Brewbound Podcast: Lawson’s Finest CEO on a Decade of Sip of Sunshine

[00:00:00] Justin Kendall: Heading to CBC? Kick things off the day before at Brewbound's meetup at Love City Brewing in Philly, Sunday, April 19th from 5 to 7 p.m. Connect with beer industry leaders, grab a drink, and catch up with the Brewbound team. It's free to attend and walking distance from the convention center. Head to Brewbound.com slash lovecity.rsvp. And don't forget to catch the Brewbound team at booth 956 during CBC. Next on the Brewbound Podcast, Lawson's finest CEO Adeline Druart discusses Sip of Sunshine's 10th anniversary. Hello and welcome to the Brewbound Podcast. I'm Justin Kendall.

[00:00:50] Jessica Infante: I'm Jessica Infante. And I'm Zoe Licata.

[00:00:53] Justin Kendall: And this week, we are bringing you a featured interview with Lawson's finest CEO, Adeline Druart. She'll be here to discuss the 10th anniversary of Sip of Sunshine, and a whole lot more. It was a fun conversation. It was a super fun conversation. And we get into Lawson's, what is it like a verbo?

[00:01:15] Finest Liquids: I believe it's running through Airbnb, but yes, Lawson's is in the hospitality game these days. They've got a few different options where you can stay on site or very nearby should you choose to visit them in the lovely state of Vermont.

[00:01:30] Justin Kendall: And Zoe wasn't there for the interview, but we were invited, Zoe.

[00:01:33] Finest Liquids: Oh, sweet. We were invited, Zoe. Yes. So we will be having the Ruban Editorial 2026 retreat. Love it. In the Green Mountain State.

[00:01:43] Justin Kendall: And there was a reason that Zoe wasn't there for the interview. You were at CiderCon. Yeah. So what's the fallout from CiderCon?

[00:01:52] Jessica Infante: CiderCon was a great time over in Chicago. First CiderCon with their new CEO, Monica, who is very jazzed about cider, ready to roll. She is hyped up, ready to make cider have its time. It was positive with a little bit of like, oh, there's a little deja vu here with a lot of folks being like, okay, now is the time for cider to have its moment. It's happening now, finally, which has been said a couple of times. But people are really, really emphasizing it right now.

[00:02:25] Justin Kendall: You're of cider, you're of the lager.

[00:02:26] Jessica Infante: Yeah. Yeah. Very similar energy. But hey, the lager's happened, right? Maybe Cider will too. Yeah, it was a good time. There was a lot of new people there. They did like a stand up for how many Cidercons you've been to, and this was the 15th one. And almost half of the room stood up as first time attendees. How many people have been to 15? There was maybe like 10 or so folks that were at least in the opening session that stood up for all of them. But yeah, a lot of like cideries and planting and a lot of beer folks that were going there for the first time, some like familiar faces from both suppliers and just other parts of the industry that were there to just check out what CiderCon was all about. So potentially some other folks like retailers and distributors being like, Hey, maybe we need to up our cider game a little bit.

[00:03:17] Justin Kendall: So that's potentially really exciting. You had been to one fifth of the CiderCons. Is that right?

[00:03:24] Jessica Infante: Yeah, definitely. Yes. Third one, yeah, one fifth of them. Wow. Every year it's a good time and a very cold time. I would love for them to do it in a warm place, but next year it will be in Rhode Island. So I'll have to wait a little bit longer. That makes your life easy. It does make my life easy. I'm excited to just probably hop on a train.

[00:03:48] Finest Liquids: You could take not even an Amtrak train, you could take the good old Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority train.

[00:03:56] Jessica Infante: right down to Providence. Yeah, I'm looking forward to that. That's gonna be fun. So yeah, Providence is a cool little place. So I don't know anything about the cider scene there. And so it's gonna be an interesting time. But yeah, I always enjoy CiderCon. The folks are really nice. It's still relatively small, so people all know each other. So it acts as a bit of a reunion for everybody. And I got to drink a lot of really delicious ciders. This is a good reminder for me every year too of just the vast array of ciders that are out there and the possibilities of what you can create with just fermented fruit really. There's some really delicious products out there. And most of these cideries stay pretty local. They only have their tap room or something. So you don't get to try the majority of the brands that are out there.

[00:04:47] Justin Kendall: And your coverage of CiderCon is now up for the most part on Brewbound.com by the time people are listening to this. And it all started with one Lester Jones from the National Beer Wholesalers Association who was really on one.

