Brewbound Podcast: Garrett Oliver Dishes on Fonio Rising; Plus, Breeze Galindo Discusses the Michael James Jackson Foundation for Brewing & Distilling

[00:00:00] Breeze Galindo: Happy New Year, everyone. Next on The Brewbound Podcast. Hello and welcome to The Brewbound Podcast.

[00:00:17] Justin Kendall: I'm Justin Kendall.

[00:00:18] Zoe Licata: And I'm Zoe Licata.

[00:00:19] Justin Kendall: And I'm Sean McNulty. I'm not Jess. So just FYI, although I am from New Jersey, so it does count as a half Jess. Well, maybe a quarter Jess.

[00:00:26] Zoe Licata: We have a requirement that there has to be at least one person.

[00:00:29] Justin Kendall: I have to fill the quota. 2025, that quota is not going away. I know we're not quite there yet, but we're keeping that in 2025.

[00:00:34] Breeze Galindo: It's company mandated at this point. Jess is actually in a car on her way home to Massachusetts from New Jersey. Oh, okay. All right. Definitely. All right. Makes sense. So this week we've got a lot to talk about, catch up on, but we have a pair of interviews with 2024 Brewbound Award winners. Zoe's going to chat with Breeze Galindo, who will be here to talk about the Michael James Jackson Foundation of Brewing and Distilling. It was our 2024 Cause of the Year. And then Zoe is going to chat with Garrett Oliver, the brewmaster of Brooklyn Brewery, on Fonio Rising, the 2024 Product of the Year. Zoe doing all the heavy lifting this week.

[00:01:17] Justin Kendall: Yeah, Justin, what are you doing? Anything around these parts anymore? What's going on?

[00:01:20] Breeze Galindo: Permanent vacation for me.

[00:01:21] Zoe Licata: It's purely coincidence that these two are this happened, but they were two really great conversations and Garrett also the one who created MJF, but we got to talk to him about Phony OVR. So he kind of got two awards this season, but two very nice people, two very cool conversations. So I, they might've been my favorite too. So this is going to be a very lovely episode.

[00:01:44] Breeze Galindo: Yeah, I think I butchered the name there. It's the Michael James Jackson Foundation for Brewing and Distilling. That sounds right. Yeah, there we go. It takes me a minute to warm up after a holiday break, you know, that Wednesday off. Throws it all off. Right in the high. But how was your one day off? I mean, we kind of worked it where we weren't working all week, but how was your week off?

[00:02:11] Zoe Licata: I wouldn't call it a week off, but it was not. It was. It was good. The random bits of off time were good. Yeah. Got to spend it in Northfield, Mass. Got a white Christmas this year. Had a pretty uneventful, negatively, like not, there was no chaos at the family Christmas Eve party this year, which is a good thing. Everyone behaved themselves except for my grandfather who decided he was going to peer pressure everybody into drinking some random store brand cinnamon schnapps, which he's never done before. So that was a new addition this year. But yeah, it was a good time.

[00:02:50] Breeze Galindo: Did you get any Derek White ale?

[00:02:54] Zoe Licata: I personally did not but Lawrence made a point to get several four-packs before the doors opened at Sam Adams downtown tap room because yes they had their Derek White ale can release and there were people lining up hours before the tap room opened. It was yeah it was kind of old school like people were ready for this beer release. They've had it at on draft at the taproom for a couple weeks now But this is like the first specialty cans and they sold out in 26 minutes I think was the final time which they were very much not prepared for So we'll see if they do another release and how that one goes, but people were super excited about these these Derek White ales Why do you think that is big?

[00:03:37] Breeze Galindo: I mean, this is like the dream is still alive craft beer.

[00:03:40] SPEAKER_??: I

[00:03:40] Zoe Licata: I think it had a lot to do with just like the timing was really right, where it's the Celtics are like the hottest team in town now. They're the most recent championship for Boston. All of our other teams are kind of doing really horribly, which we're not used to. So people are latching on even tighter to the Celtics. And Derek White has become like one of the main faces of just like, this is a good guy who connects himself to the community a lot. He's kind of everywhere around here. And everyone kind of comes who's out of town, maybe grew here and like left, they come back for the holidays. So it was like perfect timing for them being back in the city and wanting to have something that kind of represents Boston. Sam Adams, Celtics, it's pretty. as much related to the city as you can get. So yeah, I think that's just was a perfect storm for folks to be like, yeah, we we want to get our hands on this. I mean, it's it's also a good beer, but I think it came down to just like the the optics of all of it. People are really excited about.

[00:04:36] Breeze Galindo: Did you get that Christmas day, W?

[00:04:38] Zoe Licata: I don't think we did, I think we did not.

[00:04:42] Breeze Galindo: I think it lost. If I remember right, I think the Celtics lost.

[00:04:46] Zoe Licata: Yeah.

[00:04:47] Breeze Galindo: It wasn't without Derek White's efforts to bring him back.

[00:04:50] Zoe Licata: No, I think that, yeah, I think we put, they dressed in like red and green. I think that was bad luck, so.

[00:04:57] Breeze Galindo: Speaking of Christmas, did you get any Sully drippings from Santa Sean Sully drippings from Santa?

[00:05:05] Justin Kendall: Yeah. Have you not heard about Sully drippings?

[00:05:08] Breeze Galindo: Apparently that Santa did not make me aware of this celebration IPA that apparently they they save every little bit of celebration.

[00:05:17] Justin Kendall: Yeah, I'm like, you guys are getting that. I'm like, come on, I'm not on that mailing list, please. Well, we weren't on that mailing list either. I'd settle for some Celebration. Sierra Nevada, I mean, I'll happily give you my address. I had many Celebration ales, I did, you know. And I still have, for the record, Sierra Nevada, if any Sierra Nevada listeners back at corporate over there, I still have, I kept Celebration ales from 2017 onward in my fridge. They're still there. I had bottles of Celebration ale in my mom's fridge, but I didn't keep it at home. I'm not keeping that in New York. But I will say, so I do have old school, because I still love those. I miss those bottles. I probably write it in the newsletter every now and then. Not a big fan of the cans. They're fine, but that is a bottled beer for me. So I kept on. I have three bottles of old Celebration Ale still sitting there in the fridge. So Sally Drippin, send them my way.

[00:06:03] Breeze Galindo: You know who's going to raid your fridge or your mom's fridge for that matter?

[00:06:06] Justin Kendall: You can say it out loud. I know, right? That's going to be my...

[00:06:10] Breeze Galindo: My raid is going to be your mom's fridge, apparently.

[00:06:13] Justin Kendall: Returning the favor on her. Yeah, justice is served. I like it. I'll happily share one with you, put it that way. So we'll have a toast. I have two bottles. We can each have a bottle toast of celebration now. There you go.

[00:06:23] Brewbound Podcast: Cute.

[00:06:23] Justin Kendall: Let's do it.

