Brewbound Podcast: How to Make a Summer Shandy Work Year-Round

[00:00:00] Justin Kendall: How do you make a Summer Shandy year-round? Find out next on the Brewbound Podcast. Hello and welcome to the Brewbound podcast. I'm your host, Justin Kendall. And this week is a shortened week due to the July 4 holiday. So we're going to bring you a twofer of conversations recorded at the Craft Brewers Conference. First, you'll hear from Derrick Correia, CEO of Reserve Bar on the state of e-commerce and creating community in the digital sphere. Then I'll chat with Tony Bugher and John Leinenkugel from Molson Coors' John Leinenkugel on their decision to make Summer Shandy a year-round offering. Stay tuned for those conversations. Due to the July 4 holiday, we won't be recording a new segment on this week's episode. However, Jess, Zoe, and I are still filing stories over at Brewbound.com. If you're a Brewbound insider, you can read about Kirin moving its U.S. production to New Belgium and out of Anheuser-Busch and Bev after almost 30 years. They're moving all that production to New Belgium's facilities in North Carolina and Colorado. So you can check out that story. You can read about layoffs at Artisanal Brewing Ventures. We've learned that between two and four dozen employees have lost their jobs. You can also check out the latest Beer Purchasers Index to find out the latest in wholesaler ordering. And let's just say it hasn't been great for craft as June marked the 28th straight month of contraction. You can also read the latest Around With Q&A feature with Yonder Ciders' Caitlin Bram. All those stories are available now to Brewbound Insiders. And before we get to this week's featured interviews, I would ask you to please like, rate, review, and subscribe to this podcast. A five-star rating like a five-star wrestling match is always appreciated. We're also busy putting together this December's Brewbound Live Business Conference. Go to Brewbound.com to check out the latest on speakers and all the information there that we have so far. I'm really excited about this year's conference. It's taking place December 11 and 12 in Marina Del Rey, California. So go to Brewbound.com, check it out. Tickets available now. With all that out of the way, let's get to our featured interviews, starting with Derrick Correia from Reserve Bar.

[00:02:48] Jessica Infante: Welcome back to The Trade Show at the Craft Brewers Conference. We are in the Brewbound podcast on location studio. I'm Jessica Infante. I'm Zoe Licata. And joining us is Derrick Correia, CEO of Reserve Bar. And if you are not in the loop, they are a major player in beverage, alcohol, e-commerce. So you should know them. Derek, how you doing?

[00:03:11] Derrick Correia: I'm doing great. What an intro. That was fantastic. Thanks.

[00:03:14] Jessica Infante: Thank you.

[00:03:16] Derrick Correia: Killing the intros today.

[00:03:17] Jessica Infante: We should just do this all the time because people say nice things to me. So, Derek, I hate to start with the obvious, but we should start with the obvious. We're now almost a month out from Drizzly shutdown. How has the BevAlk e-commerce landscape shifted?

[00:03:32] Derrick Correia: Well, Drizly obviously was a major player and I think maybe some people were surprised by this. People who've been following this weren't really, to me, the strategy of Uber Eats acquiring Drizly was very much someday to subsume it into the Uber Eats application. I think What they might have missed was that the Drizzly shopping journey, which was really built to buy beverage alcohol as opposed to the Uber Eats journey, which is mostly about getting food from restaurants, is quite different. So I think they probably struggled a little bit to figure out how to migrate those customers over. They have migrated many of them, but that leaves a lot of people who've previously used that app and liked that shopping journey. available to those of us who have similar type shopping journeys that are brand first, product first. And in fact, minibar delivery, which is one of the platforms we operate, is benefiting from this. It has a very similar journey to Drizzly, like basically a digital liquor store that makes it easy to shop for things, find things you're looking for, cart them and get them brought to you in about an hour. Whereas Reserve Bar is much more of a content-rich, sort of serving enthusiasts and people that are passionate about spirits, looking for new products, looking for information, and a more robust shopping journey from a content and support of finding and discovering and buying high-end products.

[00:04:58] Molson Coors-owned: Are there a lot of consumers looking out there for more of a deeper experience in the digital shopping space? Like, how has that evolved recently?

