Brewbound Podcast: Firestone Walker Details Its House of Brands Strategy

[00:00:00] Justin Kendall: Heading to CBC? Kick things off the day before at Brewbound's meetup at Love City Brewing in Philly, Sunday, April 19th from 5 to 7 p.m. Connect with beer industry leaders, grab a drink, and catch up with the Brewbound team. It's free to attend and walking distance from the convention center. Head to Brewbound.com slash lovecity.rsvp. And don't forget to catch the Brewbound team at booth 956 during CBC. Next on the Brewbound Podcast, we get into the marketing weeds with Firestone Walker. Hello and welcome to the Brewbound Podcast. I'm Justin Kendall. I'm Justin Fonte.

[00:00:49] Firestone Walker: And I'm Zoe LaCotta.

[00:00:51] Justin Kendall: And this week we are going to have a marketing conversation with Firestone Walker CMO Dustin Hinz and Barnett Director Hannah Barnett. So stay tuned for that. And we've got a lot going on. First of all, how are you all doing?

[00:01:06] Firestone Walker: Good. Chilling. No complaints. Same.

[00:01:11] Justin Kendall: All right. Yeah. Enjoyed your three day weekend?

[00:01:15] Firestone Walker: Yeah. Yeah. Mostly found out I have to pay a lot of money to fix my car, but

[00:01:20] Dustin Hinz: Oh, that's rough.

[00:01:22] Firestone Walker: Yeah. I'm just learning to accept it. How was your three-day weekend, Justin?

[00:01:28] Justin Kendall: Pretty relaxing, actually. I didn't do as much work as you would expect.

[00:01:35] Firestone Walker: I want you to do no work, so that doesn't make me very happy at all.

[00:01:40] Justin Kendall: Well, we'll get into the reason I had to do just a little bit of work once we get to the news. But first, we got to talk about our next upcoming event. And it's a new thing that we're going to do called Brewbound podcast on location. And what that means is we're going to be at events where craft brewers gather, and we're going to be doing live podcasts. Basically, we're going to record them live to tape, I should say.

[00:02:09] Firestone Walker: Yeah, it's similar to you might have heard some of our episodes from the California Craft Beer Summit last year, where we're on the floor talking to people. Jess and Justin are going to be there this year, but potential opportunities to do that at other places this year. It seemed to go really well last year. It was really fun just to be on the floor and talk to people. People are coming over to the booth while you're recording and stuff, being respectful, of course. It was a good time. So excited to see what else we can do with it this year.

[00:02:40] Dustin Hinz: That was really fun last year. And I think the finished product was also really cool. You really had the sense that you were there with us on this bustling conference trade show floor. So I'm excited to do more of it. So we'll be doing it in Sacramento at CCBA's conference next month. And I assume we're okay to talk about the time after that.

[00:03:01] Justin Kendall: Yeah, you can let the cat out of the bag.

[00:03:03] Dustin Hinz: And we will be doing it on the trade show floor at Craft Brewers Conference in Las Vegas in April. So if you are around, I'm sure we will make note of our booth number soon. So come find us. If you want to shoot us a note to say you'll be there too, absolutely. Drop a line to news at Brewbound.com or podcast at Brewbound.com. I think either one, all of that goes to all of us. Let us know if you'd be interested in stopping by and having a chat.

[00:03:30] Justin Kendall: So I think that we probably should say to this means that we're sunsetting BrewTalks for the most part. We enjoy the conversations. We enjoy the gatherings with everyone. But, you know, it's a concept that I think may have run its course a little bit.

[00:03:47] Firestone Walker: Yeah, well, we're seeing that a lot of the events that we're going to are starting to expand what they're offering for folks. And we want to make sure we're still doing something different and putting something fresh out there for folks. And so potentially doing another panel discussion on top of other things that folks are attending wherever we are may not be providing the greatest benefit to everybody. And so doing something like a podcast or a booth where you come and talk to us in person, offer something different, and we still get content and fun conversations out of it.

[00:04:19] Dustin Hinz: Yeah, I mean, especially with BrewTalks at CBC, we were starting to feel a little bit like those memes about exhibit from Pimp My Ride, like, yo dawg, I heard you like conferences, so we put a conference inside your conference. So I think Brewman Podcasts On Location, like you just said, Zoe, is a fun way for us to do something different, but still, you know, be there and, you know, among the people. and getting the news, making the news, and doing all the things that we do.

[00:04:44] Firestone Walker: Yeah. We always wanted Brewtalk to be something that wasn't conflicting with the main event content that was going on. And there's some really awesome additional programming that is going on now at these events, like Thrive, like we're seeing that MB2A has some stuff going on around CBC. So there's a lot of really cool other events that are happening now that we really don't want to take away from.

[00:05:09] Justin Kendall: Let's get into the news. And one of the big stories of this week is that Big Grove has acquired a majority stake in Climbing Kites, which is a THC and CBD infused sparkling water brand. It is all based in my home state of Iowa, which when I learned about Climbing Kites, I was a little surprised that I had to educate myself. I didn't realize that this was something that was even legal to do here.

[00:05:39] Dustin Hinz: I have had the Farm Bill explained to me so many times, and I always have to look stuff up because it's complicated. You know, like, Justin, we've talked about this. Iowa has no legalized forms of cannabis at all, right?

[00:05:52] Justin Kendall: Outside of this?

[00:05:52] Dustin Hinz: No medicinal, no recreational. Yeah. But this allows it.

[00:05:57] Justin Kendall: Yeah.

[00:05:57] Dustin Hinz: And everything's on the up and up.

