[00:00:00] Justin Fonte: Heading to CBC? Kick things off the day before at Brewbound's meetup at Love Societe Brewing in Philly, Sunday, April 19th from 5 to 7 p.m. Connect with beer industry leaders, grab a drink, and catch up with the Brewbound team. It's free to attend and walking distance from the convention center. Head to Brewbound.com slash lovecity.rsvp. And don't forget to catch the Brewbound team at booth 956 during CBC. Hello and welcome to a special bonus episode of the Brewbound podcast. My name is Justin Kendall and I'm the editor of Brewbound and I'm joined by Justin Fonte, the managing editor of Brewbound. What's up, Jess? Nothing, Justin. How are you? Good to see you, Jess. Also joining us is Zoe Licata, Brewbound reporter extraordinaire. What is up, Zoe?
[00:01:00] Adam Charnek: Hello. Reporting live from the office today.
[00:01:03] Justin Fonte: fancy, uh, fake trees or bushes behind you too.
[00:01:07] Adam Charnek: I know I have greenery styles today. Just an actual professional setup. Is that, is that a real plant? No, no, no, no.
[00:01:17] Justin Fonte: This is a special bonus episode, as I said at the top that we recorded at the California Craft Beer Summit in Sacramento. And we did a bunch of interviews and we figured we'd get them all out. We'll be joined during this episode by the team at Full Circle Brewing, as well as Societe Brewing's founder, Doug Constantiner. So stay tuned for those. A quick plug, we're going to be on the road at the Crappers Conference in Nashville for BrewTalks. We've got two big panels. Zoe, what do we got going on?
[00:01:51] Adam Charnek: So, yeah, we have two panels and then some additional bonus conversation happening. But our first panel is talking about the kind of conflicting trends of low and no alkyl and super high ABV beers. Bill Shufelt from Athletic Brewing is going to be with us. We have Sam Calagione from Dogfish Head and Colleen Quinn from Greater Good. So it's going to be a fun little chat covering all the bases for ABV. And then our second panel, we are talking about multi-state taproom expansions.
[00:02:26] Justin Fonte: Yeah, we'll be joined by Adam Charnek from Highwire Brewing, Jeff Heck from Monday Night Brewing, and Marcus Baskerville from Weathered Souls. So pretty solid panel of folks who have expanded outside of their home territories. You know, we talk a lot about what is it, mile deep, inch wide strategy, and this is a different way of doing that and becoming local in a market that isn't really your own and trying to make it your own.
[00:02:53] Adam Charnek: Yeah, I had a conversation with Highwire before about this idea and being able to also influence your off-premise sales with these taproom expansions. So that should be a fun chat. And then we have a third mini conversation that you set up for us, Justin, which is going to be very exciting.
[00:03:09] Justin Fonte: Yeah, we're going to be talking with the National Black Brewers Association and getting to know what their mission and goals are. This is a new organization that's being formed, so more details to come on that. But with that, let's get to this week's featured interviews.
[00:03:26] Highwire Brewing: Okay, we are back on the trade show floor at the California Craft Beer Summit, hosted by the California Craft Brewers Association. And joining us in the Brewbound studio right now is the team from Full Circle Brewing in Fresno, California. So with us are Adam Band, the marketing director. How you doing, Adam?
[00:03:44] Jeff Heck: Great, great.
[00:03:44] Monday Night: Happy to be here.
[00:03:45] Highwire Brewing: Great. Glad you're here. We've also got brewer Mike Sumaya. Mike, how's it going?
[00:03:49] Monday Night: That's going great. Glad to be here too.
[00:03:51] Highwire Brewing: Nice. Well, I'm super excited that you guys are joining us because your brewery story is really interesting. You know, Full Circle started its second chapter in 2016 when Arthur Moy sold his CPA practice and bought the brewery, making it one of the few Black-owned breweries in the U.S. So how long have you both been with the company?
[00:04:10] Jeff Heck: I've been with the Full Circle a little bit over three years now.
[00:04:13] Highwire Brewing: Okay. How about you, Mike?
[00:04:14] Monday Night: I actually was with Full Circle originally when Arthur bought the place. I was a head brewer there for a little over a year and a half or so. And then I went to some other breweries and now I've been back there since December of this last year. So just a few months now.