[00:05:06] Derrick Correia: It has evolved. I mean, the digital space is a great place to learn and educate yourself. And if you're just going to buy a case of Budweiser or a Modelo, you don't really need that, right? But if you're somebody who's an enthusiast on craft beer, you're always looking for information. You're always trying to find out what's new, whether it's another release from a brewery you like. or a brewer you haven't tried yet. So finding places where you can get easy-to-access information that's trusted, that helps you gain confidence, because let's face it, beer's getting more and more expensive, and especially good beer, right? So you don't really want to blow it when you're trying something new, especially if you're buying a case of something as opposed to just a four-pack. So there are a lot of places where you're seeing more content to commerce, and sometimes that happens on a commerce site like a Reserve Bar or Mini Bar. Sometimes that happens on a content site where you're increasingly going somewhere to read about or learn or watch videos and connecting that moment to the ability to buy that product quickly and without friction is something that's very important to this industry and the consumer.

[00:06:19] Jessica Infante: Can you walk us through the consumer's journey with Reserve Bar?

[00:06:24] Derrick Correia: Yeah, sure. So first of all, I think it's helpful sometimes to think about how they get to ReserveBar because the journey starts before that sometimes, right? And a lot of times that's because a brand who's advertised digitally and has somebody leaning in and interested in their viewing an ad or they've even gone to a brand's website. they send that traffic to us. And the reason why they do that is when you land on a PDP or a collection page on Reserve Bar, we don't cross-sell other brands. So we preserve that journey for that brand. We work with the brands to have their brand story tell, to have their video, their content, their ingredient story, whatever it is that they want to impart to that consumer as they're on their way to checkout and buying that product. So what happens is if you come in that way or you come because you maybe saw something in organic search you were looking for, or you just came to Reserve Park, as you know, that we're a leader in spirits and wine, you would come. You could come to the homepage. You can shop collections and different. If you're giving gifts, you can look at gift. collections. If you're looking for a particular spirit like bourbon, you can shop and discover bourbon. You can go to the cocktail lounge and learn about different cocktails and recipes and what brands we recommend. You can find single barrel releases that we do, right? So all of that is kind of an important aspect for people who are not necessarily just wanting to add a product to carton checkout. You can certainly do that, but there's much more there. So we get a lot of time spent on our site, a lot of page clerks, a lot of people are learning more about scotch or bourbon or Añejo tequila. And we're putting more of that kind of content on mini bar delivery as well. We also launched a site about a year and a half ago called Get Stocked. And Get Stocked was meant to replicate the reserve bar shopping journey for craft beer and seltzer. So you have much more content rich shopping environment. You have preserved brand journeys and all that same kind of.

[00:08:26] Jessica Infante: Amazing. I mean, I think, I assume, I could be wrong, that craft breweries, some craft breweries on the smaller end of the spectrum, assume that this is out of reach for them. Or it's something that maybe shouldn't really be in their toolkit. But I know that's not true. So what would you say to that?