[00:05:59] Justin Kendall: Right. Everything is on the up and up.

[00:06:01] Dustin Hinz: It's just very complicated.

[00:06:02] Justin Kendall: Climbing Kites was founded by Lua Brewing, which is a Des Moines based craft brewery. And the owners of Lua have a relationship with Big Grove going years back. And once they launched this brand last May, they kind of realized that logistically they didn't have the resources that they needed. So they reached out to Big Grove and Big Grove said, Let's go into business together. And if we are going to go into business and handle the business side of things, we want a majority stake in the business. So they have a 51% stake. And this deal actually closed in September and it was sort of kept quiet. It was kind of an open secret around Iowa craft beer circles, but it's just now hitting sort of like the mainstream as of Tuesday.

[00:06:50] Dustin Hinz: Yeah. I mean, the product line seems really interesting to me, different flavors and then different combinations of THC and CBD in varying concentrations, amounts. But I mean, I don't even know how we refer to that. Like what is the ABV equivalent term?

[00:07:07] Justin Kendall: I think it's the milligrams of THC and then CBD, right?

[00:07:12] Dustin Hinz: Yeah. So there's not actually like a word for it. It's just literally what it is.

[00:07:15] Justin Kendall: And I've tried the product. I've enjoyed the product. That's not something I would have thought would be in my fridge, but here we are. Nice. So anyway, that's that story. You can read the full thing at Brewbound.com if you're an insider and you've probably seen about half of that in our insider version of the newsletter. But let's talk about the other story that popped up over the weekend. And that was the reason that I did 10 minutes of work on President's Day. And that's the Molson Coors strike in Texas. The Teamsters members at the Fort Worth Brewery went on strike. They walked off the job on Saturday and they are picketing and they are asking for improved benefits and pay and this comes on the heels of Molson Coors' last earnings report where they said that they basically achieved six years of earnings in one year.

[00:08:10] Firestone Walker: Yeah, it's hard to fight against people asking for more benefits when you've had such a good year financially and have been touting that success for a while. It's to be expected. Unions are hot right now.

[00:08:26] Justin Kendall: Yeah, and for its part, Molson Coors has said that they had built up inventories and that they have contingency plans in place. But this is one of those instances where I think the Teamsters are sort of flexing their muscles and they are throwing out the warning flare to Anheuser-Busch because at the end of this month is when the contract between Teamsters union members and Anheuser-Busch expires. And if they don't, that's, I think, 5,000 AB union members who are going to be going on strike. So I think this just serves as like a warning that if you think we're not going to do it, we'll do it.

[00:09:11] Firestone Walker: We've also seen that like you mentioned, just like union efforts and those types of things are really big right now and are getting a lot of support. And you know, we've seen some craft brewery efforts happen. Aslan is recognizing a union there as well. It's a big moment for unions and team servers and everybody trying to get what they're asking for and really show what power they can have. So it's definitely the moment where they can do it and definitely get some support behind them.

[00:09:43] Justin Kendall: Well, the Fort Worth plant, I believe it produces around 8.2 million barrels annually. It's all the major products, plus Simply Spiked, Topo Chico, Yingling, through that JV that they have with the Pennsylvania Brewery, and Pabst, which is Contract Brewed. But that brewery is, what the Teamsters said, the only one that really services the West Coast, or Molson Coors. So we'll see how long this takes before they get back to the bargaining table and get something done. And with that brew bound insider, we got to plug it. There's a lot of original content that you'll be able to get if you are a brew bound insider. And that includes our new series around with, which is a Q and a with notable industry figures. The latest one is with break side breweries, Ben Edmonds. There's also three up three down with three tier beverages. The latest edition of that quarterly series is up now. I think it just went up what Monday's Zoe.

[00:10:42] Firestone Walker: Yeah, I went live Monday and we're also going to be talking with Stephanie Moraitis who helps us write those up and does all the insights for those. So that will be on the podcast next week. She'll be on talking about everything she had in that latest quarterly report.

[00:11:00] Justin Kendall: lots of reasons to become a Brewbound insider. So before we wrap up this episode and get to our featured interview, let's play Another Round or Tabbing Out. And the latest one, the Brewers Association has pulled the plug, at least for this year, on Home Homebrew Con, which is an event that's near and dear to Jess' heart. They're moving related events to the Great American Beer Festival. Are you buying Another Round of this move or are you Tabbing Out?

[00:11:27] Dustin Hinz: Well, I mean, you need to put this in the context of the decisions that the BA's board of directors made last week, which was to remove two seats Great American Brewers Association members had on the BA's board. I think when you couple that with this, it does kind of show that the AHA's importance is certainly being downplayed. And there's a lot that goes into that because here's the thing, in the year of our Lord Taylor Swift 2024, nobody needs to make beer at home. You know, when homebrewing became legalized in 1978 and when the AHA was founded and all these things happened, the BA didn't even really exist, you know, it was hard to get good beer or hard to get differentiated, interesting variety of styles beer. So people learned how to do it at home, but today you don't have to do that. This community that still homebrews is super passionate and it's always been interesting to me to see what homebrewers are making, you know, because they're not really bound by capitalism like the rest of us are. I'm sorry this is turning into a ramble, but I think it shows that the importance of this community is, I don't want to say devalued, because that's not right, but being downplayed a little bit. And, you know, Homebrew Con a really big event that the AHA, which is part of the BA, you know, had every year. I have been to three as a sponsor in my old life. It's interesting. It's social, it's educational. And for a lot of people, this is like the highlight of their year. And I think a lot of these people were going to GABF regardless. So now they'll just, you know, they'll get to do their cool homebrew stuff at GABF and we'll see what happens. But I get it. I get why the BA did it. It's, you know, events are expensive. It's hard to get people to come to them. So, you know, they discontinued Saver, the end of 2022, you know, they're trying to ease their operational complexity because I'm sure sending thousands of home-brewed beers to an event venue in a different city every year is no small feat. So I get it all. I think it's a bit of a bummer, but I understand it. And for that reason, I don't know if I would tab out or buy Another Round.

