Brewbound Podcast: Chula Vista Founder Tim Parker on How Meditation Can Improve Your Business

[00:00:00] Justin Kendall: Next on the Brewbound Podcast, how business owners can find balance and protect their mental health. Hello and welcome to the Brewbound Podcast. I'm Justin Kendall.

[00:00:20] Jessica Infante: I'm Jessica Infante. And I'm Zoe Licata.

[00:00:23] Justin Kendall: And as I mentioned at the top, this week we are going to talk about finding balance and mental health. Jess and Zoe are going to speak with Tim Parker from Chula Vista Brewery. Give us a little bit of a preview of what's to come here.

[00:00:39] Chula Vista: We had a great chat with Tim. Tim joined us during the National Beer Wholesalers Association's annual convention and product showcase in San Diego. Tim, a longtime friend of Brew Bound. came by to talk about a lot of things, but we've really talked a good deal about his meditation practice. Both him and his wife and co-owner, Dolly, are both big on the meditation bandwagon, and it was really interesting to hear about.

[00:01:08] Jessica Infante: Yeah, it was kind of an unexpected conversation. Like we didn't really go into it with that planned. And it was, it was nice, especially I think it was our last interview that we did at MBWA. So we were all kind of feeling it. And even just listening to Tim's voice is pretty relaxing. So it's a pleasant listening experience, but also just a great conversation. And we've talked about it sometimes in the past. about exhaustion in this industry and stuff, but this was just some, some practical takeaways of like keeping that balance. And yeah, it was really a very pleasant conversation.

[00:01:43] Chula Vista: Zoe, you hit the nail on the head. Tim's voice is just delightful. I could talk to him all day.

[00:01:48] Jessica Infante: He's meant to like have a podcast or be on the radio or something. It's just, it fits very well.

[00:01:54] Chula Vista: I feel like he could narrate a meditation app. Oh, absolutely. And like, I feel like you hear meditation all the time and you don't really like it was really helpful to talk to somebody who actually does it about like the nuts and bolts of how it works.

[00:02:07] Jessica Infante: He broke the expectation of like, oh, you're supposed to just think of nothing. It was more, okay, you were sitting there and you recognize there are thoughts coming through your brain and you just make a point of visualizing them just flowing through and going away. I didn't really understand. I was under the impression that meditation was just trying to make your mind completely blank. And he was like, no, it's... It's recognizing you have a lot going on in your head and just kind of letting it move through you. And yeah, it was very helpful. Mm hmm.

[00:02:42] Justin Kendall: It was great. I'm looking forward to this. I haven't even listened to this yet, so I'm excited to hear this full episode. So stay tuned for that. Also, Tim was incredibly stylish. Oh, my God. He looked phenomenal. We loved him. We've also got Brewbound Live coming up December 11th and 12th in Marina Del Rey, California. Program is coming together. We've got a lot of people who have already purchased tickets. Tickets are available now. The early registration deadline is this Friday, so that's... When discounted tickets come to a close, what you're getting for the prize, I think is a value, to be honest. And we're going to have networking sessions, parties, retailer one-to-ones. You're going to get insights from NIQ, three-tier beverages, Foresight Factory, Bump Williams Consulting. We'll have strategy sessions with Allagash Brewing, New Belgium, Beatbox, Suntory, Holidayly, Full Circle Brewing, Climbing Kites, Indeed Brewing. You'll get advice from distributors, Gulf Distributing, Dahl Distributing, Markstein Sales, so much more. That's only a portion of the speakers. We'll put out the full schedule very soon on the site. So you'll be able to see that, but early registration deadline is this Friday. So get those tickets.

[00:04:02] Jessica Infante: It's well worth it. I mean, we have extra stuff this year that we haven't had before. We have those one to one meetings with both some retailers and some wholesalers. Those are kind of a first come first serve and they have to approve of everything. So if you want to sign up for those, definitely get on that. And we have talked so many times on this podcast about like, collaborations or business advancements or things that have happened because of conversations at Brew Bad Live. We're not just blowing smoke here. There's some actual great benefits that come out of this, not just with stage content, but with the people you get to interact with and everything. It's pretty cool.

[00:04:39] Justin Kendall: Couldn't have said it better. Let's dive into the news, and this is going to be a Jess and Fante heavy news section of the show. Oh, God. Apologies in advance. We're going to start with Dorchester Brewing in Boston, which had a dual business model of contract brewing and also brewing its own product. It's pulling back on that contract brewing portion to focus on its own beer business.