[00:08:41] Derrick Correia: You are correct. Thank you. Yeah. So the funny thing about e-commerce is, first of all, a lot of people mistake it as a channel, right? And they think, oh, there's on-premise, there's off-premise, and then there's e-commerce. But the reality is that e-commerce, 99% of the depletions that are driven through e-commerce are actually pulled out of a licensed retailer. So we're just creating an easier way for you to have more certainty around that product that you're interested in being available as opposed to if I go to a store and I'm looking for a particular craft beer, it might not be on shelf at all at that store or it might be out of stock, right? So it becomes very important, especially to craft brands and brands that are early in their journey. Because we sort of perfect the, hey, I'm looking to buy this particular, you know, IPA or whatever it might be. And when I'm buying it in an e-commerce environment, the technology is going to do the work to make sure I'm matched with a retailer that has that product in stock. The other thing that's going to happen is, I don't necessarily have to have a national product, right? If my product is only available in California or only available in Florida, that would be the only place I'm really marketing it. That would be the only place that people would really be shopping for it. And so, if they're shopping in e-commerce in the state where you are, they're going to be able to find your product. And even if they're not near you to pull it through like an on-demand situation, when you're early on, people will pay to have beer shipped to them, especially if it's something that they've tried at a brewery and they're like, that beer is fantastic. Then they go back home and they go to three or four stores and they're like, oh, we don't carry that. And of course, if you're a craft beer brewer, you always tell people, well, ask the retailers for it because that's how I'm going to get orders for it. But if they don't have it, you can get it shipped to you and e-commerce can facilitate that. So what e-commerce does is it facilitates more reach early in a craft, beer's brand journey and distribution journey. It enables you to impart all of the right information that you, I know we wish our cans sort of like had a label that scrolled out and gave you like another five square feet for you to tell everything, right? But you got to cram it on that can and it's hard to do. And a lot of times the, you know, people working in a lot of stores may not know what your brand story is or to complete it. Right? So what we're telling brands to do now is actually to put commerce on their own brand's website. So increasingly, our technology is about how do we find every moment of potential purchase in the digital world and bring that ability to card and checkout closer to that moment. And if you have somebody on your craft brand's website, Well, how did you get in there? Why are they there? That's a pretty awesome situation that they're even there kicking your tires or reading your story or whatever it is. Give them the ability to put a product in cart and check out right there. Now you benefit from knowing who your true consumer is. And there are beer brands that have been around for 100 years, they don't actually know anybody that's an actual consumer and know what they bought. They get data from Nielsen, they get IRI data, they get stale macro, anonymized data, right? But you could have a store, you know, power a store on your own brand site, and in a month, let's say you only sold, you know, 20 cases, but you might have 30 or 40 customers, you know their name, you know where they live, you know what they bought, you can have a relationship with them, you can survey them, you can leverage them to get their friends to try your product, it's an incredibly powerful aspect of e-commerce.

[00:12:19] Molson Coors-owned: We've had a handful of e-commerce conversations over the past couple of years and that part has been huge, that ability to create a community with your digital presence and just being able to know about your consumer. The brands that have Great Notion have done this where they are very determined to be an e-commerce place because they know, I know who my consumer is, I know exactly who is buying my product. That information thing you brought up earlier too of just like the amount you can put out there through an e-commerce retailer or something about just what your brand is to connect that with the consumer. I know I'm scrolling, even if I'm in this physical store, I'm looking at a digital platform to learn about that brand. So that information piece is huge.

[00:13:02] Derrick Correia: Oh, it's huge. And efficiency is important for every business, whether you're Anheuser-Busch or Constellation or you're somebody who just bought a three-barrel brewing system and you're just going. But the other thing that that does for you is you're probably going to find early on your most efficient marketing spend, aside from selling and the channel and sales sheets and all that kind of stuff you have to do, is digital, right? Digital, it's measurable. But it becomes really powerful when you can run, say, five different campaigns, and you can know, wait, that second campaign sold 50 cases of beer. The next best one only sold two cases. From now on, what does that mean? Why did that campaign do better? I'm going to put all my money into that campaign, and when I spend more money, I'm going to do things that were the kinds of things that that campaign did, right? That efficiency, especially when you're a young company and brand and you don't really have a lot of money to spend on marketing, becomes a really important aspect that digital e-commerce enables.

[00:14:06] Jessica Infante: So for small and independent craft brewers that are newer, what are the table stakes for showing up in e-commerce? What is just your baseline?

[00:14:14] Derrick Correia: Well, it can be too early. Like if you really are on no shelves yet and you're basically living off of your tap room right now and maybe you've got like, you know, your uncle Charlie knew somebody at a grocery store, so they placed an order and you're in like, it's probably too early then, right? But if you're self-distributing or you have a distributor and you're on shelf and you have a few dozen locations, Then it becomes a matter of, are any of those locations in our network of retailers, right? And you can always talk to us and we'll have that conversation. And we're eager to help entrepreneurs and people in this industry. So if it's not a retailer we have, we'll see if we can get them to join our network so we can help power commerce for your site. And like I said, If you just have one retailer and that retailer is willing to ship for you, you know, whatever state you're in, if you're in New York or New Jersey or Florida or Illinois or whatever, as soon as you have one retailer that ships in our network, you can reach every person in that state. That is... a step change situation for a brewery, and especially if you're a destination brewery, right? If you get a lot of people that come to your brewery and love your beer, and you're still in that process of getting it out there to be bought outside of your brewery, that's an important step for you as a craft brewer.

[00:15:38] Molson Coors-owned: For Reserve Bar, you're here at the Craft Brewers Conference. What does this event do for you? Is there something you're looking forward to at this event? Or is it just connecting with craft brewers? What do you get out of this?

