Brewbound Podcast: CBC Week is Here; Plus, Drawdown Founder Liz Nicol

[00:00:00] Justin Kendall: Heading to CBC? Kick things off the day before at Brewbound's meetup at Love City Brewing in Philly, Sunday, April 19th from 5 to 7 p.m. Connect with beer industry leaders, grab a drink, and catch up with the Brewbound team. It's free to attend and walking distance from the convention center. Head to Brewbound.com slash lovecity.rsvp. And don't forget to catch the Brewbound team at booth 956 during CBC. It's CBC Week, next on The Brewbound Podcast. Hello and welcome to The Brewbound Podcast. I'm Justin Kendall.

[00:00:46] Jessica Infante: I'm Jessica Infante. And I'm Zoe Licata.

[00:00:48] Justin Kendall: And we are at the Craft Brewers Conference in Indianapolis. It's day one, so it's Tuesday. And how are we all doing?

[00:00:58] Brewers Conference: I think we're all good. I mean, it's just, I always love when we can all be together. So this is really nice.

[00:01:05] Justin Kendall: That actually sounded genuine.

[00:01:08] Jessica Infante: It did. Oh God. No, it's good to be here. Everyone seems to be in pretty good spirits, which is, you know, good these days. So it's been pretty positive so far.

[00:01:20] Brewers Conference: Zoe, I'm really glad you mentioned the word spirits because that feels like it's been the theme of the day.

[00:01:25] Jessica Infante: It's true. Yeah, we'll get all into all the discussions from the general session that happened this morning, but a lot of spirits talk happening for sure.

[00:01:33] Justin Kendall: Yeah, before we get too far down the road, let's plug our featured interview this week. It's with Liz Nicol, the founder of Drawdown Brewing in Jamaica Plain in Boston. You did the interview, Jess, and lots of women's sports talk.

[00:01:48] Brewers Conference: Well, so that's kind of how Drawdown ended up on my radar to begin with. I believe Boston Magazine named them the best place to watch women's sports, which I feel like, you know, five, 10 years ago, that would not be a category in a best of list. And then I just, you know, hit up Liz and said, hey, I really want to get to know you better. And we had a great chat. If you are into watching the WNBA,

[00:02:10] Justin Kendall: Hey, a lot of people are right now.

[00:02:12] Brewers Conference: A lot of people are right now. But yeah, like it was just fun. And now that I have a little girl, like I think about these things more often.

[00:02:19] Justin Kendall: Yeah.

[00:02:19] Brewers Conference: It's like I would love to make sure that like we show her this and we don't call it women's sports. We just say, hey, Cora, we're going to watch basketball.

[00:02:26] Justin Kendall: That's a great point.

[00:02:27] Brewers Conference: Or we should maybe start calling the other one the men's NBA. I like that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, great chat with Liz. Check it out when we're done here.

[00:02:36] Justin Kendall: Yep. Stay tuned for that interview. You can read Jess's preview of what to do in Indianapolis. You can read our guide to CBC right now on Brewbound.com. If you're an insider, we've got a lot more coverage. Zoe broke down the Boston beer earnings from Q1. I've got a feature on Happy Dad Up, moving to The Brewers network, getting investment from a venture capital firm. And all our CBC coverage will be up on Brewbound.com as well. If you like this podcast, though, please like, rate, review, subscribe, do all those things. Five stars is always appreciated. But let's talk a little bit about what's going on here in Indianapolis. We just sat through the general session and boy, was it speedy.

[00:03:21] Brewers Conference: Yeah, man, that ended like 25 minutes early, which I always appreciate.

[00:03:25] Justin Kendall: Hey, I'll always take 25 minutes back.

[00:03:28] Brewers Conference: Yeah, but we heard from BA board chair Leah Cheston, who's also the co-owner of Right Proper in D.C. She welcomed everybody. Really talked a lot about how important it is to find your why, as in W-H-Y, not just the letter Y. You know, because this is a tough business to be in. always, but right now in particular. So I think, you know, for a lot of people who got into it because they were so passionate about it, like it's good to remember what you felt back then when you're, I think Leah told a story about how one of their fermenters lost like half of the liquid inside it and she had to go in early in the morning to clean it up and she just, you know, thought back to what's driving her to do stuff like this.

[00:04:08] Justin Kendall: She made a great point too of just focusing on the one thing in that moment and not anything else and how satisfying that can be.

[00:04:17] Brewers Conference: Yeah, yeah. Finish this and then move on. And you will hear Leah on this podcast in the coming weeks because she is coming by the Brewbound podcast studio on Thursday.

