Brewbound Podcast: Anderson Valley Brewing’s Jason McConnell on Taking the Reins of a Beloved Brand

[00:00:00] Justin Kendall: Heading to CBC? Kick things off the day before at Brewbound's meetup at Love City Brewing in Philly, Sunday, April 19th from 5 to 7 p.m. Connect with beer industry leaders, grab a drink, and catch up with the Brewbound team. It's free to attend and walking distance from the convention center. Head to Brewbound.com slash lovecity.rsvp. And don't forget to catch the Brewbound team at booth 956 during CBC.

[00:00:28] Jessica Infante: It's the last Brewbound podcast episode of 2025. Hello and welcome back to the Brewbound podcast for one more time this year. I'm Jessica Infante. And I'm Zoe Licata. Zoe, how are you doing?

[00:00:51] Zoe Licata: I'm doing good. I'm back in Boston. I wish I was still in Western Mass a little bit in the snowy mountains, but had a lovely Christmas. How are you? Very nice.

[00:01:02] Jessica Infante: I am good. I am at the Jersey Shore where there's no snow. How much snow do you have in Boston?

[00:01:06] Zoe Licata: Boston, not too much. I think they got just like a couple inches and it's all washing away right now if you hear rain in the background. But Western Mass got a good four or five inches.

[00:01:17] Jessica Infante: Yeah, I was in North Jersey from Christmas Day until yesterday, which was Sunday the 28th at my brother's house and we got a bunch of snow too, which was nice.

[00:01:26] Zoe Licata: Yeah, nice little white Christmas or bladed Christmas. A white boxing day. Yeah. Right?

[00:01:33] Jessica Infante: Yeah. Super festive. Well, this is our last episode of the year, which I don't know how that happened, but here we are, and it's been a whole year. You did a great job recapping the most listened to Brewbound podcast episodes from each month, which I thought was a smart way to handle it because the data is funny when the episodes just stay out, you know.

[00:01:53] Zoe Licata: Right. Right. If we did just, which we have done in the past, just the 10 most listened to episodes of the year. There's a lot of January and February that shows up in there because folks, you know, as time passes, the old episodes are naturally going to have the most downloads. So we mixed it up this year. We did the most listened to episode for each month. So you get, well, technically 13 in this edition. We had a little bonus one. But that's been fun to kind of look back. There is a lot of stuff in there that I forgot we had talked about or just feels like a million years ago because it really was. But yeah, it was a jam-packed year on the podcast.

[00:02:33] Jessica Infante: Yeah, it was. Well, we are going to close out strong with somebody at the center of a deal that we talked about several times this year. This week's featured interview is with Jason McConnell. He acquired Anderson Valley Brewing earlier in the year, I think like March, April-ish. He sat down with Justin, who is still on parental leave at the California Craft Beer Summit in November. But you'll remember that Jason acquired Anderson Valley from a friend of the pod. Kevin McGee and his family who had acquired Anderson Valley just before COVID. And we've had Kevin back on the pod since. We've talked about them listing the business. We've talked about the sale. So lots going on there. Definitely kind of encapsulates a lot of what Kraft has been through in the past year. So this is a great one to end on. But before we get to that, you and I are gonna break down some of the most read stories on the website this year, which were, they had some themes. And the largest, definitely most prevailing theme was just like AB. Four of our top most read stories all have to do with Anheuser-Busch InBev.

[00:03:40] Zoe Licata: Yeah a lot of AB. Yeah Zoe what do you make of that? I don't know there's a lot of ways you could look at it. One way I think of is naturally AB is going to have a lot of eyeballs on it and seeing how they are managing what seems to be this kind of image change or trying to be very outspoken about what they want their new image to be and so folks are paying attention to what they're doing for that, how they're making different business decisions to address what is still an issue with Bud Light and that lost volume and how they're refocusing on things like Beyond Beer and Niccolo Boltra. And so there's a lot of stuff going on with AB that people are paying attention to to see what works out, what doesn't. I didn't expect it to be this much of our top stories, that's for sure.