[00:04:25] Highwire Brewing: Awesome. You've got a really great perspective because you were here early and now you're back. So what has the journey been like?
[00:04:31] Monday Night: Oh, it's a complete sea change from where it was when I was there. When I was there, it was brewing on a seven barrel system. It was kind of a DIY stuff that the previous people had made. And now when I go back in there, we're doing 30 and 60 barrel batches. And it's a whole tank farm in there where it just used to be storage and performance stages and stuff like that. So it's all completely different.
[00:04:51] Highwire Brewing: So as a brewer, how is that? Is it exciting?
[00:04:54] Monday Night: Yeah, definitely. It's a lot different from brewing on that little mash tun that you just kind of tilt over to dump the grain out. And now we have a legitimate professional system and it's a lot more controlled, a lot easier to make a consistent product on.
[00:05:10] Highwire Brewing: Awesome. Adam, what's the journey been like for you?
[00:05:14] Jeff Heck: It's been pretty interesting. I came on in March of 2020, right when COVID hit. So I was there at the transition from most of our product being sold in kegs to kind of getting a new canning line in the nick of time. We'd ordered it right before COVID hit and kind of implementing that and kind of transitioning to completely packaged goods. So that was a big transition and then working to kind of fund our growth. through two different crowd equity campaigns and tapping into our community to kind of get people invested in the brand and get our community excited and support us. So that's been a pretty big part of the journey so far.
[00:05:48] Adam Charnek: Yeah. We want to talk about those crowdfunding campaigns because you've raised, what is it? You hit nearly $700,000 so far. So like, can you give us a little insight in like why you chose to go down that route? How that connects to the brand and that community you talked about?
[00:06:03] Jeff Heck: Definitely. I think the big thing for us is instead of, for the stage of growth we're in now, instead of tapping into those traditional conventional investment groups that are investing the millions and millions of dollars, activating the members of our community who are already super excited about the brand and want to be part of the brand. There's so many people everywhere that want to be part of a craft brewery. And we already had a pretty good following locally and distribution networks throughout the state. So tapping into those people who already have that level of familiarity instead of pitching to new people was a big thing. And through CrowdEquity, you're able to raise from smaller investors instead of those big investors. So we have nearly 1,000 investors now from these CrowdEquity campaigns, and the minimum investment's only $250. So it's not like it's a big commitment from someone, but it just gets people excited about the brand and gets members of our community bought into what we're doing.
[00:06:52] Adam Charnek: Yeah. How would you describe what the Full Circle brand is about? Who are you guys are and why people would be interested in doing something like that and being a part of that?
[00:07:04] Jeff Heck: Yeah, I think for us, it's kind of a lot of times going against the status quo. Instead of being like a beer focused brand, which we are, we have other aspects to it. Entertainment is a big piece. We have the trademark beertainment, so big, bold, and brazen on the side of every can. It really kind of embodies who we are. We do collaborations with artists. We have four or five days of live music from national acts to local bands every week. So I think entertainment is a big piece of our brand. But lately, vibes has been kind of the word we're focusing on. We launched a new series of beer called the Vibe Series. So far, we've done a peachy vibes and a hazy pale ale called Juicy Vibes in the series. And we're really kind of tapping into what it means to be a vibe. And our recent focus on that's kind of been focusing on people's mental health and kind of how communities and people's tribes tie into that.
[00:07:55] Adam Charnek: You guys have had some beers being drank for some people around here. I've heard a couple of people talking. I'm trying a Full Circle beer. So what's the goal with the beers that you're making? Is there like a through line with those products?
[00:08:06] Monday Night: I think with the vibes are definitely a lot easier to drink, lighter beers are not big high ABV beers at all. And it's fun being able to make those kinds of beers is usually it's so just straight IPA focused and especially the juicy vibes. It's it definitely has that IPA vibe to it, but it's four and a half percent alcohol. And so it's really sustainable, really easy to drink and definitely one of the favorites of everybody in the production facility when it's into the shift and we're going to have our shifty. That's usually what we're going for.
[00:08:36] Adam Charnek: Yeah, that's refreshing. There's a lot of high ABV beers out there right now.