[00:04:26] Jessica Infante: Someone you will also hear from is going to be Bart Watson, who is now the president and CEO of The Brewers Association. And he also gave his first remarks in that role this morning, which was cool to see. And there was a sense from both his remarks and some of the remarks that happened in the keynote, too, that there's a bit of a shift that has happened at The Brewers Association. They're saying there's kind of this new motivation behind leadership. And so Bart Watson walking through some of the stuff that they're focused on to help, some of his words were like, protect, promote, connect, try to support and defend beer, but also realize there's ways to do that that aren't necessarily just beer beer. And then also talking about everything that's going on in our political climate and how active the V.A. is in D.C. right now. So that was cool to see Bart in his his new leadership role.

[00:05:20] Brewers Conference: It was. And it was fun to chat with Bart last night. The welcome reception at Lucas Oil Stadium.

[00:05:26] Justin Kendall: Home of the Indianapolis Colts.

[00:05:28] Brewers Conference: Thank you for confirming this for this person who does not know anything about sports. But yeah, last night, one of the fun activities that you could participate in was kicking field goals on the field. And, you know, he didn't say that this conversation was off the record when it was happening. So I am just going to break the news here first that Bart Watson successfully kicked a field goal.

[00:05:46] Jessica Infante: We saw video proof that he did kick a field goal.

[00:05:50] Justin Kendall: Didn't you all talk about this with Matt Gacyhawk?

[00:05:53] Jessica Infante: Yeah, we were trying to say, you know, who from The Brewers Association is going to be able to do it. And if anybody could, it would be Bart. And we were correct.

[00:06:00] Justin Kendall: Is he the only one that kicked a field goal last night? This we do not know.

[00:06:04] Jessica Infante: I did see some other random people who did. So I don't know who else from The Brewers Association did, but he was not alone.

[00:06:11] Justin Kendall: Not alone.

[00:06:11] Jessica Infante: He was, however, in a low pressure situation. He got in early access, so he could totally focus in on that.

[00:06:20] Justin Kendall: Was there any jeering or trying to throw him off, jinx him?

[00:06:25] Jessica Infante: I don't think so. I think he was just in the zone.

[00:06:29] Justin Kendall: Well, speaking of being in the zone, Bart Watson giving his talk. He dropped a little nugget there about the Great American Beer Festival. We know that they've had some spirits products in the past, RTDs, but now they're opening it up to full strength spirits.

[00:06:45] Brewers Conference: which is quite something. And I mean, you both were there last year for RTDs. How popular were they on the floor?

[00:06:54] Jessica Infante: I mean, it was hard to tell because it's such a madhouse in there, especially with all the new setup and all the new zones. And the ROTDs and kind of all the Beyond Beer things are scattered around everywhere. So it wasn't like there was just like one section you could go to. But there was lines everywhere. So it seemed like they were just as popular as everything else. And we did hear from some folks who were manning some of the booths, particularly like the cider booths and things. that consumers were coming up to them and being like, we're so happy you're here, that you're giving us something else other than beer to drink.

[00:07:29] Brewers Conference: I mean, it is a brand and brave new world we are in. I can't imagine going to the Great American Beer Festival and hoping to find something other than beer to drink.

[00:07:40] Jessica Infante: Yeah.

[00:07:41] Brewers Conference: But what do I know? I actually like and drink beer.

[00:07:45] Jessica Infante: Yeah. I know. Do they have to change the name?

[00:07:49] Justin Kendall: The Great American Booze Fest.

[00:07:51] Brewers Conference: The Great American Beverage Festival.

[00:07:53] Justin Kendall: Yeah, maybe. Yes.

[00:07:55] Brewers Conference: Well, I would just like to put on record that I would like to go this year. So, Zoe, you and I have talked about that. Please.

[00:08:01] Justin Kendall: Please do. Go for it. Take my spot. Especially with the full strength spirits being the first year. Yeah.

[00:08:08] Brewers Conference: Having on many occasions worked behind a booth that was pouring something that's about 30 percent alcohol, I cannot

[00:08:16] Justin Kendall: at this very festival.

[00:08:17] Brewers Conference: At this very festival. Yeah. Or like the last time I attended this festival, I was very early on with child, so was leaving sober and it was like being in a like a like a crowd of zombies. So we'll see. But, you know, the plan is to not be with child and just have a good time. I'm rooting for you for this.

[00:08:40] Justin Kendall: Yeah. Well, we also heard from Esther and JC of Trillium and Brewbound followers definitely know about them. And they talked about a lot of different things about their business and growing it and doing it their way.

[00:08:55] Brewers Conference: Yeah, it was interesting to hear them talk about the history of Trillium, having been a person who lived in Boston throughout all of this. And they're very, very, very early days. They talked about this. I believe they said their first location was basically a shoebox. And it was. Justin, have you ever been to Trillium?

[00:09:12] Justin Kendall: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like when I moved here, you go to the alleyway, right by, I think it's a little further down from Row 34.