[00:04:32] Jessica Infante: Me either. Like kind of shocking. The most read stories, the most recent. which was the news that broke during Brewbound Live that AB would be selling their Newark, New Jersey brewery and closing their breweries in Merrimack, New Hampshire in Fairfield, California. We just recapped that on the pod like a week or two ago, so you don't have to scroll back too far to find that one. But huge news, that's them shrinking their 12 major brewery facility network to nine. So that's like a 25% cut. Math is not my strong suit, but the second most read story I literally had totally forgotten about and it broke on like what the second day of 2025. which is that Pabst was tapping AB for some contract production, which is interesting because Pabst does have a long running deal with Citi to brew for them. That's a deal that goes through 2040, but they had also been using Molson Corey's to supplement and they had agreed to wind that down, which took years. And they're hitting up AB for some of that, notably using AB's brewery in the Houston area to make Lone Star, which made sense. So there's that and then another AB brewing facility story that cracked the list was the third most read story was that they were shutting down their Portsmouth, New Hampshire craft brewery, which has been through a lot of different phases in its life. It started with Red Hook under Craft Brew Alliance and then you know, AB finally bought out the rest of CBA that it didn't own. And they had kind of branded it as like a mainland production hub for Cisco, which is the brewery that AB owns, you know, rights to off Nantucket. And then they announced that they were shutting that down and investing in Wicked Weeds facility down in Asheville, North Carolina, which also tracks with what they've done elsewhere in their craft network. They've invested in Golden Roads facility in Anaheim, California. and a lesions facility in Seattle. And you'll see it on Circona's list of the top 30 craft brands. You know, AB does pretty well with Wicked Weed and a lesion. You don't really see Cisco popping. So you kind of see, you know, they're making the investments in the facility with where the dollars show up in scan data. One honorable mention in the AB theme, which also belonged to another theme of our top 10 most read stories, was the sale of New York's wholly owned distributor to Southern Glaciers. That broke sometime in the fall. That was huge, huge news, but that follows the theme of AB selling off their wads for the most part. There have been rare instances where AB's wholly owned distributor network acquires a distributor, but usually it goes the other way. And this was certainly one of those, you know, the year before AB had sold their, their Boston distributor. So here they are selling New York to Southern Glaciers.

[00:07:19] Zoe Licata: Yeah, which as you mentioned was just one of many, many distribution stories that hit in 2025. And that I did expect to see a lot on our top 10 list, which we did see because I feel like that was one of the biggest themes of this year was just distribution, consolidation and mergers and acquisitions and all those fun things when it comes to that middle tier.

[00:07:43] Jessica Infante: Totally. So one of the biggest stories on that front was that hand family companies created the Sunset Distributing subsidiary, which then acquired Stone Distributing and Classic Beverage in Southern California. Eventually they also added Scout, which was a boutique craft distributor in LA. Other California distro news was that RNDC announced that they were leaving the state entirely. News that broke, I think, before the summer and then went into effect in September. That came after several major Spirit Suppliers announcing that they were leaving RNDC and going elsewhere. And that created a huge shift. You know, we've talked about that in the pod before. We've had, you know, Spirits Editor Ferron Salniker join us, as did Dave Infante came on to an episode earlier this year to talk about all of that. So if you're interested, scroll back in the feed and you'll find a robust conversation about that topic.

[00:08:35] Zoe Licata: Yeah, and we're definitely going to continue to see how that landscape changes in 2026 because of some of those moves. I also want to shout out the distribution panel that we had at Brewbound Live, which you can find that video on Brewbound.com. But we had J.R. Hand from Hand Family Companies, which is the parent company of Sunset, talking a little bit about their plans for that. So definitely check that out. But it's something we'll continue to pay attention to in the New Year.

[00:09:02] Jessica Infante: And then farther down the list of the most read stories is where we get into what I thought were going to be the most read stories this year, which was the death of some major craft brands. More recently, Rogue out of Oregon, which filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy last month. And earlier this fall, 21st Amendment out of California announced that they were shutting down operations. Those are major, major craft players of pre taproom wave of craft beer. So to see these breweries closes, it shouldn't be shocking given the state of things, but it's never not jarring. And we've said this a million times on this podcast. You know, if you are paying attention, you know that it's been a tough road for a lot of brands like this. So, you know, we probably unfortunately should expect to see more similar closures coming, but those two were big. And then, you know, also in this bucket of crafts downturn, We also had a story, Crack the Tap Tap, which was that Boston Beer was closing its two taproom facilities in Los Angeles, Angel City, which was a craft beer brand that BBC had acquired a long time ago and really built up in the area. And then they'd also opened like an experiential taproom for Truly Hard Seltzer in LA. Both of those are closing and the company was hoping to find a buyer for the Angel City brand. So that was the eighth most read story in 2025.