[00:05:04] Jessica Infante: Yeah, Lester was fired up. Lester is usually, usually makes an appearance at CiderCon and is normally pretty excited. But this time he was on a mission to really get the story across of, hey, stop getting your head stuck in the sand and looking at scan data all the time. It was his message to people who are working in the industry. It was his message to media members. It was his message to other economists. It was, hey, there are other things going on besides scan data, as well as there are other narratives going on of or things we should be looking at that are affecting the beer industry other than the common stories we're always hearing of, like dry January or people drinking less or all those fun things we talk about all the time. Yes, those can be factors here and there, but he's saying that's not the real story of what's driving a lot of the beer trends right now. Summer sucked was the big thing. Summer was not good, and that's been a bit of a... It's slowly been happening for a little while. So beer needs to figure that out because that is having a bigger impact than the few folks that are doing dry January. We have heard people talk about, hey, people are spending less money. He's saying that's actually probably not true. They're just spending it on different things. It might not be your beers. People are traveling more than ever. They're going out and spending a lot of money in the on-premise or outside of their homes. So how are you capitalizing on that instead of just looking at retail stores? So yeah, he was really enthusiastic and a little mad.

[00:06:40] Justin Kendall: Salty.

[00:06:41] Jessica Infante: Yeah, he had a lot of feelings.

[00:06:44] Finest Liquids: But I think that the CIDR crew knows that story better than anybody. That's something that they've been talking about for years, is that regional and local CIDRs don't pop in scan data and scan data really only shows some of the biggest national brands, which have not been healthy in years. So I have to think Lester probably knew he was preaching to the choir a little bit and he was in a safe space. Yeah. He also, to me, is the industry's patron saint of segments that don't get the shine that they deserve, like cider, but also mead and sake. Lester really loves these. little niche parts of the Bev-Alc world.

[00:07:26] Jessica Infante: Yeah. He definitely brought up sake during his presentation, so I don't think you can go through one without a mention these days. But yeah, it's true. The Sider folks have been, even just talking about their segment alone, I'm talking about the regional trends versus national trends and how important it is to actually dive into some of those regional numbers over what you're seeing on a national level. I think part of it also was he was trying to encourage CIDR folks to take this information and have the data to back it up when they're going into their conversations with distributors and things. To be like, hey, I have the chief economist for the MBWA telling you this is what's actually going on. And he also dove into how CIDR factors into all of it, how CIDR grew at a bigger percentage, dollar sales wise, than TotalBeer did. So he wants them to take this data, to take this information, to take this narrative and bring it in when they're talking to other folks to try to help bolster up the segment a little bit more. Always fun to listen to Lester.

[00:08:28] Justin Kendall: Well, if you're a Brewbound insider, you can read all of Zoe's coverage and Insider is our subscriber service that we offer. It is a more robust newsletter than you get if you are not an insider.

[00:08:43] Finest Liquids: Yeah. Significantly more robust. Frankly, probably more robust than many newsletters based on how often we find ourselves having to figure out how to trim it a little bit and make sure that people know what's on the website where there is even more news.

[00:08:58] Justin Kendall: Exactly. So let's talk about the Super Bowl for a second. Zoe, you are the one out of the three of us that probably had the biggest Super Bowl party. You don't know my life. I'm just guessing here. I didn't see any cookies. You are correct.

[00:09:15] Jessica Infante: I mean, my Super Bowl party was like, I think there were six of us total. It wasn't massive this year. It was very low key.

[00:09:23] Justin Kendall: But the cookies came back.

[00:09:24] Jessica Infante: The cookies came back. I haven't made them the past couple of years because I went to Foxwoods last year to try the Super Bowl, not in a house, which was fun, but the cookies had to come back this year. And I would really love to not have to make red ones. So next year, if we could not have a red team, I would greatly appreciate it. And I might make even more cookies.

[00:09:48] Justin Kendall: It's a bigger party if it's a Pats party, right?

[00:09:51] Jessica Infante: That too. Yeah, it is definitely a much bigger party. Lawrence doesn't get involved. Lawrence will not be at any big party if the Pats are in it. He has to lock himself in his room and watch it by himself just in case, because unhealthy relationships with sports, Boston stereotypes, all that fun stuff.

[00:10:10] Justin Kendall: Well, you watched it in a setting with people that aren't in the industry, so... Kind of. Okay. Was there any reaction to any of Super Bowl ads?

[00:10:24] Jessica Infante: Yes. Yeah. So to clarify, yes, I was at Super Bowl party that was mostly folks that do work at the Samuel Adams tap room. So they are somewhat related, but they had not seen any of the ads beforehand. The biggest reactions were definitely Dunkin's, which was my personal favorite. Once again, the beer ads, were pretty mild reactions. A couple giggles from the sloth one, but I don't think you could, if you asked any of them what beer brand that was advertising for, I don't think any of them could answer you.

[00:10:57] Finest Liquids: Did they know it was even a beer brand?

[00:10:59] Jessica Infante: They just saw like the case, the beer case at first.

[00:11:02] Finest Liquids: The case of the Mondays.

