[00:00:00] Justin Fonthe: Heading to CBC? Kick things off the day before at Brewbound's meetup at Love City Brewing in Philly, Sunday, April 19th from 5 to 7 p.m. Connect with beer industry leaders, grab a drink, and catch up with the Brewbound team. It's free to attend and walking distance from the convention center. Head to Brewbound.com slash lovecity.rsvp. And don't forget to catch the Brewbound team at booth 956 during CBC. What's it like to buy your brewery back? Find out next on the Brewbound podcast. Hello and welcome to the Brewbound podcast. My name is Justin Kendall and I am the editor of Brewbound and I am not joined by Justin Fonthe. I'm joined by Zoe Licata, Brewbound reporter extraordinaire. How you doing Zoe?
[00:00:56] Zoe Licata: I'm okay, minus just not being here and the weather being cold and rainy. Otherwise, things are great.
[00:01:04] Justin Fonthe: Yeah, well, speaking of great, things are great with Jess. We can report, we can tell you that she and the baby are both good and healthy. That's all the details we're going to give. We'll let her spill everything. You know, come back in September if you're here for Jess Baby News, reach out to her, you know, if you know her. Anyway, congrats to Jess.
[00:01:25] Zoe Licata: And very cute baby.
[00:01:27] Justin Fonthe: Yes, that too. Not that she's listening to this because she should be doing anything in the world other than listening to this. But you should be listening to this and we're excited to have a guest who bought back his brewery or is in the process of it. And that's Ryan Sentz from Funky Buddha. He and his brother Casey bought back Funky Buddha from Constellation Brands. Well, they're in the process of it. And you're going to find out a lot more about that, what it's like to buy back your brewery, what the conversations internally are like between you and your partners to make sure that you're on the same page and everything else. So stick around for that. And also. If you're in the Boston area, we're coming there July 12th for brew talks.
[00:02:12] Zoe Licata: Yes, we will be back at the Sam Adams Taproom in Jamaica Plain. We have made our two topic choices. Can we announce that now?
[00:02:21] Justin Fonthe: Yeah, let's do it.
[00:02:22] Zoe Licata: We have two panel discussions that are going to happen. One is going to be on what the heck is next for hazies? Are they going to become their own style? How are they going to combat some of the declines that they're finally seeing after a lot of growth? And then our other panel will be talking about kind of just a wholesaler and retailer gut check. What is even happening right now in that space with what we've previously talked about was kind of a different spring reset season. So two interesting topics.
[00:02:53] Justin Fonthe: Yep. And on that second panel, the Wholesaler Retailer panel will be Dogfish Head, Sam Calagione. On that first panel, we can announce that Kimberly Galinsky, President and General Manager of Wormtown Brewery and Wooster.
[00:03:10] Zoe Licata: Wooster.
[00:03:11] Justin Fonthe: Yeah, there. Let's have an actual Bostonian do it.
[00:03:15] Zoe Licata: from, yeah, Wormtown in Worcester, Massachusetts. That's without the accent, but still proper pronunciation. Worcester.
[00:03:24] Justin Fonthe: One of my favorite shows of the last couple of years was, I guess I can guess since Jess isn't here, Fuck Heaven. And it's set in Worcester. And I remember seeing B. Hoppy in the coolers. I really appreciated the attention to detail there in their packies.
[00:03:43] Zoe Licata: in the Paki's that are rarely called Paki's anymore, a dying term.
[00:03:49] Justin Fonthe: Yeah. Well, let's get to this week's news. And would you know it, we have another craft brewery deal.
[00:03:56] Zoe Licata: Who would have thought? Yeah, 2023 has quickly become the year of craft acquisitions and whether that's craft on craft deals or founders buying back their brands. So it feels like there's at least one a week.
[00:04:14] Justin Fonthe: It's not one a week, it's at least three at this point.
[00:04:19] Zoe Licata: Minimum. But the most recent that we saw was towards the end of last week. Baltimore-based Ducla Brewing announced that it was going to be acquired by River Horse Brewing Company, which is based in New Jersey. They announced it on social media saying that both brands are going to continue to be managed separately, but they're kind of joining forces for production and their facilities and possible distribution partnerships so everyone can be a little more efficient across the board. And this is something that Dave Benfield, the founder of Ducla, has been attempting to do for the earliest, to my knowledge, was 2017 when he announced he was starting to shop around the brand, wanting to change his role a little bit to focus more on strategy and innovation. And in the press release, they said the vibe of Ducla and pass on production responsibilities. So River Horse is going to expand their capacity at their New Jersey facility to take on Ducla's production. So from our understanding, that means Ducla will be closing its Maryland production operations, which has been a trend of late. That would make it the third brewery in the past couple of months to shut down production operations in Maryland. We saw Diageo do it in April, and then another Craft and Craft acquisition, Flying Dog, out of Maryland, transferring its production to Utica with its acquisition by FXMAT. So something is in the air in Maryland. You might have to dig into more on what the heck is happening over there, but people are pulling out production.