[00:05:05] Chula Vista: Yeah, Dorchester announced this last week, and this has always been, they've always had this dual business model, which was really, I thought, super interesting when they launched in 2016. And I'm not gonna lie, I probably didn't even really understand it back then. But they've always done what they call partner brewing. They have brewed beer for some of the buzziest brands in the world, like Omnipolo, Evil Twin, Stillwater, they were doing brewing for Lone Pine. you know, they know how to do it. And they've just decided that the margins are really tough. It's not really working out for them anymore. So they are going to wind down their partner brewing operations like the end of the year. Had a really nice chat with CEO and co-founder Matt Malloy, who like, just like a genuine and kind and thoughtful person. Like, I really enjoy talking to Matt and He was just telling me that, you know, they've never really raised their rates. They haven't raised their partner brewing rates in years. And when they tried to, because the cost of many things went up, they got some pushback. A lot of their partners were saying that they were getting crunched on the other end by their distributors. And I think they just kind of realized there's more money in it for them and it will make the business healthier and more profitable to focus on their own brand. So that's what they're going to be doing. And they actually have really found success. Like the beers that they brew, sell, and distribute under the Dorchester brand, they're up 5% year over year. They distribute within Massachusetts through Craft Collective, but they also have a really popular tap room in the Dorchester neighborhood of Boston, which if you are not from the area is the home of the Wahlbergs. Not that that's relevant here, but. That is their hood. Matt said they doing a little bit of everything right now. They've got a farmer winery license, which allows them to sell wine and cider and slushies. And they brew seltzers. And he said, scaling back on brewing for other people, frees them up to focus more on their own innovation. Unfortunately, it does mean they have to say goodbye to more than 10 employees. He did not give me a number because he said he didn't want to reduce them to a number, which I thought was very thoughtful. But everybody's got three months worth of notice. He says they're going to take care of them when all of this is said and done. But he had glowing things to say about the staff. You can find it all in our story at Brewbound.com. He said these brewery employees from brewers to sellers to packaging people, all of them are whip smart, innovative, know how to think on their feet, and they've brewed a ton of different styles of beer. So they've really seen it all.

[00:07:38] Justin Kendall: The thing that stands out to me about this too is that a lot of breweries are looking to fill up their excess capacity by taking on contract. And here you have a brewery that's been doing this since 2016 who is saying we're going in the opposite direction.

[00:07:54] Chula Vista: Yeah, we talked about that. And that's exactly what I said. I was like, you know, like Matt, I feel like you're zigging when everyone's zagging because everybody's starting to do this now. And he told me like, yeah, everybody is starting to do it, but I would really caution everybody to really look at the numbers, make sure you understand how much it costs to do this. make sure you're charging an appropriate rate so that you can still make money and you're not gonna lose money brewing other people's beer, but just go in eyes wide open, really painfully aware of how much everything costs these days. Cause he said he sees other breweries try to do it and they'll do it for one or two. But really like the way to make sure that this is working best for you is to be like a finely tuned machine that can brew for 14 or 15 different partners at one time. and you need to make sure that you're delivering according to a schedule, you meet all your deadlines, like it's really like a very, very intricate operation.

[00:08:48] Jessica Infante: It also stood out to me that when Matt told you they hadn't really raised their rates at all, even with the increase in costs of doing that, and partners were still being like, we're not sure we can do this ourselves. There might even be people out there who have these new partnerships that could possibly not be charging anywhere near what they should be, and they might have a difficult time charging for the amount they probably should be. I have a feeling we might see some issues around that in the future with all these new partnerships happening.

[00:09:20] Chula Vista: Yeah. So have you ever been to Dorchester?

[00:09:22] Jessica Infante: No. I weirdly don't go out to as many, once they're not in the immediate downtown Boston area, I get kind of lazy.

[00:09:31] Chula Vista: You remember that day that you and I just like went to a bunch of breweries. We should do that again.

[00:09:34] Jessica Infante: Yeah. Our like mini holiday crawl.

[00:09:38] Chula Vista: Oh yeah.

[00:09:39] Jessica Infante: That was fun.

[00:09:40] Chula Vista: But yeah, I mean, Dorchester is great. They've got a great onsite food partner does barbecue. It's really, I guess that doesn't matter to you because you don't eat animals, but really good stuff. And Matt said they've been really focusing on their event business. So, you know, they're pulling all the levers, just not this one.

[00:09:59] Justin Kendall: Let's get into another story that's up at Brewbound.com and that's stories, I should say, and that's Boulevard and Duval USA's 2025 plans. So take us through sort of the top level here, because it sounds like they're hitting some of the popular areas, of course, like non-alcoholic, but also focus areas are shifting for the Boulevard Brewing.

[00:10:23] Chula Vista: Yeah. Yeah. So the Doobly USA crew always really spends their time on and puts together a really involved high production value wholesaler summit video that you can tell they have a lot of fun doing it. There's always like spoofs of different like TV shows and movies and whatever. This year was no different. You guys are at GABF and I watched this for two hours at home. It was a lot, a lot of information.

[00:10:49] Justin Kendall: Yeah. The spoof. We gotta know the spoof.