[00:13:46] Firestone Walker: Yeah, I'm going to refrain from choosing Another Round of Tabbing Out just yet until I see what it even looks like at GABF. I know we've heard of new things and booths at GABF before, and they weren't really what we thought they were going to be in concept. So it'll be interesting to see what this one looks like, like how big is that setup look like, how differentiated is it from the rest of GABF stuff, or is it going to feel like it's its own sole AHA thing. In the announcement they said, you know, there's going to be this section that's only for AHA members, you're going to have special only member sessions and beers to taste and that kind of stuff. So I'm just, I, don't know what it's going to look like yet, just because it's kind of hard to tell when the BA describes these things sometimes. So if it still provides them that space, then I think it'll be interesting and it might, I mean, it's better than getting rid of all home brewing outlets overall. But yeah, I can't really have a total opinion on it yet. I got to see it.

[00:14:52] Dustin Hinz: Yeah, I also feel like it probably was difficult to get sponsors. It's a shame because there's such a passionate community that is really into beer for the sake of beer itself. And I don't think you see that among craft drinkers anymore, but I think it's just another bit of evidence toward the way that the craft industry has changed, especially in the last call it five years.

[00:15:14] SPEAKER_??: Yeah.

[00:15:15] Justin Kendall: It's one of those things where it's hard to walk back to because once you do something, once you, you know, say, oh, we're going to pause it this year. Are you really going to come back and do it? You say like, oh, we're pausing this, but you know, are you really?

[00:15:32] Firestone Walker: Think about all the homebrewers that were already going to GABF and going to Homebrew Con realizing the amount of money they're probably saving on travel and everything by only having to go to one event. When you realize that, you might not want to go back to spending that much money again.

[00:15:49] Justin Kendall: And that's the other part is, you know, is this Another Round to go to GABF? Or as you both have pointed out, are these people already going, you know, because we know that tickets didn't sell out to all sessions last year of GABF. And I'm not even sure if that's an anomaly in recent years. So they're definitely trying to think of ways of driving traffic there, but is this new traffic or are these just, you know, what's the Venn diagram look like with home Homebrew Con attendees and GABF attendees?

[00:16:19] Firestone Walker: probably a pretty populated middle section there. I mean, it's the people who are super passionate about craft. I would be surprised if they haven't tried homebrewing as well. I mean, we've seen the change in just GABF attendees in general as the ships from craft enthusiasts have happened. So yeah, I feel like there's not too many folks that were going to Homebrew Con that weren't also going to GABF.

[00:16:47] Dustin Hinz: The one thing Homebrew Con that I hope is able to live on in some form is club night, which is the night in which all the homebrew clubs basically throw their own Beer Festival. And it's crazy, you know, like they, they get so into it. You know, every booth is a club's booth and they have a theme and they dress up and they name their beers accordingly. They decorate, it's like a whole thing. And that's the night where you get to see all these beers. Like, what can you make if you don't have to, you know, appease a focus group? So super interesting. I've always enjoyed my time and I hope the BA finds a way to bring that back.

[00:17:23] Firestone Walker: Yeah. The AHA has said on the site announcement too, when they were saying like what it's going to look like this year, that it's still TBD on what that will look like. So there's potential that it could happen. There's lots of potential that it couldn't.

[00:17:37] Justin Kendall: And I think the one thing that we may have not overlooked, but not mentioned when we should have at the top of this was event revenue was down 2% last year in the Brewers Association's annual report. And events are its greatest revenue source, right Jess?

[00:17:53] Dustin Hinz: Yeah, events are nearly three times as much as the next closest revenue source, which is membership revenue, which was also down. Yeah. I mean, they've realized some savings in other buckets, I think, including event operations, but stuff out there. I don't know. I feel like we had a pretty lengthy story about their new term, but we may not be too far gone. So I'll just stop talking.

[00:18:14] Justin Kendall: No, but they can go read that if they're a Brewbound insider and they should stick around now for our interview with Dustin Hinz and Hannah Barnett from Firestone Walker.

[00:18:25] Hannah Barnett: This episode is brought to you by the Craft Brewers Conference, where big ideas, bold beers, and brutally honest shop talk collide. Join thousands of industry pros leveling up their game. Don't miss it. Register now at CraftBrewersConference.com.

[00:18:45] Dustin Hinz: What does craft beer marketing look like in a crowded industry? How can you help tap into experts from other fields to share your brand? Our guests today are Firestone Walker Chief Marketing Officer, Dustin Hinz. Hey, Dustin, how are you?

[00:18:58] Paso Robles: Hey, Jess. Hey, Justin.

[00:18:59] Dustin Hinz: Hey, thanks for being here. And joining us today is also Firestone Walker Brand Director, Hannah Barnett. Hannah, how are you? I'm good. How are you all? Good. Thanks so much for being here. So Firestone Walker had a bunch of announcements lately, and I feel like we've got a ton to discover and discuss, but let's hop right in and talk about the Invitational, because I know that's something that people look forward to every year. And I think you were kind enough to invite us last year, but it was on the same day as like my due date. So I could not make it, but thank you. And I mean, what does the Firestone Walker Invitational Beer Festival mean to the brand? Because it is huge. So I know people throughout the industry have lots of thoughts of it on their own, but what does it mean for you guys in particular?