[00:06:01] Justin Fonthe: Yeah, that 2017 story that I think I wrote it about Ducla looking for an owner. I feel like we need like the SpongeBob SquarePants six years later. So here we are. And this is a smaller brewery that's acquiring a larger brewery, right?
[00:06:21] Zoe Licata: Yes, significantly smaller brewery. I mean, Ducla produced 30,000 barrels at its peak in 2021, but they had around 27 barrels in 2022, according to the Brewers Association, distributed in 23 states plus DC and Canada, according to their distribution list on their website. Meanwhile, River Horse had an estimated 9,000 barrels in 2022, and they only distribute in three states, two of those that crossover with Duclos. So yeah, significantly smaller, like a third of the size, but they're going to be taking it over.
[00:06:57] Justin Fonthe: Yeah. And we talk about another deal and that was the Ninkasi deal merging with Wings and Arrow, which was Josh Landon's platform for progressive adult beverages beyond beer offerings, whatever you want to call them. Ashland hard seltzer and villager spirits, mucho aloha hard tea. I think I got some of them in there, but yeah. They were already producing about 85% of their volume at Ninkazi, and now they're going to be transferring all that production there. Josh Landon will be CEO going forward, but Nikos Ridge and Jamie Floyd will remain involved in the business. So we know those details. This all came about because of an existing relationship that they had, and that's that contract brewing relationship. And now look out for an Nkazi rebrand coming this August that was pretty much spearheaded by Josh and Other note, I guess the real interesting little tidbit that we got was that they're looking to acquire one of these distressed San Diego breweries. So they're kicking the tires on a few of those. And we should know something more here, I would think. I'm not going to put a put a date on that.
[00:08:18] Zoe Licata: Sometime in the near future. But yeah, so we have a coverage up of our Q&A with us talking to Josh Landon last week, but it was a really interesting conversation because the last time I had talked to Josh was early 2022, a little over a year ago, and he was at the time Wings and Arrows had three brands and there was like looking to bring on one more and saying you know that's probably plenty of brands for me but then it just kind of took off and it seems like he has realized he has the full mental capacity and now with Ninkazi physical capacity to put even more brands out there.
[00:08:56] Justin Fonthe: Yeah. So Josh Landon is running a beer brand in the year 2023 again, and he's going to launch another one with Wings and Arrow Beer Company, which is going to be a San Diego SoCal brand. So lots going on there. I don't know if any of those distressed brands, if they'll continue the IP of those, that's something we get into there, but he's kind of looking at just best case scenario, best fit. With that, let's get to some more news, and that was leadership changes at Uintah Brewing. Jeremy Ragonese is stepping down as president of Uintah, the Salt Lake City, Utah-based craft brewery. He's going to be moving back to Kansas City. He's handing the reins over to Noah Brown, who has been Uintah's sales chief since around 2019. He was the first hire that Ragonese made when he took over as president, and Brown had been with Uintah before, leading their national accounts chain team. And then he left for Rheingeist. Well, he came back under Jeremy's leadership. And, you know, several years later, here we are. And Jeremy is going to actually be moving back to Kansas City. So he and his family are moving there. It's just time to go home, basically. And I feel super happy for him because he's one of the good guys in this business, one of the most straight up guys. And, you know, he's worked through some really tough times there at Uintah. As they scaled back and really refocused on their home market. So very happy for him. He's going to remain in a remote position from Kansas city for the time being with us beverage. And he's going to drum up some of the contract brewing business for them. So if you're interested, hit up Jeremy. Thanks. So yeah, lots going on at Uintah, but congrats to Noah, congrats to Jeremy. These things can be acrimonious, but I was on a Zoom call with all of them and everybody was cool. Everybody was happy for one another. This is not usually how these type leadership changes go. And the fact that Jeremy's staying on in some capacity really speaks to that.
[00:11:10] Zoe Licata: Yeah, that's awesome to hear and definitely not the case always.
[00:11:15] Justin Fonthe: Right. Well, let's get into some more Brewers Association data and you dove into the tap rooms, microbreweries and brewpubs. So what are some of the high level highlights there?
[00:11:26] Zoe Licata: Yeah, so this is kind of our last big data dive from this year's production data out of the Brewer Association. On the taprooms side, collectively taprooms increased volume 9%, and that was led by some increases by some of the largest taprooms. including Treehouse Brewing, which was the largest overall taproom. Again, they increased production 10% in 2022 to 44,000 barrels. And that I only expect will go up again in 2023 as they continue to open up large extravagant locations such as the golf course that they acquired last year that just recently started serving beers at the end of the year.
[00:12:12] Justin Fonthe: That's a new Brewers Association class, is Brewery Taproom Country Clubs.