[00:06:24] Breeze Galindo: Yeah. Well, it wouldn't be Christmas without apparently news from the beer industry, and it was an exclusive in the Wall Street Journal, and that is, Jim Cook's got a succession plan that isn't not dying.

[00:06:40] Justin Kendall: Kind of. Is that the headline? I don't know. Kind of, yeah.

[00:06:43] Breeze Galindo: Kind of, yeah. The actual, well, this wasn't the headline, but Jim is going to pass the controlling interest to his wife, Cynthia Fisher, but not anytime soon because he's not retiring. Apparently, it might take an act of death or something to rest control.

[00:07:03] Zoe Licata: His plan could still be not die and then eventually it'll go to her.

[00:07:08] Breeze Galindo: Yeah, this was played up, though, is like a big story. And I guess that it is. And it certainly came out on a day that I think none of us were expecting to see beer news. But here we are. And it's, I guess, Jim 75. And it's time to start talking for real about what the succession plan is.

[00:07:31] Justin Kendall: I mean, again, this is a public statement, this is a publicly traded company, Justin, so this is a real matter of I'm sure maybe the board is nudging Jim to a certain point and being like, hey buddy, you need to plan here, this joke of not retiring isn't going to cut it anymore. So that would be my guess as to why in a very public fashion, it wasn't on an earnings call or an official statement from the brewery. But he owns the Class B shares, he's pretty much the dominant of all of them, right? So it's like, he is still Boston Beer from a shareholder point of view. So as a shareholder, other shareholders involved in the company want to know, hey man, you're 75, what is the plan here? Should we be concerned about another company coming in or somebody, another investor? So for him to say that, it's a specific note to the street and to investors for sure.

[00:08:20] Breeze Galindo: It hasn't been a year without rumors of Boston Beer, apparently looking to sell or maybe testing the waters. And we've sort of made it through all of that without anything really changing. And then we've got a CEO change there. Michael Spillane has taken over. So, you know, he's running the day-to-day operations, but you know, Jim is still very much out there and in front and Zoe and I just saw him at GABF and he's on the, these, the circuit doing all the trade publications. He's on the trade publication circuit, not ours, but you know, we had Sam Caligione, the other Sam.

[00:08:59] Justin Kendall: Exactly. The other part of it. Yeah. I mean, that'd be the other thing is, you know, Sam Caligione is part of the, the company there in terms of the leadership. But I mean, you know, again, this is a financial matter. It's all shares. That would be somebody buying him out, which Sam is not going to be a, I don't, I don't know. I don't know Sam's personal, Caligione's, you know, personal setup there, but that would be quite a buyout if that was to take place. So. Yeah.

[00:09:21] Breeze Galindo: Not betting on that one. No, no, no. Well, other news that we gotta hit, and that is President Jimmy Carter has died. And Jimmy Carter is very notable in craft beer because he legalized home brewing. He signed the bill in 1978 that made it possible. And there is a fantastic video over at the Wall Street Journal talking about his role in craft brewing and the boom. And you have, speaking of Sierra Nevada, Ken Grossman's in the video talking about how he secretly home-brewed in his closet, and it seems to have worked out for him.

[00:09:56] Zoe Licata: Yeah, I think he's alright.

[00:09:57] Breeze Galindo: So far so good.

[00:09:58] Justin Kendall: Yeah, I think that so far, still going. So, you know, listen, send those silly drippings our way. Right from the 1982 home-brewing closet. Yeah, exactly. And Billy Beer, come on, listen. Another part of the Carter family history there in terms of the beer industry. But back in the day, people have cans of that that they probably still have out there somewhere. Rare to have a president to be so associated specifically with the beer industry. I can't think of anybody else. You're going back to Prohibition maybe or something. of the modern era, certainly, to be associated. So a big proponent that enabled the whole industry to grow and thrive. Yeah. Other than what? The Obama beer summit? Right. Yes. And Obama made a beer in the White House, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Right. I forgot about that. That's right. Yeah.

[00:10:48] Breeze Galindo: Well, you can read all about that in the Brewbound newsletter. If you're an insider, you can read the Jim Cook story. You can read our most read stories of the year, our most listened to podcasts, our Brewbound live recaps. They're all going up at Brewbound Award've got more coming later this week. But, you know, I think that we should take some time and turn it over to Sean for the 2024 Brewbound Week in Beer Awards.

[00:11:14] Justin Kendall: I mean, we have to find with last week of 2024 here we are recording. So I think we have to commemorate the year and give out some pretty active year. I don't know. Looking back, I mean, there were more active years in the 2020s, I guess, in terms of deals and, you know, certainly things were sold and things like that. But I was going with there's a few things here. Not quizzing you to start here, but rank this with Zoey, this year kind of in your tenure here, maybe at Brewbound.

[00:11:39] Zoe Licata: Yeah, this was probably, last year was definitely I feel like the craziest year, because last year was like, we had so much leadership change and a lot going on there. So this year felt A little more ease, but there was a lot especially like locally a lot of massachusetts moves That was a big that was honestly my big takeaway looking back on the headlines my massachusetts had a big year There was a lot of murders happening around here, which yeah, that was just on its own a lot to keep up with so Yeah, massachusetts making the headlines.

[00:12:10] Breeze Galindo: Yeah, justin. How about you? It's a tough one because it's like the till rate going back to the well deal like with molson cores was I guess sort of surprising, just in the fact that you already have so much. What are you doing? How much is enough, man?

[00:12:29] Justin Kendall: How much is enough?

[00:12:30] Breeze Galindo: Yeah. And just them being in the headlines. And I always lean toward deal activity as sort of my, it's one of my interests in the industry. But I don't know. I mean, there's just so much going on. Like Zoe said, it almost rivaled last year. it was such a tough year too.

[00:12:52] Justin Kendall: Yeah. That was the narrative I think of the year. Yeah.

[00:12:55] Breeze Galindo: Yeah. Closings tick up and you know, you, they're not necessarily shock closings or anything like that, but just to see maybe like a weathered souls close was, And just how hard it is to be in this business and yet have such an impactful short time. The Black is Beautiful beer came out and it was such a sensation, but then on the other end, it's... The company's no more.

[00:13:29] Justin Kendall: Yeah. Yeah. It's great, it's a short-term thing, but in the end, the economics... Definitely been a theme of the year. Well, let's start off here, you know, your Boston Beer you had this year. Zoe, anything stand out for you in memory? It doesn't have to be a new beer, it could be an old beer. What do you got on this one?

[00:13:45] Zoe Licata: I'm gonna cheat a little bit. Oh, how very Zoe, all right. This is cheating already.

[00:13:52] Justin Kendall: I don't know about this.

[00:13:53] Zoe Licata: Because technically it's still considered to be part of the beer segment, beer category.

[00:13:59] Justin Kendall: Okay.

[00:14:00] Zoe Licata: But it's a cider.

[00:14:01] Justin Kendall: Oh, that's fine.