[00:19:47] Cali Squeeze: Yeah, I mean, I think for us it's, you know, I think Matt had a quote that said it best, which is about, it's about setting down the sell sheets and really connecting with our craft community. So much of what's fun about the beer community is, you know, the competition, but there's just these awesome times where we get to come together and celebrate the things that we love about beer. And so for us, that's what Invitational really represents is it's, it's a moment for us to, be present, be with each other, share what we're excited about, share what other brewers are excited about, and really give a platform for everybody to share the craft that they love so much.

[00:20:22] Paso Robles: Keeping beer sticky is important, right? Keeping people motivated to want to be a part of it. And it's exciting. And, you know, for consumers to be able to come in and meet the brewers, hopefully that's encouraging people to be a part of the community. The more people we can get excited about beer, the better it is for everybody. So that's what something Matt's done an awesome job of. And, you know, he really is sort of the North Star and all this and his passion for 65 breweries from all over the country. I mean, that's a Herculean effort to get those guys on to Paso. But when they come together, you know, it's as much a party and celebration for the brewers and the things that they're doing behind the scenes at the water park and the barbecues as it is about the actual festival. I'd say it's probably more of a brewer's party and then a Beer Festival. So, you know, I think it's great for the industry and keeping people excited about beer.

[00:21:08] Justin Kendall: Let's talk a little bit about that and sort of the vibe because it's no secret to anybody that craft has had some struggles of late. So how can Beer Festival like this sort of energize the craft consumer?

[00:21:23] Paso Robles: I think it's different for everybody. And I think that the word craft is probably maybe an outdated term at this point. You know, we look at ourselves as a California brewery, right? We make, you know, we have everything from, you know, 805, which, you know, we think is, you know, can redefine what craft means. And you've got brands like Cowleys, Swedes, and then our core F brand lineup, which is what the brewery is built on. And I think at the end of the day for us, you know, and this is why, you know, we brought Hannah on and she's been amazing for us is, It's trying to figure out how to, well, the Invitational, for example, is like, for us, that's about connecting with the other breweries, keeping people excited about beer. It's given us Another Round to talk about beer, to come for 5,000 people, which isn't going to be enough to sustain any brewery, but those 5,000 people become evangelists for the brand. They come, they get to experience, they get to talk about it. But more so the Invitational gives us an opportunity really in our local community. And that's what we're excited about, not just the community of the brewers, which, you know, nobody's better at math than being, you know, sort of a nation builder and thought leader in all the other breweries in the brew industry. But for us, what we can do with the Invitational local community is really important. You know, keeping our community excited about it, the city of Paso Robles, the San Luis Obispo County, the Central Coast, you know, that's a big focus for us. to deepen our roots at home as well, while we're also working with these 60 breweries from all over the world.

[00:22:46] Justin Kendall: You said something I want to circle back on, and that's that craft is outdated as a term. Why do you believe that?

[00:22:53] Paso Robles: but might be outdated. I think just the, you know, when the guys started there were 26 years ago, there were what, 900 craft breweries, something like that. David tells me the stories, you know, over a beer every once in a while, and he'll talk about what it was like 26 years ago and versus where it is today. And, you know, with a lot of the acquisitions, I think, you know, the definition of craft is, I don't know when the last time that was evolved, but, It's, I think it's a brand led industry now and I think the definitions of craft and the way you look at a lot of the data on, you know, Nielsen data versus, you know, the way the consumers look at brands, I don't think consumers looking at brands is craft. And I think that's just become more of an industry term at this point. And I think the way that we reach consumers and the way that we get consumers excited about our products has nothing to do with a label of craft or not. I think it's style, it's flavor, it's brand, it's price. It's all of those factors. And I think what we're constantly thinking about is how do we position our brewery and our family of brands appropriately to be able to get drinkers excited, keep them excited, and continue to innovate in a way that keeps them curious about our brands. We don't wake up in the morning and say, how do we be the best craft brewery? you know, we think about how do we be the best California brewery? Like, how do we make the best beer? And I just think that sometimes it's a label that maybe some are too worried about applying. And instead, we just kind of focus on, you know, how do we make great brands and how to wrap up these amazing beers that Matt and his team produce. I come from the music space, obviously. I talk about that from time to time. I've only been in beer for five years, but it reminds me a lot of independent music. I'm an indie artist, and everyone got so consumed with being an indie artist. Don't sell out. At the end of the day, you had some artists that stayed true to that, and then you had other artists who were like, look, I want to make great music and I want the world to hear my music. And that's kind of the way I look at it. And I think the guys look at it. We all look at it that way is we just want to make great beer. And we want to try to get that beer to as many people that we can and be in the footprint that, you know, is important to us.

[00:25:06] Dustin Hinz: That's a comparison that people made in craft beer a lot, particularly in the last decade. And I think and I imagine both of you would agree that we're kind of past that point now. You know, there's not the righteous indignation when a brewery sells to either like to a large global brewery. I think those days are kind of over. Do you think that has changed anything in the way drinkers look at craft beer now?