[00:12:18] Zoe Licata: Right, right. Only Treehouse so far, but any other contenders, feel free to... Make yourself known. Yeah. Largest taproom below regional status, so below that 15,000 barrel mark, was Topatopa Brewing out of California. They increased production 49% to 14,900 barrels, so just under that regional status. And this is the 2nd consecutive year that they have been the highest ranked tap room. That's not included in that regional list. Also increasing production last year, so if they continue that trend, they should make it into regional status next year. On the microbrewery side, a little less growth and excitement. Collectively, they were able to increase volume 1%, but more than half of the top 50 microbreweries by volume recorded declines last year, including seven of the top 10. The largest microbrewery of that group was Alvarado Street, which increased production 24% to a little over 14,500 barrels. They have been just increasing production year over year over year. The earliest number I have for them was 2016, and they've increased every year since then. So they should, if they continue that, get regional brewery status next year. The next three largest microbreweries were Mighty Squirrel here in Massachusetts, Jacky O's out of Ohio, and Tampa Bay Brewing out of Florida. They were all regional breweries last year and recorded declines. So they are on that microbrewery list this year. And then Out of brew pubs, volume up 5%. The star of that show was Pint House Brewing again as the largest overall brew pub, also sometimes referred to as Pint House Pizza. They increased production 17% to nearly 21,000 barrels after a 92% increase in 2021. and they were also on that regional brewery list. The largest brew pub under 15,000 barrels was Ellicottville Brewing out of New York. They produced 14,000 barrels, which was flat versus 2021.
[00:14:27] Justin Fonthe: And Zoe's not reading from a script. She's just memorized all this.
[00:14:32] Zoe Licata: Yeah, I have all these numbers in my head. No, this is all from our coverage, which has so many more details, including regional rankings for brew pubs and for tap rooms. So if you want to see the stars in specific regions, kind of the highlights and the top producers there, check that out because there are way more numbers than I could ever read on this podcast.
[00:14:54] Justin Fonthe: Well, you might have the coolest party trick if you memorize all this.
[00:14:59] Zoe Licata: Cool with what group of people, though? Very small select group.
[00:15:02] Justin Fonthe: I think we'll invite over Bart and Paul Gatza. See? It's already getting to be a good time.
[00:15:10] Zoe Licata: A rager.
[00:15:11] Justin Fonthe: Yeah. All right. Well, let's play a game of another round or tabbing out, and then we'll get on to our featured interview here. These craft light loggers, they keep coming in. The latest that I received was Bell's Logger for the Lakes, and it's a really good beer. How are you feeling about craft loggers here as we get into the summer, Zoe?
[00:15:36] Zoe Licata: I'm all for it. I love a good lager. I also tried this, I tried it over Memorial Day weekend and it was delicious. I am all about it. Lagers are one of the things where if I want a beer and I want it to taste like beer, that's where I can get what I want and not have to deal with any of the IPA bitterness that I don't enjoy. So I'm pleased more people bring them. I am for the year of the lager. I don't know if it'll ever actually happen, but I appreciate that people are trying to make it happen.
[00:16:09] Justin Fonthe: This is the most perfectly named beer out there because my first thought drinking it was, wow, I could crush these. And I would say I could crush these on a boat, but the sun is my enemy. So that seems unlikely and probably not true. And I don't want to lie to anybody out there, but if you're into, you know, fishing and boating and hanging and stuff like that, tubing, this is probably a beer for you.
[00:16:39] Zoe Licata: Yes. And it also helps some, they have some environmental charities also associated with this. So you're doing good for the planet too.
[00:16:47] Justin Fonthe: Yeah. So recycle those cans too while you're at it.
[00:16:50] Zoe Licata: Yeah.
[00:16:51] Justin Fonthe: Another product that hit this week is Loverboy. The hard tea maker is getting into a lemoncello spritz. They're selling eight packs for $40. That definitely raised my eyebrows. Are you buying another round of this or are you tabbing out?
[00:17:09] Zoe Licata: I'm conflicted about this and I think I'm probably not getting one myself, but then if my friend orders one, I'm going to be a little jealous because it sounds delicious and I'm all for a spritz, but $40 for an eight pack is a little, a little steep for me. And these are available. only directed consumer through the Loverboy website, which is where Loverboy does a lot of their experimenting and seeing what they'll bring to retailers. And they've only had their spritzes actually on shelves for about a year now. They just started last year. So I'm sure they're probably testing the waters with this one as well. But yeah, it's a lot.
[00:17:51] Justin Fonthe: you know, shipping this liquid is not cheap. So I totally understand that. It's fairly in line with, it's actually probably cheaper than some of the other spritzes it appears that they have.
[00:18:03] Zoe Licata: It's in line with their other eight packs. They do have a 12 pack of another spritz. I believe that's like 50, some of the $60. But I think it also speaks to the loverboy consumer a little bit is it's a bit more elevated. It's a bit of that like younger millennial who has a career now and drinking some of these drinks, these spritzes, and seems like they're pretty okay with that price tag.
[00:18:30] Justin Fonthe: Yeah. And it's, uh, it looks like it's about 10 bucks to ship it too.
[00:18:34] Zoe Licata: So get your wallets out people.