[00:10:53] Chula Vista: Oh, there's so many. So it opens, the opening spoof is all of the leaders like soprano style in like the back room at Satrials. And I don't mean to brag, but I have literally been there. I was on the set for like the first day of filming of the last season of Sopranos. I got to see Satrials. It was very cool. My dad was a lawyer and he took on like some entertainment clients, kind of. And when you're a quote-unquote entertainment lawyer in North Jersey, you get the Sopranos. That's like kind of it. Of course. Yeah. He was Frank Vincent's lawyer, like for decades, like Frank Vincent's like regular lawyer. And then Frank Vincent got on the Sopranos. So super cool. I enjoyed watching the Boulevard Brewing attempt to be my people, North Jersey Italians. And that was how it starts. And they're trying to figure out what the theme of the video is going to be. And they never really land on one. Then I'm pretty sure they did like the famous fade to black at the end without deciding. I could have all of this wrong, but I'm pretty sure this is how this two hour video odyssey started.

[00:12:00] Justin Kendall: I thought you were going to tell us that they killed off Bobby Dykstra.

[00:12:04] Chula Vista: We don't know. We'll never know. I don't think I saw Onion Rings.

[00:12:10] Justin Kendall: I don't remember if they played Journey. I was going to say, did they play Don't Stop Believin'?

[00:12:15] Chula Vista: They must have, but also that must be expensive.

[00:12:20] Justin Kendall: Just as long as it doesn't hit the internet and it gets flagged, maybe.

[00:12:24] Chula Vista: Yeah, that is true. We have had that particular problem before. Not with Journey. So the Boulevard video opens with Star Trek, which is perfectly on brand for Space Camper. Space Camper is their IPA family launched a few years ago, doing great double digit growth. They this year announced to wholesalers that this is their number one priority, which was interesting to me because it's not in their full footprint. Boulevard kind of stretches pretty far and wide, but they really do kind of keep Space Camper to a fairly tight Midwest circle with a few pockets on the West Coast. Three new beers for the Space Camper family this year. The one that got a lot of the shine was Juice Nova Super Stellar IPA. 9% ABV plays in that juicy hazy profile. They didn't really have anything there at first, so this is going to be huge for them. 12 ounce can, six packs and on draft. Not in 19.2 ounce cans, which was interesting to me, but maybe that will be next year's continuation. On the other end of the ABV spectrum, they've got Space Camper non-ALK, which is going to launch in March in 12-ounce can six-packs. And then right in between the two, there's Chill Break Endless IPA at 5% ABV, also coming in March in 12-ounce can six-packs. The really interesting to me here was that they were telling wholesalers that Space Camper is now their number one priority for the brand, super, super important. And that makes sense. Space Camper NA is going to be their third non-alcoholic offering. They've got Flying Start IPA and Lemon Wheat Non-Alc, which was last year's big new innovation. They're doing a little bit of DTC, but not much. They really are focusing on their network. Elsewhere in the Boulevard family with a much tighter footprint is Boulevard Light. And we've all heard a lot of ABPs this year. Craft light beer is the thing. And I had a really nice conversation with Bobby Dykstra and Allie Bush, who head up marketing at Boulevard, about this. And I just kind of asked them why now? And they really walked me through like, this has been a long time coming and an evolution of various different easy drinking beers, primarily lagers. They've had KC Pills. They've done Boulevard 89. They also dabbled with a 100 calorie version of their unfiltered wheat. And that didn't really sell well, so they discontinued it after like eight months or so. And now the time is right, they think, for Boulevard Light, because they think craft drinkers are coming around to the idea that light beer isn't a dirty word anymore. So I think that's got a lot to do with why we're seeing a lot of this this year. But this is gonna be primarily Kansas City, Missouri, and Kansas, and that's really, they wanna keep it tight on that. I wouldn't be surprised if it goes well, we see more of it next year.

[00:15:11] Justin Kendall: I like the branding. I like the smokestack on the packaging and a big call out there on the 12 pack for 89 calories.

[00:15:20] Chula Vista: Yeah. I mean, this is your former local brewery. So would you have drunk this if it was available when you were living in Kansas City?

[00:15:27] Justin Kendall: I would have given it a shot. I mean, my introduction to craft was Boulevard. Coming of age in the early 2000s and your introduction is Boulevard Wheat, Boulevard Pale Ale, that sort of thing in this area. I mean, that was the big craft. So yeah, I'm sure if I was still there, I would pick this up. And I like the 89 calorie call out is the year the brewery was founded.

[00:15:55] Chula Vista: Hmm. Look at that. Cool. Yeah. I mean, that's a, I want to say it's a 4% ABV beer. Makes a lot of sense. Other stuff they have going on, a new barrel aged beer called Wood Baron, 8.2% ABV available year round. They're partnering with Whitman's, like the chocolate sampler people on this. Could be tasty.

[00:16:15] Justin Kendall: Tank seven.

