Brewbound Podcast: Bart Watson Shares His Vision for the Brewers Association

[00:00:00] Justin Kendall: Heading to CBC? Kick things off the day before at Brewbound's meetup at Love City Brewing in Philly, Sunday, April 19th from 5 to 7 p.m. Connect with beer industry leaders, grab a drink, and catch up with the Brewbound team. It's free to attend and walking distance from the convention center. Head to Brewbound.com slash lovecity.rsvp. And don't forget to catch the Brewbound team at booth 956 during CBC. Next on the Brewbound Podcast, we're joined by Bart Watson, the next president and CEO of the Brewers Association. Hello and welcome to the Brewbound Podcast. I'm Justin Kendall.

[00:00:50] Jessica Infante: I'm Jessica Infante. And I'm Zoe Licata.

[00:00:53] Justin Kendall: And this week, we have a special Brewbound Podcast. We're going to jump right into it. Our special guest is here now. And that's Bart Watson, the next president and CEO of the Brewers Association. Congratulations, Bart. Thank you. Very excited to be here. Well, we're excited to have you and you know, we'll just jump into it because You have the benefit of 12 years at the BA. You're not coming in cold. You know the lay of the land. So what's the first order of business when you take over on January 6th?

[00:01:29] Bart Watson: Yeah, I do have a lot of benefits coming in as someone who's been in the industry a long time and watching the market for a long time. You know, that said, this is a very different role. So I think that the first order of business is to do what we should always be doing, which is reconnect with our members. You know, Brewer'Brewers Association and any trade association exists to solve collective problems that members can't solve individually. And, you know, I think one of the things we've seen is how much change has occurred in the industry in the last five years. as aware of that as anyone. And so I think my first order of business is to go out to the members and really get a sense of, is the Brewers Association solving the right problems for you right now? Or are there other challenges out there that we can step up and, in that role as a collective actor for our members, shift our activities and spend more time on other things? So I'm excited to do that. I'm excited to connect with our members in a new way, in a new role, where I'm not just talking about the market with them, but more of what we do holistically as an association and look forward to doing that a lot over the first month or two of the job.

[00:02:31] Brewers Association: Awesome. Well, initially, when Bob announced he was going to be retiring last summer, we chatted with him, just like we're chatting with you right now, and he said he was looking at maybe June of 25. Obviously, that's changed. His last day is going to be January 3rd. My hunch is that Bob realized he could be retired for the second half of ski season, Am I wrong? Is there something else happening that drove that decision?

[00:02:53] Bart Watson: I don't think it's any coincidence. We've had really good November, December snow here in Colorado. But I mean, more seriously, I think, you know, Bob always wanted to make the transition at a time that was best for the association and so was willing to stay on through June if that was necessary to find a successor. And I think this was just the timeline that worked best for the board and the selection process. And, you know, Bob has been so wonderful throughout all of the transition. And so once we had a replacement in place, he was ready to step aside at any time.

[00:03:24] Brewers Association: And it's a replacement that knows the organization inside and out. So it's not like he's got to do a whole lot of orientation.

[00:03:30] Bart Watson: Yeah, I think that that helped as well, that there was confidence that transition and that, you know, I was ready to run on day one, whereas some other candidates might not have been.

[00:03:38] Jessica Infante: You mentioned wanting to communicate with members about what they're seeking from the BA, but what is your own vision for what the BA is doing for folks, how it is going to evolve moving forward?

[00:03:51] Bart Watson: Yeah, I think one of the things you've seen us do in the last few years that I hope to continue and build on is a shift from, you know, really solely promoting the craft category and thinking about craft beer to thinking holistically around what our members businesses need and trying to support that in different ways. You've seen that in some of our events and kind of more total beverage education. And this is something we've been doing for a while. I mean, we published, Brewer's Publications published a seltzer book years ago. But I think that's a place where as the market has changed, there's been a greater need of our members for collective business resources, maybe a little bit less than the technical, partly because I think we've done a great job building a library of resources there on some of those technical things. And so I think one of the places we're going to be looking is What more can we do on the business side and more holistically supporting members businesses, be that different products, different business models, and helping them navigate some of the changes in the marketplace? Because I think that's really the central challenge our members face is that the market's not the same that it was five years ago. And when you build a business model around one market, it can be difficult to navigate and transition to this new one. So I think we have some ideas about things we can do there, you know, around our events, which you're already seeing shifting, but also around, you know, how we lobby and advocate for our members. And then finally, the resources we bring to them.