[00:14:02] Zoe Licata: A bottled cider. I had this Petnat, which I don't know if that's exactly how you pronounce it. That's what I've been calling it. P-A-T-N-A-T. Cider made with Franklin apples from Eden Ciders. They are in Vermont, like way up basically Canada. And it was one of the most delicious things I've had. It's like a very slightly sparkling hard cider, very dry. It was delicious and really cool to try. I've been starting this year making a point of trying ciders that aren't as a lot of the ones I've drank before, like a down yeast or a shilling where they're typical, like really sweet canned things. I wanted to try some of the other variety that hard cider has out there. And that one was so good. So good.

[00:14:48] Justin Kendall: All right. Stood out. Okay. Justin, how about from your basement fridge there? What do we got? I've got three that stood out to me.

[00:14:55] Breeze Galindo: All right. Velvet Glow from Russian River. It's just one of those beers that the first time I had it, you kind of fall in love with it. And I think that the first time was with Jess at CCBA. We were doing the podcast. Yeah, definitely a beer that we kind of took to there. And then the others, Wildness from Alaskan Brewing. It's been the lager renaissance, and it was just one that kind of hit the spot. Beautiful packaging, just really stands out. Shocked that it's at my grocery store here in Grimes, Iowa, but here we are. All right. non-alcoholic Deschutes Fresh Squeezed. It's just so juicy. That is good. Yeah, that is a good beer. I believe I sent you a can.

[00:15:45] Justin Kendall: Yeah, exactly. I think I had you to thank for that because it's not on our shelves yet. Yeah.

[00:15:50] Breeze Galindo: So those are the beers that stood out to me. I'm sure there were others, but that's kind of my short list.

[00:15:56] Justin Kendall: Okay, fair enough. Nice array, nice array. I'm way more boring than you guys, so I'm going to, I don't, I just like, I'm actually on brand for, I like stick with the main SKUs. I'm like Kane Overhead, which is their double IPA, it's still a fantastic beer. I'm like, I drink it all the time, but I'm like, it's just, you know, it just works. I don't need to drink 20 more double IPA. It's like, they made the, it's good. I'm fine, I'm happy with it. You know, I'm just going to stick with that theme, which I think is also part of the year here in 2024, so. That's smart.

[00:16:26] Zoe Licata: You probably are consuming way less awful things that way, too.

[00:16:31] Justin Kendall: Zoe, you've nailed it on the head. That's exactly my mantra going forward in beer. Consume less beer I don't like. Make your alcohol count. Justin and Zoe both would agree to that statement. All right, up next, favorite person from New Jersey. How'd that get in there? What? Oh, that's a brew bun. Moser.

[00:16:49] Breeze Galindo: That's a loaded question.

[00:16:50] Justin Kendall: We all know it's just his mom anyway, so that's fine. I think she wins the award. You get a pineapple wall, maybe we'll talk. Maybe we'll talk, fair enough. Most surprising headline from 2024. I'll give you some options, but I didn't do as best I could in the time I had to prep this. We had Drizzly closing, we had Molson Coors essentially exiting the craft business, Tilray kept buying breweries, Craft Beer not really working for Monster, Bud Light cannot stop the bleeding after we're way past the year-over-year comps, and that bleeding has not stopped, Anchor actually has a future, and Kroger Albertsons fell apart. There are probably a few more out there, but anything else I'm forgetting, please add it.

[00:17:31] Zoe Licata: Those are all good ones. Drizzly was pretty big. I remember that being like, oh, whoa, they're just stopping. That was kind of wild. And people are really interested in that because that was like one of our most listened to podcasts. He was talking about that closing and just like the state of e-commerce. I would also throw in Naomi Neville leaving Allagash. That was like, I don't know if it was shocking, but it was just like, oh no.

[00:18:01] Justin Kendall: Departure of the year.

[00:18:03] Zoe Licata: Yeah, great beer person. So yeah, that one was earlier in the year, but a little shocker.

[00:18:10] Justin Kendall: All right, Justin, anything on your mind out of those that didn't, you know, you weren't really, you know, I mean, Kroger Albertson's like was a long year saga and who knows when you have that. Maybe not that one. Yeah. Anything else that kind of took you as like, oh, huh.

[00:18:21] Breeze Galindo: Ones that stuck out to me that you didn't mention were Gallo acquiring Montucky Cold Snacks, Asahi acquiring Octopi. That's my list for later. That one was a little more obvious just because of just knowing the Japanese interest in getting growing capacity. But the Gallo thing, it kind of was more of a surprise that they would get this singular lager brand that, yeah. So I thought that that one kind of jumped out. You know, when you think about the Tilray stuff, it is just so sort of strange. And then just the fire cell that has been going on with craft breweries that were acquired by the major strategics. So that one is another one. But having sat through several Molson Coors distributor meetings over the last few years, I can tell you that other than like Blue Moon, the craft talk is kind of like a bathroom break for the distributors.

[00:19:29] Justin Kendall: Yeah, yeah, I mean it's not surprising on one hand of like all right I'm but it is to just see like all right like you're done But that's like we're not even holding on to anything like a B still has brands and it's still you know Not just with their option with the sharing from the rooftops But they have a presence and they've just pared it down and you know like Molson just like blue moon and bust man that's in the line of kugels which also had a troubles this year, you know, had some issues at Molson Coors as well internally. So shutting down the, you know, the OG facility there. So yeah, that was Molson Coors really just, you know, focus is a big word to hear a lot. And that is the definition of focus, my friend. So that is, you know, the big one there. I will say it also it's just nice that anchor actually does every like the biggest like what's gonna happen with this thing like it lives on I will say so it was I can't say was not expecting a basically like Greek yogurt What's gonna happen with this thing yeah, oh the yogurt buys gonna buy a yogurt guys gonna buy it yeah, yeah on that point though it's one that it was like

[00:20:33] Breeze Galindo: Whoa, you know, this high, like, you know, did not see this coming. And then just radio silence.

[00:20:42] Justin Kendall: Yeah. That was the middle of the year. I'm like, Oh, we've heard anything since I'm like, I've not seen an update on this, this whole, on anything, a plan or anything else, 2025 or employees or, you know, it's not been without.

[00:20:54] Breeze Galindo: folks in the industry like us trying because we've been trying you know but it may not be any news it's you know yeah it's like are they working in silence is you know what what is going on here because we are what i can't even remember what month that happened in it was like may yeah yeah yeah

[00:21:13] Justin Kendall: Yeah, so we'll see. It'll be a 2025 story to watch for sure. Let's go to the Big Beer Marketing Award slash kind of whatever happened to these. As I'm going back through this, we had the butt light genie who, you know, that's not Dilly Dilly. This has not been any or any of their, you know, name your favorite butt light campaign. This came Super Bowl and around the March Madness last year. I can't recall seeing an update on any of those throughout the rest of the year. Even fall football was really not present at all, except for maybe re-running those old ads, but that kind of Fell flat, I think. I don't know. Do you guys have a take on that?