[00:16:16] Chula Vista: Tank 7. Yeah, they're re-kind of working the approach to Tank 7 this year. Instead of having a couple things in the Tank 7 family that are available year round, Tank 7 will of course still be out year round and then it's, you know, it's co-pilots on shelves will cycle in and out. So Dank 7, their Belgian IPA, is going to be a limited time offering. Last year it got promoted to year round, but now they're They're re-imagining that and they also will have Tropical Tank 7. And then they will do a variety pack. The Jackpot Mix pack will be back in the fall, which is like a Take 7 fam variety pack. Yeah, I feel like we kept it pretty high on that one. Then Quirk, which is their Beyond Beer family. is really kind of an anomaly in the hard shelter world where most other hard shelters are not doing as well. Quirk is, and they've really been able to tap into something locally that makes them a leader in the Midwest, which is very cool. Quirk is entering the hard tea fray in 2025 with two different offerings here. They've got lemonade tea, which is going to be the standalone flavor, and then there will be a variety pack of hard teas. They are asking this to be merchandised with hard tea, not with hard seltzer, even though it is formulated like a hard seltzer and not like a tea. The base is green tea, which is a good differentiator from other hard teas, which aren't. Real fruit juice, lightly carbonated. Quirk hard lemonade tea is going to be 12-ounce can, 12 packs, 19.2-ounce singles. And then that 12-pack variety pack, which also has peach tea, pomegranate tea, different, and raspberry tea.

[00:18:05] Jessica Infante: Yeah, they got a lot going on. So much.

[00:18:09] Chula Vista: So much going on.

[00:18:09] Jessica Infante: Their product calendar for next year is kind of wild to look at. And it's interesting to see the very different approaches some people have to next year. Like we just heard like Heineken's plans are basically the exact opposite. They are being very, very focused and only doing a few things.

[00:18:28] Chula Vista: Yeah, no new friends for Heineken. Yeah, Quirk is keeping their four year-round variety packs out, but they're different themes. Their top seller is berry and botanical. That's number one priority for the brand. Hard tea, though, lemonade tea is their number one priority in terms of securing new distribution, but I think they're happy with the distribution that berry and botanical has. They've also got the whip mix pack, which is like Whipped cream plus fruit flavors. Obviously, it's like a liquid seltzer. It's not like actually whipped cream.

[00:19:02] Jessica Infante: It's not like that Nicki Minaj vodka whips that came out a couple of years ago.

[00:19:07] Chula Vista: No, but like also hard whipped cream. Like I remember buying this when I was like newly 21 for like hot chocolate at Christmas. Hopefully the technology has improved to make it not taste like hair mousse. What are their other packs? The Fountain Fizz pack, which is like old timey soda shop flavors, but with like interesting twists, like lemon, thyme, limeade. That sounds delicious. Clementine, cream pop, not part of the whip pack though. And the other thing that they do that kind of bucks convention under the Quirk fam is Quirk Tales, which they launched this last year. It's their FMB family that is inspired by cocktail flavors. The new innovation for Quirk Tales this year is a variety pack, but Quirk Tales are in glass bottles. Wild, clear glass bottles. Quite a move.

[00:20:08] Justin Kendall: Yeah, quite a move. If I'm at Geloso, I'm like, what's going on? Everything's coming up tails at the moment because like quirk tails, you got claw tails, all kinds of tails.

[00:20:20] Jessica Infante: Club tails or something.

[00:20:22] Justin Kendall: That's theirs, right?

[00:20:24] Chula Vista: Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, look, when the term is cocktail, I think nobody can really own the tails. Yeah.

[00:20:32] Justin Kendall: Well, it is, I don't want to use the word interesting, but it is, it is to see that there are still hard seltzer brands out there other than White Cloth that are carving out a niche. You can probably count them on your hand. It's like Quirk and Happy Dad. And after that, you're the deepest in the data at this point, Zoe. Anybody else standing out to you?

[00:20:56] Jessica Infante: Not really. I mean, we just got that new bed bites report that had truly with some really rough numbers for Q3, at least in C stores. So like White Claws has a huge chunk of share now at this point.

[00:21:12] Chula Vista: I wish we could understand what makes this happen. I'm sure everybody out there also wishes they understood what makes a brand succeed and what makes a brand fail. Because it can feel almost kind of arbitrary at this point. And I asked Allie Bush this, why is Quirk succeeding? And she said, they've always focused on flavor and quality where they were a little late to the seltzer game, but where other seltzers were using flavor compounds that you get from flavor houses, they were always using real fruit juice. And they led in that and other brands had to come around to it, you know, later on.

[00:21:50] Justin Kendall: What was it, like, last year or two years ago that they had the quirk boat? Go down to the Lake of the Ozarks and have the quirk boat?

[00:21:58] Chula Vista: Oh, I don't know.