[00:11:04] Jessica Infante: Yeah. Very subdued reactions to Bud Light, Budweiser. I don't think anyone was paying attention to, although apparently the general public really liked that one. Loved. Yeah. The biggest reactions were just the what the heck is going on here reactions to some of the weirder ones like Pringles or what was the one that they had like their heads were shaped like hats, skin hats. hated to be. Yeah, no one liked that one. Or the creamer ad.

[00:11:38] Justin Kendall: The tongue coffee mate.

[00:11:40] Jessica Infante: Disturbing. Yeah, those just gross weird ones that had the negative reactions were the biggest reactions for sure.

[00:11:47] Justin Kendall: Yeah, the USA Today ad meter had Budweiser as the number one ad overall, it had Mick Ultra and Stella Artois in the number three and number four spot. So As Jess wrote in the newsletter, AB might want to consider keeping its ad agencies around another year.

[00:12:08] Finest Liquids: Yeah. They, uh, they did what you pay them for. Yeah. And then Bud Light was number seven. So all of their national ad buys landed in the top 10. I would call that a sweep for them. I didn't see the Bush Light ad, but I think that was regional. Yeah.

[00:12:25] Jessica Infante: Yeah.

[00:12:25] Finest Liquids: No, I didn't see it either. And it's just, you know, like there's different audiences here. There's like the ad industry and they all look for and value different things. And then just regular consumers, viewers, throw them a tiny horse and they go crazy. Love a tiny horse. Love a tiny horse.

[00:12:45] Jessica Infante: A tiny horse who wants to be a big horse. Yeah. He has dreams. I think it was really funny that Two of the most well-received ads were that one and the Lay's commercial, which were essentially the same thing of little folks with big dreams of being a part of the bigger effort. That was the little girl growing her potatoes so her potato could be turned into some Lay's potato chips. The ultimate sacrifice. Yeah. I would like to know what, psychologically, why those two very similar commercials hit so hard with the American people. I was also a big fan of the Instacart commercial, which was basically just a headset other various commercials over the years for all the various brand mascots, the return of Puppy, Monkey, Baby, which is still disturbing, but a bit nostalgic at this point.

[00:13:43] Finest Liquids: I remember watching that and thinking, like, who has spent all this money to get all of these things involved? And the Instacart reveal was

[00:13:52] Adeline Druart: It made sense, yeah.

[00:14:14] Justin Kendall: Well, we've already sort of played Another Round or Tabbing Out on these ads, but I think we should jump in to Another Round or Tabbing Out this week and discuss a few things that are sort of tangentially related. I think we can start with a story that you covered, Jess, and that was the Anheuser-Busch push for American to replace domestic in our lingo. Oh, I have the thoughts. I think you should start us off with the thoughts. Tabbing Out? Buy Another Round?

[00:14:51] Finest Liquids: I never even got the first beer on this. There's no tab. I'm gone. I'm not even at this bar. I am home on my couch. This is ridiculous. Yeah. Brendan, do you not have other things to worry about, sir? And if you don't know who we are speaking to, I'm sure he does not listen to the podcast, but AB's U.S. Division CEO, Brendan Whitworth, sent this letter out to wholesalers last week saying that he really thinks that we need to stop calling beers domestic and call them American. And sure, bud, whatever. But no, no, this is basically Freedom Fries. Two of your company's biggest brands have been bleeding out for decades and this is what you're doing? Not for nothing. But this isn't even an American company anymore. And in his letter, he lays out the fact that the beers are produced here and they use ingredients from American farmers. And he then went on a tangent about trucks and said, you know, some people drive trucks from Dodge or from Ford, but what they all say is they drive an American truck, not a domestic truck. And I don't know that anybody says that, but I don't think so. For example, I drive a Subaru, which is globally headquartered in Japan, but my Subaru was made here in this country. So is it an American Outback? I don't know. It's the same. Like Anheuser-Busch InBev is not American owned. Yes, they make their beer here in America. Subaru, not an American owned, but is making their cars in America. So What's the difference here?

[00:16:29] Justin Kendall: American Stella Artois.

[00:16:31] Finest Liquids: Yeah. What's Stella now? You make it here at American breweries, probably with American ingredients. Is that now American? And AB's press team sent out a roundup of all of the great feedback they've gotten from people. And it was wholesalers saying, we're going to make this change. They said that Cercana would agree to do it. And Cercana did not answer our request for comment, but I'm sure you both noticed this week in our Cercana Weekly Scans email, there was a heading of American domestic. They had both.

[00:17:03] Justin Kendall: They're both sidesing it.

[00:17:05] Finest Liquids: They're both sidesing it.

[00:17:06] Justin Kendall: It is the Gulf of America and the Gulf of Mexico.