[00:25:32] Cali Squeeze: Yeah, my background left a small craft brewery in Boise, Idaho to go work for 10 Barrel a few years post-acquisition, right in the heat of it all. So I think that for me, it's been very interesting to watch. I agree with you, you know, opinions have changed. And I think that it's, I think people have realized that the more time you spend focused on these labels and these names and these large, you know, mostly industry concepts, the less time you're spending connecting with your customers and making products that they want. And like, so for me, you know, I definitely will say it has changed from the days of when I was at 10 barrel, they were doing GoFundMe petitions to fly signs over our opening in San Diego to say that 10 barrels, not craft. And, you know, that was that was a lot. And I totally understand the passion and the frustration with these big companies coming in and buying breweries. I mean, it's it's been something that that people have been frustrated about for years. And I think as the industry is balanced out, people have realized it's really about making good beer and it's about paying attention to your customers and giving them something to love.

[00:26:42] Dustin Hinz: Yeah, exactly. Hannah, tell us about you a little bit. When did you join the Firestone team?

[00:26:46] Cali Squeeze: I joined the Firestone team back in June. Invitational was actually my third day on the job.

[00:26:50] Dustin Hinz: Oh, my God.

[00:26:52] Cali Squeeze: What a welcome. Yeah, I mean, couldn't have been a more perfect way to get inducted into Firestone. So it was also the perfect timing to jump in and get started on all of our planning. And so it's, you know, I'm really excited about what we're doing. And it's been, you know, it's been a whirlwind past couple months, but it's been a really exciting one and I couldn't be, I think parabola was like one of my first barrel age beers I got back when I was like 22. So I've always had this like respect and admiration of what Firestone Walker's done. So getting to be called up to work for the brand was a really exciting opportunity.

[00:27:27] Dustin Hinz: That's awesome. Congrats. I do want to frame this conversation in terms of marketing because that's a little bit behind why you guys are here. So you've got some big announcements on the 805 front. You're doing really big things. And you know, you've got a new ad out that really shows the, I'm going to butcher this and I apologize, but like the authentic goes, I say that, right? Right. Cool. But I mean, it doesn't actually say like, these are our authenticos, you know, like, I mean, I can see how all of this came together, but the ad is gorgeous. It clearly connects to the 805 black and white aesthetic. And let's talk about the creative process that went into it, because clearly there's a lot of work at play here.

[00:28:07] Paso Robles: 805 is one of those brands, and that's what attracted me to 805 five years ago when I joined, is that the guys built something really special. And they're artisans, and there's a lot of uncommon care that goes into everything that David and Adam and Nick and the team do at Firestone. So when we set out to bring the world to life, the focus was always on storytelling. And as we ramped that up and we acquired and brought in new athletes and artists and creators, it's always a film storytelling concept first. So that spot actually wasn't set out to be, we didn't shoot that spot, right? We wrote a spot and then we went and took all of the great films that we've produced over the last 18 months or so, and we sort of put that together. And I think the brand is really a collection of these viewpoints of all of these these athletes that we call authentic goes that represent the consumer makeup. And so you know in a lot of those that we do the high level start to launch was really to get as many of those as we could into 30 seconds. And 15 seconds and we're voiced over by the white buffalo who's just got this incredible voice is the singer songwriter from Southern California that we're big fans of and he's big fans of us. So sort of just kind of came together at the perfect moment. And it's a beautiful spot. And what's great about that is over the course of the year when we see you know the women driven spots that we do. around International Women's Day or the Hispanic spots that we'll do around Cinco de Mayo. It's set up a storytelling device that allows us to tell all of those different stories in a very connected and cohesive way. That allows us to take that all the way down to the trade, to our experiential programming, to our content. It's a full 360 effort and that's what I think makes 805 so special is how consistent the message can be in every single different vertical. And that's something the team puts a lot of focus in, and I think they nailed it.

[00:30:06] Justin Kendall: So how do you sort of vet an authentic co to ensure that they match up with the values of the brewery?

[00:30:14] Paso Robles: That's a great question. We spent a lot of time talking to them. Our brand director Nate Sheets actually grew up in the central coast. He lives in Templeton which is about a three minute walk from the brewery. So you know there's nobody that is more tapped in to the 805 than Nate. And we spend time with the Authenticos. Obviously, if they're involved in pursuits that we're very passionate about, that's the first step. But then we'll spend time, we'll talk to them, and we'll see if we share those mutual passions. And if we do, it's sort of off to the races. There's not an athlete or artist or creator or musician that we work with that we don't deal with directly. Some have agents, some have managers, but when we get into a relationship with an Authentico, we don't do We don't do month-long deals, six-month-long deals. All of our relationships are like, hey, if we're going to do this, the plan is to like, let's stay together, right? And let's keep it going. And so when you think about Tyler Berman, I think Tyler's been with us for almost a decade. He's one of our X Games champions. Connor Coffin, who we signed for four-plus years now. So, you know, we look to develop long-term relationships that aren't just about an individual campaign, but they're about a lifestyle pursuit and, you know, in the real relationships. So that's our core focus. And, you know, I think we have a pretty high success rate of that. I think we've only maybe parted with one athlete in the five years that I've been here.

[00:31:43] Dustin Hinz: The 805 family includes both the original and 805 Cerveza, which is your Mexican lager. How are these two brands both alike and different? And do they get equal footing in marketing efforts?