[00:09:21] Brewers Conference: Yeah, that generally. Yeah. And they didn't have they didn't have a license for for sampling. So you would go in, you would get your growler because that's all there was. And you would have to take your growler outside and try to surreptitiously drink it, I guess, on the street, which I have known many people who were spoken to about that behavior by various figures of authority. And to see what they've grown that into today is, honestly, it is really, really super impressive. They've got a gorgeous brew pub right in the same neighborhood, which is the place to be in Boston. They talked about how expensive rents are, the journey that it took to get them their correct spot, but they've also got their facility in Canton, which is a little outside the city. They are calling it their forever home. I believe it's the former Reebok headquarters, because Reebok moved into their neighborhood in Boston, which is funny, like a little switch. They've also got a farm. They also do a ton of spirits.

[00:10:12] Justin Kendall: And they do the Greenway, which I think is one of the things that really helped propel their success is connecting with consumers on a summer day in a green space in Boston.

[00:10:24] Brewers Conference: 5,000%. The Trillium Greenway Beer Garden used to be like the place to be. Maybe it still is. I don't get out. But there were lines. They were at like one in one out on a gorgeous summer day. I remember I used to walk by there on my way home from my office and I was passing by two ladies who were old enough to be my mom and they were looking over And they're like, so what? They just stand around there and drink beer? I don't get it. And it was like, yeah, man, that is, that's what's happening.

[00:10:53] Jessica Infante: Yeah. I don't think the lines happen as much anymore, but it's still pretty packed every time you walk past there. Like people are still going and hanging out.

[00:11:01] Brewers Conference: Yeah. I mean, Justin, to your point, I think that was like the first like place you could be outdoors in the puritanical city of Boston and enjoying something with an ABVF. Yeah. One thing that I really appreciated that Esther mentioned was, you know, when JC had come to her and said he wanted to start a Craft Brewers, she said to him, do you want to be a brewer or do you want to operate a Craft Brewers business? And I think that's a super important distinction. You know, Esther talked a little bit about her penchant for spreadsheets and analytics and really running the business side of things. And JC handles a lot of the other type stuff. And the SWOT analysis they talked about, I thought was really interesting.

[00:11:42] Justin Kendall: I did too.

[00:11:42] Brewers Conference: Do you want to recap that?

[00:11:43] Justin Kendall: Well, I think you'll do a better job than I will. But just talking about, you know, what they thought that they did well. They wanted to say what the other one did well and their areas of interest and where they overlapped. And then they gave ownership to the things that the other said, you know, that they thought they did well and that was of interest.

[00:12:03] Jessica Infante: Then they also pointed out that the things that they didn't necessarily align, either one of them align on, okay, that's where we need to look for someone to hire to help them take on that responsibility. They emphasized a lot throughout their conversation too that they need their business to operate without them as well. It's not sustainable to have a business that relies solely on the ownership. You need to be able to give some sort of responsibility to other people to help you out.

[00:12:31] Brewers Conference: Yeah, for sure. And they're up to, I believe they said 300 employees. So I thought that was a fun practice. Yeah.

[00:12:37] Justin Kendall: What was the statement that they had at the start that they had all the employees that I work in Craft Brewers? I work in Craft Brewers.

[00:12:43] Jessica Infante: Yeah, they opened up their their keynote with a video of just showing employees doing various things, whether it was like setting up for an event or it was a bartender making cocktails. And they would say what they do, but everything ended with, and I work in Craft Brewers.

[00:12:58] Justin Kendall: So J.C. tried to point out that basically that was a spoof of I'm a Craft Brewers, which is the decade old video. 15 years, somewhere in there, where it's all The Brewers saying, I'm a Craft Brewers, you know, and it's like Greg Cook is kind of the main character throughout it. It became sort of an ironic thing because a lot of those were not Craft Brewers in the end because they sold their companies and they weren't considered a Craft Brewers by The Brewers Association, which ran the video.

[00:13:33] Brewers Conference: Well, yes. And then the video, I think, kind of got scrubbed from the Internet because we had embedded it in our coverage of Stone's acquisition by Sapporo. And I had to check on that story at some point and went back to visit it. And the rectangle where the video was, was like... So yeah, honestly, when that video today first started playing, I was confused. I didn't I don't think I realized that it Watson and Trillium at first. Yeah. And I thought it was like something that was just part of the conference.

[00:14:02] Jessica Infante: Yeah. It spoke to something that was a through line throughout their whole conversation was. they acknowledge that people have called them out before for quote-unquote forgetting The Brewers for paying attention to and investing in things that aren't just beer like having a spirits company now or having so much going on with like their food and restaurants and They pointed out we are doing those things out, quote unquote, outside of beer because we want to support our beer. We want to be able to give people an experience where they want to come and have our beers. And so in order to do that, we have to do other things. It's not possible to just have a good product. You have to give them a good experience, give them some variety.

