Brewbound Podcast: Ding Dong, Drizly is Done; Plus, Scanning the Craft Scans

[00:00:00] Zoe Licata: All the scan data is in. What's it mean for craft? We'll talk about it next on the Brewbound podcast. Hello and welcome to the Brewbound podcast. I'm your host, Justin Kendall, and I am not joined by Zoe Licata or Justin Infante. They are both on the road for work. and you're stuck with me this week, but I have a special guest. And that special guest is Sean McNulty of Brewbound's Insiders Week in Beer. Thanks for being here, Sean.

[00:00:39] Justin Infante: Thanks for the invitation. I probably wasn't the first call, but I hope it wasn't the last call, Justin, I'll put it that way. But you know, listen, honor to be here, honor to be here.

[00:00:46] Zoe Licata: You were absolutely the first call. And I only apologize that we cannot do this in a visual form where people can see all the gifs. or gifts. It really is.

[00:00:58] Justin Infante: You know, it is my one talent that I cannot bring to this format. So that is correct. So, yeah. Oh, well.

[00:01:03] Zoe Licata: Stop the clock, we have breaking news. We're cutting back in from the future, I guess, because we had this podcast all wrapped up on Monday, we thought, and then... You know, you have a day off, Justin, you figure it's, you know, it's a national holiday, nothing's gonna happen, right?

[00:01:20] Justin Infante: But, you know, it's just, the industry has a tradition of this, Justin, which you live through on an annual basis. But anyway, carry on. It's not a Friday news, Dom. It's not a Friday, exactly.

[00:01:30] Zoe Licata: It's a Monday news dump, apparently. Monday night, yeah. Yes. Story broke via Axios that Uber is shutting down Drizzly as of the end of March.

[00:01:43] Justin Infante: Yeah, end of Q1 here. So that's $1.1 billion they paid for that. Justin, is that the number right? Just three years ago, that's how much they paid for it. And then it's gone. Not even not even no integration real. I guess they have I guess the accounts will be offered Uber Eats accounts or something like that, you know, like that. But I mean, it's not like it's it's just there's no more drizzly essentially is what this is, right?

[00:02:06] Zoe Licata: Yeah, they're trying to get everyone to go over to Uber Eats, which still offers alcohol delivery. Right. But Drizzly, as we know it, will cease to exist. The note from Drizzly as of Monday night was this. The dinosaurs malt liquor with caffeine in it. Drizzly. What a comparison that is. Very hip. Very hip. Yeah. So they say that they're shutting down. They say they're taking orders until the end of March. They're going to let you know when last call is. And they say it's OK to move on. In fact, they are encouraging it. They say that you will feel right at home at Uber Eats. I'm sure a very nice Uber Eats marketing person wrote this, you know, goodbye. But, you know, they want their users to migrate over there. Drizzly's had its issues. Right, that big data breach with 2022, I guess. Yeah, looking at this October 22 release from the FTC, they said that Drizzly and its CEO, James Corey Riales, they had security failures that exposed data of 2.5 million consumers. So, Sean and I, before we recorded this, we're trying to figure out how many people actually use Drizzly. And I guess that's

[00:03:24] Justin Infante: as good of a barometer that we can get. And as a result of that, I guess the data that they could collect on users going forward was curbed by the FTC. So I think that was part of the issue and something that apparently Uber knew when they were purchasing this and their due diligence on the deal maybe not have been as sharp as it should have been. But for a company that's all about data over at Uber about their users, maybe not so much on the Drizly accounts. Those people shift over to Uber Eats. They will then get more of that data, Justin, on those accounts and still be able to deliver the alcohol and do the same kinds of things, it sounds like. It's crazy to think that this was a billion dollar deal. It's not nothing.

[00:04:07] Zoe Licata: I mean, it's a large, it's a large amount to essentially write off. You know, I mean, that's what's happening. And it just becomes a line item for a company like Uber. And you know, the thing here is, I don't know how many people Drizzly employed, but they didn't have those frontline people. It's all, you know, outsourced. So they're the ones that connected with the liquor stores that connected with the delivery drivers. And it was a whole independent contractor situation, right? Yeah, yeah.

[00:04:36] Justin Infante: I mean, yet another challenge, you know, it's a first was draft lines and now it's delivery of just like another disruption. You know, I mean, hopefully Uber Eats picks up and the disruption isn't as large, you know, and how big this business is to begin with, who really knows, but just another thing that put on the list of the alcohol industry has to deal with here and change. They were the category leader. in this market, may not have been a huge one, but certainly a name that everybody knew and knew what it was. And now that name is gone. It's just not even gonna be used anymore. So from a branding point of view, great. Basically at this point, sure, thanks a lot. Yeah, appreciate it. Let us know how it goes.