[00:10:23] Zoe Licata: in our podcast episode where we talked about that also made our top list this year. So folks quite interested in those moves.

[00:10:31] Jessica Infante: The people were interested. And then there is one tiny little silver lining, I think. Yeah. And that's the entire industries, you know. Hopes, positive vibes, and warm feelings are all pinned on Sierra Nevada. Sierra Nevada's innovation slate for 2026 was our ninth most read story this year. And that featured Brewbound's product of the year, new product of the year. I forget what we call that award category, but Sierra Nevada's Pills was really the star of this particular story, which is their European style pills that launched on draft and has rolled out in little tiny baby cans, little 8.4 ounce, you know, Euro slim cans that we are all apparently quite smitten with, but so were all of you.

[00:11:22] Zoe Licata: It was kind of the one entirely positive story on the top 10. I mean, some of these stories, like the distro stuff, not necessarily negative, but it's big changes. And this was the one that was like, no, look, here's a craft brewery that's doing something. And people wanted to know what was happening, what was working. So that was nice to see there was at least one positive thing in all of that distress. Right. You know, we try to bring the people some good news.

[00:11:57] Anderson Valley: Yeah.

[00:12:17] Jessica Infante: Well, just because it's like the weird between Christmas and New Year's time doesn't mean that the news stops. So I think we should just hit a couple headlines from things that have broken in the past couple of weeks. One from our teammate, Farron, who got shouted out earlier. Farron's the spirits editor. She focuses a lot on, you know, spirits-based RTDs, a lot of adult non-ALC. Arguably, I think Farron has probably the, one of the more interesting beats in media. But Farron got details on a new product coming out of Stateside Brands, which is, of course, Surfside's parent company. And Stateside is jumping on the sports Bev-inspired RTD trend and releasing what is called Super Light, light with a Y. and ending with an E. Vodka-infused aid, using the quotes here, inspired by sports beverages. Now I'm just straight up reading from Farron's story, but flavors are gonna be fruit punch, orange, lemon, lime, and blue magic. 4.5% ABV, only 90 calories a serving. Rollout's gonna be in the Northeast and parts of the Southeast, and it should be interesting, but this is so not the only similar beverage we've seen. You know, there's also spiked aid,

[00:13:32] Zoe Licata: Spikeade out of New Jersey. We have Lightstrike from New Belgium. Those are the ones that were packaged in actual what looked like a sports drink container. Yeah, there's been a couple pushes from folks. They've had mixed results. I think New Belgium has admitted that Lightstrike hasn't gone exactly how they thought it was going to do, but it maybe wasn't placed in the right way or packaged in the right way, and they're sticking to it, just reevaluating their strategy for that.

[00:14:01] Jessica Infante: Yeah, interesting to me they're not giving up on it and kudos to them for that's a pretty quick turnaround from launch to, oh shit, this isn't really working.

[00:14:10] Zoe Licata: Yeah, and we've definitely seen plenty of products that have gone out, had similar results in a similar period of time and have been taken away. And I think they're acknowledging that maybe there is potentially a market for these products still. They're figuring it out as they go along how you best bring that product to consumers. I know we were heavy critics of it and we have talked about it several times on the podcast and I'm still curious how long it sticks or if it becomes a staple of things. But I mean, you had recently, there's some folks drinking these products.

[00:14:46] Jessica Infante: Yeah, yesterday I was hanging out at my brother's house and he invited all of his high school buddies over for, you know, football Sunday. And one of them brought like a 12-pack of Spike Dates. I was like, Danny, like, what's up with this? He was like, I love this stuff. And I was like, do you? Interesting. This was like absolutely no prompting for me at all. He was like, I think this is going to be the next Surfside. Right? So, you know, we met the Spike Date team at MBWA. They were very gracious despite having heard us basically mock their product. But then we tried their product and we were like, oh, we were so wrong. It's delicious. Yeah. 4.5% alcohol with the same ABV range that the stateside super light is going to run in and we'll see what happens. But yeah, vodka based sports drink flavors. So you had a pretty good line about this when I texted you from this party yesterday.

[00:15:39] Zoe Licata: Yeah, these products have been marketed as, you know, for the Gen Z, for the youth. But this really might be the product for the millennials who really don't want to hangover.

[00:15:50] Jessica Infante: Yeah, man, I think you're right.