[00:31:55] Paso Robles: Yeah, so Blondale and Lager with Lime, 805 Cerveza was born out of this kind of beach beer, 805 Cerveza was born out of this beach beer conversation I was actually having with one of the brew captains. And you know, that he would, he'd been working on it behind the scenes, you know, he's a big fisherman. And there was a lot of talk around, you know, how can we lean into that space? And so, you know, it wasn't ever set out to be a Mexican lager. It was just set out to be, you know, a California lager with lime, with a little bit of lime in it. And, you know, California blonde ale. What the guys have done with that beer over the last decade is really impressive. And, you know, so ultimately the goal of 805 is that there can be a lot of different We think that over time, if done properly, there's a lot of extension opportunity under 805. And it's really making sure, though, that we create a really strong foundation for what 805 means. So very rarely do we talk about a specific style. Now, we are going to be, in the summer, launching a big campaign for Cerveza. But for the most part, we try to have the umbrella be 805. And if we can connect consumers with the idea of 805, when they're in the trade and they see Cerveza, or they see Blondel, or they see different vessel sizes, there'll be some sort of attraction to the brand. And we can let the packaging and the trade do some of the heavy lifting of style. But throughout the year, we're going to have strategic efforts where we will lean into different campaigns. But the beautiful thing about our athletes is the beers can be occasion-based as well. So we're smart about it. Our Authenticos actually, some prefer Cerveza, some prefer 805, and we lean into those athletes as a storytelling device. But I think what's different about them is from the testing that we've done and early on when we launched it, we have very little cannibalization. There are different styles. You have some people that prefer The lager and some prefer the ale and that we found that we've been able to extend it nicely. And you guys saw our ABP, there's a tremendous amount of runway on distribution for both of the brands. So we're not in a hurry to extend and extend and extend. And we want to be more narrow focused and go deeper and really make sure that we can get the brand to as many consumers as possible. Because if we can get people excited about beer, if we can get people excited about premium beer, that's better for the entire network.

[00:34:14] Justin Kendall: I wanna go back to the marketing and what you have done with the Authenticos is pretty, I would say, unique in the craft space. I'll just use craft as a term for this. But how do those videos and documentaries and things like that go over with your wholesalers? What do they think about those?

[00:34:35] Paso Robles: There's some partners that look at what we're creating and are just, you know, over the moon about it. Right. And they realize the power of the brand. And then you have other partners that, you know, maybe don't understand the benefit. And, you know, we spend a lot of time with our wholesalers talking about our media strategy, talking about why brand is important, how creating sticky brands is important. And but I look at the end of the day, then what makes the network strong is that our wholesale partners, for example, that incredible like logistic machines, right, they can get beer from point A to point B very efficiently. They have an army of people that can distribute products. And so I think sometimes it's unrealistic to maybe expect that everybody along the way is going to fully understand Especially when you're listening to a bunch of marketers talk about some esoteric views about how strong and powerful the brand is and why black and white matters and why not showing the product is a good idea, when traditional and conventional thinking might be like, well, you've got to show the product. You've got to talk about calories. So I think at the end of the day, what we try to do when we take our programs to all of our partners is, you know, one, talk about why 805. And the beautiful thing about our campaigns is, and you know, I think the most important thing that all of us marketers are put on here to do, especially at Firestone, is to get people to get excited about the brand. So we always like to say, why 805? Why Cali Squeeze? Why Mitease? Why Firestone Brands? And then the rest of the work is, why Firestone Brands now? What are we doing in the trade? What are we doing with our retail efforts, our activation efforts, our sampling, getting people further down the funnel to convert? But at the end of the day, What I spend a lot of time doing with our wholesalers and all beyond those calls is all just continue to sell the dream. And I try to articulate the value of why eyeballs matter and attraction to the brand matters and affinity for the brand matters. And it's hard to measure. I can't prove. that, you know, that's driving sales lift. But what I can do is say that, look, we value brand through these KPIs. We value merchandising and media through these KPIs. And we associate different KPIs with all of those efforts so that way we can quantify some sort of success or at least value. And I think that's gonna be the effort until the end of time. Look, when your sales are through the roof and you're double-digit comps, everyone's high-fiving and thinks everything's great. When times are tough, they question everything, and the first thing that everyone questions is the marketing. The first thing everybody wants to cut is the marketing. And I think the best brands market through the toughest times, and you stand for something so that you can come out on the other side stronger.

[00:37:20] Dustin Hinz: Hannah, you're the brand director for the Firestone Walker core brand family, right?

[00:37:25] Cali Squeeze: Yeah, Firestone Walker and then Cali Squeeze, Mindhaze, all that family of brands.

[00:37:30] Dustin Hinz: Oh God, you're very busy. A little bit. So one thing I've noticed over the past few years is that Firestone Walker has really, to me, it seems very intentional. And I don't know if that's how you guys would describe it, but you've evolved into a house of brand families. And what was that process like? Were there any growing pains? Was that something you realized was happening or did you just kind of wake up one day and be like, oh, wow, so we do have like the 805 family. We do have the Firestone beers. We've got the Mindhaze family. And now we have Cali Squeeze and we need to treat all these things differently. What was that like? And Hannah, I know you're new, but like, what's your brand planning process like for all of those beers? God, that's an enormous question. I'm so sorry.

[00:38:13] Cali Squeeze: I mean, I'll speak to my side of it and then Dustin can probably give some more backstory. But I mean, when I joined, we had defined that this House of Brands strategy was the way to go. I think that seeing what we've done with 805, I think that it's pretty obvious that we had a good fighter on our hands. And so we know how to do that really well. And we have all this expansive runway of opportunity with these other brands in all these different categories. Coming in, it was really exciting to see what potential each of these brands had and start to build out the worlds of what each brand could contain. So I mean, as far as why we went with that strategy, we just felt that different consumers have different tastes and are marketed to differently. And I think that the exciting thing about Firestone is that the same people who are working on 805 are the same people who are working on Cali Squeeze, same people who are working Mind Haze, same people working on Firestone Walker brands. So we have this think tank of brilliant creatives who have these visions, and we're not one note. We're not just 805. We can do things in color with Cali Squeeze. We can do things in psychedelic with Mindhaze. We can go heritage with Fire. We can play in all these worlds. And I think creatively, it's also really exciting for us. I think that we're so... driven creatively to try new things. And we get bored so quickly that it kind of it fits with our style really well, because we love to go play in new spaces and try new things. And I think for us, it was exciting. And, you know, it gives us the opportunity to connect with different customers and have a portfolio that is wide and approachable to young, old, like, you know, high income, low income, like we can we can play in so many different spaces. And I think that that's what really sets us apart.