[00:17:10] Finest Liquids: Oh my God. So the news peg here really is that the Caesars Superdome, which hosted the Super Bowl this weekend, agreed to list American lagers on their menu boards, and the team sent us photos. And it just said, American lager, very large, and Bud Light, McUltra, very small. And I think all you've done here is just fucking confuse people who are now thinking, oh, I would like one of those American beers, not realizing that there are two different brand options. I think I'm done.

[00:17:38] Justin Kendall: I think the thing that stood out to me on it was that it was essentially just a video board being reprogrammed.

[00:17:48] Finest Liquids: Yeah, and also, was it giving you mid-aughts Taco Bell vibes as well? Because that's what I got out of it. Yeah.

[00:17:57] Jessica Infante: I have two problems with this. One is, Mainly, consumers weren't calling it anything in the first place, I don't think. This is very inside baseball. Okay, we're going to call them American now instead of domestic. That's not going to cause some big revolution with consumers now. It's very strange to me. Second, it is so obviously just trying to capitalize on the current political climate and trying to claw back and get those consumers that they lost from that initial boycott. And it seems so desperate i'm gonna be very blunt and just call it that because it is just it's doing exactly what all the other folks are doing right now of just being like we are america now everything is gonna be america oh okay cool what that doesn't change your beer that doesn't there's gonna be maybe Maybe some rogue person on Instagram is going to see your post and be like, cool, yeah, I'll buy a Bud Light now. They probably were buying Bud Light anyway. I don't understand the point. It's just kind of lame. Hmm.

[00:19:13] Finest Liquids: You have many other much bigger things to worry about, right?

[00:19:17] Justin Kendall: Yeah. I'm just not sure that it sells one case of beer more than it would have before for a brand that's been bleeding volume for years outside of what a pandemic boost.

[00:19:29] Jessica Infante: Yeah. It's probably not even the point either. I don't know if they're even trying to sell more beers from it. I know I just said they're probably trying to get more consumers back, but it's probably just a more political, social statement to connect that brand with everything that's going on. To just be a part of the narrative. Yeah.

[00:19:52] Justin Kendall: Well, let's play Another Round or Tabbing Out on aluminum cups. And apparently ball is itself sort of Tabbing Out. They're forming a strategic partnership, taking a $233 million non-cash impairment charge on that business, but they're getting out. Shocking. I don't hate the cup. Really? Contrary to what Jess may think. I do.

[00:20:19] Finest Liquids: Contrary to everything else you've ever said.

[00:20:21] Justin Kendall: Like the sustainability of it, but it just, it was a hard sell, I think.

[00:20:28] Jessica Infante: The intent was nice and was there for sure. I remember us talking about it when they first came out with them or doing the big push on them. And the main problem with it from the beginning was the whole purpose of these cups and when you're using these types of cups are because they're disposable, because you are using them infrequently or whenever you're using them for parties and things. So it already was not driving well with the purpose or the intent. I don't think any of us really had expectations for them to do so great. Then here we are.

[00:21:05] Finest Liquids: Here we are. It's a bummer because I think plastic recycling is a bit of a boondoggle and aluminum recycling, I hope, is a little bit more effective.

[00:21:17] Jessica Infante: Yeah. I mean, why doesn't Ball use that money that they used on aluminum cups to pay for a campaign that better informs consumers on recycling beer cans and removing labels if you have to remove labels, like doing things that could help improve the We already have these products out there that exist. If you want to put the effort out there, do it to better educate folks instead of coming out with some new product that you're going to now have to try to encourage people to use. I feel like it's easier to try to slightly alter their current behaviors than to try to completely change them.

[00:21:52] Justin Kendall: There's a lot of wish cycling that goes on.

[00:21:55] Jessica Infante: Yeah.

[00:21:56] Justin Kendall: Even things that you think are recyclable aren't just because it's got the little triangle. It's like, see local. And it's like, right. You know what you're doing. You know, this isn't recyclable.

[00:22:08] Jessica Infante: Yeah. And then once you mess it up, then the whole batch is messed up. So it's a complicated mess, but use that aluminum cup money on Maybe making recycling facilities that can better organize that stuff or educating consumers or something. I think you can use the same amount of money for a better impact.

[00:22:35] Justin Kendall: Let's get to our featured interview with Adeline Druart from Lawson's Finest Liquids.

[00:22:43] Finest Liquids: Joining us on today's Brewbound Podcast is Adeline Druart, CEO of Vermont's own Lawson's Finest Liquids. Adeline, it's always so great to be with you, but how are you doing today?

[00:22:52] Brewbound Podcast: I'm doing fantastic. I'm looking through the window, there is snow. That means people are skiing. That means apres-ski is going to happen at the taproom at Lawson's.

[00:23:04] Finest Liquids: It's good. It's good. Good. You're wearing Sip of Sunshine, yellow, perfectly on brand. I have to say you are one of few people whose career trajectories I'm jealous of because you came to beer from cheese.