[00:15:49] Derrick Correia: Yeah, it's all those things. I mean, the content here is really good. So we try to get into some of the sessions and learn from the brilliant panelists and speakers that they have here. A lot of the people we do business with are here, so it's easy to kind of centralize a bunch of meetings with retailers and brands and that sort of thing. But also, we're here evangelizing that we have platforms that can work and support the growth of the craft brewing industry, and in particular, our content-to-commerce solutions and our white label solutions for brands to put on their website. We'd love to have as many brands do that as possible. That's a super important thing. And if you're doing that now, it may feel like you're an early adopter, but you're not. The beer industry is just, it's just behind. Wine has been doing DTC for 20 plus years successfully, and spirits now for over 10. And the time is right. It's already, all the mistakes have been made. How you win is already known. So we can certainly be helpful to any brand that's thinking about it.

[00:16:56] Jessica Infante: So Derek, what else do we need to know about the state of e-commerce and how it pertains to Kraft Brewers?

[00:17:02] Derrick Correia: Yeah, what I would say is that we're very focused right now on building a significant technology stack or tech stack, as we call it in the industry, where in every logical moment you can think of that, hey, would it make sense for somebody to be able to buy alcohol online from their phone in this exact moment, we're going to be facilitating that with our technology. So that's everything from, let's say you're at an event and you're sampling and people are tasting your beer and they're like, oh wow, everybody loves our beer. Instead of just sending them off into the ether or they're watching the next concert, you know, band at the concert that you've sponsored or where you have a tent, have a QR code, let them shoot that code, take them right to your website where they can buy a case of your beer because they just tried it and they liked it, right? That's a logical moment. When you think about all the places where there's content and people are writing about beer, we're actually going to make that content shoppable. So if you're on another website that's a publisher that, or, you know, we should make everything you guys do. Every time a brand is mentioned, it could be purchased. If we were talking about a particular brand right now, hey, that brand sounds good, boom, add it to cart and buy it wherever you are. We've been talking to the folks at Untappd, think about how many people are using that app to review, explore, and discover beer brands. They ought to be able to buy them within that app and our technology can facilitate that. So that's really, I think you're going to see a future where, you know, maybe someday it's even like you just thought about a beer and it's in your cart and you can just buy it.

[00:18:41] Jessica Infante: Oh, my goodness. That sounds dangerous.

[00:18:43] Molson Coors-owned: I know. That immediacy is huge, though, because you just think about all the times where you've like saw a brand or thought about a brand. You're like, oh, I really want to get that. And then you forget about it until like a couple of months down the line or something and you're reminded. But to have that option right away is massive.

[00:18:57] Derrick Correia: Of course. And then the other thing I would think of is, I think it's important to think of occasions. If you're in this business, you think of your target in terms of demos and psychographics and lifestyle, and that's all fine. But most purchases in most categories, and it's true in beer as well, are driven by an occasion. What is the reason why I need beer now? Is it because I want a four-pack? Because I just want to go home and have these beers when I come home from work because I have a beer or two at night. Our friend's coming over to watch a ballgame. Am I filling a cooler? Because we're going to the tailgate this week and I'm the tailgate guy. I got to fill that cooler, right? So all of these kinds of occasions, we're figuring out what is the way that you solve for those with e-commerce that makes it easier and more convenient. And that's a good example, right? Like, I might like to be the guy that's picking up all of the beer and the hard seltzers and so forth, because I don't want my friend to get bad beer. I'd rather be in control of it myself. But it's a pain in the ass. I got to go, you know, five, six cases worth and a big cooler for a tailgate. that's a lot of product for me to go and shop and put in a cart and lug back home and put it in the cooler. It'd be a lot better if it's like, all right, I'm going to order this ahead of time, Saturday morning, somebody's going to drop off the five cases at my house, and that's one less thing I got to worry about, and I'll be bringing the beer to the game, right? So there's, when you start to think about occasions, I think there's naturally ways to think about how e-commerce can solve for that being more efficient for you as a advertiser and for the consumer as well.

[00:20:32] Jessica Infante: Before we let you go, I know we're talking a lot about web, but how does this also pertain to social media? Could there eventually be a time where a TikToker says, blah, blah, blah, beer, and then something pops up and you can just click on it and order it?