[00:22:00] Justin Kendall: Yeah, I remember writing this story. So it's been a while, but they really leaned into, like, party culture there. Let's wrap up a little bit. There's a Guardian story out about the term craft beer and how UK brewers are just trying to get away from that and use the term indie brewer. And there's YouGov research that they were leaning on. saying consumers really didn't know, you know? And this felt a lot like deja vu to me because it's like the same old argument of, well, they don't know that they're owned by Heineken or AB or Asahi or whoever it may be. And it's like, well, yeah, we've already been through this here with the independent seal and all the buyouts and now all the divestments and everything in between. And here's what, Andy Slay from the Society of Independent Brewers and Associates said, quote, for lots of breweries across the UK, independent has become a lot more valuable and relevant to what they do than craft, the meaning of which has been blurred by macro ownership of craft beer brands. So I thought it was interesting that this popped up. here in the year of our lord taylor swift 2024 that they're going through this and i'm sure they've been going through this for a while but it's obviously a different market you can own pubs there you can do all that stuff but just complete deja vu of like, didn't we just live this in the mid 2010s?

[00:23:45] Chula Vista: This is like peak 2017 to me. But yeah, I mean, they're, for lack of a better word, their craft beer industry is, I don't know, a decade-ish behind ours in terms of like how developed it is. And I don't know that it ever would reach the same degree that we have in the US. Yeah, it's fun to watch them go through this right now.

[00:24:06] Justin Kendall: Let me throw this out to you both. Do you think that the word craft has been devalued in the United States? Yeah. I feel like the word craft is everywhere.

[00:24:16] Chula Vista: Right. I always like keep an eye out for it in non-beer places. You know, like I remember the, uh, when I used to take the train to Boston for work, the McDonald's at the train station had like some promo for like crafted burgers. And it's like this, pack it up and go home. Everybody like this word doesn't mean anything anymore.

[00:24:34] Jessica Infante: Yeah. I mean, in the beer sense, we don't even really know what it means. We talk about it all the time about like, should definitions be changed or not? Because there's not really a concrete definition that fits the idea of what craft is anymore. So people still use it all the time, like as a positive adjective, I guess, but it's not like, oh my gosh, they're a craft.

[00:25:04] Chula Vista: Amazing. Yeah. And when you got to think about who is setting the definitions too. Yeah. Because the Brewers Association obviously has its own definition of what they consider craft. But the other thing is that like the major data providers in the space, NIQ and Cercana also have what they call craft, which is not what the BA says is craft. And then it gets really hard, you know, like, so you just spent a lot of time with Cercana's most recent report. Their top 30 craft brands are what?

[00:25:33] Jessica Infante: A lot of Anheuser-Busch, Molson Coors, I mean, the Crabton of New Belgium, which people debate of whether that's craft or not anymore. And there's a small handful of folks that are like the true, what would fit probably this UK definition of independent craft on that list.

[00:25:51] Chula Vista: Yeah. I mean, Justin, you point out the BA was on this independent kick in like, I think 2017 is when the seal came out.

[00:25:57] Justin Kendall: I can't even remember, but yeah, I remember when this deal came out. And I mean, this is just recency bias, and I may have missed it, but I don't recall seeing it at the Great American Beer Festival. And I think something like this is an interesting case study of history because Here we are at sort of an inflection point for the Brewers Association that's going through a lot of leadership change. We'll have a new CEO of the Brewers Association. soon-ish, I would imagine, and then, you know, Bob Pease will retire and go off into the sunset at the end of June 2025. You've got new leadership of all the events at the Brewers Association. We are coming out of the biggest consumer-focused event that the organization has, and it is one where beer took a backseat to experiences and everything else. And it wasn't the only thing being served at this party.

[00:27:04] Jessica Infante: Yeah. I mean, I still saw a guy walking around with his untapped app out. So there's still a few folks going there for those very specific craft breweries. But it was definitely not on the forefront of the majority of attendees' minds, I don't think.

[00:27:19] Justin Kendall: Was one of his children recording him for a TikTok?

[00:27:23] Jessica Infante: No, no.

[00:27:25] Chula Vista: I think he was flying solo. Yeah. I mean, the word independent too is kind of tough. It means different things to different people. The year The Seal came out, you guys went to the Boston Beer Media Brunch in 2017. There was like a panel discussion about the importance of independence in craft beer. And obviously Jim Cook was part of it. And there was a few other, you know, brewery owners and somebody from the BA. And the conversation really took a turn that basically equated independent and local, which is not in the W column for Sam Adams, you know? So the other thing is like, obviously Boston Beer and, you know, Sam and Dogfish Head are part of the BA. but that's a publicly traded company. So some people might consider that not independent because, you know, they've got, I mean, we don't need to talk about their corporate setup because it's a little different, but you know, when you go through that list of tops are kind of crap, like who really would count under like the truest definition of the word independent?

[00:28:29] Justin Kendall: I was talking to somebody the other day that was a non-alcoholic beer brewer that was saying, you know, we may be the truly independent non-alcoholic beer brand. And I mean, it's just like, we are going into the niche of the niche of the niche of the niche if we're drilling down this far.

[00:28:50] Jessica Infante: If we're going solely true, true independent, there might only be two on the top 30 list. It'd be Sierra Nevada and Georgetown. Everyone else has some sort of parent. Wow.

[00:29:10] SPEAKER_??: Wow. Wow.