[00:23:17] Brewbound Podcast: Yeah. Well, two of my favorite food group, you know, cheese and, and, and beer. It's like, and our fridge at home, my husband is still in cheese. So we have a, a cheese and beer fridge in the basement. And so people like to come over. Please adopt me because they know it's going to be good stuff.

[00:23:34] Justin Kendall: Do you have cheese in the tap room yet?

[00:23:36] Brewbound Podcast: Oh, yes. We actually have a beautiful cheese offering, cheese plate, charcuterie plates. And actually, you mentioned it last last week, we launched our first tasting of beer and cheese pairing with also all local Vermont chocolate and honey and so this was a 16 people like VIP education session and the beer were dark beer so winter dark beer with like yummy double cream wash rind cheeses it was Pretty iconic, pretty good. Is that going to be a recurring thing? I think so. This was our first one and we sold out. And people are looking for education. And then also this, you know, Vermont has so many great producers for beer, for cheese, for meat. And so our goal is to bring all those flavors together. and make the beer kind of be what brings everything into a sensory experience, that is awesome.

[00:24:41] Finest Liquids: And the wine industry is going through some tough times, and not to kick them while they're down, but I personally have always believed that beer and cheese pair better together than wine and cheese do. And I don't think the wine people listen to our podcast, so I'm not too worried about anybody trying to fight me.

[00:24:54] Brewbound Podcast: I would approve.

[00:24:56] Finest Liquids: Right? I mean, the next time you're having one of those sessions, I will be there with bells on. All right.

[00:25:02] Brewbound Podcast: You're signed up for it.

[00:25:03] Finest Liquids: Well, so let's get into it. Your flagship, Sip of Sunshine, is having a big birthday in 2025 and decided to kick off celebrations early with some blockbuster sales last year. Up 18% year to date through November and the number one four-pack in Northeast grocery channels last year. Justin and I were just chatting about this before you joined us, but there's, I'm sure, myriad things driving this, but what do you think is really the keys to success behind this decade-old brand?

[00:25:32] Brewbound Podcast: Good question. Good question. I think it's the product. and the fans. It's one thing to make a splash when you launch, but to sustain that momentum and that fan following for 10 years is a big deal. And the product, Sip of Sunshine, it's such a delicious beer that we've been able to offer consistently. People know when they buy Sip of Sunshine that it's going to be great. And so it's consistency, it's product quality, and then the fan that really help us not only build that brand, but to today, we hear so many times like, Oh, I remember my first sip, you know, my first sip experience. And so we want to celebrate that this year, the fans and the beer.

[00:26:22] Justin Kendall: Well, you added 19 to singles. I think it was in 2023. Yes. What have you learned since those launched and how have they done so far?

[00:26:32] Brewbound Podcast: The 19.2 far exceeded our expectation. I think what we saw here is a different occasion, is a package that is sold in different places that we may have not had distribution before. And our consumers are loving that pack size. It's also had brought us to new venues, event space where Super Sunshine is being enjoyed. So it's been real success. And little sip as well was launched in 1992 and also in a 12 on 12 pack which been able to for us to offer to consumer a different different occasion a different value proposition and round up the portfolio.

[00:27:17] Finest Liquids: Well, Sip of Sunshine is now distributed as far south as North Carolina through a completely cold supply chain process. What are the challenges associated with that? And why are those challenges worth it? Because I assume they are vast.

[00:27:31] Brewbound Podcast: Yes. Why they are worth it is because when your fans, every time you do a drop, the fans are like, when are you going to come to us? When are you going to expand to our region? I mean, we've been following those requests from our fans for many years. And so when we were looking at expanding where we should expand, we looked at where are the fans, where are our longstanding fans, and then where is non-local brands still thriving? Because so many states have now such a rich offering of local brewers that we wanted to make sure we don't come into a place where it's already overcrowded. And where is there is value alignment. We looked at how many B Corp in every single state that we were identifying a potential opportunity. And so we took our time because also we wanted to make sure we find partner in our distributor that are committed to 100 percent coal supply chain not just the truck here and there but really a full 100% coal supply chain distribution, and that narrows the list quite a lot. And so we took our time to do proper due diligence, and then we were very happy with Artisan and Specialty and so went forward with them.

[00:28:51] Justin Kendall: So you added North Carolina and Virginia last year. Those were the first new states in five years, if I got this right? Yeah. Are you looking to add new markets this year or like how soon are you looking to expand out?

[00:29:08] Brewbound Podcast: That's a question that a lot of people are wondering. And my answer is we're looking for sustainable growth, like slowly and thoughtfully continue to grow. And it's got to start with our core markets, with core product and core consumers. So we're doubling down in what you know, what we're really good at. But also that's those state expansion is part of incubating the future, you know, three to five years out. North Carolina and Virginia, we called it a test and learn for 2024. We wanted to see is the product going to do well? Is the fan are going to be coming once but coming back? And so this was more based on market drops. And it's been successful and now we are looking to be full on in those two states for 2025, but spend our time supporting those states before we keep on adding and adding. You're not gonna see a press release with three new states every year from us. That's not the goal here.