[00:14:45] Brewers Conference: Yeah, JC talked about something like in the early days, they were basically like batch to batch financing, like sell a batch of beer, take that money, invest in a deposit on a new fermenter. So I think they got a lot at the nuts and bolts business advice that I know everybody in the industry is all too aware of, but I think consumers and obviously this is not a consumer facing event, so it doesn't really matter. But they really kind of drove home the fact that this is a business, like this is an industry. If the finances don't work, then nothing works. Yeah.

[00:15:19] Justin Kendall: They also told a very personal story by J.C. about having a stroke, essentially, and taking care of your health. And we don't have to go too far down that rabbit hole, but just the health element and why that's important is definitely an underlying part of their speech.

[00:15:36] Brewers Conference: Oh, for sure. And also, J.C. ran the Boston Marathon last week. Sir, you are very busy.

[00:15:44] Justin Kendall: Well, we're very busy, too, and we need to get to some of the sessions that are going on right now. So with that, let's get to our featured interview with Liz Nicol from Drawdown Brewing.

[00:15:56] The Brewers: This episode is brought to you by the Craft Brewers Conference, where big ideas, bold beers, and brutally honest shop talk collide. Join thousands of industry pros leveling up their game. Don't miss it. Register now Brewers Conference.com.

[00:16:16] Brewers Conference: Our guest today is Liz Nicol, founder of Drawdown Brewing in the Jamaica Plain neighborhood of Boston, which I am very familiar with for many reasons. But Liz, thanks for joining. How are you doing?

[00:16:26] Craft Brewers: Doing good. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to, you know, come on in to the podcast and chat about Drawdown.

[00:16:33] Brewers Conference: I am so glad we were able to make this happen because I know we were both super busy for a while, but it's great to be here today. You know, there's a lot of things that make Drawdown really special, but in the spirit of the recently concluded March Madness, I want to touch on your dedication to showing women's sports on The Brewers TVs. Why was it important to do this?

[00:16:51] Craft Brewers: So it was kind of important, but not at the same time. Like it was just a very natural thing for us to do. So I'm a longtime sports fan. I grew up playing soccer and basketball all the way up through high school. And I have always loved sports. So when I went to college, I ended up going to Purdue university. And at the time we had an amazing women's basketball team. We went to two national championships and like, it was a very large part of the kind of college culture. And then as I got older and I moved further and further away from Purdue, it got harder and harder to keep up on the women's team. Cause it's like, obviously they're getting a lot of press coverage in town. But like, as you move out of the state and stuff, it became really hard to still track what the team was doing. So when we opened, we knew we wanted to be like a sports bar. And I really didn't even have to think twice about including women's sports into the loop on that one. It's been really cool to see. I know the sports bra had opened not too much before us, maybe 2021, I think. And they really took off in Portland. So I wasn't really sure how it would go over in Boston. And it's been really It's been a very pleasant surprise, very overwhelmingly, in a good way, to see the masses of people come out to watch women's sports.

[00:18:07] Brewers Conference: That's awesome. I'm so glad you brought up the sports bra, because first of all, what a name. Yeah, I know. But second of all, what a perfect concept, because if you want to watch women's sports, it can be really hard to do. particularly in whatever you would call this current wave of television accessibility that we're in. I don't even know what streaming package you would need to have right now.

[00:18:30] Craft Brewers: So you kind of have to cobble it together. Some of it we're able to have, some of it we're not. It's definitely interesting. And, you know, it's been made a little easier because it is becoming more popular in general. So that's getting like more regular TV coverage. But some of the Some of the streaming apps, yeah, you need to get by too. So I'd like to say, like, if I could afford to buy all of them, I would, but I can't. So we get by with what we can. You know, we still occasionally show men's sports. We try to be inclusive and make sure that they get included too, so.

[00:19:06] Brewers Conference: That is so kind of you. So we're coming up on WNBA season, right? How big is that for you guys?