[00:29:10] Justin Kendall: Wow. Well, on that note, now that you need some ASMR and Yes. Something relaxing to listen to. Let's dive into Jess and Zoe's interview with Tim Parker from Chula Vista Brewery.

[00:29:29] Chula Vista: Hi, and welcome back to the Brewbound Podcast. We are for the last time recording live in the Brewbound Podcast on location studio here in beautiful San Diego, California. We are here for the National Beer Wholesalers Association's annual convention and new products showcase. And joining us, we save the very best for last, dear friend of the pod, Tim Parker, co-founder of Chula Vista Brewing right here in San Diego. Tim.

[00:29:54] Tim Parker: How are you? Thank you for having me. I'm good.

[00:29:56] Chula Vista: I'm so glad you're here. Yeah. So to level set for everybody out there, the last time we caught up with you was just over two years ago. You were gracious enough to join us for a Brew Talks event in Minneapolis during Craft Brewers Conference. And we talked a lot about different programs that were helping people get their start in the industry. And you were there as a past recipient of the Samuel Adams Brewing the American Dream sponsorship program experience, all those good things. But yeah, you guys were just about to open a second location, right? Correct. And you have?

[00:30:30] Tim Parker: Yeah, we have. Yes.

[00:30:31] Chula Vista: Yeah. I mean, how's that going? What's like?

[00:30:34] Tim Parker: It's been going good. I mean, we're in San Diego, so trying to grow when, you know, the market is shrinking is a challenge. But we've been managing, been able to do it. And we basically, the key to us, we had a great relationship with some big hotels and that kind of helped us out big time.

[00:30:53] Chula Vista: That's really, I feel like the hotel channel doesn't come up a lot in craft beer. So what made you try to unlock growth that way?

[00:31:03] Tim Parker: Well, it fell in my lap. Isn't it nice when that happens? Right. So I'm fortunate enough to be here. Unfortunately, I don't know which way you want to look at it. The only black ombre in San Diego. And then of that, you only got, my wife is Mexican, so you only got two Mexican ombres in San Diego. And so a lot of big chains has been looking for diversity on their shelves. And we were the only ones who was able to do that of the two. And so we was able to fill in that void with a lot of the, you know, actually we in a lot of heights actually, hotels and a few other hotels downtown. And then we was able to get on the smaller shelves like Trader Joe's and Barron's Markets. And then we self-distribute so we don't have to pay 30% to someone else. So we were just able to fill that void in San Diego and it kind of worked out and helped us grow.

[00:32:00] Jessica Infante: To set the scene here, I feel like we know about San Diego beer scene a little bit from the past, but what does it look like right now? What is the environment like for craft beer in San Diego?

[00:32:13] Tim Parker: It's shrinking, actually. It's shrinking. So, I mean, a year ago, it was probably averaging very close to 200. Right now we're probably down to about 150 and still counting on the downward side. And then a lot of big breweries is going back to smaller. So you got like Mission Brewery just went down to like a smaller system like a 5, 10 barrel from a 30 barrel. And then you got other big breweries that's coming in and buying them out like Athletic and stuff. There is some growth, but it's not really in, I would say, traditional beer. It's more in like N.A. or seltzers or some alternative thing. It's buying out the breweries. So that brewery is never really the same again. So you're seeing that a lot in San Diego right now. So you got to remember, San Diego is not that big, you know, and to have over 200 breweries is a lot. So every neighborhood, yeah, every neighborhood. The good thing, every neighborhood still has its own brewery, which I think is important. That make us so unique that every neighborhood, no matter where you go, you have that brewery for that area, you know, supporting that area.

[00:33:26] Chula Vista: And so Beyond Beer obviously has a huge impact on things. Is this something that you guys at Chula Vista have looked into at all?

[00:33:34] Tim Parker: Like what?

[00:33:34] Chula Vista: Like, I don't know, like RTDs or hard seltzers?

[00:33:38] Tim Parker: Actually, yeah, we do have seltzers. We have. We actually, I really don't want to say what we're doing with the seltzer right now. But it's really, really bomb. And it's not on the shelves, that flavor that we came up with. And so we want to try to introduce this new flavor to the shelves and just see what happens. But we just do whatever the market give us. So I think that's the key to success is being able to flex and change and not get stuck. So much in in your ways, you know, well I did this and it worked well when it doesn't work you gotta you guys gotta move So I'm not really hardcore said hey, I got to do it this way.

[00:34:22] Jessica Infante: Oh, that's it You know if the market change the market change and I just move with it As just mentioned the last time we talked to you you were working on the second location What is the thing that you're looking forward to right now? Is there anything that you have in the front view?

[00:34:36] SPEAKER_??: I

[00:34:36] Tim Parker: Well, I don't think you realize you walked into a crazy question. So a lot of people don't know Bruin actually began with women. Wine and any type of spirit mainly was women. And then, you know, not to get religious, but the church kind of kicked the women out of it and called them witches and stuff like that. But when people went to them to get the, you know, whatever drink they was getting, beer, wine, whatever, it was like, it was almost like ayahuasca type of experience. It was more that awakening. So for me, my next growth is kind of bringing that tradition back of, you know, the beer is more than just beer. It actually help you in some way, form, and not just poison the body. So I'm still trying to figure out, figure out how I'm going to do that. But it apparently was done.