[00:30:14] Finest Liquids: Smart. And keeping the cold chain thing in mind, how far could you go? I mean, I assume you don't wanna be sending beer to say like California.

[00:30:23] Brewbound Podcast: No, I mean, I'm coming from cheese, where core supply chain is, you know, very important and short shelf life, such as 60 day shelf life. So I'm used to just-in-time production and then really very tight, you know, logistic. But the goal is to stay within the East, you know, and really go one state at a time and incubate, do this well before we move on to the next one.

[00:30:50] Finest Liquids: So beer and cheese pair together in terms of flavor, but they also have many similarities in terms of operations.

[00:30:56] Brewbound Podcast: For sure, yeah, absolutely. Wow, who would have thought?

[00:31:00] Finest Liquids: You, you knew as the expert here. So Lawson's also expanded distribution for Double Sunshine IPA for a limited time. How has that gone? Is there any appetite for doing it again?

[00:31:13] Brewbound Podcast: We did this once because this year is a big year for Sip of Sunshine. And what people may not know is Double Sunshine is the beer that inspired Sip of Sunshine. It's the beer that has been made in Vermont. It was our first double IPA and you can only buy it in Vermont. And so as we kicked off this important year for celebrating Sip of Sunshine and our fans, we felt it was time to release this very hard to get delicious beer into the market and tell the story that Sip of Sunshine was inspired by Double Sunshine. And it's the beer that started it all. So we're doing it for this year. It's almost gone. So, you know, the demand was very strong. And so I don't know if there is much left in the market, but that release is for celebrating this year, not to be duplicated every year.

[00:32:14] Justin Kendall: You've expanded the Sunshine family though with Hazy Rays in 2023. Are you looking at additional family members for the Sunshine brand and what have you learned about building off SIP and I guess double Sunshine?

[00:32:31] Brewbound Podcast: Well we started with a Sip of Sunshine and a little sip and then Hazy Ray for us was a response to to the market. You know as a as a leader in the IP space we saw that hazy IPA was a growing category and we felt it was important for us to deliver that to our fans. We knew our fans were drinking Hazy IPA, they just were not drinking it from us. So we learned a lot through the launch of Hazy IPA. We learned that how to, you know, incrementally launch a product rather than go all in. And then we had to optimize a little bit throughout the year with a product. The fans are really into still this beer category of hazy IPA. So we want to continue to play in that space. And I also use 2025 to clarify what's our portfolio strategy moving forward. You know you've been in beer for so long. the strategy of throw spaghetti at the wall and see what stick is not gonna probably serve us well moving forward. And so right now we're having a conversation with our leadership team and Sean Lawson's like what makes a Lawson's Finest Liquids beer, a Lawson's Finest Liquids beer and be clear about that. So we have a runway to see where are the next category we wanna play in and why. why we believe we can make a better product than what's available right now. Because otherwise, let's not go there.

[00:34:08] Justin Kendall: One of the topics that kept coming up at this year's Brewbound Live, and I guess throughout the last year, has been focus. It was one of the themes that we heard from retailers and wholesalers, and I'm guessing you're hearing a lot of that. So as you dial in and focus, obviously, sip is one of those beers. What else is sort of the focus areas and the growth strategy for you on building on those core products, core offerings?

[00:34:38] Brewbound Podcast: It's segmentation, channel segmentation. When you think of, you know, we measured our household penetration and there is still within the Northeast. so many craft beer drinker that never had a Sip of Sunshine. And where, what are they drinking? Where are they drinking? We, we way over index on draft and on-prem because we really build the brand with package beers. So focusing on, yeah, on-prem and those channel, we also see a lot of opportunity in venues, you know, with consumer now enjoying beer in in settings such as sports, such as music venue, and those consumers really love our, you know, enjoying a Lawson's beer. So trying to, you know, increase our distribution within the footprint with those new opportunities. and focus on the core. We also like to play. The limited release is here for that. And last year, we launched an amazing freestyle, you know, West Coast IPA. We're expanding our Nitro Stouts program. So we want to use limited release as this incubator for new product, test it, and then see what's the response. And then based on that, can a limited release then become a core over the next couple of years? And that's what we're building right now.

[00:36:01] Finest Liquids: So speaking of a channel strategy, something that I just thought of while you were talking right now is I bet the Ski Lodge channel is huge for you guys. What kind of strategy goes into approaching accounts like that? Because I'm sure they have different needs than say your average sports bar. What does that look like when you're going to talk to those buyers? First of all, you gotta ski.