[00:20:47] Derrick Correia: That's already happening. That time is now.

[00:20:49] Jessica Infante: Look, here's the thing. I'm old and not cool, so I don't know.

[00:20:52] Derrick Correia: Join the club. Yeah. Yeah, influencers are a big deal in a lot of categories and beverage alcohol is certainly one where influencers can make a difference. And so, yeah, you can absolutely do that. And if you think about the tools that we have now, commerce can be facilitated anywhere with our technology. So the ability to explore a catalog, learn about those products, cart them and check out, can happen in just about any place that you can possibly think of in the digital landscape.

[00:21:25] Jessica Infante: Awesome. Wine, I think, super established, well entrenched. Spirits are there, but not as much as wine. So I think spirits are probably a better thing that brewers can learn from right now. What can they take away from what spirits brands are doing to succeed online?

[00:21:42] Derrick Correia: One of the things that is very successful in the spirits industry that would be the same in beer would be new product launches or limited time offers when you're only going to make a five barrel batch of something or you're doing releases. The old fashioned way is if you have a tap room and you sometimes only release a tap room only. people queue up starting at seven in the morning just to get there, limit one four-pack per person or whatever it is. All of those things lend themselves to e-commerce as a better experience. You may think it's cool as a brewery owner that, hey, how awesome is it, 700 people were waiting in line outside of our brewery. They didn't like doing that. Nobody likes waking up at four o'clock in the morning and standing in a line for seven hours to get a four pack of beer, right? You can facilitate that through e-commerce to have a better experience for your customer and a more easy and fluid experience for your brewer.

[00:22:43] Jessica Infante: I'm almost ashamed to say this, but I, many moons ago, had bonus goals to have two line generating events. Like, I mean, this was in the days of the line culture. So I don't think anybody was happy there.

[00:22:58] Derrick Correia: No. I mean, you can't even serve them a beer while they're waiting in line. Like, oh, the humanity.

[00:23:06] Jessica Infante: God. Well, Derek, this has been awesome. I'm so glad you came by.

[00:23:11] Molson Coors-owned: Thanks for coming.

[00:23:12] Derrick Correia: Fantastic. Thanks so much for having me. Always a pleasure.

[00:23:14] Jessica Infante: This was great.

[00:23:15] Derrick Correia: Take care.

[00:23:19] Justin Kendall: This is Justin Kendall from the Craft Brewers Conference, and right now I'm joined by Tony Bugher and John Leinenkugel from... Leinenkugel's.

[00:23:27] Summer Shandy: John Leinenkugel Brewing Company, Chippewa Falls, Wisconsin. There you go. Since 1867, Justin, you are sitting with two generations John Leinenkugel. Fifth and sixth, yes. My nephew, Tony Bugher. So that is spelled Bugher, but it's pronounced Buhrer. True. And Tony is... one of my sister Kate's sons and sister Kate was born first in the fifth generation of the Lonnie Kugel family and I'll let Tony tell you even though you didn't ask you should know of you because the listeners out there want to know who Tony Bugher is, and he's our current brewery president, but he has lineage dating back to his mother, and there's a great story about your mother, Tony, Kate Buer, and Kathy Leiningkugel. So what is that?

[00:24:18] Tony Bugher: Yeah, she was the first tour guide at our brewery, 1967.

[00:24:23] Summer Shandy: when the brewery turned 100 years old.

[00:24:26] Justin Kendall: Pretty cool. That is pretty awesome. And I've seen you speak multiple times at the Molson Coors-owned Distributor Convention.

[00:24:33] Summer Shandy: Yeah, MCDC. Justin, how did you get into the Molson Coors-owned Distributor Convention? They don't let me in there. They don't let you in anymore? Do you need a media pass? Do you need to have a podcast?

[00:24:43] Justin Kendall: Yeah, maybe you should. You've got the credentials, you know, 100 years plus. Why not start the pod already?

[00:24:51] Summer Shandy: Maybe I should. Then I would get invited into that conference.

[00:24:55] Justin Kendall: But they let Tony in.

[00:24:56] Summer Shandy: They let Tony in. He can speak to the masses. How great is it to be at the Craft Brewers Conference?