[00:15:51] Zoe Licata: Yeah. Which makes a lot of sense. So they're still drinking alcohol, still paying money for alcohol. but they have a lot more responsibilities than Gen Z does the next day after the drinking. So giving them something that potentially could help with that day after or make it be less worse than some other products could be useful. Could be useful.

[00:16:15] Jessica Infante: Well, not everybody is going to be drinking as of like next week, you know, so you did a little dive into some data from CGA on what people are planning for Dry January. What did you find?

[00:16:25] Zoe Licata: Yeah, it was very similar to last year's survey where about 40% of overall consumers said they planned to participate in Dry January. We know based off of a later survey that CGA released kind of midway through January of this year that folks don't necessarily stay on with Dry January through the full month. It goes down to I think it was like 20% midway through, maybe less. But what was more interesting was the demographic shifts or the differences based on what generation was answering the question. And about half of Gen Z respondents said they would participate in Dry January. So that was the largest percentage among folks. And it's really the Gen Xers that are causing it to be that 40%, be it lower. They are not as keen on Dry January. They're such an interesting bunch.

[00:17:15] Jessica Infante: We could talk about this for quite some time. Because they would always say that we're forgotten about. It's like, well, there's just not that many of you. Yeah. But yeah, being contrarian in their January plans. But before Dry January, Numerator consumer research firm put out some data about New Year's Eve. And it turns out that 57% of people who plan to celebrate New Year's Eve are going to buy alcohol. And one thing that I found really interesting in this report was that beer and champagne, top getters. So 55% of all survey respondents who are buying alcohol said they are buying beer and champagne. So that's, you know, could be a nice little occasion. I assume you want to keep your party going longer, which is why you have the... the drink of moderation, and then you also want to be a little festive when the ball drops. You could get a champagne and get a champagne of beers. Perfect. What are you doing for New Year's? Anything fun?

[00:18:09] Zoe Licata: Watching the Stranger Things finale.

[00:18:11] SPEAKER_??: All right.

[00:18:12] Zoe Licata: We don't really do a lot for New Year's typically because celebrating New Year's in Boston is terrible. At least like out in the city. It doesn't really make a lot of sense. Every place charges like a $50, $60 cover charge to go into the same bar you could have gotten into for free the week before and you get like a glass of champagne. So now we'll be inside and watching the final, final episode of Stranger Things. And then the next day, New Year's Day itself, we'll be going to the theaters to watch it on the big screen. So hopefully it's not terrible because we're dedicated to watching it twice now. But we shall see. This is a lot of Stranger Things for you. Yeah, this is Lawrence Driven. He is very, very dedicated to this show. Lawrence is very dedicated to the many things in his life. To his passions. Yeah. Yeah. What will you be doing for New Year's?

[00:19:06] Jessica Infante: Well, we are staying here at my mom's because last year on New Year's Eve, we were back home in Salem and, you know, Cora was in bed and my husband went to put on a movie and then he fell asleep. He picked the movie and then he fell asleep. And then I was alone watching a movie. featuring Saoirse Ronan, I forget what it was called, but she is a mother during the Blitzkrieg of London during World War II and gets separated from her child. So I just spent the night like in distress and by myself. And I probably could have turned it off, but I wasn't really sure what to do. So this year I was like, dude, we're not doing that again. So we're staying here. And my mom has an early dinner reservation, so I think that means that Ryan and I have a built-in babysitter. And I think we might walk down the road to the bar. Love it. Right? Just the two of us? I don't know. One of the bars we're farther down the road, not walking distance, has open bar starting at 9 p.m. for 50 bucks. He was like, we're doing that. And I was like, I don't know that we need that. And I also don't want to get stuck there without a ride home. So ask me again next week and we'll see what happens because chances are also pretty good that we just stay home. Unsure.

[00:20:11] Zoe Licata: We do have New Year's Day off. So you could, you could get a little lit.

[00:20:16] Jessica Infante: I could get a little lit, but then there's also a little person. who likes to wake up at, you know, between six and seven. So we'll see. Before we get to this interview with Jason, another under-tabbing out for you. This week, you noticed that the Pop-Tarts Bowl had Pop-Tarts craft beer pairings. And I don't know that I want to know where you are on the idea of Pop-Tart and craft beer pairings, cause that's just like on its face ridiculous. But like, where are you on the Pop-Tart Bowl in general? I did not watch. Was there a ritualistic sacrifice of a Pop-Tart?