[00:05:13] Zoe Licata: Well, and it's a company that seemingly would have thrived or did thrive during the pandemic era, where we're all stuck at home, and we need people to deliver us booze. And, you know, Drizzly was one of those answers. And yet, how did that maintain? Well, not enough to be a separate line item, apparently, for Uber.

[00:05:35] Justin Infante: Yeah, and then this is unrelated, but you know, just in terms of big tech getting into alcohol, Amazon, you know, was everybody's waiting for Amazon to jump in and that never happened, Justin, you know, and they've had many trials and tribulations, but a few of which have been mentioned in Brewbound. But you know, that's not as easy, alcohol is, as you've written about many times, it's not a plug and play situation by any means, it's the regulation and everything else that goes on with that. So Big tech taking over distribution and things like that just doesn't seem to be happening as was once feared, you know, a couple years ago at this point.

[00:06:07] Zoe Licata: And last May, Drizzly made company wide layoffs. They cut about 100 jobs. So that was part of a restructure and that, you know, as that integration was continuing to go on. So there were some warning signs along the way. And like we mentioned that FTC, you know, cyber hack payout was, uh, pretty brutal.

[00:06:31] Justin Infante: Yeah. Yeah. There's no, no other delicate way to put that. So pretty, pretty devastating along the way. So, uh, poor went out for drizzly and your St. Patrick's day orders this year, Justin, make one final Guinness order for the road. Cause as of March 31st, it will be no longer.

[00:06:45] Zoe Licata: And then you can delete the app and get all that space back on your phone and just migrate over to Uber Eats if you need to order booze via some form of platform. Yeah. Very positive. Very positive end note there, Justin. Very nice. Yeah. We'll have to end on a positive note. Always nice. Yeah. All right. Let's get back to our episode. As I mentioned at the top of the show, we have a full picture of 2023 scan data, which is actually only part of the puzzle, as we all know, because scan data is only part of the puzzle. So what happened last year? Total beer, according to Cercana, don't call them IRI. Total beer finished plus 2.6 in dollar sales and minus 1.7% in volume. And IQ says it's plus 1.1% dollars minus 3% volume. So that's where we are as far as total beer goes. But then we're gonna talk a little bit more about craft in this episode. And Cercata Craft Scans, it was, let's just say minus 1%. And then dollars, minus 4.4%. And IQ Craft, it was a little bit better, minus 0.3%. Dollars and minus 3.8% volume. So, Sean.

[00:08:11] Justin Infante: Yeah, one person. Yeah, exactly, which it's like a team Jay Leno or Conan here, which which team are you? Shikaner or Niq? But either way, yeah, the trends are, you know, again, you're splitting percentage hairs here, but clearly both are in the right direction. It wasn't like one was contradicting the other in any means, so. But Kraft, yeah, you know, down in dollars. I think, you know, I think you pointed out in the article, the volume was down worse last year, I believe, right? And so the decrease has gotten better, I guess, is the way to put that. It's not as bad. Is that how we spend that? I'm not quite sure.

[00:08:42] Zoe Licata: I think the tough thing about this is we know that there were price increases pretty much across the board. And in Cercana, the price was up about $1.50 a case, and that was to $42.41. And what that tells me is, so your volume's down and your dollars are down, so the price increases didn't help I mean, they help some, but they didn't help enough to get you into the green. And, you know, I think that we're here testing the limits of affordable luxury, if that's even a thing anymore. Yeah.

[00:09:16] Justin Infante: I mean, that case price you mentioned, yeah, $42.41. That's a pretty expensive case of beer. I think my college self would be doing a spit take at that right now, at how much a case of beer costs for craft. Yeah, I mean, you know, the numbers as is that we're as bad as 2022. But they're going in this direction. So this is again, end of 2023. We're starting out 2024. And I can't tell you a thing that makes me optimistic that we'll be sitting here a year from now. And this will be a different story. I mean, how much more price can you take? I don't know. I don't think I mean, thankfully, inflation is seemingly leveling off a bit. But But you know, you're gonna raise price in 2024. Does this give you confidence to raise price still? No. So what else in the craft ecosystem is going to change here? What are they doing? What's the active thing? You know, draft isn't going to come back, rise out of the ashes. It's like, there needs to be new thinking and new ways of getting customers at the door here. You know, you've written a lot about this and the change of the guard at a lot of companies. And, you know, so I think that that gives me optimism. Maybe there's some new thinking, new approaches here to like, all right, we need to forget that old playbook and we got to deal with the world we're in, not the world that we grew up in kind of thinking, Justin, but I haven't heard much talk of, and here's what we're going to do to, you know, to change the tide.