[00:25:03] Justin Kendall: It's pretty great. You know, otherwise I'd be sitting at home with a two-year-old, which is still pretty great. Right, but wouldn't we all? So one of the things that's going on John Leinenkugel is Summer Shandy is now year-round. It is. So what had to change in your operations to accommodate making that a year-round beer?

[00:25:24] Tony Bugher: You know, we have been arguing about this for decades, whether it should be year-round or not. And I think it got to a point where, from an operational standpoint, we can keep up with production and supply. And from a distributor standpoint, they've been asking for this for, like I said, decades, and just finally had to make the decision. Our retailers want it, our distributors want it. So it all came down to that kind of this point in time where it was like, let's move forward and do this.

[00:25:57] Summer Shandy: Justin, one more thing, you know, and Tony hasn't forgotten this. He just didn't say it, but the beer drinker. themselves had always asked for it. Hey, make this. They love the beer and they want it year round. Even though it says Summer Shandy, they go, I want this beer year round. You know, where can I find it? Would you make it year round? Our social media has always kind of blown up. you know, right after Labor Day. So we're excited to finally get out of our own way, get out of our own shadow, not be afraid of it, make a big, bold decision and make Summer Shandy a year-round beer.

[00:26:37] Justin Kendall: So what are you going to have to do in the back half of the year to support it? Because, I mean, you haven't had to do that in the past.

[00:26:45] Tony Bugher: Yeah, well, you know, it's all about marketing in different regions, different parts of the country. Summer Shandy means different things. So it's all about marketing. And we'll come out with different marketing messages that help support and fuel Summer Shandy. Summer is a state of mind. I genuinely believe that, specifically in states like Wisconsin and Minnesota, where, you know, our drinkers and fans are feeling the brunt of winter, but still enjoy that beer and that brand. In addition to that, we're still going to have complimentary brands that we're offering, Lining Kugel's Red. And then in addition to that, we're also bringing back Big Eddie this winter, which I'm really, really thrilled about. So I think it's a combination of all of those things. based on what we have learned through analytics and data that, you know, Summer Shandy still turns just as good as a lot of other winter brands at that same time of year in those specific places like Wisconsin and Minnesota. So it's all about education. It's all about marketing. It's all, you know, just about learning.

[00:27:58] Justin Kendall: So for you, what's going to be the metric of success for that brand in the winter months?

[00:28:04] Tony Bugher: I think it's going to be the evaluation of confidence in our distributors and retailers and drinkers. And, you know, I think John and I are both confident that it is going to perform really well based on all of the learnings that we've had, the data that we've gotten, the feedback that we've gotten from our fans and drinkers. There's a lot of confidence. So I think that's what the success and that's what good looks like for us.

[00:28:33] Summer Shandy: The learning for me was to learn that Summer Shandy sells. I mean, we're all in the business of not only brewing great beer, but selling great beer. And Tony said this, Summer Shandy as a beer sells faster. and more than any other Lining Kugel brand of beer that we have available, even during the winter months in the upper Midwest. So that's kind of the metric. Will it continue to sell well? We'll listen to our distributors, we'll listen to our retailers, we'll continue to listen to our beer drinkers. That's where we get our education and feedback from. But the metric is, is it wanted? Is it selling? Is it selling faster than, say, Liney's Red, Liney's Oktoberfest, or a Bach, or a Snowdrift Vanilla Porter, or a Chocolate Dunkle that we might bring back out during that time of year. And if it sells faster than those other great brands of Liney Kugelsbier, then it's successful.

[00:29:36] Justin Kendall: I think you said something that I thought was interesting is you've decided to get out of your own way on this. And I think that that's an interesting perspective to sort of take a step back, take the ego out of it and say, this is working. Why aren't we doing this year round?

[00:29:52] Summer Shandy: Well, Justin, it helped that Tony's uncle, Dick Lonning Kugel, finally retired.

[00:30:00] Tony Bugher: No, I think, I mean, John makes a good point. Like I said, we've been arguing about it for a long time, and a lot of key stakeholders have had different opinions. You know, there's a lot of points of view out there around reasons why we should and shouldn't do it. And the reality is, again, it goes back to this beer is beloved by our fans. It's been in the market for over 16 years, which says something. It's powerful. And so, in my view, there's no reason to not do this. There really isn't. I mean, if the data says one thing and our drinkers and retailers and fans are kind of singing the same tune, then, you know, to John's point, get out of our own way and just do it.