[00:21:53] Zoe Licata: I don't think it would I mean now they're all about Shane Gillis, right? So that's I think it's great.

[00:21:59] Justin Kendall: I love the ads I mean, I'm not saying it was a great idea that I was like, oh, this is it but it's just interesting to see such a Bud Light traditionally, you know again in terms of marketing there, you know, the number one brand out there generally and this was a

[00:22:10] Breeze Galindo: Did the genie show up at like the UFC fights?

[00:22:13] Justin Kendall: That's what I mean, yeah. The guy wasn't out there that much, whoever got cast in that was like, yes, rule of a lifetime. And I don't think that's going to really be the way it works out, so. Luke Wilson Miller Lite ads still are kind of out there. I would have liked to have seen some more creative as the year went on. I feel like I just saw a lot of the same ads on that one, but I think that'll probably carry over in 25. I'm kind of curious to see if they maintain that.

[00:22:37] Breeze Galindo: Well, they did bring back Taste Great Less filling, right?

[00:22:40] Justin Kendall: Yeah, I mean, that's kind of been there. Yeah, that would just seem like it would be a bigger thing I would see than it actually turned out to be. And then the Coors Light Train, I'm seeing a lot of, maybe it's working for them, I don't know if it is or it isn't, but I think their previous marketing was a lot better with that brand, and I think this has not been, and the numbers are not really bearing out in sales either. This feels like a dud to me. But I know you guys like the Super Bowl ad, I don't know, maybe I'm being too hard on it.

[00:23:06] Zoe Licata: It just seems like everything's kind of, everyone's going back to what they were used to do, like trying to go old school.

[00:23:14] Justin Kendall: Course I trained, but still it tastes great.

[00:23:16] Zoe Licata: Yeah, exactly. I don't know if it's really, I understand why they're doing it, especially cause like nostalgia is like a huge thing across like all CBG marketing is like, we got to do some nostalgia, but it's just seems to be falling kind of flat with beer folks and I don't know. Nothing has really excited me lately in Beer Awards. I feel like there must have been, I'm definitely forgetting an ad because I remember being really into one of the Super Bowl ads this year and I can't remember for the life of me what it was.

[00:23:46] Justin Kendall: You know, there's a Ted Lasso McUltra thing with, you know, there's, I mean, yeah.

[00:23:50] Breeze Galindo: So earned media wise, and this isn't even marketing, like athletic is killing it. Like they have probably received more earned media this year than anyone I've seen. PR agency needs an award. Yeah. I don't know how legit this is, but the splitting the G, the Guinness.

[00:24:10] Justin Kendall: Yeah. Yeah. This is a dark horse. Yeah. You know what? That's a great point, Justin. That's exactly the, yeah. I mean, I know it's more recent in the year, but still organic, you know, actually showing up in sales, you know, like legitimately, like this isn't just like a phenomenon. I'm like, no, this is actually moving products. you know, organic to what, you know, Guinness is like, it just checks a lot of boxes that yeah, just I'm not sure exactly where social media, right.

[00:24:36] Zoe Licata: So it's, I mean, yeah, I have never craved a Guinness more than like these past few months because people are just constantly talking about it.

[00:24:44] Breeze Galindo: I'm like, oh, Guinness sounds really good right now. If I'm a bar owner in the US right now, I am

[00:24:51] Justin Kendall: doing everything I can to stock those glasses and make this a thing. By the way, speaking of marketing, Oh, of course. Nods to Iowa State.

[00:25:09] Brewbound Podcast: Subtle transition.

[00:25:09] Justin Kendall: We want to give a shout out to the Pop-Tart Bowl champion. That's right.

[00:25:13] Breeze Galindo: That is Iowa State. Was there a better use of marketing budget this year than the Pop-Tarts Bowl?

[00:25:19] Zoe Licata: I don't think so. That was pretty good.

[00:25:22] Breeze Galindo: I'm so glad the Cyclones won that bowl because they're just getting the free ride.

[00:25:27] Justin Kendall: Along for the ride, man.

[00:25:28] Breeze Galindo: Yeah, exactly. I remember so much more about that game than maybe any game this season, other than beating Iowa by a field goal at the end. But other than that, like it was wild berry was a menace frosted strawberry resurrected the toaster at the end, you know, just R.I.P. cinnamon roll, like, you know, the players getting to eat the cinnamon roll.

[00:25:58] Zoe Licata: I did not watch a single minute of that game and I could tell you so much that happened beyond the football itself because it was just all over the internet.

[00:26:09] Justin Kendall: Good luck college football playoffs. Yeah. Topping that. Yeah. I don't think so, buddy. But anyway, no, good. Excellent point. Excellent point. All right. Any most underrated trend or story this year that your things are things are happening that you're kind of surprised is not bigger than maybe it is or, you know, any developments going on that. I can just start and throw out one. You can please do. This might be bigger if we spend too much time on this one. In the end here, it wasn't American big beer that came for Kraft, it was Japanese big beer. This is something that's not talked about in terms of, not that it's a big deal, but it is considerable in the sense of, you mentioned the Asahi buying Atapai, and maybe there's more there, Justin. That's a lot of capacity to have. whether they want to grow things more. You have Stone and Sapporo now fully integrated. Sapporo has big plans, more for Sapporo than for Stone, but in terms of increasing their presence. You've got Kieran owning New Belgium and Bells, and you also have Suntory with the new RTD North America business specifically launched at this market, so we'll see that's more in the liquor space. That's pretty, that's pretty, you know, if you're talking about big beer, I'm like, AB still has a few brands and Molson Coors just reject. And you have Monster and, you know, Tilray is its own company. You know, like, this is what craft beer, you know, that has been, if you're going to look back five or six years on this, it's like, well, nobody had that on their list of like, oh yeah, Japan's going to come in and take a big, big presence in the beer business.

[00:27:40] Zoe Licata: I would say something that's underrated, and it might be just more with consumers underrated, but just what Jax Abbey has been up to and what they've done with their business. Yeah, we talked about they had multiple acquisitions this year. They acquired Wormtown, they acquired Nightshift, but I feel like people still aren't fully appreciating like how they are doing what they're doing. I mean they're a lager focused craft brewery and they're also doing contract like it's just it seems like we should be talking more about them because it's there's a lot going on there and that might be local bias but it's just there's there's something there that we haven't quite figured out of how they're fully able to do what they're doing with the current state of craft beer.

[00:28:25] Justin Kendall: Go with that one. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I think there's more to come next year for sure, but they probably don't even exactly have it. Throw in some contract, other contract business, you know, but they've stepped up, you know, so for sure to be that we're going to be the one that's going to survive out of these things. Justin, anything else on your radar?

[00:28:40] Breeze Galindo: I think just the Gallo thing, you know, what their plans are within beer and where it goes from here, because it's been, also kind of quiet on that front. So we'll see where it goes.