[00:35:28] Chula Vista: I mean, if there's anyone that can pull that off, I think it's you.

[00:35:31] Tim Parker: Yes, I think that for me personally, that's my new growth, a new angle of where I'm going. And I'm just right now just trying to figure out how I'm going to do it and not get in trouble with, you know, ABC.

[00:35:43] Chula Vista: Those pesky guys. Right. Tim, do you mind if we talk about your meditation practice a little bit?

[00:35:47] Tim Parker: Oh, yeah, no problem.

[00:35:48] Chula Vista: OK, so before we started recording, you were telling me and Justin that you are a very dedicated meditator. Correct. And your co-founder and your wife, Dolly, also meditates, but you both do it your own way. How has taking up medication and really meditation, Jesus.

[00:36:05] Tim Parker: It's a form of medication.

[00:36:08] Chula Vista: How has meditation helped you as an entrepreneur?

[00:36:11] Tim Parker: It helped me big time. So I was just at a business meeting, and I had this epiphany. Once the business meeting was over, we was all giving speech, and everybody was telling, hustle, hustle, hustle, hustle. All the business people got together. And the first thing we start talking about is how we meditate and do all the type of stuff. So now when I go talk, I tell people, you don't need to hustle. You need to pause. You need to stop. And then you go. And that's what it is. It's a time to get clarity, to get your thoughts together, to get your ideas together and then formulate a plan and then implement that plan clearly. And so, but before you do all that, before you hustle, before you get the day going, you actually pause and you reflect on all that. You think about all that. And sometimes you don't think about it at all. You just think about nothing and whatever comes to you, comes to you. And so that's why it's so important to just take that moment for yourself to kind of, hey, pause, turn everything off, the outside world, because it doesn't stop. You know, the world keeps going. And you need that time for yourself to kind of, you know, it's that me time. You get what I'm saying? I get what you're saying. Nobody cares about you more than you. So at some point, you got to have that me time to take care of yourself.

[00:37:31] Chula Vista: Yeah, like I mentioned to you, I had recently gone to a yoga class that also had a meditation after the class ended. And like in general, like my brain is full of bees.

[00:37:41] Tim Parker: So that's everybody brain.

[00:37:42] Chula Vista: Yeah. And it was kind of nice because we were, you know, inside this courtyard at this library in my town. And it was just nice to have like passing thoughts, like the idea of like, ah, you need to, when you go to Costco later, buy Babybel because that's what the baby likes to eat. And then I just, you know, watched it go and then it was gone.

[00:38:00] Tim Parker: It was gone, right. So that's what meditation is all about. So we were just speaking about yoga. Yoga is a form to get ready for meditation. A lot of even people that take yoga don't realize that. But you can't turn off the thoughts. So that's a misconception that you go meditate and all of a sudden, you fell asleep is what happened. There's nothing wrong with that either. But over time, you learn to stay awake and stay in the meditation. But it slows down the thoughts. And now you have clearer thoughts. And now you have a better perspective of whatever the challenge it is that you're trying to overcome or you're dealing with at the time. So, and then it's also that time where things just pop in your head and you move forward in a new direction, so.

[00:38:47] Jessica Infante: I think that's a great perspective to have as an individual, but also for this industry, because there are so many things. I feel like people are constantly feeling a little bit underwater. You have to keep up with the trends. You have to keep up with making sure you are doing this or that or everything that we talk about at all of these conferences. But taking a moment to pause, really reflect on what you have done, what you're going to do in the future. I feel like the industry is lacking that a little bit right now. that bit of reflection or just like, okay, let's take a moment and really think about what we're going to do next.

[00:39:20] Tim Parker: I don't think it's really lacking. I just think it's not talked about in certain settings. Like Peace Support, I had a chance to sit down with Jill, yeah, from Peace Support. Jill's great. And we had some beers and stuff and we started talking and then we went down that lane and found out she does stuff like that. You go talk to the owners of Second Chance and they do, they hardcore meditation and they travel to Peru all the time to go meditate. So what I found is a lot of business owners, especially successful ones, do it. They just don't talk about it until they get into the right setting. I'm more like, can you cut something here? Yes, please. Fuck it, right? I'm more like, fuck it, just talk about it. Because I think more people need to hear it. More people need to understand this is not necessarily how you'd be successful, but this is how you could be successful in that piece or whatever it is you're doing. and not just constantly hustling, hustling, hustling, because it just wears you out. If all you're doing is hustling all day, you're just going to burn yourself out. So yeah, I just think it needs to be spoken out more. That's what it is.