[00:18:37] Justin Fonthe: Yeah. Well, let's get to one more. And I'm calling this one brutal honesty. And it's not something that you always get from the CEO of a brewery. or, you know, an out Bevout company, but here we are. And there was a fireside chat. I believe it was last week with Bill Newlands from Constellation Brands. And Nadine Sarwat asked him about the investment that Constellation Brands made in Canadian cannabis firm, Canopy Growth Company. I'm going to get it all out eventually here. It's a lot of C's in here. So anyway, Bill's reply was, that was a horrible investment that we made. Hopefully it's been made crystal clear that there's been no more investment from Constellation Brands in this particular arena. So Zoe.
[00:19:39] Zoe Licata: It's crystal clear now.
[00:19:41] Justin Fonthe: Yeah. How are you feeling about brutal honesty from your publicly traded CEOs?
[00:19:48] Zoe Licata: I'm all for it. I'll buy around for every single CEO out there. Out of selfishness as a beer business journalist, I find it quite refreshing. Having sat on many earnings calls and listened to very generic responses about things, this is quite refreshing.
[00:20:09] Justin Fonthe: It absolutely was. That was one that popped me for sure. I was like, I can't believe he actually said that. And why, why have I sat through quarter after quarter of earnings calls and not gotten this refreshing honesty? But I guess when you've made a $4 billion investment or whatever it's been, and you're continuously writing that one down.
[00:20:30] Zoe Licata: Yeah, that's a hard pill to swallow and a hard thing to admit. But I guess they realize now they might as well just admit to it. Stop getting questions about it. Stop getting people asking them if they're gonna get into other cannabis-related brands. But cannabis just seems like such a hard space right now, especially with, like, federally, it's entirely up in the air. They don't even know, regulatory-wise, what they can do with things. It just might have been a case of hopping onto something too early, and it just wasn't worth the risk.
[00:21:05] Justin Fonthe: Yeah, I think they were definitely looking for that early mover advantage and were still waiting on that federal legalization. And, you know, for that too, Constellations had quite the last month or so with getting out of the craft beer space. And you can find out more about that in the next interview with Ryan Sentz from Funky Buddha. The 10-year anniversary of Funky Buddha Brewery is upon us, and there's big changes coming to the Florida Craft Brewery. Founders Ryan and Casey Sense are reacquiring the business that they created in 2013 from Constellation Brands. Joining us to discuss the deal, what comes next, and the anniversary is Ryan Sentz. Thanks for being here, Ryan. Yeah, thanks for having me. So, Ryan, how long has this deal been in the works?
[00:21:55] Ryan Sentz: So a long time in that we've, you know, I think shortly after we were acquired, very close to that time period, the industry kind of changed, right? So there was this idea of a lot more breweries that had national potential. Right when we were acquired, if you look back, there was a ton of acquisitions. And the hopes were that this was the next brewery that we could make national. But at the same time, breweries and ownership exploded, right? So I think when we restarted, there was maybe 1,800 breweries. And you probably know better than me, but I want to say there's 10,000 plus now, maybe more, minus some closings. So things became hyper-local, certainly regional. The idea of a brewery becoming national was harder and harder. So I think not long after the idea of, okay, the reason why we were acquired wasn't to be the best brewery in Florida or the best brewery in the Southeast, but with the hopes of, hey, this is a craft beer. You could still have Sierra Nevadas. You could still have Dogfish Head. You could still have Sam Adams. You could still have these breweries that you could plug in. ballast point all throughout the country. And that just became more difficult. And so I think it wasn't long after certainly wasn't seen as a mistake to purchase. But the strategy had to change.
[00:23:14] Justin Fonthe: You definitely sold at sort of the peak time to sell. So in that regard, you were very, you know, fortunate to make the move when you did.
[00:23:24] Ryan Sentz: Yeah, I think we saw that. I mean, I know we saw we, we, we, we didn't know at least. And we just said, this is the right time. I mean, selling was obviously very bittersweet for us. This was, it wasn't a plan. It wasn't. despite what we've heard there wasn't we didn't open with it with ever an intent to sell I didn't open a brewery saying that one day we open a brewery and said hopefully one day my children like it enough to where they want to run it or we continue to run it and whatever but yeah I mean we started being approached and we had never put together a plan but it was only three or four years in when all of a sudden people started kind of knocking on our door. So yeah, it was the hype. And the reason we obviously know it's the hype is because not much happened post-sale. There's a few acquisitions, but not much.
[00:24:08] Zoe Licata: What were some of those early conversations like? I mean, you said that the brand was ready to go in this new direction, but when you're talking to Constellation about this, they obviously have their own feelings on it. What were some of those first conversations like of, hey, what paths do we need to explore next?