[00:08:40] Highwire Brewing: I'm glad you brought up the Shifty's because it's always been interesting. I mean, I've worked at breweries too, and it's interesting to me to see what the staff drinks versus what the patrons drink. What do you notice about what's really popular in the taproom with your regulars and locals versus what you guys yourselves want to drink after the end of a long day?
[00:09:00] Monday Night: It seems like the fruited beers definitely do well. Mango Bomb does really well. People really enjoy that. But yeah, as a brewer, I'm definitely like the rest of the brewers. I want that light, crisp, easy drinking beer, especially at the end of a working day.
[00:09:13] Highwire Brewing: Nice. Adam, how about for you? What's your go-to in the taproom after you leave your desk?
[00:09:18] Jeff Heck: It's been the vibe series lately, just something crushable or just top of mind. And I think it provides a talking point. Everybody in the top room, when customers are there, they're asking the staff, what are you drinking? And that's kind of been our focus. So it's what I enjoy drinking and I like talking about it.
[00:09:33] Adam Charnek: So Full Circle, you guys also just got a pretty big accolade. You were named Fresno County Small Business of the Year. Can you guys let us know what that means and what that kind of honor is?
[00:09:44] Jeff Heck: Yeah, that was through the Small Business Development Center. So it's a national organization, but there's offices in each area. And that was a pretty big ordeal for us. Arthur being kind of so business-focused, he's been willing to tap into a lot of resources that are available, consultants that are willing to kind of help us grow our brand and grow the way we think business-wise. And I know a big piece of that, too, was some of the work we did with the U.S. Black Chamber of Commerce for Black History Month. We partnered with them. They're based in Washington, D.C., but we partnered with them to create two new products, which was Juicy Vibes was one of them, and a new cider. We bought the rights to Sonoma Cider in 2020, so we created a new cider in that line. So kind of representing Fresno on a bigger scale has also kind of helped us community-wise, I guess you could say.
[00:10:30] Highwire Brewing: So it sounds like you made, there were two pretty smart business moves in 2020, that canning line and Sonoma Cider IP. Do you do a lot with cider?
[00:10:40] Jeff Heck: Yeah, we've been slowly growing it back up the last few years and a lot of our distributors have taken it on. But I think last year we produced about a thousand barrels of it. So it's becoming a bigger and bigger part of our product mix.
[00:10:52] Highwire Brewing: Yeah, you know, I know Zoe does a bunch of cider coverage, so. Big fan of the cider stuff.
[00:10:57] Adam Charnek: But yeah, I mean, regional cider is like having its moment right now.
[00:11:01] Jeff Heck: Yeah. I think it's just the market's so less saturated, too. And I think people are, with a lot of more people being health conscious, I think there's a lot of benefits on that side that are kind of drawing more people in that might have traditionally been craft beer drinkers.
[00:11:13] Adam Charnek: Yeah.
[00:11:14] Monday Night: There's a lot of blurring the lines between the ciders and the seltzers. The seltzers are obviously a big part of the industry now, and we're not currently doing seltzers, but we do have the ciders, so we have something to offer the people that are looking for something like that.
[00:11:27] Adam Charnek: Yeah, I know there's a lot of consumer data that says there's a lot of crossover in cider consumers and hard seltzer consumers, and looking for those slightly better for you stuff, but some fuller, fruitier flavors. And it seems to have more staying power than the hard seltzers do.
[00:11:43] Monday Night: Yeah, it's got that natural fruitiness that seltzers just don't have. You got to be adding that into it.
[00:11:47] Highwire Brewing: Yeah, exactly. You guys are in nine markets, which is really interesting to me. I had pulled it up on the Start Engine page, but California, Nevada, Arizona, Colorado, Kansas, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Maryland, New Jersey. Is that nine? Yeah, that's nine. That's really interesting because these are pretty disparate. So Adam, what's it like to thread the needle with messaging to these different places?
[00:12:12] Jeff Heck: It's been interesting. A big part of it's like we've tried to divide it into stages like a brand awareness. So getting people just to recognize the brand exists to people who are already familiar with the brand and people who are loyal customers. So it's kind of mapping out each of those territories where they're at kind of on our on our graph and we treat each of those markets a little bit differently. And I know it might seem like those are desperate in terms of how we mapped them out, but we bought our own semi truck after our first round of crowd equity. And we kind of made our own route. So it's along the same route to get out there. So we deliver our own beer as far east as New Jersey.