[00:36:25] Brewbound Podcast: You got to ski. And we're surrounded by beautiful mountains. We have Sugarbush in our backyard. We have Mud River Valley. I mean, Vermont is the number four state in the nation for skiing. And so we're surrounded by this incredible sports. And we've been in the valley for, you know, 20, 20 years. And so Sean is still on the peril of one of our ski resort, Mud River Valley, because before he was giving snowshoe tour to tourists. So long story short to say that it's being part of the community, it's offering programs such as tastings, such as supporting their key events at the beginning of the season, end of the season, and it's relationship based. When did those conversations happen? Over the summer? Yes, yes. Over the summer when they plan the coming up season, for example, for two of our local ski resorts, we're making a special beer for them, special IP that's where we partner with the resorts and some of the proceeds of the beer is going to local non-profits. So it's, you know, through new ways of partnering that we work together.

[00:37:44] Finest Liquids: Awesome. Well, I mean, those community partnerships are huge for you guys. I feel like you have so many different beers that connect to causes or people in the community. You do a really great job at making sure that your beer, I feel like, is very much in and of Vermont. And you're also a certified B Corp, which is really difficult to achieve. I think, you know, the press release that we got said fewer than 25 breweries have that designation. So one, you should be really proud. But can you tell us what that designation means to the team? How does everybody regard this almost like the responsibility that comes with being called a certified B Corp?

[00:38:22] Brewbound Podcast: Yeah, that's a great question, Jess. I think for the day to day on how we run our company, we run it the way we always run, which is leaning into our core value, doing the right things because it's the right thing to do. And so community giving, focusing on the environment and installing solar panels throughout the campus are being a great place to work. And then when your employee turns five years anniversary, we're like, OK, we're going to give you a month long sabbatical. That's a new program we launched this year. So all of this is part of who we are and how we just walk the talk. The B Corp certification is basically an audit made by B Lab that comes and look at all your governance, how you treat your employee, your supply chain, and your community, and vets basically your practices against the highest level of standard for social and environmental impact. So it's a seal of quality. It's kind of, you say you do all those great things, but are you really walking the talk? And every three years, you got to be recertified and every three years the standard up a level. So if you just keep, you know, status quo, you may not recertify the following session. So it's also building that program, a notion of continuous improvements. And yeah, we're proud to be only few within the 10,000 craft brewery to have that certification, but it's very meaningful. And we talk about B Corp with our distributor every year at the annual ABP. We actually start the conversation and the business review with our values, the community giving, because we really want to make sure we distill that down through the supply chain and the three tier.

[00:40:14] Justin Kendall: This is your anniversary year coming up. And I guess, you know, can you fill us in on some of the things you all are doing to celebrate such a big occasion?

[00:40:24] Brewbound Podcast: We're going to be doing a lot. And it starts with we're going to celebrate the fans that have been with us for over a decade. And we're going to celebrate the beer that's made, you know, this company what it is today. So as far as activation, there is going to be engagement with the fans for them to submit their story. And so it's just sharing, like capturing those stories of, you know, the fans that have been with us for a very long time. It's going to be engaging. It's going to be giveaways. It's going to be also activation in festivals for us to come and really meet the fans where they are at in moments that they enjoy the most. So you're going to see throughout the year a bunch of different activation, more than we ever done. Rightfully so. It's a big year.

[00:41:17] Finest Liquids: Awesome. Well, Adeline, you are the first non-Lawson CEO to lead the company since its founding. Sean and Karen passed the reins over to you last year. And to kind of celebrate and as a training exercise for you, you guys collaborated on Freestyle IPA. What was that experience like and what did you learn from it?

[00:41:36] Brewbound Podcast: That was a great experience in the sense, I said to Sean, I said, I don't think I can walk and sit at this desk, that is a big desk, without having ever made a beer first. Like, I just don't want to start my job without having brewed beer coming from a product background. It just, it wasn't, didn't feel the right way to start as the leader of Lawson. So he's like, fine, let's go make a beer together. And it was in July, it was in Warren, and it was just a beautiful day. And I asked him, what are we doing? And he's like, we're gonna we're gonna freestyle this. Sean had a vision for what type of beer he wanted to make, and we spent the whole day listening to music, brewing, and I would be asking so many questions about the business and the process, and very often he had to say, just wait a minute, we got to add the hops right now. Wait a minute, we got to... We're going to turn off the heater. And so at the end of the process, I asked him, I was like, what are we going to do with this beer? Because it's probably no good. And he's like, oh, no, it's a good one. We're going to we're going to ferment it and we're going to serve it. And the response in the taproom was amazing. And so twenty twenty four, we decided to launch it. And it was it was very well received. A different profile. It was a very approachable kind of new style West Coast. And I love the packaging.

[00:43:06] Justin Kendall: What kind of music was playing?

[00:43:08] Brewbound Podcast: Fish.

[00:43:09] Justin Kendall: Fish.