[00:05:11] Justin Kendall: You've been a front facing part of the BA for a long time, and you've had a front row seat to see Bob in this role your entire tenure. But how do you sort of see the role of president and CEO evolving under you?

[00:05:28] Bart Watson: Yeah, that's a great question. And it has been great to be in that front row seat and see Bob work and see how he balances the many parts of the job, since the president's side is more internally focused looking, the CEO side more externally. And I'm sure there's going to be a learning curve there as I figure that out and figure out how many different people we work with and how we work there. I think one of the things that I'm most excited is to bring my analytical mind to to some of the things that we do. And that's not saying Bob didn't have one of those. But, you know, bring that market perspective to the job and really understanding some of those member challenges. I think you've already gotten a theme here. You know, my goal is, you know, we always have been member centric, but be kind of ruthlessly member centric in what we deliver. I think one of the other things that I'm passionate about is just kind of assessment of what we do. So I think you might see us iterate a little bit more. And again, that's not a critique of what we've been doing, but I'm a believer that our association needs to evolve with the needs of our members. And so I'm going to try to up that pace of change a little bit. As we do something, let's get feedback. Let's see what we need to change. I'm sure you're doing that with the Rebound Live events every year. And the BA has been pretty successful at this over time. Look at where GABF was, where it is now, where CBC was, where it is now, where our lobbying efforts were and where they are now. But I think we just need to continue to accelerate that pace. And so that's one thing I'm excited to bring my perspective on and think about how we assess those changes, iterate those changes and continue to evolve.

[00:07:01] Brewers Association: What piece of the CEO and president role are you looking forward to the most?

[00:07:06] Bart Watson: I think there's a lot. I mean, you know, I'm excited about this position, A, because I'm passionate about our organization and so want to see it succeed. And, you know, I've loved being the chief economist and doing the stats and data, but I'm also really excited about some of the new pieces that I'm going to take on in this role. You know, I've served on our government affairs team since I started at the BA and my PhD is actually in political science, not in economics. So I'm really excited about diving in there as one example, and being a little bit more the face, you know, along with our great team. I mean, Katie Marisic, Mark Cerini, and Sam DeWitt are some of the best of the best in beverage, alcohol, government affairs. So I'm not going to supplant them, but to support them and to take on a new role that aids in those government affairs efforts, and maybe is a little more direct in working with like our congressional champions and things like that. So I'm excited about that. And more broadly, I'm excited to just have an opportunity to imprint my thoughts on the strategy of an association that I love and I'm passionate about. Obviously, I had opportunities to influence that in the previous role, but moving up to president and CEO just gives me more of an opportunity to bring some of my ideas about how we can help our members to more parts of our organization.

[00:08:19] Jessica Infante: Are you still going to be diving into the numbers at all? Are you going to be taking a break from that?

[00:08:24] Bart Watson: Well, I do have a webinar tomorrow, which was probably in the past by the time this podcast goes live. So I'm not going to completely give up the numbers right away. And, you know, I think I'm certainly not going to be doing the day-to-day stats and data analysis that I was. Mac Asiak's awesome VA members are in good hands there. I am interested in trying to stay connected with the market. and stay connected with that. I think that's an important perspective for a leader of an org like ours to have, to really understand what are the challenges our members face and what's going on out there. But yeah, I'm not going to be crunching as many numbers as I was, or if I am now, they're budget numbers as opposed to brewery survey numbers.

[00:09:02] Jessica Infante: I don't know if that's as exciting, unfortunately.

[00:09:05] Bart Watson: Yeah. It was a pretty cool job. I'm pretty sure everyone from grad school was really jealous to have it. And maybe they'll be jealous now, but in a different way.

[00:09:15] Incoming Brewers: This episode is brought to you by the Craft Brewers Conference, where big ideas, bold beers, and brutally honest shop talk collide. Join thousands of industry pros leveling up their game. Don't miss it. Register now at CraftBrewersConference.com.

[00:09:35] Jessica Infante: You mentioned that all these businesses are kind of dabbling in different things now. How are you going to be able to balance making sure all the needs of all those folks are met? Because that's a big ask.