[00:12:44] Highwire Brewing: So when you look at the map, like, yeah, they're like in a line. So, I mean, are we going to fill in like Missouri, Illinois and Indiana?
[00:12:53] Jeff Heck: It's definitely a possibility. We've been kind of trying to dig into what we have, have our boots on the ground on in right now, but we're definitely considering more options in terms of expanding our footprint.
[00:13:04] Highwire Brewing: Great. And what's next for you guys? What should we be looking out for?
[00:13:08] Jeff Heck: I think we're probably looking at some more beers in our Vibe series here pretty soon, and some more chain presence. We've had a lot of luck this last year with kind of getting permanent placements or mandated items in a lot of chains, Safeway, Raley's. We've done a bunch of stuff with Costco the last few months. So I think kind of more product on the shelf for the eyes of the consumers, I think is probably our next big stage. And then we have a few other big projects we're working on that I'm sure I'll be reaching out to you guys on soon too.
[00:13:36] Highwire Brewing: Yeah, can't wait to hear about it. Where can people find you?
[00:13:38] Jeff Heck: So we're pretty much all over California now. We have every county covered. Nice. Big chains, Safeway, Total Wine, BevMo, Save Mart, some Costco's, but we have a beer finder on our website. So if there's a specific area someone's in and wants to find our beer, they can type their zip code in, it'll pop up all the locations and what beers are available.
[00:13:57] Adam Charnek: And if someone wants to be a part of that crowd equity campaign, where should they go?
[00:14:02] Jeff Heck: Yeah, we made it easy because the link through Start Engine's a little bit long. We have a website that redirects. It's just tapin.beer.
[00:14:10] Highwire Brewing: Sweet. Doesn't get easier than that.
[00:14:12] Jeff Heck: Nope.
[00:14:13] Highwire Brewing: Awesome. Well, thank you both for coming to hang out with us. We hope you enjoy the rest of the show.
[00:14:17] Monday Night: Thank you. Thanks for having us.
[00:14:18] Highwire Brewing: Thanks, guys.
[00:14:22] Justin Fonte: All right, we're here on the Brewbound Podcast at the California Craft Beer Summit in Sacramento, and joining us now is Doug Constantiner from Societe Brewing. What's up, Doug? Nothing much, happy to be here. I'm glad to see you again. Yeah, likewise. It's always great seeing y'all. We did this the last time we were at CCBA, didn't we?
[00:14:40] Marcus Baskerville: That's right. Probably around the same time, too. I'm glad that we get to do this again. What's new at Society? Oh, we just, we keep growing. That's basically the newest thing. We re-released a double IPA that was a fan favorite. We made it a core this year called the Roustabout. But the pupil, our IPA, continues to sell. So we're just trying to always maintain that growth and just not let off the gas pedal.
[00:15:06] Justin Fonte: What is it about the pupil that has really captured people's imagination in San Diego?
[00:15:12] Marcus Baskerville: I think it's a couple things. I think the alcohol level at 7.5 is pretty good because you can have one of them, you know, and get that desired effect out of it. But really, flavor is everything. It's not only flavor, I mean, it's pretty tropical, but the drinking experience is something we always try to look at when we're doing recipe formulation is that you can have a super hoppy, super bitter beer that when you swallow it might coat your tongue and you have that lingering bitterness. With the pupil, the IBUs are pretty reduced relatively for where IPAs normally are. So it's a very pleasurable drinking experience combined with really good tropical notes. A lot of guava, mango, a little bit of pine and citrus, and traditionally IPAs, at least when we opened, were just pine, citrus, bombs, and pretty bitter. With the Pupil, it's kind of a different flavor than you're used to, being that it is really tropical fruit forward, and a different drinking experience than what most IPAs have.
[00:16:20] Adam Charnek: A pine bomb just sounds like my worst nightmare.
[00:16:23] Marcus Baskerville: Oh, I love them. I love them.
[00:16:25] Adam Charnek: So you're in San Diego. What is the beer scene like right now? Because we're talking to all these California breweries, this weird time in craft. What's it look like?
