lot less of my time than it would be for say, a brand new exterior, you know, outside Canada.

[00:35:59] Jessica Infante: I mean, how long was that search really?

[00:36:01] Craft Brewers: We did it. We did the whole thing. You know, I mean, we, it was six months.

[00:36:06] Jessica Infante: Wow. Cause as soon as Bob announced, I was like, ah, this is Bart's job. I know you guys said that on your podcast. I'm like. Sorry, but I mean, who better?

[00:36:16] Craft Brewers: No, he was perfect. But yeah, we had to we had to make sure though. And I think, you know, to be honest, it is an organization where there's been a lot of just passing of the baton. Yeah, right. There's never been a national search for the CEO of the BA. Yeah, it's always just been a natural like, oh, they're next. And so I think it was really important to do that and to say that it's not just a passing of the baton, but Bart is the right person. And so we had several candidates and great candidates and we had three rounds of interviews and it was 10 hours on Zoom and it was insane. But, you know, we got there. You got there, and I think you found the right person. Right. And so this year, I think it's starting to level out, right? It's all about just easing into those, and not just BART, but like there's a whole new senior management team pretty much, just a lot of structural changes. And so, you know, straightening up some of the inside internal operations and so that we can be in a better place to provide value for our members.

[00:37:14] Jessica Infante: Awesome. Well, Leah, this has been so great. And I always love chatting with you. It's always, I always learn so much. So thank you so much. Of course. I know you're busy, so I appreciate the time.

[00:37:23] Craft Brewers: Yeah. Love it.

[00:37:23] Jessica Infante: Thanks.

[00:37:27] Zoe Licata: Brewbound senior reporter Zoe Licata here, and I am with our next podcast guest, who is Adam Charnack. He is the co-owner of Hi-Wire Brewing. Welcome, Adam.

[00:37:37] Brewbound Podcast: Hi. Thank you for having me.

[00:37:39] Zoe Licata: Yeah. Thanks for being here. How's your CBC going so far?

[00:37:42] Brewbound Podcast: It's good. I've been anxiously looking forward to this interview because as soon as it's done, I'll have my first beer at CBC today. So I'm very excited about that.

[00:37:54] Zoe Licata: Pressure's on now. We got to make sure we can get you to that pier.

[00:37:56] Brewbound Podcast: No, no, no. We have allotted the amount of time. We're going to take our time. Great. But I know there's a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

[00:38:03] Zoe Licata: Love it. So Adam, we wanted to talk to you because there is a lot going on in Highwire. But the context that we should probably share here is you guys are based in Asheville. That's where your headquarters are.

[00:38:13] Brewbound Podcast: That's true.

[00:38:14] Zoe Licata: Asheville got hit pretty hard at the end of last year with Hurricane Helene. How are you guys doing? We'll dive into everything and all the impact, but just in general, how are you guys doing?

[00:38:25] Brewbound Podcast: We're here. We have running water now. Great. That's something that's nice. Yeah, we're back in full swing and we're fully operating. I mean, and it's this is sort of what Asheville is like generally, not to get too off topic, but everything looks sort of fully functional and back to normal. But under the surface is, you know, six months of pain that is, you know, it's a real deep wound. I spend a good portion of my time working on SBA loans, insurance, all the things that are still coming post-hurricane, things to deal with, landlords and recovery. So it's all still there six months or so later.

[00:39:05] Zoe Licata: Yeah. You guys sent over some of just the quick facts of what you guys were dealing with. And I mean, your location was right by water. You got hit pretty hard. Some of the numbers were like over a million cans that were damaged, not including the ones that were filled with beer. What was the other stuff that you're just seeing that you walked into?

[00:39:26] Brewbound Podcast: Yeah. I'll start with the good news. The good news is our two breweries suffered only minor damage, nothing flooding or catastrophic. Again, didn't have water, couldn't brew for almost two months, lost time. A lot of things happened there. But then we have a distribution facility where we store raw materials and we ship finished product out of there. We also had our corporate offices there, our busiest taproom, flagship taproom in Asheville. That got flooded by 15 feet of water. So the river, which is hundreds of feet away, came all the way in and 15 feet up. So everything there was destroyed. 1.3 million cans. Can't forget the .3. Those were empty cans, pre-tariff pricing, empty cans. Right. Not to put too fine a point on that sensitive subject. And then our filled cans, we had almost 200,000 filled cans, cases of cans ready that were sold, needed to just get out the door so money could come in. And then countless kegs that all got destroyed. So, yeah, I mean, we're six months in. or so and still haven't gotten fully back into that building. We did officially turn on the switch on the cooler last week. So we do have cold beer being stored there. We are in our process of going back in, and we're looking to have a big, giant celebration party May 24th to kind of cathartically and get back into full swing there.