[00:19:13] Craft Brewers: It's pretty big. You know, we get a lot of Connecticut Sun fans. We also get a lot of New York Liberty fans. If Boston were ever to get a team, I'm kind of curious to see how that would shake out with the whole Boston-New York rivalry that we have in general as two different cities. So yeah, we get a lot of Liberty fans. It happens for the soccer league, too. The NWSL, there's a lot of Gotham fans that come in to watch soccer games. But yeah, no, WNB season is great with them being offset kind of into the summer. Drawdown's able to have basketball on almost year-round, which is cool. But yeah, it's a good time. People definitely show up for playoffs more so than regular season games. And that's not like WNBA specific. That's just kind of like Boston sports fandom in general. But yeah, the season's a good time. We like to have games on. We did Unrivaled too over the summer. That was the first year for that league. So we were able to include them as well. What was that? Oh, yeah, so super cool. So Unrivaled was founded by two WNBA players, Brianna Stewart, and I'm going to screw up her name, but Nafisha and Nafisha Collier. So traditionally, WNBA players, they don't make a lot of money. So I think they're kind of at like the average salary is like 50 grand for the whole season. So a lot of them have to go play abroad in the summer, like famously, Brittany Griner was playing in Russia, a lot of A lot of other women play in Europe. And so they have to kind of, you know, cobble together a second paycheck to get by. So the two players I mentioned, they created a league and it was the first year and it was a three v three league. So it was like a smaller court and they did free throws a little differently to kind of keep the pace of the game up. And it was predominantly a lot of WNBA players in the league. And so they did that, like, they did it in the winter.

[00:21:02] Brewers Conference: Got it. So they're off season. That's that sounds like it's probably really fun to watch.

[00:21:06] Craft Brewers: They did it. Yeah, they did it in their off season. So they just wrapped up a couple weeks ago for their final. And it was cool because they all they had like six teams. But they all played in Miami. It was all based in Miami. So that there wasn't a lot of travel. Yeah. Expense. Like bubble style. Yeah. And then I think the players were able to have their families with them. So that was cool. And then everyone who signed up for the first year player wise, they got to come in as investors. So they also kind of now own part of the league. That's sweet. And they were able to get a ton of sponsorships. So I think the like average salary to play in that league for like however many weeks it was was a couple hundred thousand dollars.

[00:21:51] Brewers Conference: That's amazing.

[00:21:52] Craft Brewers: Yeah, it was really crazy.

[00:21:54] Brewers Conference: Wow, I mean, we could go on about this forever, but I just feel like sometimes when women enter a space they traditionally weren't in, they see it from a different perspective and are able to make it so much better.

[00:22:05] Craft Brewers: Yeah, I think that's the goal.

[00:22:07] Brewers Conference: In Dryden's dedication to showing women's sports, what kind of a community have you been able to build as a result?

[00:22:14] Craft Brewers: So we've been able to build kind of a lot of different communities. So we say that we wanted to be like a community space, but it's kind of cool to see how those different communities shake out. So obviously we have like the women's sports community and that's across all leagues. It's not just basketball. Boston has the fleet. So we've been doing a lot of PWHL games, a lot of soccer games, a lot of basketball games. But, you know, we also, as a member of the queer community, we've also created like a lovely LGBTQ plus community vibe as well. And then, you know, we also have our actual physical neighborhood. So we have the JP community. Uh, and it's been really fun to see those three kinds of communities intersect and overlap. And then also at the same time, like how they don't overlap. Like I have basketball regulars and then I have soccer regulars. And so we have drag race regulars for Friday nights. So it's cool. to see the different groups come in.

[00:23:07] Brewers Conference: That is really cool. Well, to prep for this, I read a feature on the Boston Globe from when you first opened. And, you know, you had mentioned one of your goals from the start was to create a tap room where people don't always see themselves reflected in Craft Brewers culture or feel really welcome. So it sounds like in addition to the women's sports, you've done so many other things to really, you know, provide that and to signal like, hey, like this is a place for you too. In addition to like showing drag race, which is amazing. What else do you do?

[00:23:37] Craft Brewers: So we just try to create some community events that again, it just kind of ended up being a place that, like, we wanted to hang out and, you know, being part of the queer community, that was part of it. So we do create events, like we did a pride party, we do drag race watch parties on Fridays, and actually for the fun intersection of my love of sports and my love of all things gay, we do a drag race fantasy league. Stop it. So yeah, so what I do is we let people get like the first episode or two for free so you could meet all the queens and then you pick like your team of four queens. And then I score them based on each episode, how they do and you get points. And so it's been really fun because some people I've seen them post online and be like, I'm in my first fantasy league ever because it's a drag race fantasy league. So it's a good time. And then we do like watch parties so people can come in Amanda Huang out in the taproom and, you know, watch it together.

[00:24:33] Brewers Conference: That's so much fun. And you're giving yourself a lot of homework here.

[00:24:38] Craft Brewers: Yes, I am giving myself too much homework. I do enjoy it, but yeah, it's a lot to pull off sometimes.

[00:24:45] Brewers Conference: And then I also read in that Globe piece that you were interviewed for, your inspiration really came during your 2016 visit to Europe for the Euros. And I too was in Europe that summer. Oh yeah? Yeah, we were on our honeymoon. My husband was psyched to be able to watch all these games. We were in Italy when Italy won. Yeah. And just like the crazy, right? Yeah.