[00:43:10] Finest Liquids: All right. I mean, what else? What else? You're in Vermont.

[00:43:16] Justin Kendall: Well, you're a year and a half in to the job. At this point, I guess, you know, how are you feeling? You know, are you, are you feeling like everything's starting to like slow down maybe a little bit? I know once you jump in, everything can feel like everything's coming at the speed of light at you, but you know, how are you feeling?

[00:43:39] Brewbound Podcast: I'm feeling very optimistic. I really am because, you know, craft beer is at a time where you got to think differently. You got to a bit reinvent yourself. And yet it's a beautiful industry with an incredible community, with such a strong fan base. you know, that really helped create this movement and that appreciation for amazing product. And so I'm optimistic that the change that are being made are going to serve us well into the future, whether it's in our business or in the industry. And I'm excited about the focus we're bringing in our company and also the impact we want to have with the growth of the business. And it's very exciting to be telling that story, that you know us for our incredible IPAs and you love us for that SIP. And we want you to know that there is a lot more behind this company that we believe you're going to like and love as well.

[00:44:45] Finest Liquids: Awesome. I mean, other than cold supply chain, what else can beer learn from the world of cheese?

[00:44:50] Brewbound Podcast: I don't know. I think it's it's it's pairing the moments, you know, enjoying great great beer goes along with a lot of amazing product and meals. And so how do we bring back, you know, beer into the conversation at restaurants or at pairings? when it comes to food and also telling the story of the whole process and the whole supply chain, you know, the hops, where it comes from, how it's been harvested. I think there is just a lot there. The soil, you know, we did this partnership with Patagonia Provision on the Kernza beer and talking about regenerative agriculture and and how Kerns can really help with the water and the quality of the soil. I think there is just a lot more to tell that will round up the story and the consumer education beyond just the product.

[00:45:48] Finest Liquids: Awesome. And then one last thing that I always think is so different and special about you guys is that you're not only making beer, running a brewery in a tap room, you're also like kind of innkeepers. You've got two Airbnbs that are in the Lawson's Fam. What is that like and how does that experience add more for your fans?

[00:46:10] Brewbound Podcast: Yes, it's the whole destination. When you come to Vermont, you can stay in the house where Sean and Karen left for many years. And literally you wake up and you see the Wizard in a workshop, which is the brewery where we started. And you may see Sean Lawson there making beer that day.

[00:46:29] Finest Liquids: At the brewery, not like at your Airbnb.

[00:46:32] Brewbound Podcast: In the backyard of the Airbnb, yes. Disclaimer, you think you have the place for yourself, but there might be somebody in the backyard brewing beer in that little shed. I think that's unique. How many companies still have their original place and workshop where you can go and see and experience and stay at? So I think it's it's exciting to have those those two accommodation and then where people can also come to the tap room we call it a third place and they can sip they can stay you know and just stay for a beer or have a full meal and A lot of product we use in our menu are local. So the person, you can eat the cheese board with a charcuterie and Erica from Babette, who's the maker of those sausages could be at the bar having a beer too. So it's just such a community centric experience. It's pretty cool. And so immersive. Very cool.

[00:47:32] Justin Kendall: Yeah. What's your occupancy rate on that? How often is it rented out?

[00:47:37] Brewbound Podcast: Oh, I think it's pretty good in the sense we also save it for when we have guests, when our team wants to come, our sales team. And we just finally listed it on Airbnb and VRBO. So now you can check it out.

[00:47:56] Justin Kendall: Wow. That's pretty sweet.

[00:47:59] Finest Liquids: Yeah. Come over. You should come over. Rebound Team Retreat.

[00:48:02] Justin Kendall: Yeah.

[00:48:02] Finest Liquids: Here we go. With Sean.

[00:48:05] Justin Kendall: It's like that Nick Saban commercial. Well, thanks for doing this. We really appreciate catching up with you.

[00:48:14] Finest Liquids: It's always a delight.

[00:48:15] Brewbound Podcast: Well, thank you. Like I mentioned to you, being new into the craft brewing industry and world, it can be very overwhelming. What source of information do you want to learn and get access to onboard? You certainly have been the voice and the teachers for me, so I appreciate all the work you do and your podcast and the end-of-week wrap-up because this is when I catch up.

[00:48:42] Finest Liquids: Oh my gosh, thank you so much. And you will hear from our marketing team soon to do a testimonial. So thank you.

[00:48:50] Brewbound Podcast: Sign me up.

[00:48:52] Finest Liquids: Adeline, so great to be with you. Thank you so much for joining us.

[00:48:55] Brewbound Podcast: Thank you so much. We appreciate you.

[00:48:57] Finest Liquids: And that is our episode for this week. Thank you so much to Adeline and the team at Lawsons for all they do. Thank you to Justin and Zoe. If you enjoyed this episode, we will be back with a fresh one next week.