[00:40:45] Zoe Licata: Oh, we made it moment.

[00:40:46] Brewbound Podcast: Sure. Yeah, we're here. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks.

[00:40:51] Zoe Licata: What was it like? I mean, you're now in a leadership position in that situation. What did you have to do to try to make sure everyone was all right to rally everyone around to be like, all right, we're going to figure this out and pivot. How did you go about that?

[00:41:06] Brewbound Podcast: It's still a challenge. I mean, there's a fine line between being over-communicative and under-communicative, you know? I mean, it's, you have to, you want to ensure people, but you also, if everyone knew the burden and the weight that the leadership and people were, you know, deeply financially vested are, and then it's, it can be overwhelming and that's, that's not their burden to bear. That's, that's mine and my business partners. And so I think we've done a good job, a really good job. I don't think we've done the best, there's a perfect job. I don't know there is a perfect job. I mean, But I'll say this, we didn't have layoffs post-hurricane. There were some unemployment that we helped guide our folks to seek out. We did have to furlough some people temporarily, but those positions came back. And really, I think we did a good job of managing those expectations and trying to support our team. And that was first and foremost what we did. When the Hurricane Helene, there was no cell phone signal. It was a lot of bad signals. We did what we needed to to get a hold of everybody and had a firm check that everybody was safe and okay. Some people lost their houses, some people lost a lot of things, but really just did what we could to make sure everybody was okay. We had follow-up communications to keep people apprised of what was going on. You know, I think the worst of that is over and we're moving forward. And, you know, I spend a good part of my time now shifting towards communication. I mean, we're diving in deep into rethinking what are our core values. You know, those things are etched in a rock and permanent. But after something like this, it's important to go back and say, like, what are our core values? What is our core focus as a company? What's our why? Why do we do what we do and why do people come to work every day? and re-communicate that and double down on what that looks like. Because it is super important. We're the sum of our parts and it's important that all those people, we're all growing in the same direction.

[00:42:52] Zoe Licata: Yeah. What have been some of those pillars that you've found are going to be the basis of that?

[00:42:57] Brewbound Podcast: Yeah. Be hospitable, low ego, high agency. These are all working, so I shouldn't get too far ahead, but be yourself, assume the best, be the best. Those are the sorts of things that I think, if you don't speak them, people will get a vibe. You know, when we hire people, we want to hire people that are like-minded enough and understand what we're doing. But it's important to put it to words so that we're clear on what we do as an organization and how we feel. And so do people buy into that or not buy into that? If they do, it's a great fit. And if not, it's not a good fit for anybody. And that's not what we want. That's not what a potential employee would want, too. Yeah, I think not to get too over my skis, but, you know, we'll be kind of fine tuning some of those things and and having a company meeting here pretty shortly to kind of share all that and kind of push the reset button on the last six months, which have just been it's hard to describe, just really more than anything, just emotionally draining. It's exhausting.

[00:43:53] Zoe Licata: Yeah. I can't even imagine it that having those core things that you hold on to are especially important for folks like you guys are operating. Is it you have nine taverns?

[00:44:05] Right Proper: Yeah.

[00:44:06] Zoe Licata: not just in North Carolina, in a couple of different states. So you also have to communicate that to people who aren't necessarily in your backyard. How are you balancing that?

[00:44:17] Brewbound Podcast: Yeah, again, and part of it is me trying to shift my time and getting out and being more communicative and just be more intentional about it. We're in the early stages of discussing a trip to visiting all of our North Carolina tap rooms. We're looking to do the same with our non-North Carolina tap rooms. So, company meetings do that, in-person visits do that, and really it's building a strong culture from top to bottom. The people that I talk to on a daily basis, weekly basis, are we all perfectly aligned? Let's get that fully aligned. And once that is, then it's, you know, are the people that report to them fully aligned on that? And as that waterfall goes down, everybody, can, should, and will, and that's the intention here, is to really all be in alignment. And so it's a culture. I wouldn't Pay It all starts from the top, because it starts from all sides, right? But it does take two to tango, right? So everybody sort of has to be eating, sleeping, breathing, same philosophy. And that helps make those communications easier, and it helps make sure we're all aligned.

[00:45:16] Zoe Licata: Totally. You talked about like the impact that everything had on what was going on in Asheville, but what was the greater impact on just like your business plans for the following year? What did you have to kind of change in those plans because of what happened?