[00:28:52] Justin Kendall: Yeah, it's like that and like garage beer, these two kind of brands out there that like, you know, that lager, that fun lager space that you know, is out there. So it's, will that become more of a thing? So but uh, all right, my favorite rando store of the year was going to be Cerveza Cristal. Just love that, love that Star Wars. I was just going back through the newsletters just to hear Justin and Zoe'm like, oh yeah, that was fun. That's great. Cerveza Cristal. All right, give me a reason for optimism and craft beer, Zoe, 2025. What are you optimistic about?

[00:29:20] Zoe Licata: People lined up in the cold to get a Derek White Ale.

[00:29:25] Justin Kendall: I love it.

[00:29:25] Zoe Licata: That's crazy.

[00:29:27] Justin Kendall: Yeah. All right. That's good. I like it. Nice and recent. Justin, anything for reason for optimism?

[00:29:31] Breeze Galindo: I think my reason for optimism is that crappers actually seem focused, or at least they're talking the talk at this point. And that's something that's needed to happen for a long time. And if they can actually focus and dial in their portfolios and their marketing, maybe it will start to pay off with the consumer. And I think the other part would be, there are spaces that have already shown up like Talea and these unique spaces that speak to different audiences that hopefully will pay dividends down the road.

[00:30:12] Justin Kendall: OK. Well, I'm taking the Jess cursing award here, but mine was very similar to Justin. Less stupid shit going on. So I just feel like- That's a better way of putting it. Yeah. When I go to a brewery now, there's less of this crazy, oh, we're doing this, you know. There's still some of it out there, certainly, but it is nowhere near the dominant thing in the craft beer world, and it's the back-to-back fundamentals. But yeah, Justin, same thing along those lines. All right, we're going to do a quick round, really quick here, some 2025 predictions. Knock them off real fast. Will Justin stay up past 10 o'clock at Brewbound Live next year? No. No, Justin, did you do that already or no? No, I don't think so. No? What time? It's a time change. It's a time change, yeah. Do you live in Iowa?

[00:30:55] Breeze Galindo: 9.45 or something. No, like, I was out late.

[00:30:58] Zoe Licata: Shay J night, I feel like you might have hit 10 p.m. Yeah.

[00:31:02] Breeze Galindo: All right, okay. I hit 11 or something. Oh, all right, well, all right, no. Might have been 11.30 when I left, but anyway, we were all there late except for Jess.

[00:31:11] Justin Kendall: All right, your forecast for the below premium segment in 2025, still gonna remain hot or gonna start to cool?

[00:31:19] Zoe Licata: Yeah.

[00:31:20] Justin Kendall: That's not- Yes, it will remain hot.

[00:31:24] Zoe Licata: But I'm just picturing the frat bros will continue to frat bro.

[00:31:28] Justin Kendall: Yeah, well, Bush Light falls in this category. Yeah, Bush Light's gonna- Yeah. steer that ship. As an Iowan, I can tell you. O'Reilly That's what I mean. Yeah, exactly. I think there's still going to be more juice left to squeeze in that one. The non-ALC beer narrative, stay hot in 2025, cool a little bit. The year-over-year comps coming down. A lot more entries coming in, obviously. The big beer is starting to make a bigger play for this. What is your forecast for 2025 and non-ALC, Zoe?

[00:31:54] Zoe Licata: I think still hot, because we're still going to see a bunch of new ones next year coming out, especially, like you said, the big ones, like, make a little Ultra Zeros coming out. So I think 2026 might be when we start to see it a bit more tepid.

[00:32:06] Breeze Galindo: Level out a little bit. All right, Justin? Yeah, I think it'll still stay hot. Maybe not the, you know, high 40% or whatever. 50%, 60% growth or whatever, or 30% for the segment. But yeah, I think that it stays hot. I got to say, I am impressed with the, the amount of pop press that athletic has garnered this year. And yeah, I think that we'll see what January brings, but yeah.

[00:32:36] Justin Kendall: Yeah. But it's beyond that now. It's not even, that's not even the main narrative that, which I think is more telling of anything else that it used to be, that used to be it. And now done now it's like, it's barely, you know,

[00:32:47] Breeze Galindo: I think they're making a smart play too by calling it athletic January where they're trying to own the month.

[00:32:53] Justin Kendall: No, is that right? Okay. That's the new, the new push. All right. We'll see. But, uh, yeah, yeah. Peroni zero, zero out there, which has been, you know, stated a priority, certainly at, at Molson. Corona non-alc, which I think is, I would, I look back at this, there was a, uh, not, there's the non-zero, they don't call it non-alcoholic internationally, but it was the official non-alc beer of the Olympics this year. Not that I saw any of it, but I was like, oh, they spent a little money on it so that I could see them maybe investing more in that. at Corona as well to maybe help that out as a brand. And you just mentioned MakeUltraZero, which really, we haven't seen much ... I haven't seen any of it. But I mean, they made the plans are announced, and I could see that becoming a thing.

[00:33:30] Zoe Licata: Lapera. Give it like two more weeks, and it will probably be everywhere. O'Reilly.

[00:33:33] Justin Kendall: That's what I was going to say. Right, exactly. Right, right. All right. Will Sazerac and Tilray keep buying in 2025? Zoe? Jones-Timoney. Will GABF attendance be up or down in 2025? We have about 40,000 people this year. What do you think ahead for GABF? All right, like the optimism, all right. Will BA-defined craft beer volume, when will it increase again? Obviously Bart's not projecting a growth for 2025, and now he's the head of the BA, so I'm gonna trust Bart even more on that. Got a target year for when Bart will be declaring this year, BA-defined craft, increased volume for the first time in blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Give me a year.

[00:34:18] Breeze Galindo: 2027.

[00:34:19] Zoe Licata: I was gonna say 2027 as well.

[00:34:21] Breeze Galindo: All right, maybe there will be something that turns the tide That's the thing. There's always something that like hazy IPA sort of turned the tide, you know, so You never know that that next innovation might hit.

[00:34:36] Justin Kendall: Yeah. Well, plus, I think, you know, there's the attrition levels out and at some point you have a nice base and at that point you can begin to build again. So I would be inclined to believe you. All right. Final question. Will Zoe send me a text to say hello on one of her multiple trips to New York City in 2025?

[00:34:50] Zoe Licata: I knew this was coming.

[00:34:55] Justin Kendall: Uh-huh. Keep our tradition going, Zoe. It's all right. You know, listen.

[00:34:58] Zoe Licata: I'm going to do it out of spite now, just so it's not a tradition.

[00:35:01] Justin Kendall: That's what I'm not really prompting here. This is my little, you know, Jersey poke in the side there. So yeah.

[00:35:07] Zoe Licata: It'll happen this year.

[00:35:08] Justin Kendall: All right. All right. Prediction, yes. Justin's shaking his head no, but that's fine. No, I'm kidding. All right, that wraps out our awards segment for 2024. It's always fun to do it with both of you. Jess, we miss you, but I feel like I answered for both of us in our jersey representation. So I hope you're enjoying your drive back to New England, even though you're probably not.