[00:24:27] Ryan Sentz: So, you know, so we had talked to a few kind of major players in the space. And back then, again, the idea was to, hey, listen, we've got we've got a network of distributors and suppliers that will put you in there and craft is hot and it's exploding. And this is how we're going to do it. So for us, it was, OK, who's going to take best care of our brand? Who believes in us the most? who still believes in us, you know, both myself and my wife Gianni and Casey and Melissa. And then there was the decision of, okay, if we don't go in that direction, it was this crossroads of we are going to have to reinvest in the brewery because we were just, we were reaching capacity and it's either, okay, take the heavy investment or find someone to, and for me and for other people in the family, it was a difficult one. It wasn't, we never celebrated it, which is crazy to say. We didn't celebrate like, yeah, which is again, crazy to say. And I think we ended up, we made the right decision, but this was our passion. This was our child. So for us, we saw Constellation Brands the one and we believed in the vision. And I think, not to discredit them, I think there was an industry change that made those things very difficult for all of us.
[00:25:40] Justin Fonthe: So when we fast forward to now, you know, and that opportunity presents itself, however those conversations started between you and your brother and Constellation Brands, when did that conversation sort of start and when did you really see that as, this is a real opportunity?
[00:25:58] Ryan Sentz: It's happened a few times over the years where we thought there was an opportunity And, you know, again, starting back with when they decided to sell Ballast Point, I think strategically at that point they saw this is going to be a little more difficult than we expected, and even more difficult if you don't have a Ballast Point that you don't think can carry the next craft brand with you. So there's been talks for years about how serious they were. varied over the years, and I think there's been times where Constellation Brands, okay, wait, you know, when the Seltzer came out, there was the big Seltzer boom, and ours was and is very successful in Florida. There's, okay, let's pause any kind of talks and let's see how we can deal with this. I mean, the realest it's ever become has obviously been recently because it's came to fruition. And for us, it wasn't so much of an opportunity other than it made sense for both sides. the upside wasn't, or at least the strategic plan wasn't there for them as it once was. The difficult thing always from the very beginning, and Casey and I got this, was how the hell do you make Funky Buddha a priority in your portfolio when you have Modelo and Corona? There was other people doing it, certainly Budweiser and Heineken, there were people doing it, but when those things were exploding and showing double-digit growth every year, it was a challenge. So we didn't fault the business, the overall business for kind of not pushing the pedal on Funky as much as we would like. But at the same time, all Casey and I care about As Funky Buddha. I can care less that how great Mandela's doing. I mean, happy for the business that it's doing, but what I care about As Funky Buddha and the employees that work As Funky Buddha.
[00:27:37] Zoe Licata: The two kind of trends that we're seeing right now with craft brands is either them merging with other craft brands and becoming something together, being acquired by another craft brand, or founders buying back the brand, which is what you guys did. Why was that the right decision? Why was it, yes, we are the right ones to usher in this next chapter for our brand?
[00:28:01] Ryan Sentz: Yeah, I actually had another brewery text me yesterday congratulating us and saying, we're doing it too. It's not known, but we're trying to. And I was like, yes, good for you. I think it's going to depend on the situation. I think for us, we stuck around. I think a lot of people thought either A, when we sold, we're gone. We're out. We're on a beach somewhere. We don't care. It's, it's about, it's about the money, but for us, we, we loved what we started and we felt like we can still kind of be champions of the brand and help guide it in the right direction. So I think you'll see both and depending on whether or not you have people that are. And there's nothing wrong with it that are strictly in it for business reasons and saw it as an opportunity. And then it got out and they're doing other things or people that are like us, that it's both it's a business, but it's also a true passion and. We've been doing this now, for me, starting with the original lounge, it's been almost 16, 17 years. And for a brewery, we're coming up on 10 years. So it's a real thing and real people. And I think it would have been easier if we had checked out a couple of years ago to not want to do this again. But we were so involved, and I was so vested in Funky Buddha and the family that works here. We have 100 plus people. It was an easy decision for us to say, if anyone's going to do it, we have the best chance of making it succeed.
[00:29:17] Justin Fonthe: It sounds like you and Casey were on the same page from the start on reacquiring the brewery. Was it a harder sell for your families or was it an easier sell because you've been involved this whole time?
[00:29:31] Ryan Sentz: We've been on the same page, but at different times, you might have one person pushing more than the other person based on, hey, I think this is a good business opportunity versus, hey, this is something that we should do for other reasons. We have, you know, not only active wives in the business, I mean, I don't want to discredit them, like the business, the large part of the success of the business is because of them, you know, but they've, more than that, they've been incredibly supportive. So it's, thankfully that's not, I can speak for myself and I think for Casey as well, that's not something we've ever had to like deal with as far as, We wanna do this, but my wife doesn't think it's the right idea or thinks it's bad. They absolutely know that we're gonna be working a ton. They absolutely know that the levels of stress that we have are gonna be tenfold, but they also know how we are wired and that if it's not this, it's something else. And why not something that you're incredibly passionate about and that they're also incredibly passionate about. The people that work here are their family as well. So it hasn't even been in discussion, at least for me, my wife is just, she's on board.