[00:09:48] Bart Watson: Yeah, can we meet all the needs of all of our members? No. I mean, that was never going to be possible and hasn't been possible. I think what we need to do is prioritize and really focus on where are the key needs and how are those evolving. And as members go into new products, that doesn't mean necessarily like, hey, we're shifting all of our efforts now. And because 600 breweries have distilleries that our technical team is only going to do distilled spirits content. But one of the commonalities now around the challenges that breweries face know, maybe it's they need more help in navigating beverage alcohol laws just generally. And, you know, that's not product specific. It's one where we could provide a framework that helps a member whether they make beer or they make multiple products. So I think we're going to look for ways that we can, you know, stay true to the core of what we do, which again is solving problems collectively for members they can't individually, and then prioritizing those to the ones that rise to the top for the vast majority of our members. Are the problems of your local brewpub the same as a regional or nationally distributed packaging brewery? No, but I think we can find places where our efforts in government affairs, our efforts in resource creation are broadly applicable across both those businesses and provide both of them value.

[00:10:59] Justin Kendall: I'm glad you brought up those differences because, I mean, the constituency is so large and it's so varied. I mean, you can have a brewery that's making a million barrels and you can also have one that's making, you know, 50 or 500, you know. And like you said, it's trying to find the commonalities there. But I think there's a real challenge in sort of threading the needle and in meeting those needs, as well as like speaking to those breweries and, you know, sort of rallying them.

[00:11:32] Bart Watson: Yeah, I'd say a couple of things. One, we're lucky to have the resources and capacity. We can do more than one thing. So where we see, hey, here's a top-pressing need for that 50-barrel brewpub, and here's one for regional craft breweries. We have the ability to do both. And we can't do everything, as I just said, but I think we can try to support those breweries holistically when there are things that differ. Another thing I'd say is I think we've done and found good places where both of those breweries can share in some of the things we provide. I'll point to stats and data. Certainly, as you get up in a certain size, people have data analysts, but the way we've structured the Brewer'Brewers Association stats and econ program, It's not about analyzing a single company's data. It's providing that context and that base of insights that any brewery, whether they're a 50-barrel brew pub or they're Sierra Nevada or whoever, are going to be able, hopefully, to get something from and incorporate into whatever system that they have, thinking about their business, thinking about evolving it. Similarly, our events, GABF and CBC is the two primary ones, have opportunities for commerce and community and education for everyone. We're working hard to really try to think about those differences there and make sure that the packaging brewer who shows up with their specialized technical team is getting the same experience, great experience at CBC that maybe a brew pub who it's the head brewer, janitor, bartender all in one. So, you know, that's a challenge and we're going to have to do that. But that's, again, where that's why we have so many talks and we have so many tracks. And I think we can create community experiences that serve both of those. And that's where we have to stay focused is riding those tensions and finding ways to serve them all.

[00:13:20] Brewers Association: Probably a premature thought right now, but do you get any sense that the organization might consider changing the definition of a craft grower now that we've seen so much change in the market?

[00:13:30] Bart Watson: I mean, the history of the VA says that we are going to evolve the definition as our members evolve. This is not a, hey, BART's breaking news that the definition's going to change, but we try to represent our members and we try to have the definition represent that. So the definition is really a guiding tool for us as we think about who we serve and what we're working for. And as our members evolve, I think it's only going to be natural that we'll look at that again. The board tends to do that every few years and do a little bit of that broader visioning. And I'll stress the board's role there, too. I mean, this is done not by staff. This is not going to be my job, but by our members themselves and really thinking about who are we and making sure that we as staff have the guidance we need to serve them. So, you know, the history of the VA tells us we're going to do that because we've done it over time in increasingly inclusive ways. That's typically the way the VA does it is we move from a few small breweries who all looked exactly the same because they were, you know, the same people in the same places, you know, with this. new revolution to one where we have a really big tent community, and the definition has broadened to recognize that. My sense is that's going to happen again, because what I see in the marketplace is continued diversification in what people are doing in business model. We did that recently with recognizing more brewers were moving to contract brewing as a way to start up their breweries, and to be inclusive to that, to change the definition there. Will we do that again? Probably. And, you know, well, I think, again, we'll do that in ways that we think and our members think makes sense with the evolutions of what's going on in their business.

[00:15:09] Jessica Infante: The BA is responsible for advocating for your members, but you also have to be able to sustain the work you're doing and keep the business going at the end of the day. And that relies on things like membership dues, and those are difficult to come by these days. So you've had some changes at the BA to kind of address that, like the work that you're doing with Dr. J on memberships and strategy, but what other things are you looking at to maybe adjust that approach and help address those needs?