[00:40:05] Paso Robles: You gotta have a lot of pitches and any sort of healthy brand is going to have a diverse portfolio that's going to allow you to do different things and withstand trends and allow us to innovate in a way like we could never do Flavor Four with 805. I mean, we could, I don't know if we want to, right? And 10% beers with 805. And I think if you don't have a branded house or a house of brands, it's tough to do that because if you're doing it all under a branded house, you can lose the narrative pretty quickly, so. I think there's a huge advantage to building different brands. It's just tough to make them stick. It's tough when it's really a complex portfolio. It's a lot of energy and a team like ours, the size that we are, it's, you know, it's, we will it to existence.

[00:40:50] Dustin Hinz: All of your, your brands, these brand families, like you kind of have one for each or driver in beer right now. That's amazing. You know, like you've got your refreshment in the 805 family. You can play and get innovative with Cali Squeeze. You've got Mindhaze, which tackles the enormity that is hazy. And then you've got the Firestone family that really deals in core craft. That's so smart. Hannah, you said something that I also found super interesting is that everybody works on everything. And, you know, I mean, I know Dustin knows this, but you and I are just meeting, and before Brewbite, I used to work at Boston Beer. And that's not how that marketing department is, and obviously it's much bigger, but I only ever worked on Sam Adams. There are people who, you know, when you work on Angry Orchard, you work on Angry Orchard. When you work on Twisted Tea, you work on Twisted Tea, and that's kind of it. And there's obviously, you know, all sorts of different factors here, but amazing to me that, you know, your marketing team, everybody does it all. What are the benefits to that approach?

[00:41:51] Paso Robles: Wisdom of the masses. I think when you have a lot of talent, you know, obviously we have individuals on the team that have core competencies and focuses, right? Like Hannah day-to-day is very focused on her brands and Nate is immersed in his. But when we're on a call together and we're talking about ideas or creative or go-to-market strategy or building an annual business plan, everybody's working together to, you know, to see how the learnings of their individual worlds can work together. And, you know, especially our head of creative, he touches everything. I'm involved in everything. I think the thing that I'm most proud of about our house of brands is that there's a through line in all of them. It's not like we have all these different brands that don't fit together. If you sat in a room and you looked at the wall of all the beers like you, one of these things is not like the other. The through point in everything that we do is authenticity and credibility, number one. Across the board, the storyline, the purpose behind everything that we do is credible, it has purpose, and that's the beauty of being led by David and Nick and Adam, is that those guys do not compromise when it comes to having integrity and authenticity in everything that we do. So I think the through line there and the consistency in all those products and then the design work is strong, there's consistency. It really feels like they're firestone brands. And so I think the value there is to not lose the narrative and to the learnings of media. I mean, obviously we spend a lot more media with 805 than we do on other brands, but when you have singular points of media strategy, earned media strategy, trade. We can build on the successes and the learnings and the failures of all those brands. And a lot of times, we can use them strategically to bring them behind the wake of a more successful brand. Like with Cali Squeeze, we bring We bring Cali Squeeze to a lot of 805 programs because we know it's a different drinker. We know we're not cannibalizing an 805 drinker with Cali Squeeze. So when we're at the US Open or we're working with the World Surf League, we're bringing Cali Squeeze right along with that 805. is going to be the premier brand that we're pushing out, but Cali Squeeze is there, or we're bringing our other beers. And so we're not afraid to bring those beers together. Because to your point, if somebody wants an IPA, they're not going to drink 805. And so we don't want them. We want to own more of a consumer share fridge. And I think that this gives us the ability to do it.

[00:44:22] Cali Squeeze: Yeah, I think my only add there would be from a business perspective, it makes us less dependent on trends. You know, you have these brands that have built their entire infrastructure around a certain style or a certain piece of the pie. And I think that that's, that's great until, you know, in today's marketplace, things turn very quickly. So having the ability to turn on levers when we need to, and have an answer to the vast change in trends in today's marketplace is really important for us.

[00:44:50] Dustin Hinz: Yeah, I mean, you don't have to awkwardly extend one of these brains into an area that doesn't feel comfortable for it.

[00:44:56] Paso Robles: Ultimately, they're out making things that necessarily aren't going to be at the top of the volume drivers, but it's at the top of, you know, what makes us great, which is, you know, craft innovation. And so that's where the idea of craft and, you know, sort of commerce bump into each other, right?

[00:45:11] Dustin Hinz: One more thing before we let you guys go, Dustin, because you were in the T-shirt made me think of it, the cold beer surf club.

[00:45:17] Paso Robles: Yeah.

[00:45:18] Dustin Hinz: Sounds so fun. You're starting a podcast, right?