[00:20:53] Zoe Licata: There was. I did not watch it live. I've just kept tabs on it through the internet because it just seems to get more and more ridiculous every year. And if anybody doesn't know what this is, this is a college football game that I think, I want to say this is the third time this has happened, maybe? But yes, it was in Orlando and they have Pop-Tart mascots and this year they made the end zones covered in sprinkles. They had everything covered in sprinkles, honestly. And there is a Pop-Tart that gets sacrificed at the end and goes in the toaster and then the winners get to eat this ginormous Pop-Tart. So yes, it was sacrificed.

[00:21:33] Jessica Infante: Like these CPG brands have gone bonkers on these bowl games the past years. I kind of love it. It's very unhinged.

[00:21:40] Zoe Licata: Yeah, I am buying another round on it, especially this Pop-Tarts Bowl because they really go all out. They're not just slapping their name on it. They are finding every possible way they can incorporate Pop-Tarts branding into everything they do there. And it is quite fun. One of the best things I saw was one of the bands, the trombone folks had a Pop-Tart sleeve over their trombone slide. That's amazing. Yeah, it was amazing. It was so good. It's just fun. Yeah, it's a great time.

[00:22:11] Jessica Infante: I wasn't allowed to have frosted Pop-Tarts when I was little. My mom bought the plain ones.

[00:22:15] Zoe Licata: We had like the store brand, like just plain with strawberry inside or whatever.

[00:22:20] Jessica Infante: I love like, I don't know what else you would call it, but like a craft Pop-Tart, like when a bakery makes their own Pop-Tart. So good.

[00:22:28] Zoe Licata: I can tell you my first Pop-Tart experience because it was that memorable because we did not have Pop-Tarts. And going to my friend Kelly Sweeney's house and she had the, I want to say it was like cookies or cream or something, but it was a chocolate Pop-Tart. And I can tell you like the smell of it in the toaster oven. It was like a beautiful, amazing experience. And I don't think I really liked it. But the ritual of taking out the Pop-Tarts out of that silver package and toasting them was a beautiful, beautiful memory that I will never forget.

[00:23:01] Jessica Infante: Amazing. Wow.

[00:23:04] Zoe Licata: So more Pop-Tart bowls, please.

[00:23:05] Jessica Infante: More Pop-Tart bowls. And like the Duke's Mayo Bowl.

[00:23:08] Zoe Licata: Don't care for that. There's only so much you can do with mayo references.

[00:23:13] Jessica Infante: Oh, and they're trying. Yeah. Wow. I think it's been a lovely year here on the Brewbound Podcast. Thank you for being part of it. And by that, by you, I mean you, Zoe. Thank you for being part of this.

[00:23:25] Zoe Licata: Thank you. Thank you for doing this with me. Thank you to Justin for doing most of this year with us. He'll be back. Don't worry. He's not gone forever. And yeah, thank you to everybody who listens to the podcast. We talk about all the time that we kind of forget that folks actually listen because we're just kind of talking to each other. So we appreciate that we do have those listeners and you guys make this happen. And thank you to Joe and our amazing BevNET colleagues who also make us sound great. We are just talking to each other, but you guys hear maybe 80% of that because we kind of go on tangent sometimes. And Joe makes sure to cut out anything that you don't necessarily need.

[00:24:05] Jessica Infante: Joe does always make us sound good. So biggest thank you of all to Joe.

[00:24:10] Zoe Licata: Biggest thank you.

[00:24:11] Jessica Infante: And with that, thank you for listening and for being with us all year. Let's get to this featured interview with Jason McConnell.

[00:24:23] Brewing Company: This is Justin Kendall with Brewbound and I'm at the California Craft Brewers Association Summit in Irvine. And my next guest is Jason McConnell, the new owner. Can you say new owner still when you're like six to seven months in? I feel pretty shiny still. So yes, I'm still new. So you jumped in, you bought a brewery, you're six, seven months in. How's it going?

[00:24:45] California Craft: It's great. I feel like it's basically taken six months just to kind of get a feeling for what's going on all over the place. It's just, it's a large operation. I think the part I really like about it the most is just the physical presence of the place. I had a large vineyard and winery before and I just, I like having space and that property's gorgeous. There's just so much going on there. And in the beginning, I was like, oh my gosh, Frisbee golf and goats. And now I'm like, I love the Frisbee golf and goats. So it's actually, it's really grown on me and it's cool. I live out there, I've got a trailer in one of the old stable buildings where they used to have the Clydesdales. And as much as I say it's a trailer, it's a nice airstream and it's a cool little setup, but no, it's beautiful.