[00:10:28] Zoe Licata: It's kind of wild, too, because you can look at the scans and go, oh, Imperial IPA. Look at how that's grown. And then you you just come to realize when you hear from Bart Watson, who breaks it down and is like, this is really like a new Belgium trend, a voodoo ranger trend, not a. Yeah. craft overall trend. But you know, then, oh, boy, you know, look at the opportunity and not alcoholic beer. And then you're like, well, but it's expensive to make, you should really pasteurize it to adhere to some safety guidelines.

[00:11:01] Justin Infante: Did you mention non-alcoholic beer in the craft world that you know, I my own personal anecdotes It's not like it's it seems like something they they know we should have this on offer things like that It's not a thing something that anybody's really enthusiastic about even though I you know, the numbers are there for a great opportunity But it's not friendly to small breweries put it that way, you know Firestones the world things like that certainly can put that in place and athletics killing it in that regard But it's definitely one of a bigger beer, you know phenomenon so which is gonna leave 8,500 breweries in the country, you know, not playing in this sector, you know, it's not going to be an option. So that's out as growth. We've talked a little bit about this, you know, previously, but what does craft stand for anymore? What's the narrative? If you're pitching a new drinker, which is very, very important to get this category back to growth, it ain't going to be in the backseat of you and me, Justin, which, you know, we write about how much, you know, alcohol we can take in a given week anymore. And I'm sure we're not alone. I still have a lot of friends like that as well, who in their early 40s, mid 40s who yep, that narrative is out there. So you're gonna get new people in the door. What's your pitch? You know, I think 2010s was a lot of fighting big beer. And you know, it's not just light beer. But now you can go anywhere and you get anything you want. It's not about that anymore. Access is plentiful. Any bar you go into, you have too many options, quite frankly, much less the grocery store, which is maybe part of the, as we said, the scans for craft. Grocery is really the problem. C-stores have been saving the category. So there's an overabundance of availability in crafts and groceries. So distribution is not your answer anymore and fighting that. So what did you say? It's a lot of high ABV stuff. That is where the growth is. So does craft equal IPA, which arguably it probably does at this point. or B equals the boozy thing you see at the convenience store, which is what you're seeing all the time in 19.2 ounce cans, which is fine, but I don't know, it just feels like the narrative, I've yet to see a new narrative emerge for a craft to get new people in the door, Justin.

[00:12:55] Zoe Licata: I think that's one of the issues that you're gonna face when you have 9,500 craft breweries. The story isn't the same for the Boston beers, the yinglings, I guess, on the far side. Even your top 50 when you're talking about Rheingeist or Allagash or Three Floyds or whoever it might be, as it is on the extreme other end of the spectrum where you're making 500, 1,000 barrels. 3000 barrels a year, you know, I feel like it's become so fragmented and there are so many different paths. But you know, the door is only open to some at this point, if you want to be like a distributing brewery of any size. And you know, you talk about what the narrative is. And I think that at the smaller end of the spectrum, it is going to have to be written by those breweries at a community level where you've really gotta know your connection to your local customer and you've got to give them reasons to go to your space. And you're gonna have to start thinking about things that are bringing in people who may have been in that mid-2010s craft revolution who, you know, I think you and I probably fit more into that category. who are living a different lifestyle than they were 10 years ago when they got into craft or whatever it is, because I got a kid now, I got a two-year-old, and how do I make that work? How do I justify going out to drink at a tap room if I've got to take care of this kid too? You've got to think about ways of connecting, whether it's family-friendly ideas or those sort of things.