[00:25:08] Craft Brewers: Yeah. It was my first time being able to go to the Euro Cup. And, you know, I honestly, like we went to a couple games, but hands down, my favorite memory was just being in the country of like that team plane, and going to like the outdoor cafes and watching it with all like the local fans. So We kind of bopped around the games were in France that year. So we, you know, we were in France, we went to a couple games and like sitting at an outdoor French cafe where people like roll TVs out into the square and like everyone's watching together. And then the same thing happened. We went to Belgium, same thing happened. We were in like this tiny little town and found like this giant watch party to go hang out and watch a Belgium game. And then, you know, I was fortunate enough to go to Germany as well. I made all my friends. I was like, no, we got to go guys. So. I made all my friends go to Germany and we were able to go to Dusseldorf, which is where I fell in love with Altbier. And it is now one of the flagships on our menu because of that trip. That's awesome. What a fun audible.

[00:26:05] Brewers Conference: Altbier is not as common as it should be. So kudos to you for, you know, bringing like, what are people's general reactions to it? Do they even know what to expect? How much education do you have to do?

[00:26:17] Craft Brewers: So we do a fair amount of education and like that's part of also like making people feel welcome where they don't normally feel welcome and, you know, kind of us to being our point to being inclusive and not just like with what we show on our TVs but like with beer also like. I'm trying to highlight some really great styles that don't necessarily get a ton of attention here. So the alt beer, we've had people, some of the questions honestly surprised me. They're like, is that like alternative? Like, is that punk? Like what? And I'm like, no, that's just the name of the style. And like, I'll kind of give like a little general piece of history. And also one of the, the funny things is my wife, she helps out in the tap room and alt in German, basically it's old, like, Like how many years old you are, like, or, you know, so she started telling people, oh, all just means old. And I'm like, okay, you gotta, you gotta stop telling people that because no one's going to order an old beer. Like, please don't say that anymore. But yeah, we just, we let people know, uh, you know, it's just like a well-balanced German brown ale, very similar to like an Oktoberfest or a Marzen. You just probably haven't heard of it yet. Cause like, Beer in Germany is very regional, and so it's just from a different region, and then people are like, oh, yeah, no, great, and they give it a try, and they love it.

[00:27:41] Brewers Conference: So. Oh, I'm sure they love it.

[00:27:42] Craft Brewers: Yeah.

[00:27:45] Brewers Conference: So I know your membership club is in its second season, and that's a super interesting model that I think not everybody takes advantage of, but not everybody is able to take advantage of. So tell me a little bit about the club, how it works, and how it benefits The Brewers.

[00:27:58] Craft Brewers: Yeah, so the club's a cool thing we've been doing. Like you mentioned, it's our second year. The first year was a little different because we weren't open yet. So it was kind of just like a big fundraising effort. So it was kind of like you bought a very expensive package of merch to help us raise money to get through construction and to get our doors open. And now that we're open, we kind of pivoted the club a little bit. You get some merch, but you don't get like a whole bundle. We do like we have an exclusive glass that we give you as part of your sign up. But we're also giving out discounts on merch, other discounts like on private events. We have some exclusive stuff, too. So like we're going to do a couple of parties and they're going to be like members only. Cool. Yeah. So you get invited to that. And then the thing I think I like the most is that this year we came up with a secret menu. So I was kind of inspired by like In-N-Out. burger out on the West Coast and how they have like a secret menu that I don't really think is that secret anymore. But we have a secret menu for the members. So like we do specialty blends and like 50 50 pours and stuff that we won't do normally. So That's very creative. Yeah. So that's one of the fun offers. And then the whole taproom staff helps, you know, come up with what's on the menu. So each kind of we all have our own beer that's on the list. And then we have an unofficial competition because a lot of us are former athletes and slightly competitive humans. So, you know, we talk smack to each other when one of us is out selling everybody else.

[00:29:29] Brewers Conference: Oh, my God. That's so much fun. What have you learned about your customers through the club?

[00:29:36] Craft Brewers: I don't know if I've really learned anything new. A lot of the regulars signed up without hesitating. They were like, yes, I'm down to help you out even more. But we're just trying to spread the word amongst people who don't come in super regularly but still want to help out, kind of like a lot of the people who maybe signed up for the first year, because obviously you signed up and you hadn't tasted any of my beer yet. You hadn't been into my space. You didn't know me. So you kind of, it was a little bit of a leap of faith and we really just want to reward people for kind of helping invest in us. The money from the club largely goes to cap room improvements. So things that we wouldn't necessarily have the capital to pull off on our own, because we are such a new business. It's a nice little influx of cash to help us kind of, you know, enhance the experience. That's huge.