[00:15:36] Bart Watson: Yeah, I'll go back to the core of what I talk about, what we do and what our business model is. The BA as a trade association, we solve problems for our members that they can't solve themselves. When we do that well, they give us money for that to reinvest and do that again. That's true in our membership dues, where we're providing resources on technical things, stats and econ, other topics, increasingly business, HR, stuff like that. That's true at our events. GABF, that's more consumers where their revenue comes from, but CBC is another good example where our supplier members, our brewery members, when we are providing a valuable event there for the types of things they need, education, commerce, community, fun, then they're going to come back and they're going to give us money. So I think the main thing we just need to be laser focused on is, our members who we are serving. If we're doing that well, if we're solving problems for them, if CBC is something that we give the insights that are important enough that they feel like it changed their business in a meaningful way over the course of the year, they're going to come back. I'm not going to point to specific, oh, we need structural changes. We need to be laser focused on how we can serve our members best. If we do that well, I think the financial side is going to take care of itself.

[00:16:59] Justin Kendall: When you're looking ahead, what do you see is the biggest opportunity for the BA?

[00:17:04] Bart Watson: You know, I mean, I think there's things that, you know, we can explore around our events and, you know, continuing to, to grow those, you know, we've seen some of those with GABF and I think we introduced a lot of great energy at GABF for those who were there last year. And so how can we build on that to. translate a lot of that excitement from the attendees to getting more people back in and then using that event in the way that solves a problem for members around promoting their products, promoting the category, getting that excitement back where you walked in the hall in GBF 10 years ago, and it was just palpable. People knew they were in the place for the day for the category. So I think that's an opportunity to continue to build that back up and get it to a place where it's relevant to today's beer drinker, today's beverage alcohol consumer, and so in doing so promotes our members in the way that we need to. Similarly, I think we've seen some opportunities there around competitions and promoting our members' products more broadly. It took a small step there with cider, and I think we'll be continuing to think about how we can do that and make sure our members feel like they're getting the feedback on their products they need, which is one role those competition serves, and then getting the promotion for the ones who are doing it world-class. In education, I think there's going to be huge opportunities for us to continue evolving what we are providing to members and keeping that relevant and to grow that membership base back up. I see boundless opportunity. I'll say here too, I'm not naive that it's a challenging time for the industry, but my message to staff as I was introduced is around the opportunity that creates. our role is in solving problems for members. And while you don't want to wish an environment like this on anyone, it creates an opportunity for a trade association like us to solve those problems, because our members really have challenges. They really have problems today. So within that context, I think it's not boundless and funds are going to be limited in a world where growth is more challenging. But I certainly think we have an opportunity to really step up for our members. And if we show them that we can be a part of the solution in a challenging market, that's going to mean good things for the association and then allow us to reinvest in doing that even more.

[00:19:17] Jessica Infante: One thing with your new role is, whether you know this or not, you are now part of the beer dads, as we like to refer to them as, the leaders of all these beer trade organizations. And I'm curious to know what are your thoughts on how you see working with some of those other trade groups, because they operate a little bit differently than the BA does, but we have seen some more collaboration recently.

[00:19:41] Bart Watson: Yeah, I think we've developed a great working relationship, and I've had an opportunity to see it with Bob, and also start to develop that relationship with some of the other leaders. Brian and Craig were both people I reached out to for advice as I began this process, and were both super helpful. So thanks to both of them for what they provided to me is thinking about what it's like to be a beverage alcohol CEO. I think as we're seeing with a lot of the issues that are occurring in Washington, D.C. and just more broadly right now, that there's a huge opportunity for the beverage alcohol groups to be more aligned and to work more closely together on some of the challenges we face. We're going to have a lot of dietary guidelines news in the coming weeks. Some of it's been reported on, I think there's more coming. And I think that's shown us that when we're working together as team beer, and at times team beverage alcohol, pulling in other groups outside of beer, that we can accomplish more and that our voice is a lot stronger. So super excited to continue working with those groups now in a new role than I did before. But I think there's a lot we can accomplish together and certainly not thinking the BA is gonna be going alone on any of this stuff.

[00:20:48] Brewers Association: One thing that always sticks out to me about the BA that's different from the Beer Institute and the National Beer Wholesalers Association is that the BA does a good job at speaking to the public. You guys do some consumer work as evidenced by GABF. And I think part of what your work there in communicating the joys and benefits of craft beer to the public is because you're helping create a market for your members, but how important is that going to be moving forward and how are you looking at what the BA's role in market development is right now?