[00:35:29] Breeze Galindo: All right. Well, thanks for doing that, Sean. Thanks for hopping on in place of Jess. And we should get to our featured interviews with Breeze Galindo and Garrett Oliver.

[00:35:41] Zoe Licata: The Michael James Jackson Foundation has been helping folks enter the BevElk industry, whether it's brewing or distilling. And we were so excited to give them our Cause of the Year Award this year. So to chat to us about MJF and all they're up to is Director of Operations, Breeze Galindo. Welcome, Breeze. Hi, thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Yeah, thanks for being here. We talk about MJF a lot at Brewbound, but for those who don't know, give us the quick elevator pitch. What is MJF all about?

[00:36:14] Brewbound Award: The Michael James Jackson Foundation for Brewing and Distilling is a nonprofit organization that benefits People of Color. and brewing and distilling. So just in short, we offer scholarships to People of Color to help their technical skills. Along with that, we have mentorships available. We try to create more of a networking platform for them as well. If they need assistance, giving them that opportunity for them to reach out if they need any assistance moving forward. So for us, it's really important to, yes, offer the scholarships, but at the same time, it's not just over after their program is over. We want to continue having contact with them, continue building that relationship with them to continue their career. Because we've, we've realized early on that the support isn't just, the support doesn't just stop at the education. The support continues afterwards with the mentorship or just answering an email where they're having any sort of challenges with leading or having to change jobs or having to move. It's we realize that the responsibility goes beyond the scholarship. And so we've been we've been adapting, if not evolving, to ensure that they get the support that they need in every aspect of their career as they're moving on and brewing and distilling. So, yeah.

[00:37:32] Zoe Licata: I remember one of my first stories at Brewbound Podcast all, like three years ago, was one of the first rounds of scholarships. And at the time I had talked to Garrett Oliver, who helped create this foundation, and he had mentioned, you know, all the hurdles that get into just accessing education. So first of all, that was huge. You have to have the finances to do that. You sometimes have to have the connections to do that. What are some of those challenges that people might not think about of just that first step before even, as you were just mentioning, all the things after education?

[00:38:07] Brewbound Award: In order to get into the industry, you have to know somebody. It's really not about how much you know. It's about who you know. It's about being comfortable, walking into a tap room and then befriending the front of house and then befriending the brewers who have beers at the tap room. And it goes on and on and on. It's being able to have the experience to start as a brewer or even a shift brewer. You're right. It's completely out of our hands in terms of how much we can afford. Also, let's put it this way. If you think about representation, walk into a room where you feel like you're the only one there that looks like you, there's something that hits you that's almost like feeling intimidated or just feeling like you don't fit in. So if that's the case and you're supposed to kind of network your way in, how can that even happen when you don't really even see other people who look like you? And so with the MJF, it's really important for us to, one, we understand it because we've been through it, Like we have completely have been through it. I've been through it. I know Garrett's experienced it. We have board members have also experienced the same thing. And that's what's important is having a team or having a board to not only understand that, but also having gone through it. So that way we completely have that same, that same like level ground, that same common ground where we can understand their stories and also empathize and sympathize because yeah, we're all in it too. The challenges just don't stop at trying to get the education for it. It's more about feeling included or feeling seen or feeling represented. And those challenges do fall in the industry more than not. So with us being able to establish that program or establish that type of support for our awardees, it really means a lot to us because the stories that come through when we have our application process, it's not only like a very emotional, touching story, but it's very, it's, it's kind of like, I know exactly how he feels, or I know exactly how she feels. And that type of connection that we have in these interviews is, man, it's something that I wouldn't change for the world. And it's something that I always like, whenever I talk to donors, I always say like, man, I wish you could just be like a fly on the wall in these interviews, because to really see these awardees or these applicants have this vulnerability about them. because they feel comfortable showing this vulnerability with us in the interview process, because they know that we've also, that we understand where they're coming from, to see that vulnerability come out and that authenticity of emotions and also passion that they have. is very beautiful.

[00:40:47] Zoe Licata: Particularly when you're going into an environment where you feel like you're kind of the odd one out there, you have to put up these walls sometimes. You feel like you have to be overconfident or show that you are meant to be there. And for you to provide that space where you can be that vulnerable and say, I'm still figuring this out and I would love some help and guidance here is so helpful for people.

[00:41:11] Brewbound Award: even myself, it's, it's even, it's, it was always challenging for me to reach out for help for mentorship because it was always that fear of like, Oh, then that means they're going to know that I don't know anything. So I understand what that feels like. And, and that pressure of like having to work twice as hard, having to work double the hours just to be seen as an equal is extremely exhausting. So because I understand that, and because I've been through those feelings, there's a certain push that you have to offer these applicants and these awardees where it's like, hey, believe me, I've been there, so it's okay. You have to be shy about it. Don't say sorry, don't apologize for asking for help. Having to say that, it's like, don't apologize for having to ask for help. And also another thing that we say often is, one thing we say often is due to the fact that when they come in interviewing, And we asked them, why do you feel like you deserve this award? Sometimes like the awardees would say, I don't think I do. I think it's best that you give it to somebody else. I just wanted to try. And when they say that and they're saying it to you and it just hits you. I go into automatic cheerleading mode. Having to look them right in the face of the screen, it's like, hey, you stop that, okay? The reason why you're here is because we love your application, you have so much potential, and this is where you belong, so don't say that. Now tell us again, why do you deserve this scholarship? And then kind of getting that, them getting hyped like that or them getting that kind of energy gives them the confidence to then continue on with the interview process.

[00:42:51] Zoe Licata: You have awarded more than 50 scholarships out there. You're helping more than that with types of folks. How are you managing working with that many people in that network? How has MJF had to grow to support and create more support as it has evolved as it has? Well, one, lots of coffee.