[00:40:25] Jessica Infante: Yeah. I wonder if part of that is sometimes that self-care or self-reflection can be seen as a luxury or like an indulgence. And so it's not talked about as much because you're like, oh, I can't afford to do that right now. I need to be focused on other things. And that's it's actually a part of like maintenance and like sustaining yourself.

[00:40:45] Tim Parker: Right. So, I mean, we all got time of the day. We got 24 hours a day, a lot of it is just wasted on our phone. I mean, taking 30 minutes, you know, all right, you get an hour lunch break, right? How about we just do, we go eat for 30 minutes, 30 minutes meditate. You can find the time. I mean, I just did it with my brother. I just made my brother meditate. So he asked me to go golfing with him. And I was like, all right. So I tricked him at the end of the golf. Hey, we're about to sit down and meditate. How did that go? Right. It went good. He actually enjoyed it. And now he wants me to do it again with him. You could find a time in a day. And the word afford, you can't afford, that's a strong word to use. Like you can't afford 30 minutes for yourself. And that's what it is. You just making sure you're affording time for yourself and not always giving it away to everyone else.

[00:41:35] Chula Vista: You hit the nail on the head with how much time we waste on our phones. I'm like ashamed. Every Sunday morning when my phone tells me the screen time report, I have a deep shame spiral.

[00:41:44] Tim Parker: Trust me, just because I meditate doesn't mean I don't. I'm just as guilty. Thank you for being honest.

[00:41:54] Chula Vista: Well, so what else is new with you guys right now? How's the second location?

[00:41:57] Tim Parker: The second location is doing good. It's still growing. We're still trying to expand a little bit more. We have a lot of things going on. We're doing work with the Gaylord Hotel that's about to be built over there along the Bayfront. So that's going to be our next biggest project of trying to working with them and get all our beers and actually making a beer specifically for them. Cool. So right now that's what we've been working on. I used to have these big plans of looking out ahead. Other than the one I just told you about what I'm working on now, now it's just kind of like whatever's present at the moment. I really don't focus too much for our

[00:42:32] Chula Vista: And I know you're doing the self-distro thing. Is that gonna be the play for the foreseeable future? Have you ever thought about taking on a partner?

[00:42:40] Tim Parker: For now, I think it's the play for the foreseeable future. I mean, the margins is getting smaller and smaller. So, I mean, we've been fortunate enough, you know, I kind of figured it out, like, to the point where I almost felt like I might... I've been having people come to me and ask me, hey, can I... distribute for them. Oh. So I've actually been thinking about going to do that. Yeah. So, I mean, it's not hard. A lot of people think it's hard. It's just, you know, you just got to sit down and ask the questions to the right people, fill out the paperwork and get it done. And honestly, I give credit to my wife. My wife is the one that figured it out. I'm the good idea fairy, and she's the master implementing these crazy plans. She's the get shit done lady. Exactly. Exactly. So I don't want to take credit for something she did, and I get killed at home.

[00:43:30] Chula Vista: Well, I mean, it sounds like you guys complement each other perfectly.

[00:43:34] Tim Parker: Yeah, she's really good, really smart, smarter than me, of course. We definitely balance each other out. We definitely have different perspectives, which is very good because sometimes we can meet in the middle and that's usually the sweet spot. And because we have different views on almost everything, we check and balance each other when we're way off. Like, yo, normally we'll let each other do it, even if we think it's off. But when we're way off, it's like, all right, this ain't definitely good. I got to stop you right now. So, and it's usually her stopping me more than me stopping her. So it's just great. You know, we've been together what 20 some years now, so Man, I might get in trouble just for forgetting the number But yeah, so it been great That's awesome.

[00:44:18] Chula Vista: I mean, I love to hear I could never work with my husband. So trust me. Sorry I bet I love hearing like a very successful spouse life partner business partner situation. I

[00:44:29] Tim Parker: Yeah, so we have a little trick to it. So I mainly deal with East Lake, the new location. She mainly deal with dirt. Love this.

[00:44:37] Chula Vista: Well, his and her tap rooms.

[00:44:38] Tim Parker: Right, kind of, yeah. And then we just have our things that we do, and we don't step on each other's toes when we're doing it. But when we're done with whatever it is we're doing, we look over each other. All right, hey, can you view this and make sure it's good? When I'm done, I have to redo it three or four more times to make sure she likes it. So we have a good check and balance as well. We try to stay out of each other's way. And then we try not to talk about it at home. We try to get home and be with the kids and kind of leave work at work.

[00:45:12] Chula Vista: Perfect.

[00:45:13] Tim Parker: The key word is try.

[00:45:14] Chula Vista: Try. Well, Tim, this has been amazing. I'm so glad you came by to chat with us. It's always good to catch up with you. No problem.

[00:45:22] Tim Parker: Thank you for having me.

[00:45:23] Chula Vista: Always a pleasure to see you.

[00:45:26] Justin Kendall: All right. That's our show for this week. Thanks to Jess and Zoe for all they do. Thanks to our one man audio team, Joe. And thanks to all of you for listening. We'll be back next week.