[00:16:34] Marcus Baskerville: Nothing has changed. And by that, I mean, people are still foaming at the mouth for beer and IPAs. I mean, that's why I moved there. The customer in San Diego is so seasoned and so used to craft beer because of the strong scene with Stone and Ballast Point, Green Flash, Carl Strauss, Pizza Port. The demand just keeps growing. I know some breweries have fallen on hard times, but that does not affect the consumer at all. They continue to drink, and as people turn the age 21, they discover craft beer and they get into it. So it's a really good market still.
[00:17:11] Justin Fonte: You heard what David Walker said earlier this morning. He was talking about basically romance, you know, the romance of being a craft brewer and how we need to embrace that. There's this trend of chasing all these other types of beverages and categories that, you know, a lot of larger players are playing in. You've been pretty dedicated to being a craft brewer.
[00:17:35] Marcus Baskerville: How does that message resonate with you? incredibly well. I'm so happy he said it because our mission statement, the first couple words say to make great beer. It doesn't say anything other than that. So that really, it gave me a lot of inspiration. It made me feel more confident in our approach to everything that we make beer and we love making beer and we're going to make great beer. And that's it. That's what got me into the industry was great beer, craft beer. It doesn't have to be craft, but just great beer. And yeah, it made me feel good. I think we're doing the right thing and we try and keep it simple. We focus on very few things and try and dedicate all of our focus to those very few things, just keeping it simple.
[00:18:19] Adam Charnek: While maintaining that mission to make great beer, what have you had to change or adapt to in your original plans for when you had the brewery?
[00:18:28] Marcus Baskerville: The main thing we've changed is we approach everything more with a business mindset. So decisions are made more now than ever on facts. So numbers versus feelings. This seems like a good plan. Yeah. But, you know, you're young and you're in craft beer, you want to do whatever you want and no one can tell you any different. You're going to make this stuff and I'm going to do it this way. And if the people don't like it, you know, F them. And we've never really had that approach. Thankfully, we've always really been dedicated to loving beer and that's what makes us happy. But yeah, I think the main thing has changed is how decisions are made and having to make decisions based off of profitability and it's business decisions, but we're not going to strip our core down to make more money because that's not what we're good at. We're great at making beer and we want to run a great company, a great brewery. Yeah, it's just decision making and how those decisions come about and it's different. But we've been living it for a couple of years now, probably since COVID hit is when all that stuff happened, maybe 2019. But it's good. It's positioned us well. We have a strong brand. We've got a strong team. Everything's good.
[00:19:44] Justin Fonte: When you're getting in, you're new and everything is fun, whatever, you know, but then it is a business and you professionalize. You know, how does the culture change when you professionalize?
[00:19:55] Marcus Baskerville: It changes, and I think it changes for the better, at least from what we've seen. The unprofessional version of running a small brewery, you get burned out on it. I mean, how long can you actually go to a job with like, oh, it's just fun. We get to do whatever we want. I mean, that gets old pretty quickly. When you can actually set goals and achieve them through dedicated execution, everybody's happier. I mean, nobody likes to bartend if you're sitting around the whole time doing whatever you want. People want to bartend when they're making money and making tips. So being able to actualize and then communicate to the team of here, now that we have professionalized, we've grown up, we're kind of out of our adolescence, we're in our adulthood now. Here's what actually happens when we do all the right work. People get raises, you get better benefits. We can buy things that keep the place clean. We can buy better ingredients, you know, all these different different things. So at the onset, it might feel a little weird, but everybody loves it now. And I think you grow as a professional, which As you mature, that's what you want. I think it's fulfilling to do that. And so that's kind of how we've changed everything.
[00:21:09] Justin Fonte: I love that you're keeping the place clean now.
[00:21:11] Marcus Baskerville: Yeah, well, it's always been clean, but if we need a new part, we can get it. Right. And it's not like, all right, just use some duct tape and some zip ties. We actually have functioning equipment. We have a maintenance department. We have backup parts for everything. And that's the result of professionalizing everything.
[00:21:31] Adam Charnek: So if you're in this adult stage now, how are you still keeping things like fresh as a company and as a business for consumers?