[00:14:46] Justin Infante: Yeah, I mean, I think you mentioned you really nailed it on the head there, meaning something to people. You can't just open a brewery and expect business to walk in the door, which is not something everybody's come to that realization. But I mean, the infrastructure is still out there, but it's like, oh, we're, you know, we're going to check out the brewery tour and do that. That age is kind of done here. You have to mean something to the people around you, whether that be in your county, whether that be in your state, you know, it's what we drink around here, whatever it might be, where it's going to leave some people out in the cold per se, but you know, it's going to be a little bit what we're seeing this kind of culling of the number and people don't know what that right size is going to be. It's always, you know. Is it this? Is it this? And that number is still equalizing. But that has to kind of be a very important point, Justin, as you say, is you have to mean something to people now and figuring out what that is and what differentiates you from the other five or six breweries that are in town claiming the same thing. That tends to be it. It's evolved into a hospitality business. You are running a bar, essentially. This is a place you come Amanda Huang out at. The product is made on site. But you're creating an experience for people to come Amanda Huang out, bring your kid or bring whatever it's going to be. But that's the experience. It's not like, oh, we have the best beer in the world or whatever it might be. It's more, what are you selling me? You've entered the hospitality business, not the beer business in a traditional sense of distribution, cans, shelves, sales teams, things like that. So you've written a lot about this at Brewbound, certainly. Where's the growth? It's in breweries having 2, 3, 4, 5, 8 tap rooms now. It's not in entering new states anymore. That's not the new thing. That's where people are finding growth. So what is that? That is 100% hospitality. You are opening locations and in far flung locations to get your brand out there. So Welcome to the hospitality business, Craft Beer. You're better off hiring a professional in the hospitality business to your brewery team right now than you probably are a brewer in a sense or a new sales lead, I think, for many, many businesses out there at this point.

[00:16:39] Zoe Licata: And you mentioned the number of closures that we're seeing. And I mean, we're seeing a lot of it, whether it's, you know, Bagby in California, that's, you know, a 10-year run is coming to an end here at the end of this month. And then Greencheek's going to take over. And, you know, we were talking about it before. And I mean, anybody that's listened to this podcast has heard Jess, Zoe, and I talk about, you know, what do you do with these spaces? And a lot of times they just get, you know, we joke that they're hermit crabs. you know, another brewery just comes in and, and takes them over. And that's exactly what's happening in that case. But part of that narrative of what's happening with baggy is police coming do yeah. And they had to gut check and say, you know, what are we going to do? Are we going to re up? Are we going to keep fighting this fight? And I feel like that's a story that we're hearing over and over. And it's not like those rents aren't changing because they are. You can look at an example like Second Chance in San Diego, which closed its tap rooms. It seems to be continuing in distribution. But that was the case that, you know, I spoke to Virginia Morrison back at CBC last year, and she had mentioned that they were running into issues with their landlord jacking up the rent. And it is a narrative that we just keep hearing over and over again. So, I mean, I feel like that is becoming a more important part to have locked down, you know, if you are going to continue.

[00:18:07] Justin Infante: Yeah. And, you know, you mentioned the 10 year thing, a lot of leases are 10 years and we're at 2024 now. So that's back to 2014 when a lot of these things open. So yeah, what's the year ahead going to be? It's probably going to be, we're going to see a lot more of that narrative this year because of that, just that simple lease term negotiation that exists in the world. And yeah, you're going to re-up and yeah, this business made sense at that number. It doesn't make sense at the 2024 number. You know, you had mentioned it, I put the quote in my newsletter this past week too, that in CBC, the craft beer seller DC, You know, she's like, I ran the numbers and it made more sense to close than to stay open. You know, like I didn't see a future with the future of what the money was. And it's like, I think you're going to hear a lot more of that this year. So, you know, out of this, it's going to be sad to write about and sad to talk about. But this new era, whatever it's going to be will come out of this, whatever craft has been for the past 10 years is nowhere near what it's going to be in the next year or two years. And what that is, no one can has the answer for it. But they better start finding some new techniques to to draw out and make this sustainable for another 10 years to come.

[00:19:11] Zoe Licata: And a lot of that narrative, as you've pointed out, was driven by the Brewer's Association in the past. We've had the I Am a Craft Brewer video that is just something to watch in hindsight. And Seek the Seal and those sort of things. As you pointed out, there doesn't seem to be a narrative at this point. The David versus Goliath narrative is over. It's been over.

[00:19:40] Justin Infante: Goliath's been slayed in Bud Light. Like, you know, we talk about it's like, all right. Yeah, I think, you know, for different reasons, but certainly, yeah, that narrative is, yeah, you can't rely on that anymore at all.