[00:30:34] Zoe Licata: That's great. So as we've mentioned a couple of times, this is the 10 year anniversary of the brewery's founding. That decade mark tends to be kind of a transition point for a lot of places to, you know, what is going to happen for this, this next decade. So what do you see as this next chapter for Funky Buddha? What are your priorities and ushering in this new stage?
[00:31:00] Ryan Sentz: so different than like just owning the business for 10 years and not, and just going like, what are we doing next? Right now it's like, for better or for worse, we've sat on our hands on a lot of things for the last five plus years. And for me, I see an opportunity for us to be not just a brewery, but really beverage innovation. There's so many really, really good people here that want to explore whether it's a healthy energy drink alternative or hydration drink. This is where I probably would have my brother cut me off and saying, shut up. He's not here, I can talk. Distillery, you know, that's something that we're both really, really passionate about. And for all the positives of being part of a big company, one of the negative things, and I've kind of always used the analogy, it's like steering the Titanic. It's like when you want to make decisions and when you want to make a change here or want to introduce a new product, it's a lot more difficult than just coming to Casey and Ryan and saying, can we do this? You know, sometimes what might take a year could take us weeks. least we could discover in weeks that it was a bad idea, as opposed to putting all this effort into it and capitalizing on opportunities that you see and new products that are coming out. That is what I'm most excited about, because it's not just reacquiring Funky Buddha, but we've got so many ideas, both for local level, as far as what we're doing in our taproom, to just Yeah, I don't want it to be, and this is my grand plan, I don't want it to be Funky Buddha Brewery. I just want it to be Funky Buddha and seen as, you know, these are the people that do some crazy stuff or beneficial stuff, whatever it is. There's so much synergy here, whether it be through our brewers, our lab, our sales people, that we can do a lot of stuff. And that's going to happen.
[00:32:40] Justin Fonthe: Yeah, it sounds like the cuffs are off basically and you're able to sort of innovate at a rapid pace or a more rapid pace than you would have been within a larger organization. Yeah. So one of the things that you've excelled at or Funky Buddha has excelled at is flavor innovation. And that probably couldn't happen at a better time because flavor is embedded in what this new generation of drinkers are after. And you all have been doing this for several years now. So when you look at the landscape of where beverage alcohol is, what is the biggest opportunity you see there? You know, you mentioned some of the areas that you plan to play in, but what are you most excited about?
[00:33:29] Ryan Sentz: Over the last couple of years, the big thing has been things like RTDs and High Noon, for instance, and for us to be able to play in that space and not only do it, but put Funky Buddha's twist on it, right? And whether it's very culinary influenced and using real ingredients, but I think just kind of doing it, but doing it in a maybe in an elevated way. That's the biggest opportunity I see. And again, distilling and coming up with our own spirits just on the horizon.
[00:34:01] Zoe Licata: We've seen a lot of breweries and greater Bev-El companies shifting their distribution strategy a bit lately and what markets they go in or how fast they go into them. What do you see as Spooky Buddha's distribution strategy now with you guys?
[00:34:18] Ryan Sentz: So, the past couple of years, we've pulled back to where Constellation Brands focused on Florida. So, I don't see that changing in the near term. We're certainly not going to try to go, okay, let's build up our volume by putting out and going 20 different states and adding a little bit of volume. We want to be really good at what we do, and then I think the rest kind of will happen naturally. And not to say we won't want to capitalize on opportunities if we can go national or regional, but our main focus right now is Florida, South Florida. It's our taproom, but we don't plan on, as far as our distribution strategy, where we're at right now, who we're with, where we're sending stuff, that's going to stay the same.
[00:35:01] Justin Fonthe: This is such a capital intensive business. And you mentioned that sort of off the top of, you know, when you're growing so fast, it's throwing money back into the business. And that was one of the reasons to partner up. Now that you're on the other side of that, are you set up to where you have everything you need or, you know, are you going to need more production capacity? Are you going to need, you know, what, what are some of the needs going forward?
[00:35:27] Ryan Sentz: That was the great thing about being with a major company is we said, hey, we need a keg line. And then we had a million dollar keg line and things that it's a little more difficult. certainly there's challenges in the beer industry right now that we didn't have when we sold, right? And we didn't have at the beginning. And as you said, like the very beginning, we were profitable day one. We could not make enough beer. And anyone that came to me that told me they were thinking about opening a brewery, I'm like, do it, do it quickly. You know, because you are, you're going to be successful. And there was at that time where you just, you couldn't do any wrong. we realized that with the acquisition, it wasn't just acquiring it, we were making a significant investment back into Funky Buddha. So there is going to be other equipment, whether again, it's going back to distilling, reinvesting in the tap room to create new experiences, other beverage innovation. It's not just a, here are the keys and just continue to run it as is. We have a lot of plans and it's going to take some investment.
[00:36:25] Zoe Licata: Is there anything else that you learned from that time with Constellation Brands you plan to either bring with you or to not do now that you guys are back to being independent?