[00:45:20] Paso Robles: Yeah, we launched it about a month ago. So it's our partnership with the World Surf League, which was really serendipitous because it kind of came out of like us working with Connor. So when we decided to team up with the World Surf League, one of the things we kept talking to them about was like, look, we don't approach many partnerships as logo slaps or just kind of reciprocation of like, here's a bunch of money, put our logo on stuff. You know, we think great brands stand for something and they have to be sticky. And, you know, what I love about the team at the World Surf League is we're able to bring them a lot of ideas. And, you know, some of which are pretty eccentric in the sense of like, you know, there's a selflessness to like, how do we help surfers? How do we create content? How do we, how do we do something that's meaningful to people? I mean, at the end of the day, what we want people to do is have a passion for the industry that they're supporting and also the people that support that industry. So when we sat down with the World Surf League, we had some ideas about like, hey, let's make something together. We've got Connor. He's retired from the tour. What could we do next? We had a bunch of ideas. And the idea of the Cold Bear Surf Club came up. So they loved the idea. We developed a TV slash podcast because what's great about the podcast is it's distributed through their network. Globally, you know, obviously there's a lot of eyeballs in the markets where we sell beer, but the upside to a lot of the content work that we're doing with them is that it's seen all over the world. So it started as a podcast where it actually started as an apparel line that's, you know, more in the sweater. But, you know, it started as like, hey, let's make, you know, a co-branded apparel line together that we can sell in surf shops and skate shops. all over the world through our partners with Fast House. And then it turned into a TV show, and then trade activation, and pop-up little beach bar activation. So I beat a dead horse when it comes to the idea of 360 and everything. If we're going to do something, we have to make sure that, OK, we're going to do the Cold Beer Surf Club. What's the content plan? How are we going to activate that in the trade? How is it going to come together with apparel? How do we create something that consumers just resonate with? And they want to watch. And so when you watch an episode of the Cold Bear Surf Club, which the first episode was Connor with Chris from the Foo Fighters. The second episode is Chris Lloyd. And then we've got Sage Erickson. And we've got all these great surf adjacent guests. And the idea is just talking about things that we all love. And at the end of the day, if we're talking about things that we all love and brands like ours can bring this to fruition, the hope is there's going to be a little bit more of a connection between a consumer and a drinker and us and that we're investing in and supporting the industry and that, you know, it's not often that you can get up every day and improve the world of the things that you're passionate about and make a product. And I think that's what I love about Firestone Walker. I like 805. It's like, sure, we have to make beer. We have to make great beer. We have to distribute that beer. We have to sell that beer. But at the end of the day, the brand is so powerful that it allows us to really leave a better world than we got. And if we can just, we can get one more person to want to serve, or we can get one more person to pursue their dreams, or we give another athlete an opportunity to continue their career, then I think as a brand, we're making a great impact.

[00:48:39] Dustin Hinz: Amazing. I mean, I know you mentioned that you're a California brewery first, and I, from where I stand, this is the perfect, words are escaping me, manifestation of that. There we go. But does that apply to all the brands in the family? I think, I mean, obviously Cali Squeeze is certainly a California brand, but does that apply to the Firestone brands and Mind Haze? Are they all California first, craft second?

[00:49:06] Paso Robles: Yeah, 100%. Yeah, we're a California brewery. I mean, this isn't on the can. You know, it's funny. It's actually, there's pros and cons to me being a newbie, and I'm still learning. I'm only five years into craft, and that's why I'm so lucky to be surrounded by people like Hannah, and David, and Adam, and Nick, and Matt. Just so that I don't drive the car off the cliff. There's thousands, I'm surrounded by thousands of years of beer experience and craft beer experience. So one of the things we just, fresh eyes was like, what's more important to people? Is it being a California brewery or a craft brewery? And I think that... it's being a California brewery. I mean, California is, I think, a really compelling differentiator. Think about some of the greatest brands in the world are born in California, right? You read the back of a phone, iPhone, it says designed in California, Cupertino, right? Like Levi's, Patagonia, Tesla before they moved to Austin, right? Like, oh, so many great things are born out of California. And I think that if we can, and I think a lot of people can resonate With, you know, a lot of the positive traits, you know, the pursuits, the lifestyle and, you know, how challenging it can be to do business in California. Right. And so I think that, yeah, what California means, I think it means more emotionally to people than Kraft can. So, yeah, that's that's been the North Star for us. And it's something that when we talked about it early on, I kind of saw looking at David and Adam when we talked about it there, you know, there was the fact that that they were like, yeah, that makes sense. And we sort of went that way. And that was always their intention. It was just a different lens in a way to look through it. So. You know, obviously craft is an amazing industry and there's so many connections to like music and all these things about, you know, what I love about the idea of craft is that it's people with dreams and they're investing in making those dreams come to life. And, you know, they're building things. And I think if anything, that's more, you know, American and Californian than it is craft. It's just this idea of building great things, making great things for your community, supporting it. And that was just the moniker that was given to it. And so none of those methodologies have changed. I mean, that's David Walker still gets up every day, calls me, talks about, you know, beer and ideas and things that he wants to do. And so does Nick. And I think that nothing has changed other than like, well, should we just what does this label mean? You know, this label is more of a Nielsen column than it is a mission. But call me crazy. I'm still learning.

[00:51:41] Dustin Hinz: We really appreciate all the time and we know it's early out there. So thank you for getting up to chat with us. This has been delightful. And you know, as always, we love seeing you when we have our Brewbound Live welcome party at The Propagator. Always a great time. I brought my baby. I think she had fun.

[00:51:58] Justin Kendall: She slept. That's a win. She slept.

[00:52:00] Dustin Hinz: That's a win for me. Always something to look forward to. We really enjoyed this. Justin, thank you for being a great co-host. Joe, Josh, Ryan, our audio team couldn't do without you guys. And if you enjoyed this episode of the Brewbound podcast, we will be back with more next week.