[00:19:50] Zoe Licata: It's essentially a Kaiju fight. You know, you've got Mothra and Constellation Brands and Rodan and Molson Coors, and they're all just destroying every city together, you know, like they're doing their thing, you know, over on Apple TV or Apple Plus or whatever they call it now. Craft isn't in that fight. That's not the battle at this point. The real battle is, it's an internal one. If you're gonna fight the fight to continue on, what does it look like in the future? Can you make those connections in your local communities and can you iron things out with your landlord and make it work? For the smallest breweries, I think that's where it is. On the regional, it's a whole other, plane of existence.

[00:20:38] Justin Infante: Yeah, and that's where the drop in draft really hurts more there where you're just losing a lot of tap handles or you know, and that just a lot of math there to make up for where you have to figure out the new plan and it's like, all right, then sampling and things on those lines, these opportunities go away. I mean, I've, I've sent you photos from some B dubs around the country when I've been traveling and you know, it's the beer is maybe one fourth of the image on the menu anymore. And you know, this is that Buffalo Wild Wings, the home of draft and you had some great interviews this year as well with that team being like, We love beer, but we're not getting a lot of support or we're not, you know, and it's like, all right, this is a fixable thing. But you got to really put efforts into this. And this isn't just about make great beer anymore. It's really more about everything else around it, which is, you know, these are small businesses, Justin is like, all right, time to emphasize the business part of this and really, you know, make this what it is. And there's no one model for it. but you got to figure it out on your own and make your own terms out of it. So, you know, it's just, this is moment, these, again, these scan numbers come in, you look at it and it's like, it's just the same old number and on the same old story. And it's like, all right, when does this stop? And what is the bottom? You know, and I think that's a question you probably hear a lot of whether it brew talks, Brewbound live or whatever it might be is probably a pretty popular topic of conversation. So we shall see, hopefully, the year over years now, we have a whole new fresh comps Justin going in now. So, you know, which Bud Light will remind you come April, I'm sure. So, you know, we'll see if they keep going down. It's like, all right. As you said, the increases are done. The inflation narrative is over with. So it's a whole new fresh perspective on this, which we're going to get into in a few weeks with the January scan. So we shall see.

[00:22:10] Zoe Licata: And we'll see what, if anything, I guess, if any narrative develops coming out of the craft brewers conference in April in Las Vegas We'll definitely be looking out there or you know, we'll just be blowing all our money on the craps table I'm not gonna I'm not gonna put that boy wager on that.

[00:22:30] Justin Infante: But you know, yes some people we think we know who Justin will be choosing that option. Yeah

[00:22:37] Zoe Licata: Let's talk about another story that sort of dovetails nicely here, because if we're talking about, oh, there's a new reality out here and things are challenging, then let's talk about your home state of New Jersey, where they are just- I am filling New Jersey quotient this week for Jess, so yes, exactly, a mandate of the Rebound Podcast. We gotta have some form of Jersey on this podcast. So, crappers in the state of New Jersey are a signature away, the governor just needs to sign this from getting rid of all those ridiculous taproom restrictions, including having to take a tour of a brewery in order to drink in the taproom or any of those things. And here we are, the deadline is Tuesday at noon. So by the time you're listening to this, it's likely to have happened. This makes it even more important when you hear the number of breweries that are struggling out there to sort of throw them this bone.

[00:23:33] Justin Infante: Yeah. For a governor that has professed his admiration and love of the craft beer business and how important it is to the state and all this stuff that, you know, and he said this before, he took at least, what, three months to veto the previous, you know, this bill is a new bill in reaction to an old bill that he vetoed, you know, that did pass both houses. So, yeah, New Jersey keeps being New Jersey. We'll see if they can track Governor Phil Murphy down to get his John Hancock on this thing. But, you know, The state still has the larger liquor license reform issues that he was, you know, said the last bill did not address. This bill does not really, you know, that's a longstanding thing. It's gonna take a lot more than, which he knows a thing to solve. So, but yeah, this is, you know, this is basically, he said that the time to take a tour, this is being able to have a TV on with the, you know, with an NFL game on or something like that. You can't really, you know, legally do that. Having snacks in your tap room is not legal. Having non-alcoholic beverages that you don't make or, you know, so this is basic, basic things here that they're asking for. So we'll see, you know, Phil is not giving us much to have a lot of optimism about here, but the clock is ticking. So we shall see what that does. Well, we've heard whispers that it's actually going to happen.