[00:21:39] Marcus Baskerville: So keeping everything fresh and cool and relevant. We do seasonal beers and I think that's our best way of doing it. Seasonals and collaborations. So just as you know, I love Southwest Airlines and they fly the same planes into the same airports. They're regulated by the same Government bodies everybody else and they're able to innovate not necessarily on a product but an experience in an operation So what we try and do is, you know, we've already made the pupil the IPA. How can we make that better? Can we get better hops? So that's where a lot of our internally, like the fresh, cool, relevant stuff happens is, hey, the beer's getting better. The shelf life is now extended. We're able to do collaborations with other breweries and we can do a beer at their place or our place. And we get to learn a lot from them through that. But like all work, a lot of the times you're doing work and the fun stuff, you know, is few and far between, but it really makes it worth it. And I think that's where the, the R&D program that the specialty series and the collaborations come into place. But otherwise, we're just trying to execute on our plan and keep selling more people and make more profitable beer and sell a bunch of it.
[00:22:53] Justin Fonte: What's the biggest opportunity ahead this year?
[00:22:57] Marcus Baskerville: Biggest opportunity is, I'd say, more chain growth in San Diego and Southern California Craft that. But I'd say 80% of our beers in San Diego, we're still not even close to where we could be from a demand standpoint from what the market wants. So it's really just growing that brand, ensuring that the quality is top notch and that's not falling by the wayside. That's our biggest internal opportunity is the beer gets better as we grow. And the more beer we can sell, the happier customers are going to be because they clearly like the beer. So it's really. just a continuing evolution that kind of never ends. It's like one of those like, and you look in a mirror and there's a mirror behind you and it just like keeps going and going and going. Like there is no end.
[00:23:46] Justin Fonte: And you're still excited about it though.
[00:23:47] Marcus Baskerville: Yeah. Yes. And everybody is. It's the best thing in the whole entire world. It's my favorite thing. I love it. And I wake up and I kick my heels together and I sprint to the brewery. And my wife even says it. She's like, you get out of this house so fast. I love it. And everyone there loves it. It's awesome.
[00:24:08] Justin Fonte: You're like Fred Flintstone.
[00:24:10] Marcus Baskerville: Yeah. Oh, I can't wait to get there. It's my happy place. What do you guys say?
[00:24:16] Adam Charnek: I just think all of our audio listeners should see that Doug has the biggest smile on his face while he's saying this, so it's true.
[00:24:23] Marcus Baskerville: It really is. We have such an incredible thing going in beer, and we shouldn't forget what got us into this. And doing your best is the best thing you can possibly do.
[00:24:37] Justin Fonte: What's the biggest challenge right now for California Craft brewers?
[00:24:41] Marcus Baskerville: The biggest challenge, I mean notoriously the state is very expensive to operate in. Wage inflation, cost of goods inflation, tax inflation, those are numbers things. So trying to navigate that and still be profitable is difficult, it's challenging, it's doable, but that's definitely our as California brewers, I mean, I've always said that California is the worst state to run a business in, the best state to start a brewery in, and Texas is probably the best state to start a business in and the worst state to run a brewery in. And that's not true, Texas, I'm just saying. I'm from Houston, so.
[00:25:19] Justin Fonte: I'm sure more than a few people would say that the laws in Texas don't favor breweries.
[00:25:24] Marcus Baskerville: And that's for a lot of states. In California, we're very fortunate with the wine industry exploding in the 70s. Craft beer really kicking off in the 80s. A lot of laws are very favorable to alcohol manufacturers. So we've got that on our side. Yeah, challenging. Same thing that a lot of people are going through. Inflation hits everybody. Cost of living in Southern California continues to skyrocket. That's never going to end. So being able to maintain profitability while increasing pay and navigating inflation, it's tough. But nothing's ever been easy. I think beer brewing companies have always had challenges. For the past 150 years, it's been challenging. It's going to continue to be challenging. And yeah, put me in. Let me take that challenge.
[00:26:16] Justin Fonte: It's like David Walker laid out. In the mid 90s, it was getting distribution, getting just the equipment to make smaller batches of beer. All of those things were issues then. Those aren't big barriers to entry now.
[00:26:29] Marcus Baskerville: Right. Yeah. Now it's just how well of a company can you run? How good is your business? If you look at your business as if it's its own product, how good of a job are you doing?
[00:26:39] Justin Fonte: Well, thanks for doing this, Doug. Thank y'all. Y'all are the best. And that's our show for this week. Thanks to Jess and Zoe for hopping on a very fast recording. Thanks to all of you for listening. And thanks to our one man audio team, Joe. We'll be back next week.