[00:30:27] Brewers Conference: One thing I did want to make sure we talked about because I think it's definitely going to be of interest to our listeners is that you're on the first floor of a mixed-use retail residential building. And that's becoming a lot more popular in recent years. I think you see a lot of breweries either opening second locations in those where like maybe the developers approach them or something. But it's really interesting because you've got a whole host of potential customers living right above you. But I'm sure there's pros and cons. I know you do call it on the website as saying either why you don't have live music. Yeah. So what are the pros and cons of this setup for any listeners who might be considering opening similarly situated locations?

[00:31:04] Craft Brewers: Yeah. There's definitely two sides to everything. So like you mentioned, some of the cons are, you know, no live music, no microphoned events. You know, that was kind of assumed that wasn't really a surprise, but I am a big fan of like live music. So not being able to host them or having that to be part of our like culture was a little bit of a bummer, but we saw a lot of the upsides kind of outweighed that. Another thing that we kind of had that was kind of a surprise, I guess, but like, um, Our space, our whole, one of our sides or facades is just straight up windows. Like it's just floor to ceiling glass. And so that, well, what it appeared to be nice at the upfront, like, oh, we're going to get an onshore light. This is going to be really cool. It has kind of complicated the acoustics of the space. It gets a little echoey, which is tough. So we're, you know, actively trying to do sound improvements to the taproom and to make that better. And then heating and cooling is also pricey because you get a lot of solar loading through those windows. Um, and then we have, we've hung up flags for various sports teams, but one thing we've had to do is we have to move the flags throughout the year because the sun moves. So then we have to move the flags so we don't get blinded behind the bar. So that's something I wasn't anticipating. Uh, but we, you know, we find a workaround. And we do have customers who live above us, or I guess I should say we have residents who live above us, but it hasn't necessarily turned into the built-in customer base we anticipated. Interesting. I've spoken to the landlord, too, and he thinks we have a lot of doctors or residents, people in the medical field in the building. So they are working off hours and possibly don't align with our taproom hours. And so we don't actually see a ton of people in the building. come down to the bar, at least people who self-disclose anyway. They live in the building. It's usually actually people from like the neighborhood, the surrounding area that are more frequent in the tap room.

[00:33:09] Brewers Conference: Got it, got it. What factors were you looking for when you were looking for your location?

[00:33:14] Craft Brewers: Yeah, so we had a couple ideas that were really important to us. It was a long time coming to get open. So like we actually started writing the business plan back in 2016, I think. you know, after I got back from the Eurocup. So I wanted to be in Boston because at the time, all of the like smaller breweries were north of the Charles River. They were like Cambridge, Somerville, Everett. No one was really in Boston proper except the really big ones like Harpoon and Sam Adams. Trillium had just opened up a couple of years prior, but they were smaller and Southie. But like, so to that point there, there weren't a ton of breweries in Boston. There were like a lot in the surrounding areas. So it was really important to me to be in Boston, to tap into that market, that large demographic. And then for my day job, I'm a civil engineer. I work on a lot of transportation projects. So to be within the limit of the MBTA subway system, like that was also really important to me. I wanted to have a lot of accessibility options, like multimodal, like you could ride your bike or you could take the T, like you wouldn't necessarily have to get in your car and drive. intentionally to go to me, right? Like you could just happen to come across me in your travels, as opposed to if we had been located like in the back of like an industrial park kind of vibe, like you're not stumbling upon Drawdown Brewing that instance. Like you would have to be going to me directly to kind of find me. So those were kind of the important things. And then, you know, with those two factors, you also get foot traffic. Like I wanted to be somewhere. where we were easily accessible and you have a lot of foot traffic out front, which is how we ended up in a mixed-use residential building.

[00:34:56] Brewers Conference: All of that makes so much sense. And you're still engineering, right?

[00:34:59] Craft Brewers: Yeah. So I still have my day job part-time. My wife still has her day job full-time. We're a new business, so we're selling a lot of beer, but we're not really making a lot of money right now. So I need to still have that paycheck. to help augment Drawdown's finances. That'll come though.

[00:35:19] Brewers Conference: Oh my gosh, you must be exhausted.

[00:35:22] Craft Brewers: I have worked seven days a week for 400 some plus days now. So yeah, it's a lot, but you gotta do what you gotta do to make your dreams come true.

[00:35:35] Brewers Conference: For sure. Well, so in two plus years of Drawdown, what's been your favorite memory?

[00:35:40] Craft Brewers: I don't know if I have an absolute favorite memory. I think, you know, off the top of my head, one of them would definitely be winning best of Boston in our first year. So we won best place to watch women's sports, uh, from Boston magazine. That was an incredible honor and a total surprise. Honestly, I was not anticipating that when the awards came out. So that was really cool. Some other stuff that's been nice is like. people thanked me for opening, which I think is just really sweet. Yeah, it like melts my cold heart to have people just thank me, whether it's, you know, women's sports fans or people in the gay community, just thanking me for creating a space for them to hang out has been really super cool. And then one of the like single fun memories too would be the first time we had like a line out the door, like we were packed out for, I think it might've been March Madness last year for the women's final to like look up from the mad rush that is service to see that like you actually have a line out the door of people who want to come hang out at our space. That was super cool.