[00:30:45] Justin Kendall: Well, there are two other brands that you're leaning into, and that's Lakeside Cherry and Juicy Peach. So tell me how those are trending and how you're feeling about those heading into the summer.

[00:30:55] Tony Bugher: Lakeside Cherry is doing really well. You know, we released it just in the Midwest, package only, and it has since outperformed our release of Juicy Peach two years ago in the Midwest as well. So Early results are really, really strong. I'm very pleased about things. We'll see how things progress throughout the summer, but I think it's a perfect beer. Great style for us John Leinenkugel's, good style for the Summer Shandy the spring, and I'm happy about it so far.

[00:31:28] Justin Kendall: I think that's one of the things that stands out to me John Leinenkugel's is you've always leaned into these fruit forward, flavor forward beers, and those are having a moment right now.

[00:31:40] Tony Bugher: You know, for us, it's a tricky balance because we don't want to be known for just a fruit brewery. We don't want to be known for that. But at the same time, Summer Shandy, as I mentioned, is so big and so powerful for us that, you know, we have to pay attention to it. We have to kind of brew beers and styles that we believe in and that our drinkers and fans believe in too. So, you know, we often kind of tow that delicate line of like, what should we be doing versus, you know, what, what can we be doing? And I think Lakeside Cherry is a good representation of that, Juicy Peach as well. But we've got two pilot breweries that we play around with different recipes and styles and just kind of come up with with different things that we try to think about for the future and in the end, what we want to do as a brewery is. not only deliver great beers for, you know, Summer Shandy, Juicy Peach, Lakeside Cherry, fruit forward beers, but also innovate and keep playing around with different styles. I mean, that's what we're known for.

[00:32:53] Justin Kendall: What's one thing you have coming up that you're pretty excited about? Big Eddie. Big Eddie? Bringing that back. Tell me more about that.

[00:33:00] Tony Bugher: I'll defer to John because he was closest to Big Eddie years ago, but it's something I'm really, really thrilled about bringing back this fall and winter as a limited time offer.

[00:33:14] Summer Shandy: Tony's excited, Justin, because here's a brand of beer or a lineup of beers that we created in 2007 and the following year in 2008, and they eventually went away in less than a decade. So they were gone before 2018, before 2017. And Tony's excited because you're hearing that buzz in our business with our distributors, with our retailers, and again, the people that we listen closest to, our beer drinkers. They're a lineup of beers, world-class recipes, started with an Imperial IPA in 2007. Then we did a Imperial Stout in 2008. Two world-class recipes that our drinkers, and drinkers that don't drink Lining Kugels, because we've become known for Sunset Wheat, Summer Shandy, Berry Weiss, Honey Weiss, but here were styles of beer that they did not expect from a 157-year-old Germanic brewery that they went, wow, cannot believe Lining Kugel's brewed this. That gives me goosebumps to this day to tell that story and talk about. That's why Tony, our current brewery president, is excited, because he's hearing and feeling the buzz. We all are. These beers, the Imperial Stout, is on tap. right now at our Lonnie Lodge in Chippewa Falls, Wisconsin. The brew, the Imperial Stout, coming out of our pilot brewery there. And then it's also on tap at American Family Field at the J. Lonnie Kugel Brewery barrel yard, the Jacob Lonnie Kugel barrel yard inside the stadium where our Milwaukee Brewers play baseball, American Family Field. So The drinker is already getting their first taste of our Imperial Stout, and it's big, it's bold, it's rich. As I like to say, and not everybody likes this description, but I'm gonna use it on the Brew Bound podcast, it pours like motor oil and it tastes sweet like molasses. I think that's a good description. Thank you. Have you had it, John?

[00:35:26] Justin Kendall: I've had it in my time. I actually lived not far from Aligning Kugel's taproom in, well, it was like a taproom space in Kansas City. Yeah. Power and light distribution. Right in there. Yeah. So I've got one last question for you, and it's for you, John. I hope you have 20 more questions.

[00:35:46] Summer Shandy: I wish I did. This is the most comfortable I've been all day. The only thing I'm missing is John Leinenkugel's beer. I don't know why you didn't bring any. Yeah, well, I'm looking at the brewery president. He's wearing it, but yeah, we don't have any.