[00:25:24] Brewing Company: It's what, 30 acres?

[00:25:26] California Craft: Yep, right around 30 acres. It's right on the main corner going into Anderson Valley. And I'm actually just putting in a secondary road off of Highway 128, which the guys are actually readjusting fences today. And we're going to kind of get that road finished up hopefully next week. So there's access from both Highway 253 and 128.

[00:25:44] Brewing Company: So what do you think that's going to do for the business is having that extra entry point?

[00:25:48] California Craft: Well, what's interesting is being that I do spend a lot of time up in Anderson Valley, we've got great restaurants and we've got the cool hotel up there, Boonville Hotel and Offspring. And every time I'm at the restaurants, it's interesting, the tourists that are coming through, they're more from the Bay Area, take Highway 128, and they don't really know that the brewery's there. And it's funny, even though it's right there, they don't know it. So I sort of feel like having an access point off of 128 is gonna kind of make it more visible for them. Really 253 is more like a working corridor that just connects over to Ukiah. So it's not quite as touristy.

[00:26:20] Brewing Company: So yeah. What is traffic like right now for you? Because you are kind of out there. So, you know, how's it going as far as getting some of those tourists in there? How's it getting some of those locals in there? How's it going?

[00:26:32] California Craft: So this will be my first winter there, and I've told that it really drops off, which is fine. You know, we'll see what we can do to kind of promote things through the winter. We're working on some different things for that. But there's a lot of traffic through there. Like, I remember when I was first, I used to do a lot of music events and stuff at the winery, and I kind of missed that. And I was told, well, you know, they do music events at the brewery. I was like, I mean, who the heck comes over here, right? And literally Friday night, you can have hundreds of people there. And a lot of them are the locals. And so being that there's not a lot to do in Anderson Valley, it's a great spot. So the community really supports it. And so we try to definitely help the community too. It's surprising the traffic that can actually go through there.

[00:27:17] Brewing Company: Yeah. In your early days of owning the brewery, how have you sort of reached out to the community and tried to sort of bring them in and, you know, build that sort of connection with them?

[00:27:28] California Craft: Well, immediately when I took over, one of the big events was the beer fest that they've been doing. This will be the 28th year of the beer fest. And so I had basically one month to kind of put that together and figure it out. And like it's a fundraiser. The entire community joins in on that. And so, I mean, there's probably two dozen nonprofits that are part of that. And so that's really, we help the community through that. And then we've done a lot of different barbecues and events where, you know, like the senior center, different groups will come in so they can kind of benefit from the events as well. And it's, it's, it's a very small town. Like there's all the local people are there all the time. So it's, it's kind of cool in that regard.

[00:28:05] Brewing Company: So when you're thinking about your focus with the brewery, what is that right now? Is it on sort of being a community space and a venue? Or how do you view that sort of going forward?

[00:28:17] California Craft: I'm definitely putting energy into the property itself. I feel like right now with the market being down, I want to focus on kind of more of the brick and mortar and turn it into a bit of a destination brewery. I know a lot of the winemakers in the valley and a lot of people, and I think it's, I mean, it's a gorgeous property. And if we can kind of build that out, So it's more of an event center for everybody. I know that we can draw people over from Ukiah. They already come over and just kind of get more people up from the Bay Area. So really just focusing on building that out while the market's kind of softer. And then we'll keep focusing on kind of keeping the brand out there as well. One of the things that really does set us apart is the beer fest blows my mind. It's like a beer camp. Everyone comes out there. Everyone's got their pods and groups. And there's hundreds of people. It's so cool. And there's a marching band. The fricking tappers go around at midnight. it's just the coolest like thing and so we want to keep it going and then meanwhile you got frisbee golf you got goats you've got I mean a frisbee golf blows my mind there's like it's so interesting it's like this might not be the right thing to say but say if you go outside at midnight to take a leak And, you know, this is what you do if you're in nature. That's right. And you'll hear something behind you, like, is it a bobcat? Is it a feral pig? Oh, no, it's frisbee golfers. And sometimes they'll come out and play night golf out there, and they've got glow-in-the-dark frisbees. And it's just, yeah, so it's a bit of a different world, but I love it. It's really grown on me.

[00:29:42] Brewing Company: Are they drinking your beer while they're doing it?