[00:43:12] Brewbound Award: Lots and lots of coffee. So Garrett being the president and myself being the director of operations, I've never worked with Garrett Oliver before the foundation. And being a board member for the first three and a half years was great seeing him do it, but it was like just Garrett. And then when I was offered the position of director of operations, I got to step behind the curtain And then realizing, oh my God, Garrett, you do so much. There's so much that you're doing. And Garrett understanding like more needs to be done because we're evolving. Me having the responsibilities of continuing that mission forward and then having to not only reach out to the board members, but reaching out to our network outside of the board as well. So one of the things that's extremely important as a board member and someone who's in my role is having to not only create relationships in the industry, whether it's with head brewers or brew masters or brewery owners, having to create those relationships and create that connection that it's not only authentic, but it continues growing and growing and growing. Because once you have that relationship, you can go ahead and ask for that assistance. Hey, I'm just making up names here. So this is not, I don't know. Hey, Clara, like, There's an awardee here who really needs an internship but only lives in your area. Do you have anything available? So, and having those connections or that networking, those networks that we have outside of the board really helps us continue that growth with our awardees. Being able to keep tabs on 51 awardees is extremely challenging because it's only 11 board members, right? So having to, there's like a check-in initiative that we're initiating where each board member is given three to four awardees. And they have about a six-week timeline to be able to reach out to them. And we ask them three to five questions, very short. One, how are you? Two, how was your program? Three, is there anything that you, any assistance that you need for right now, mentorship, guidance, any of that? And then four, do you have any questions for us? So very simple. But what that also allows us is it allows us to not only touch base with them again, but also give us a different understanding of like, okay, so it's not just a scholarship that they needed. They needed something else, but they were never able to ask for it because they didn't know how. So this check-in gave them the opportunity to be able to ask for that assistance or ask that question. So the check-in initiative is extremely important for us to initiate in the coming year because we want that to grow. Because the network that we're offering them, we have to now apply a network for them to be able to reach out to each other. And whatever that is, it's like if there's an event happening and we know there are enough awardees there, then we'll have like a meet, like a meetup and being able to, for them to meet each other as well. There's so much more that needs to happen as we're evolving because we're going to have more awardees coming up. So now we have to figure out how can we have them keep in touch where they can reach out to each other? At the same time, how can we awardees, Garrett and myself, have that same communication and connection with our awardees? It has to be intentional and it has to be organic. It has to be meaningful because if not, then it's just like, oh yeah, you got an award what year again? Oh right, I remember. Like that can't happen with us. If not, then we're losing the focus of what our purpose is. Our intention is to continue to maintain those relationships authentically so they continue to feel the support along the way instead of like, I just got a scholarship. That's it. Like, it's just, I mean, it was helpful, but like, I haven't heard from them since.

[00:46:57] Zoe Licata: For anyone who is listening to this conversation, really excited about it, it's getting them energized of how they can help. What should they do or where can they go to help support MJF?

[00:47:08] Brewbound Award: Well, to see any up-to-date posts or information about the MJF, you can go to our Instagram. uh the mjf and on there you'll see our awardees our board members information about our board members and our awardees uh any information of what our when our next scholarship round is coming up and we have one coming up in a little bit in the next couple of weeks to be able to let to have another scholarship round going through so that's going to be really exciting any other updates from um where we're going to be at festivals or CBC. So I feel like our Instagram is the best bet to get any sort of information up to date. And of course, our website, mjf.org, where you can get information about the mission. If you would like to donate, there's also a link there. And yeah, that's the two main areas where we have everything that you need to know about us and being able to reach out as well.

[00:48:03] Zoe Licata: And Breeze, we can't have you on without giving you an opportunity to plug what you have going on as well with your own brewery. What is the latest status with Mi Luna?

[00:48:12] Brewbound Award: Mi Luna Brewing is a brewery that I launched. It's my brewery that I launched in January, and I just released my first beer called La Primera, and it goes along with the Echa Le Ganas project, which is a a project where I get to brew a beer with different breweries who align with the mission and bodies of Minuna and being able to not only to not only raise money through the events that I create but at the same time being able to meet more people in the community. So my belief is that community will be the main source of building out Minuna because of community will be not only a part of Mi Luna, but also be able to embrace and celebrate the culture of Mi Luna and the community and the authenticity. So I just had my first fundraising event last Friday, where the goal was to raise $7,000. I raised $7,500. And that was really exciting. And we're going to just keep moving along with more events and being able to get to know more people in the communities out here in New York. and to talk about the beer and also what Mignon is about. So that's where I'm at right now. It's exciting.

[00:49:20] Zoe Licata: That's super exciting. And congratulations on that. That's huge. Starting a brewery is not easy at all. That's quite an understatement.

[00:49:30] Brewbound Award: Lots of caffeine and lots of crying, just like minimal crying, just very little bit of crying from the exhaustion. But yeah, it's so worth it. But yeah, that's where I am right now. And it's really exciting and scary at the same time.

[00:49:42] SPEAKER_??: Yeah.

[00:49:43] Zoe Licata: Well, we can't wait to see what happens with your brewery and excited to see the next round of scholarship recipients from MJF. Congrats again on being cause of the year. And we're excited for the future. Thank you so much.

[00:49:56] Brewbound Award: I appreciate your time. And what an honor for BrewBounds. It's pretty cool. Thank you.

[00:50:04] Zoe Licata: Well, many folks are looking into various spaces outside of beer for their next innovation. Brooklyn Brewery brewmaster Garrett Oliver is going old school, 5,000 years ago old school, and making sure you can still make new things in beer. And so that is why our new product of the year is going to be Brooklyn Brewery's Fonio Rising. It's the latest release from Brooklyn Brewery that is using this Fonio. It is a climate resistant super grain and it is bringing new, fun, exciting things to beer. So here to talk about it is Garrett Oliver himself. Welcome, Garrett.

[00:50:42] Brooklyn Brewery: Hi, how are you? This is awesome.

[00:50:44] Zoe Licata: Good. Yeah, this is really exciting. I first heard about Fonio through, I think, some folks at Whole Foods who were bringing up, like, this is really cool. Like, the people are doing things that are speaking to sustainability and also speaking to connecting with, you know, the roots of beer itself, which is in Africa and the origins of beer that we tend not to think about. We think of it as very European based. And so there's a lot of really interesting dynamics going on here with Fonio. Give us the spiel. What is this? What is Fonio?

[00:51:23] Brooklyn Brewery: Well, I think you can kind of think of it this way. If you go to an American or European supermarket and you buy a banana, You're going to get one kind of banana. It's called the Cavendish. In the old days it was the Gros Michel and then the Gros Michel got a disease and we ended up with the Cavendish, the one banana. If you go to a market in Sao Paulo, Brazil, you will see 40 or 50 kinds of bananas. And that's kind of the way we've been living our lives in the brewing world when it comes to grain. There are many, many, many grains, hundreds, thousands of grains out there in the world, and most of us know maybe 10. And so when the chef, the Senegalese chef Pierre Thiem told me at Questlove's house, believe it or not, at a party at Questlove's house, told me about Fonio and told me that it had grown for 5,000 years in Western Africa. It grew into the hell where there was almost no rain and it required no fertilizer, no pesticide, no fungicide, no insecticide, no tilling, no irrigation, nothing and would reliably grow a crop despite it might be raining only three or four times in the year, I did not think this could possibly be true. And then I looked it up and I watched his TED talk and it turns out that it is true. And in that part of Africa, there's 700,000 tons a year produced of Fonio. But one of the reasons why we haven't heard of it up until about now, and people like Whole Foods have been big supporters, is that up until now it's required a lot of manual labor. to separate that seed away from its husk and then to rinse away any sand that might be in it, etc. What we would think of as modern grain milling and cleaning, etc. had not been applied to this ancient grain because it was just a local foodstuff. Now, in this project, we're seeing what a wonderful grain Fogno is for brewing. And it's been used for brewing for thousands of years, but we're just not familiar with it. So when fermented, and we usually use it at 15 or 20%, as is the case for Fonio Rising Pale Ale, it gives you this kind of Gewürztraminer, lychee fruit, tropical, Sauvignon Blanc, slightly wine aromatic, that people just go nuts for. And we're all talking about thiols and all these flavors that we want to get out of our hop signatures or our fermentation signatures in beer. And it turns out that Fonio Rising able to give us wonderful, wonderful flavors. And at the same time, we're using a grain that doesn't use all this nitrate fertilizer and doesn't need all of these chemicals. On top of that, not only are we resisting climate change, but many scientists believe that supporting grains like this are going to help slow not only climate change, but the desertification of the Sahara. So the Sahara is moving south, and by planting along that edge, we're going to be able to help stop it and support thousands of smallhold African farmers at the same time. So Fonio kind of sounds too good to be true, but I know