[00:36:01] Justin Kendall: So we were talking about this before we went on, and you're a huge Kiss fan. I am. And we know that Kiss are a bunch of capitalists.

[00:36:10] Tony Bugher: Sure.

[00:36:10] Justin Kendall: And I'm not sure that there's ever been a Kiss beer. So why hasn'John Leinenkugel's done the Kiss beer at this point.

[00:36:19] Tony Bugher: Okay. Let's unpack this, John.

[00:36:21] Summer Shandy: Right. Love the question. So, Kiss are capitalists. Really, that's half true. That's 50% true. Because really only Gene Simmons, the founders of the band, Paul Stanley, Gene Simmons, are, you know, money-loving people. And God bless them for that. They've both been highly successful and You know, and have had a great life, built a great life, and what a brand they have built beyond rock and roll. So why not a Kiss beer? I don't know. I can't answer that, but I can make some safe, educated guess. They're not drinkers.

[00:36:59] Tony Bugher: That's true. Yeah.

[00:37:00] Summer Shandy: Gene doesn't drink. They're really not drinkers. Paul loves wine. He likes the great German-style Hefeweizen. I've been fortunate to have a few brief one-on-one interactions with my favorite member of KISS, Paul Stanley, the Starchild. His dad, who was from Poland, loved Hefeweizens. So I think there was some attraction or interest from Paul in what his dad liked. But there have been Kiss beers, believe it or not, but not totally, fully licensed and endorsed by the band. And if there's one thing that I did wrong in my tenure at Lonnie Kugel's is I didn't get that done.

[00:37:45] Justin Kendall: Well, if you could talk to the president of Line and Kugels right now and ask him. Who's on my right shoulder, your left shoulder? I mean, Hefeweizen sounds like a style that might fit there. You know, there seems to be some synergy. Can we make this happen?

[00:38:00] Summer Shandy: You know, what I've learned is you can do anything you want. You just have to have the desire to get it done. But things aren't easy, you know, nothing's easy, nothing comes easy. And yeah, I don't know, I bring that, right now I'm just trying to get Tony, Tony Bugher. I'm just trying to get, and this was my latest ask at this morning's Craft Brewers Conference in Las Vegas, Nevada, was Tony, can we get a kiss pinball machine? in the Limey Lodge.

[00:38:30] Justin Kendall: I think that's where it starts. So I think it starts there.

[00:38:33] Tony Bugher: Baby steps.

[00:38:34] Justin Kendall: Can we get the pinball machine?

[00:38:36] Tony Bugher: Look, we can do that. I think back to back to the original or back to what I was mentioning before, like we we have these pilot systems in the Limey Lodge and at American Family Field. They're really good opportunities for us to innovate. We can do whatever we want there. Brew whatever we want, play around with different recipes and styles, make up names, whatever. And if it's, you know, if it fails or if it's not something that our drinkers want or our brewers don't like, then it's not a big deal. Commercializing it is a very different proposition. But the fact that we have invested in these these properties, you know, with these pilot systems, allow us to have the opportunity to play around. So, you know, we joke around about like this Kiss beer, but it's, it's a reality. I mean, all of these different opportunities where we can play around and, and brew different beers are right there for us to be able to do that. And so I'm really thrilled and fortunate that we have those investments and those properties in place that allow us to do that. And, you know, we'll essentially inform our future. Absolutely.

[00:39:48] Justin Kendall: Well, I'm looking forward to trying Starchild HEF whenever you put it out. It's coming.

[00:39:54] Summer Shandy: Thanks for doing this, Tony. Thanks for doing this, John. I would sit with the headphones on in front of a microphone until I passed out. I love Brewbone. I love podcasts.

[00:40:06] Tony Bugher: Thanks for having us.

[00:40:07] Summer Shandy: I love people that love great beer. Cheers to Lining Kugels. Cheers to life in linings. Thanks for being a fan. Thanks for having Tony and I on with all of your listeners. Appreciate it. My pleasure.

[00:40:18] Justin Kendall: Thanks for doing it. And that's our show for this week. Thanks to Jess and Zoe for all they do. Thanks to the Brewbound AV team for putting this together. And thanks to all of you for listening. Have a good 4th of July. We'll be back next week.