[00:36:37] Ryan Sentz: I mean, you look at Constellation, the positives, you look at how Constellation Brands their employees. What they did, for instance, throughout COVID was not something that we could have done or most small businesses could have done and endured. And not all big businesses did do, right? There wasn't some, we know, we saw what people were doing, we were a part of, and we're seeing, God, these people are really being taken care of. So I don't know if it was learned, but it was certainly appreciated to see that, okay, no matter the size of your business, you have to have that focus that none of this exists without your employees and without good employees. So that's something that's, super important to us. The benefit that we have is all we care about As Funky Buddha. What Constellation Brands at wasn't their fault as much as it was a product of the system, right? And it was very difficult for them to put priority on something that really honestly shouldn't have been a priority in the grand scheme of things. So for us, that's where the opportunity is. That's what I've learned. And decisions have to be made quickly in this business. You can't sit back. You can't wait for the next trend. You have to be in front of them. You have to continue to develop. You have to continue to be creative. You can't sit here and say, we've got the best IPA because no one's going to give a shit in three months. It's got to be, what do I have next? And what's the next drink? And good for us because that's what we like to do anyways. But learning, you're certainly exposed on the timing of products and getting stuff out there.
[00:38:07] Justin Fonthe: not only was there a shift in the craft brewing industry, but having been in that Constellation system for so long, there was also a management shakeup, you know, like you're there with some, you know, heavy hitters in the beer industry, like Bill Hackett and the late Paul Hederich. And there's turnover on that team, you know, as we've seen through the years. So it's kind of like, uh, When you're in an administration, I guess, you know, and like the top level players change. So does, you know, their priorities.
[00:38:38] Ryan Sentz: Yeah. Yeah. Things are going to change. And a lot of times. the person that succeeds you is the exact opposite because maybe they think that's what the business needs or it's just how that personality is. So yeah, there was changes because of the leadership and I think some benefited certain segments of the company and some not so much. I can tell you that a large part of the reason why we ended up selling to Constellation Brands because of those two guys you just mentioned. And not to say that Constellation Brands't have several others like them, but those two specifically, I mean, when you talk about Bill, he was, you know, he was Constellation Brands the time, but he was just a good, good person, someone that we believed in. And you talk to, when we're in this process of talking to people, and it's like you're being courted, and you don't know, once the ring is on your finger, then they can just be like, ah, too late, we're married. We believed in what Paul and Bill were saying, and we liked them, and we wanted to be part of that organization.
[00:39:34] Justin Fonthe: We've seen it over the last couple of years of what has happened to some of these acquired brands, whether it's Molson Coors shutting down St. Archer, Anheuser-Busch turning Platform into three IPAs with no physical presence, no brewery. It's hard to know when the priorities shift. what the future actually looks like, you know? So that's a difficult position to be in. And that's why I think, you know, a lot of us are excited to see founders from like Appalachian Mountain Brewery get their brewery back. Four Corners, which was at Constellation Brands their founders have the brewery back. Three Weavers and Inglewood got the brewery back from Canarchy. And now you guys.
[00:40:18] Ryan Sentz: Yeah, it's certainly happening. And someone reached out to me from Appalachian recently and said, we need to do a collaboration because we're both acquiring. And again, someone else that hopefully will come to fruition soon as well. And today we're in talks as well. The industry changed and ultimately it is a business. So these people acquired these companies because they thought it was going to be something. And sometimes strategically something goes wrong or sometimes the industry, you know, things just change. And for better or for worse, we're happy that we were in a position that we stayed involved, that we stayed in good relations with Constellation, that we were able to acquire. It's a very unpopular, maybe unpopular thing to say, especially in craft. I don't put a whole lot into whether or not you're independent or not, right? And thankfully, I've been able to say this now from a place where we are independent. Before, when I was saying it, it just sounded like, you don't care about being independent because you're not. And you want to praise that. To me, it's like a band. They sold out. They got big, whatever. Whether or not the product changes, the people that are involved change. And to me, I'll continue to support a company, no matter who owns them or or what the status is if I believe and I want to support the people that are still there. And the product that I liked at that time hasn't changed. So the Constellation's credit, they came on and they didn't say, hey, Ryan, we can get your wheat malt eight cents cheaper if we use this and it's not as good. There was nothing like that. They never said, hey, we need you to do this. So I know just as many non-independent breweries that to me play dirty games and don't treat their employees well than big breweries that are just really, really good to their employees that continue to put out good products. So to me, that's what matters, not a, here's the sound bite, I don't see us putting an independent logo on our bottle because that's not what matters. I want people to support us because they know that we are a good company and they like our products. not just because we are no longer owned by, what does that mean? That Ryan and Casey get the profits instead of shareholders? Why does anyone care about that? They should care that hopefully we're good people and hopefully we treat our employees well and we put out a good product. But again, not a popular thing to say, especially on the heels of becoming independent, which we were excited for, but I just want to make that distinction that all independent aren't good and all non-independent aren't bad.