[00:24:45] Zoe Licata: Okay, I will wait until

[00:24:47] Justin Infante: Yeah, the ink dries to be more definitive there. I actually want a photograph of the of the signature I think to be sure about this. So yeah, I hope so. I hope you're right. I hope what they're you know, I mean, it's just been they've been through a year of this crap again, and this would make a a year ahead where a lot of things are unknown, this will be a lot more security going into a year to make improvements. And then hold events and get revenue in the doors. Another thing too, you can't hold events and breweries and this allows that too. So again, how do we find more revenue here? A lot of people invested in some nice tap rooms where it's not just, the tanks are over here and here's the four taps and it's a table on some cardboard boxes anymore. It's like, no, they have these nice spaces and It'd be great to be able to use them, again, for our community to come in and make this a community place, which you think the governor of the state would be encouraging of. So I hope you're right. I'll leave it there. I hope you've taken a lot of short tours of New Jersey breweries. They're comical at this point. I mean, it's funny to see which breweries do what anymore. But yeah, the whole thing has just become a joke. And it's like, all right, it looks ridiculous across the board. So hopefully this is all a thing that is pre-2024 now. So we shall see.

[00:26:03] Zoe Licata: another story that's out there is till rate just reported its first earnings since the acquisition of the eight craft brands from anheuser-busch you know them all like there will be a quiz later shock top 10 barrel blue point breckenridge Widmer, Redhook, Highball, Square Mile Cider. I think I nailed them all. If not, you can email me and tell me. But coming out of that, Bevalk Division reported plus 117% revenue growth in Q2. Gross margin was down 13% because they're working on producing all these brands. But our friends over at Beer Business Daily, they're hosting their Beer Summit. And this Monday morning, they reported that A whole slew of new products that are coming from Tilray in short order. Among them are shock top lit hard tea, a non-carbonated 9% ABV hard tea that will be in glass bottles or eight ounce cans. It sounds like, unless I read that wrong, liquid love water. pub ice, which is an FMB in six packs of glass bottles and original screwdriver and fruit punch flavors. And then potentially and I didn't get a clear read on whether this is happening. They're talking about doing like mix 36 packs of some of their craft brands. So it'd be like Sweetwater, Montauk and Blue Point. I feel like, you know, there's a lot of deja vu in some of this, especially the mix pack, which I think that Craft Brew Alliance tried. way back when they were still Crap Brew Alliance. And that did not seem to work. And I think I've seen, I know I've seen other brands try that before, but sure, there's a lot going on here. And it's like the ink on the paper, I think was dry in September and it's only January. And I don't know, personally, I, I may be more cautious and I might want to see, you know, what I have and how my operations work and stuff like that. they're going full bore. How are you feeling about this as a noted chalk top lover?

[00:28:18] Justin Infante: Exactly. Why? Well, my question is, what is original pub eyes flavor? I don't know what that might be.

[00:28:25] Zoe Licata: So I think that it's an extension of the pub logger that 10 barrel does.

[00:28:31] Justin Infante: Oh, okay. Screwdriver and fruit punch. Is that, I don't know, whatever. And, and, and six pack glass bottle. I don't know if that's a new one for me, but look, Justin, you, you know, you and, and Jess and Zoe talk often a lot about this is focus, right? And, uh, having people going in 10 different directions, you rarely results in anything positive or lasting for that matter. It may give a small, you know, quarterly. spike to a sale or something like that, but you're not building anything of value. And as a sales thing, there's probably been some research, you'd hope to be some research or thought and put into this. I mean, I'm not getting any of these things you just mentioned, more or less to one who was buying 36 packs. I don't know that that is that a hot, the hot new packaging style that I'm not familiar with. That's yeah, exactly. Yeah, right. I know. It's just the drizzly pack. So I leave it really at that. I think I rarely it seems like focus is necessary. There's a reason why you've gotten all these brands. And again, what do they mean to anybody? What are these things? And you're going to win on price? So you know, what's the tactic on it? Are these now economy brands? We know what's the thing and having more doesn't seem like the consumer is like, you know what I don't have like no one said, I don't know that that's anybody's asking for that anymore. So and getting your message out is harder and harder to do and one message to a consumer much less, hey, here's the other five brands I have to sell and it taxes your sales reps as we you know, you've talked about, you know, you have how much time with with a given retailer to get your message across and you're coming in, you know, the last thing any retailer wants to see in 2024 is a sales rep walking in the door with nine products. There's no room as is. And if you're not an FNB or RTD, don't even talk to me about it. You know, so a new shock top T is how many more T's are there out there? I mean, I'll take the Arizona call or you make the shock top call. You'll probably take the Arizona hard T call, you know, if you're making room for one. So I don't know. This just seems like a lot of scattered thinking to me offhand.