[00:54:44] Zoe Licata: But I will encourage people to look it up, do your own reading, and you will come to the conclusion that this actually is a super grain.

[00:55:02] Brooklyn Brewery: And you're like, well, why didn't anybody tell us about us? It's like, well, you have companies that are out there feeding the whole country and they have a way of doing things and they have these six or eight grains that they're going to use. But these are not the only things that are available. And then when it turned out, the thing is, if Fonio didn't taste good in beer, it kind of wouldn't matter, right? It's like, it could be a super grain, so to speak, but it has to taste good. The fact of the matter is, though, that beer made with Fonio, to me, tastes better than beer made without Fonio. That's the important part. It actually adds wonderful flavors that we like. So in the case of our Fogno Pale Ale, we're able to use about half the hops that you might normally expect to get that intensity of fruity kind of flavor and aroma, even though our yeast strain is not all that fruity in the first place. And as a result, we can have a really sort of normal price for things and be able to bring people a really delicious beer with an ingredient that they can really feel good about and support.

[00:56:09] Zoe Licata: What has it been like? You've done a few beers now with this, just experimenting with that. And what is it? I mean, that has to be exciting, the opportunities of just a whole new resource to use, right?

[00:56:23] Brooklyn Brewery: It's super exciting. I mean, look, I've been brewing for 35 years. I can tell you straight up, I have never in my entire career seen any single subject that has excited people as much as phonio. Period. And I'm a geek, right? So I love all kinds of malts, and you have an old variety of malts, and you have a new hot variety, etc. I'm all over it. But when you ask regular people, hey, what do you think of this? And you tell them about Phonio, they want to know more. Everybody wants to know more. I've never seen anything like that before. This resonates, especially with younger people who have to spend the next, you know, 60 years, 70 years on this planet. and want to take care of both the earth and the people on it. And so I think that Fonio Rising greatly resonant. And we've had an opportunity through our Brewing for Impact program to work with a wide variety of partners, brewing collaborations, to help bring Fonio even deeper into the brewing industry.

[00:57:27] Zoe Licata: You mentioned that Brewing for Impact program. You have heavy names on there. I mean, Guinness is involved. Carlsberg is involved. Russian River was involved. Vinny was really excited talking about it at GAVF this year. What is the vision for that moving forward? Do you see this being more people participating in that in these collaborations? Do you see Fonio Rising something that's just part of folks' repertoire going forward? What does that look like?

[00:57:53] Brooklyn Brewery: I think it will be. Yes, Carlsberg, Guinness. I mean, the Guinness, you know, Fonio Stout launch parties have been crazy. So much fun, you know, and the African diasporic community coming out for those. So you know, those parties are popping off. The Omnipoyo party in Stockholm and Sweden. Always great to work with Vinny. We worked together before. I know Vinny plans to keep brewing with Fonio. Carlsberg making 100% Fonio beer and finding out that it tastes like sake and champagne, like they're really excited about what they're going to be able to do with it. Maison Callao in Dakar, in Senegal, who are out there selling a Fonio beer as their number one beer in their portfolio. So we've had a lot of inquiries to the point where I have an FAQ that I send to people. And now RAR BSG are going to be carrying Fonio as a regular product that you can just go buy when you're buying your malt and your hops in the first place. And that's a big deal because it puts Fonio Rising there, you know, in the center of brewing ingredients, which is going to be very, very easy for people to simply order.

[00:59:05] Zoe Licata: That's very exciting. What, how about for yourself and for Brooklyn, how do you see Fonio Rising for your future there?

[00:59:13] Brooklyn Brewery: I think Fonio was a big part of our connection to wider communities. I mean, yes, beer does have a European background, but it also has this background. You know, beer comes from all over the world. It comes out of Africa and went everywhere, and everybody has their own brewing traditions. So in connecting beer back to other places in the world, we also connect a diverse U.S. population with the overall beer culture. I think that's increasingly important. I mean, we are seeing a lot of other perfectly good beverages eat our lunch on a day-to-day basis. The wine people and the cocktail people and the sake, everybody's doing a great job and we're doing a great job too but we've been a little bit too narrow maybe and here's an opportunity to do something that's going to make great great beer do great things for community, do great things for the planet, but then also just sort of speak to people where they live and give them something new to talk about. It's really good stuff, you know, and it has basically no downsides.

[01:00:23] Zoe Licata: We love something with no downsides.

[01:00:26] Brooklyn Brewery: I mean, like, look, agriculture is, you know, is a difficult business. you know, and it does usually require a lot of inputs. We don't tend to ask that many questions about where all of our grain comes from and how it gets grown, etc, etc. But you start looking into it, like, you know, it's a little bit tough, like, you know, everything that we eat every day, most of the time, all Fonio Rising functionally organic, you know, so whether it's certified or not, it's all functionally organic, it's never had these chemicals applied to it, and it doesn't need it. It wouldn't actually help. So this is a grain that grows essentially in a desert because that's where it's from. And we're told that this is non-arable land, but actually it is arable land, just under a particular crop that we haven't been familiar with.

[01:01:13] Zoe Licata: It's really exciting, the opportunities that are out there with this product. And I'm excited to try some of these beers too that have come out. I mean, you really are hyping up the flavor possibilities with it. They're just super exciting.

[01:01:27] Brooklyn Brewery: Well, I'm glad to say that it's not flavor possibilities, it's flavor realities. I like flavor realities better than possibilities.

[01:01:35] Zoe Licata: Well, the Flavor Realities have created this, the beer that is coming from you guys, our new product of the year. This is Brooklyn Brewery's Fonio Rising. Really, really excited to see what else comes out with this. So thank you again for chatting about it.

[01:01:50] Brooklyn Brewery: Well, thank you. And we're very, very honored. This is huge. Thank you.

[01:01:55] Breeze Galindo: And that's our show for this week. Thanks to Sean McNulty for joining us. Thanks to Jess and Zoe for all they do. Thanks to our audio team. And thanks to all of you for listening. We'll be back next week. Happy new year.