[00:36:47] Brewers Conference: That's amazing.

[00:36:48] Craft Brewers: Yeah.

[00:36:50] Brewers Conference: Awesome. Well, what's something about the Boston craft community that might surprise people?

[00:36:54] Craft Brewers: I mean, I'm imagining we are similar to a lot of other craft communities. I was actually talking, to one of my production staff the other day about this. And I think we kind of came up with it like it's really it's just kind of hard right now, like the craft community in general, like the industry, the hospitality space, like it is. It's tough. I think people aren't going out as much as they used to. And like, I know people talk about like a Craft Brewers bubble. bursting and I don't really think of it as a bubble. I think of it, you know, more as a growth, like a linear growth thing. And I think our growth has slowed. I think we're still growing, but it's not like it was, you know, 10 years ago. So like if you're out there and you have a favorite brewery, I would just say, like, go visit them and, you know, get some beer or buy some merch, show them a little love and times will change. We'll get through it. But right now it's kind of one of the rough spots, I think, for the hospitality industry.

[00:37:56] Brewers Conference: For sure. Well, as we are about to embark on the next NBWA season final final, who's who's your team in that league? Or will I get you into trouble?

[00:38:08] Craft Brewers: No, I have I have teams, but yeah, I'm going to get shade for this, but that's totally fine because I'm in New England. So I'm originally from Indianapolis. So the Indiana Fever, that's my OG team, right? Like, I think I got to go to their very first game back in like 1999 or whatever. They have a special place in my heart. A lot of people come in and think I'm bandwagon-y because of Caitlyn Clark. But I do have love for the Connecticut Sun too, even though they kind of traded away all their players this year, but that's fine. I got to go to a Sun game last season and it was really cool to watch them all hustle and like ball out down there. They play at Mohegan Sun in Connecticut. Yeah. So that was really cool. But yeah, I've been, some of the regulars that come in we've been discussing. you know, what's going on with the team because they like they're starting five is all I think gone now. So it's going to be interesting to see what happens next year with the sun.

[00:39:08] Brewers Conference: Interesting. I would love for Boston to get WNBA team. I think it's yeah, it makes I mean, I know the sun is close, but they're not that close.

[00:39:16] Craft Brewers: They're not that close. And come on. I mean, Connecticut has UConn Lake. all of those women basketball fans, like I think Boston can totally support a team and the Sun will still exist. I don't think if Boston has a team, the Sun would go out of business by any means.

[00:39:32] Brewers Conference: For sure. And they played a game up here somewhat recently.

[00:39:35] Craft Brewers: They did. Yeah, they played a TD Garden. It did. Yeah. And they're gonna do it again this summer. I forget who were playing it. Either the Fever or the Sparks. I'm not sure. But yeah, they're going to do another one at TD Garden. And I'm anticipating that it will also probably sell out. Oh, I'm sure.

[00:39:54] Brewers Conference: Well, one more final, final, final. Now that I know that you're from Indianapolis, what is one spot that people cannot miss when they're in town for CBC?

[00:40:03] Craft Brewers: Oh, yeah, that's right. I am excited to get to go to CBC and go back home. Let's see. Honestly, like some of The Brewers I absolutely loved when I left because I've been gone for a little bit now have closed. I think one of the like absolute stalwarts, though, is Sun King. Sun King was my first Craft Brewers, like real local Craft Brewers, not like, you know, Sam Adams and Sierra Nevada, they're still craft. But I had a Sun King Cremale, which is the inspiration for having our Cremale on our menu. And it was the first time like I had like a light bulb go off and be like, oh, wait, like you can do this and you don't have to be like a Sam Adams, like, oh, wow, like, that's really cool. And then shortly thereafter, I fell into homebrewing and, you know, here we are now today.

[00:40:50] Brewers Conference: So here we are today. Well, thank you so much for joining. This has been awesome. Great to get to know you and draw down a little bit more. And I will absolutely pop in sooner rather than later for for a beer and a game. Yeah, that sounds awesome. Great. Thanks. Well, that's our show for this week. Thank you so much to Liz for joining and to the whole Brewbound crew that makes the podcast possible. If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe and review it five stars so other people can discover it too and send any feedback to podcast at Brewbound.com. Keep it nice, keep it friendly or I'll cry. Just kidding. If there's anything you want to tell us that's on your mind, shoot us a note and we'll be back with a fresh episode next week.