[00:30:26] Zoe Licata: I want to see the execution of it. I want to be able to walk into the grocery store and see, you know, or the convenience store or wherever it is and see, you know, who's taking this. Right. I definitely want to see that. I bet OI is super excited. Like whoever is, you know, in the glass bottle business is got pumped. Yeah. A lot of bottles. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:30:47] Justin Infante: I am curious to see this in execution. And how much clout does Tilray have? I mean, they're not an existing beer industry player. This is an AB walking to the door with 30 years or 50 years of relationships in the door. You know, these, they haven't been in the business that long. So there's, I mean, they're inheriting sales teams who have that, but there's not a lot of corporate heft behind you to kind of not force things in, but maybe get a benefit of the doubt on some stuff, Justin.

[00:31:10] Zoe Licata: Yeah, that's the question that I've had as far as how they approach shock top in the future. And I guess this is one way of approaching it beyond Belgian wit, but just, you know, when that AB Salesforce is off it, when it's maybe not getting the benefit of category management, How does that shake out?

[00:31:32] Justin Infante: Yeah, and I will note in your your cicada 2023 data recap here, it was down 23.5% last year to just 12.1 million worth of sales for shock top a brand of what moved what 2 million cases at some I don't even know what the number was his peak, but I mean, it had a Super Bowl ad at some point, right? At some point, it's like, wow, $12 million of sales in the off prem in the year like, wow.

[00:31:56] Zoe Licata: That was something Ty Gilmore reminded me at Broodbound Live was that it had a Super Bowl ad, which brings us to our NFL talk of the week. And I mean, maybe maybe Tilray is coming with a shot top Super Bowl ad. You know, if you want to make a splash, but that's a marketing budget to blow right there. There's one way to do it. So you watched a lot of the games this weekend. I watched some of the games. I didn't get to see everything. It cuts into my wrestling time. But From what you saw, did anything really stand out to you as far as alcohol advertising went?

[00:32:33] Justin Infante: Yeah, and I really didn't think about that. We're recording here. I said on Monday, you know, this is two more games to go tonight for the NFL. While it's super wild car weekend, excuse me. I was just thinking, I'm like, I can't recall seeing anything. I'm sure there was maybe the Miller Lite 96 calorie convenience store ad where they, you know, the guys, the thing shaved in his head or something like that. I don't recall seeing the Bud Light Peyton and Emmett Smith ad or any Bud Light again, could have been there. I'm just don't recall seeing it. maybe there was a Modelo ad, I couldn't even tell you. It's a kind of a combination, Justin, of just where the state of beer advertising is at. This used to be fun. This used to be great. We'd look forward to, you know, whatever, some humor, and I understand it's gone back to emphasizing the on-premise, which has been smart, and you know, there's been some smart advertising out there, but just to think about watching, having watched four football games, and I don't recall, I can tell you, you know, Progressive ads I can tell you all the other things that I saw so even if they were on there They weren't in high volume certainly so it's like you weren't even getting you know If it was it was one or two ad buys in a game or something like that So I remember it as much as say two maybe three years ago Bud Light Platinum was the it was the beer all over the place remember remember that beer there's not even any of that going on anymore. So it's just this really interesting state of beer advertising or lack of it that just dawned on me. I'm like, Yeah, I really mean, I'll watch the games tonight with maybe a bit of a keener eye now. But I mean, it's makes me sad Justin a little bit. I'm like, this used to be kind of a fun thing to talk about. And I don't know anymore.

[00:34:01] Zoe Licata: The only beer related thing that I saw was a couple of bush light cans that had exploded at the Kansas City Chiefs game, the cold. Yeah. So like they're in the cup holders. I imagine that they paid like 20 bucks a beer just to have them like blow up turned into slushies or whatever. Yeah. So that's the only like beer thing that I remember from seeing the weekend. And that was like an NFL meme.

[00:34:29] Justin Infante: And there's such a great, I mean, I'm just thinking out loud here for a second, a great opportunity because we've talked about, you know, the Kansas city game was what the fourth coldest ever. I think the Buffalo game was postponed for snow. It's certainly a budget. What was the weather report in Buffalo today that you had there?

[00:34:42] Zoe Licata: It's better than where I am. Well, at least from like a temperature, it was 20 degrees feels like seven flurries, but I'm in zero degree whether it was I think negative 15 when I woke up Wow, and it feels like negative 19 right now, even though we've made it to zero Yeah. All right.