[00:45:31] Brewbound Podcast: Our warehouse was gone. We have almost 40,000 square feet of warehouse. So when you order a truckload of cans, minimum order quantity is often a full truckload of printed cans. So you've got multiple styles. It's multiple truckloads of cans. They've got to get stored somewhere. So for us, it was going into our deepest relationships and working with our camp providers. We also have some friends in town who unbelievably generously helped us with some storage space for almost six months that I don't know what we do because the brewery turned into the distribution hub. Every day, the cooler is like, still today, is like a kid's closet. You just shove everything into the cooler. close your eyes and close the door and hope it's okay, and then open it up and take all of it out in order to get to the thing in the back that you need to get on a truck that day. So it is way inefficient. But, you know, we've made it work while we had to. But, yeah, it's leaning into folks who, you know, in a time of need can help us and want to help us. That's one thing I really learned in the hurricane is that it can be hard to accept help. We suffer from that as well. But people really want to be helpful. And it takes grace to accept that help also and say, I also want to help. but I need your, I am willing to take your help right now because we genuinely need it. That was really important during that time period.

[00:46:54] Zoe Licata: There was such a massive outpouring of support and just communication within the beer industry when everything happened. This is not the first natural disaster, but there was something specifically, I guess it's just about the Craft Brewers community in North Carolina, where there were so many folks that were ready to help. And I'm just curious to get your perspective on what is it about North Carolina or about that craft brewing community that created that?

[00:47:23] Brewbound Podcast: I mean, it's probably like any complicated question. You know, why is housing unaffordable in America? Oh, there's probably 30 reasons, right? So I can't attribute it to one thing, but I will say a couple of things. A, the culture is, you know, North Carolina, we're good people. And this is not to say that in other places, that's not the case, too. But it starts there. The culture is strong. And frankly, I think our North Carolina Craft Brewers Guild is a real leader. So I'll give them a direct shout out. They helped align resources. They helped receive donations, coordinate shipping of those into Asheville, which wasn't easy with highways closed. They actually set up a relief fund and helped distribute some grants to breweries. And when we didn't have water, we partnered with, and I'll give another shout out, Noda Brewing, who helped brew a couple of batches for us. And that was critical. We didn't have water and it was a thousand bucks a truck to truck in water, which goes through pretty much immediately. Yeah, just really good people, good Brewers Guild. And yeah, I hate sometimes that funerals, being people together and natural disasters bring out the best in us. But I suppose there's some truth to that.

[00:48:28] Zoe Licata: So now you've made so much progress. You have these big milestones that are coming up to kind of celebrate that. What are you looking forward to? What are you now looking at next for High Wire?

[00:48:41] Brewbound Podcast: We've been spending a lot of time on our planning for this year, and I'm just excited to execute a game plan. We've been partnering with other breweries to help brew some of their products, which has been really fulfilling to help other breweries fulfill their goals and missions. our brands are also doing well and continuing to focus on them, on growing our staff to be better leaders and to take on more, increase our process refinement. A lot of it gets more and more boring and like doing the work of doing the work as I go. But that's really exciting to me because that's what I think makes a business successful, whether you're in a fun industry like craft brewing or a boring industry, like I won't mention any examples because I'll just aggravate people in boring industries. But yeah, and frankly, it's just moving on from Helene, from the destruction. Happy to talk about it now. I hope, though, in six months we don't have to talk about it anymore because we've flipped the switch and we've gotten back to what is the new normal and we're able to kind of you know, learn from that experience and move forward confidently and kind of version 6.0 after COVID and hurricane and tariffs and all the things that everybody else has also had to deal with. It's nice, you know, I hope that we can kind of, you know, move past this period and kind of move on to the future.

[00:50:00] Zoe Licata: Anything we didn't chat about that you wanted to make sure we touched on?

[00:50:02] Brewbound Podcast: Try Mango LaserAid. It is our new 8% real fruit juice, low carbonated, crafted to remove gluten. Hard LaserAid, not a lemonade. It's a LaserAid made with lasers. That is not an FDA approved statement, but I'm going to throw it out there. That and Leisure Time Lager. It is just great for leisure times. I'll just leave it at that.

[00:50:24] Zoe Licata: Perfect. Well, thank you so much, Adam.

[00:50:26] Brewbound Podcast: Really appreciate it. Thank you, Zoe. This has been awesome.

[00:50:29] Jessica Infante: And that is our show for this week. Thank you so much for listening. If you enjoy the Brewbound Podcast, please rate it five stars and leave a review on your podcast platform of choice so more people can find the show. As always, a big thank you to Joe, Joshua, Ryan, and the whole Brew My BevNET technical team that really make this possible week in and week out. And to Justin and Zoe for always being great co-hosts. Thanks to Leah and Adam for stopping by the booth at CBC. And again, thank you for listening. We will see you back here next week.