[00:42:51] Justin Fonthe: I think that some of that is completely overblown, you know, because it's like, well, you have 9500 10,000 breweries, you know, some of them, as we saw over the last couple of years, they didn't treat their employees. Well, they didn't treat their female employees. Well, you know, they. there's any number of bad actors when you have a group that is that large, you know? And it's like, it's like you said, you know, if you're taking care of your employees, if you're, you know, the same company that you were before, just with a different ownership, what's the real difference?
[00:43:26] Ryan Sentz: Yeah. Yeah. Good news. We could be racists and sexual predators because we're independent. You know, like, who gives a shit? Sorry. But like, it's just, I mean, to me, again, that's what it's all about.
[00:43:38] Zoe Licata: On that note, have you seen any shift in consumers' opinions on this? Because when you guys sold, it was kind of, especially within craft consumers, it was kind of a really big deal to not be independent. And there seems to be a shift that we've seen a little bit, but from the people who are buying the beer that you're seeing, has there been any shift in if they care or not?
[00:44:02] Ryan Sentz: So you're right. So when we I think there's been a huge change since we sold six years ago to where people were really angry about reselling. I think maybe because there's less or maybe people just got immune to it. I was pleasantly surprised. I thought when we made the announcement, I really did, I didn't think anyone would care. I was just like, yeah, it'll be like, you know, there's gonna be friends that are happy for us. But again, it didn't matter to me in my head, other than like, I, the excitement of, I know what we're gonna do, but they don't know that. So yeah, I think people are more accepting of people that sell now or don't sell, but it has been 99.99. I don't think I've read a, I say that, and maybe it's 100%, I don't think I've read a single negative thing about us acquiring it back. I read a lot of negative when we sold.
[00:44:46] Zoe Licata: There's there's no one kind of still holding that over your heads or anything saying like, oh, well, now you want to run it and you did it before.
[00:44:55] Ryan Sentz: Yeah, I guarantee there's people out there saying that somewhere. I haven't seen it, but yeah, there's going to be people that have. We've heard rumors in all directions and things that we were doing and the reasons we did it since the day we opened the brewery. First day we opened, you're doing this because you want to sell. I'm like, really? That's news to me.
[00:45:12] Justin Fonthe: But even if you did want to sell. It's a business. You have your own priorities and goals. It's not like it's, you know, this is the only industry that I think I've ever seen where, you know, people who have success and they get rewarded for it, they're looked down upon almost. It's kind of weird.
[00:45:36] Ryan Sentz: Again, music as well, you know, where people are just like, you blew up and we reap the rewards of that passion, right? And so it's not just bad, right? People get that upset because they're so passionate about that brand that they fell in love with. And I'm As Funky Buddha drinker, I'm a Sierra Nevada drinker, I'm this or that. So we can't just look at it as like, man, why are they so pissed? Because the reason why we are able to do what we do and the reason why people are excited and get the word out is because they are that passionate and they do love and they do wanna, they're the ones that wanna introduce their friend, you've never tried Funky Buddha. That doesn't happen if they're not passionate. So you kind of expect them to be maybe, you know, upset. You want people to like, kind of take our word for it when we, when we say why we're doing the things we're doing or our intentions to stick around. But ultimately I do, I do get it. I do get it.
[00:46:24] Justin Fonthe: Well, Greg Cook sold his brewery. So I mean, and they had a boilerplate.
[00:46:31] Ryan Sentz: I won't touch that one.
[00:46:32] Justin Fonthe: Well, why don't we transition a little bit? You have the 10th anniversary. It's starting now. So what do you have going on for this? How are you celebrating?
[00:46:42] Ryan Sentz: Yeah. And this is, you know, we're planning this before we knew we were going to acquire the brewery, but it's, it's a, it's a big deal for us 10 years. So we have 10 days of events leading up to a kind of a celebratory day, 60 beers on drafts. but just different pairings and, you know, just kind of a celebration of Funky Buddha. We would have, again, the ironic part is this would have happened regardless of whether or not, you know, we're, the people here didn't care about where their check said. They cared that they worked for Funky Buddha and they believed in the product. I think now they're going to be excited that we can maybe do things a little quicker, but yeah, all the stuff that we had planned was going to happen regardless, but we're excited. Big celebrations.
[00:47:25] Justin Fonthe: And that wraps up when?
[00:47:28] Ryan Sentz: Not this Saturday, but the following Saturday. So sorry if I don't know the date, maybe the 9th or 10th will be the culmination. And then 10 days before that, I believe it goes from the 1st through the 10th. I should know this.
[00:47:38] Justin Fonthe: That's all right.
[00:47:39] Ryan Sentz: I've been busy. Got a couple things going on.
[00:47:42] Justin Fonthe: Well, congratulations, Brian. We're super excited for you. Looking forward to hearing more, you know, as things progress.
[00:47:50] Ryan Sentz: Yeah, appreciate that. We look forward to making more announcements.
[00:47:53] Justin Fonthe: Awesome. Well, that's our show for this week. Thanks to Ryan for joining us. Thanks to Zoe for hanging out. Thanks to our one man audio team, Joe. And thanks to you for listening. We'll be back next week.