[00:35:03] Justin Infante: Well, thankfully these coasts were not as bad here, but it would be great to have cameras out and doing like people who are tailgating with beer. Like the, no matter what the diehard, you know, like, are you sure about that?

[00:35:14] Zoe Licata: Because right now, if you go to Buffalo, can you even like light a table on fire?

[00:35:19] Justin Infante: There may be some, maybe some fire hazards going on. So yes. And the tailgating that that is correct. But I just feel like that would be an of them up to see an ad next weekend or in the super bowl, this dedication to, you know, and you're not doing it with, RTDs, you're not doing it with, you know, booze, or liquor, you're doing it with beer, like, just this kind of like this real dedication to the fan. I'm like, all right, that's something fun that gets at the culture of what's going on here and appeals to the demographic watching football, you know, it's like, all right, you're the you know, prime audience here. It's like, no matter what, I'm drinking my Miller Lite in the tailgate. I don't care if it's, you know, 20 degrees below, blah, blah, blah. It's or your Bush light or whatever it might be. The diehard fans, a diehard love and affinity for their beer, their brand, you know, whatever it might be. Anyway, I'm just, it just seems like there's nothing like this going on at all. Go talk to Bill's mafia.

[00:36:07] Zoe Licata: Yeah, exactly. Right. Give them those beers before they jump on the flaming table. Like it's, you know, ECW in 1995. Let's bring the wrestling crowd in.

[00:36:17] Justin Infante: Exactly. We could, we can loop it all together, but we are, uh, we're a month out from the, uh, the big game, Justin. So we'll see who, what's, you know, we haven't heard those stories. Haven't trickled out yet in terms of who's doing what, but keep an eye on that for sure. This year. It's coming sooner or later. Yes.

[00:36:32] Zoe Licata: Let's wrap this up with another round or tabbing out and our friends at Lawson's finest liquids are putting out Beach Party IPA. It is 3.8%. I'm going to say, Sean, that I already know the answer to this, but are you buying another round of Beach Party in January or you tabbing out?

[00:36:54] Justin Infante: Look, I don't want to be old man yells at cloud here, but look, as you and I are both fans of lower ABV beers, I'm not, I want to clarify that I'm happy to see, you know, a major craft brand putting out a, you know, a lower ABV offering here. And I guess it's a January 1st quarter. But they're calling it an IPA. It's 3.8%. I mean, this is Lawson's, one of the, you know, esteemed, we care about craft brands out there, you know, and the BJCP guidelines, I checked my app this morning, I'm like, 5.5% to 7.5% for American IPA. You're at 3.8%. That is not an IPA. Your style is off. That's not acceptable. Again, what does craft mean, Justin? This is back to this. They're just at this point slapping things on things and hoping it sells. And I get it, the consumer only drinks IP now, all these reasons. I'm like, but then you stand for nothing. You know, if you're not maintaining this kind of thing, then what are you even doing? unsuccessful at not going on a rant here, but and also Beach Party and first quarter January. You know, this is a great beach beer. Why am I? Why is it? You know, I guess it's a low alcohol January thing. I just it's nothing's adding up here for me, Justin. I'm I'm tabbing out. Wow. Sorry, Sean.

[00:38:05] Zoe Licata: I know you're from New Jersey, but it is what it is, man. I'm sorry. As someone who loves the idea of low alcohol beers, I'm going to tab in on it just because I want it like Give me all your low alcohol beers. I will say, I imagine it had to have been, but you know, like just the bread, the branding principle alone. Yeah. I totally understand where you're coming from. I just want to keep the Beach Party going January through. December. Yeah.

[00:38:35] Justin Infante: And you're how, how cold was it there today? You have to be, maybe it'd be a Beach Party in your mind, Justin. Maybe that's where that's, that's where you go.

[00:38:41] Zoe Licata: That's the only place there's a Beach Party right now, because it is, I believe negative 13. If I look, it's about right. Yeah. Well with that, I think we'll call it a show. Thanks for stopping by Sean. Thanks for hanging out with me in place of Jess and Zoe can't be replaced, but clearly you're the best consolation prize that I have.

[00:39:01] Justin Infante: I think I got voted that in high school. So that that that tracks still good for me.

[00:39:07] Zoe Licata: Well, thanks to Jess and Zoe for hitting the road, even though I couldn't join them because I was in the middle of a blizzard. We will be back next week. Thanks for listening.