[00:21:20] Bart Watson: I'm glad you raised that because that's another one that's certainly been on my mind and how that needs to evolve. I mean, there was a time and a place where I think that work was essential as the average beer drinker didn't know a lot about craft beer. And so some of our consumer education work and craftbeer.com and the craft beer program, you know, Julia Herz led that for many years, just teaching customers like, What's a brown ale? You know, what do these beer words mean? Giving them a language and a common language, you know, to brewers as well as they worked with customers, because often it's not just what we do directly to the consumer, but we can provide frameworks then that our members can leverage and we can get that multiplying effect. I think we need to rethink that. The customer's in a different place. I think we've learned from some of our more recent efforts that it's harder and harder to speak directly to the customer. I think you'll continue to see us try to do things that all of our members can leverage. What those are is going to be evolving over time, but I think we're going to continue to look for places where, hey, if we can provide messaging points or frames around events to members, that might be helpful. I also think you asked about market development that there might be more opportunities to for us to work with other partners, you know, retailers or distributors. You know, I see more interest in that from our members and getting some of the education of how do I be more sophisticated with my distributors? Or how do I, you know, approach a chain retailer for the first time? And so I think there's some opportunities there we have around things that I think are a little more traditional lane for a trade association to help educate our members and connect them with distributors and retailers in new ways. So I don't think we're going to step out of the consumer lane, but it's a different era than it was when we were at the height of kind of speaking to the consumer and we're going to need to continue to evolve there like in all things.

[00:23:03] Justin Kendall: Do you see that evolving too as far as like, you know, we saw the introduction of the seal a few years ago and really the push on independent craft. Do you see that messaging maybe changing in the future?

[00:23:17] Bart Watson: I think, you know, that's one, again, where the times change and the needs change. So, you know, certainly I think talking about our brewers and that independence story was a critical one at one point when there was more acquisitions. And so market access was something that our members were highly concerned about. I mean, you know, most of these things aren't originating with the BA. We're hearing from our members, help, this is a challenge we face. And we want you to go out and try to find a way to solve it. And there, the seal was formed around a very real fear of our members as powerful companies entered spaces with brands that looked like theirs, that the customer wouldn't know the difference, the price points would be different. And so the seal was our opportunity to close a gap we saw. Customers cared about this and they didn't know. And if we could educate them, we could help our members explain why, well, maybe my price point's a little bit different than somebody who's making these things in, you know, for mentors that are the size of my entire brewery. And so I think, back to your question, I've gone off a little bit here, but back to your question, I think what we're going to have to do on things like that is also going to have to evolve for the time. One of the things we do is we can provide a collective voice for our members. We can tell their story. And today that might less be about differentiating independent and non-independent. It might mean more about like, hey, here's things breweries do in the community that make it worth visiting them during months of the year when it's slow, even if you're not going to drink. It might be around some of the new products they're making and helping people have a framework for understanding, it's not just a brewery, it's a beverage company, and they make lots of great things for the whole family, multi-generation. So bring the grandparents and bring the kids if they're above 21, or we don't have to go into kitchen breweries here. I'm not going to start my CEO tenure with opening up that can of worms.

[00:25:02] Jessica Infante: Quite a controversial first take.

[00:25:04] Bart Watson: I know. Anyway, I think the basic point is that, you know, we need to keep thinking about how we engage in the places where our members need that voice of joint communication, but it's not going to be in the same way as that it was in the past because those challenges aren't the same.

[00:25:20] Brewers Association: I think that's a great place to leave it. I think I remember exactly what I had to do as soon as that seal debuted. And it was a lot of work to get all of our packaging and POS changed because it was a big deal. And you're right, the market is different now. acquisitions happen and there's not. We don't need to go down this rabbit hole either, but people's passions are arranged differently these days and it's a whole new world for craft beer. And I think, I don't want to speak on behalf of Justin and Zoe, but I think we're really excited for you and we can't wait to see where all of this goes.

[00:25:57] Bart Watson: Yeah, well, thank you. Appreciate that. And I'm excited, too. I mean, I see it as a huge opportunity to see what we can accomplish for our members. And I'm super honored that the B.A. board entrusted me with the responsibility. I don't take it lightly, and I'm excited to be here.

[00:26:12] Justin Kendall: We're excited to see how it goes. So best of luck, Bart. And thanks for the time. And thanks to Jess and Zoe for all they do. Thanks to our audio team. Thanks to everyone for listening. Happy holidays. We'll see you next week.