[00:29:44] California Craft: I don't think the guys at like midnight, actually, they're not just guys. I know most of them, they're local folks. I don't think they're really drinking at that time. Most of them work in hospitality, need to be up early. So yeah.

[00:29:53] Brewing Company: As far as products go, where's your focus? You know, where do you see the opportunities in your portfolio right now?

[00:30:00] California Craft: I mean, we've obviously got like a great core set of beer, you know, got the Boots, kind of the flagship. It's been around forever. And then, you know, we've got definitely a great Pilsner and everything else. We're playing with some new products as well. We're just over in Rue Asia and we've kind of been focusing a bit on some Koji style lagers or sake style lagers and playing with some kind of sake variants. So we're doing those things. It's just interesting to kind of see, you know, and actually everyone we've talked to is quite interested in it. We're sort of doing a big release of that come February. and we've got Beer Fest this year, May 2nd, and we're gonna kind of go with a Japanese theme for that, like Drunken Master, like Godzilla versus Barkley, and Barkley's of course our beer mascot. So I don't know, I mean, beer world is a lot more laid back and a lot more fun to promote than wine world. It's different and it's awesome, so I really do enjoy it.

[00:30:55] Brewing Company: Are you diving sort of head in to sake? Do you see that as being sort of like a core offering for you going forward?

[00:31:02] California Craft: In the future, yeah, definitely. Sake is a lot more complex than people realize. And as much as it's partially the same equipment, there's also a lot of new equipment to it. So I was just in Bangkok with one of our brewers, Dave, and then also Fal Allen, who is back helping with promotional stuff and new product design and things like that. So there was this variant called Sato, S-A-T-O, that we tried over there, they tried. So we're going to give that a try. It's made with essentially sticky rice, and so the guys back there are kind of figuring out a plan for that. So hopefully in a few weeks we can kind of do a demo batch. Who knows? Got to play with new stuff as well.

[00:31:39] Brewing Company: You've been in the wine industry, you're still in the wine industry, right?

[00:31:42] California Craft: From the drinking standpoint, yeah. But I don't own anything anymore, which probably is a good time not to own a winery, really.

[00:31:49] Brewing Company: Yeah, from the data that we saw today, I think that it's... you're in a good space, comparatively.

[00:31:55] California Craft: Yeah, it's sad. The winery or the vineyard next to the brewery, they tore all the vines out. It's like, it's like the worst thing to watch. But yeah, but that is the state of affairs. I mean, yeah, the beer industry is down. I don't think it's hurting nearly as bad as the wine industry. It feels like it's a little bit better. So yeah.

[00:32:12] Brewing Company: Do you see parallels between the two industries having, you know, been in that business and this one or are they completely separate?

[00:32:20] California Craft: No, there's definitely parallels. I mean, it really comes down to branding and marketing. And I mean, what stands out? Are you going to be the same as everyone else? You can try to be different. If you're going to be the same as everyone else, expect, you know. kind of be the average like everyone else but I find it's kind of a bit more creative people are more laid back in the beer industry but you know I mean you still have a workforce you've still got insurance you've still got bills to pay less seasonal that's probably the biggest difference I would love to get hops back in on the property so we can have some seasonality to it but otherwise yeah it's really It still feels weird, like I'll still wake up around harvest time going, oh my God, you know, have I got to get doing something? And you're like, oh no, no, I don't need to worry about that now. It's other people's problems. But yeah, so that's the biggest difference is it's just kind of a more mechanical process versus, you know, seasonal.

[00:33:11] Brewing Company: So one of the things that I think Kevin did while he was there was he installed a bunch of, is it fairy doors?

[00:33:17] California Craft: Fairy doors. There were like secret fairy doors on the property. Fairy door. I think that's what it was, right? Yeah, so every once in a while, I'll still find some. I don't know how many are missing or how many were originally there. But yeah, in some of the stumps or up in the trees, you'll find the little fairy doors around. And I think the other place I've seen that, he lived down in Hillsborough, but I think you'll see them sometimes down there too. So it's kind of a neat little idea. Yeah, that's pretty cool. Yeah, so no, there's all kinds of like hidden little things on the property, which is kind of cool.

[00:33:50] Brewing Company: When you've got that many acres, you're going to find some things.

[00:33:53] California Craft: Oh yeah, you find things. A lot of rogue frisbees. They're just everywhere. It's kind of funny. You might need a pro shop on the campus. Well, we do sell frisbees and rent them out. I can't believe I actually own a frisbee golf course. We actually just had the Frisbee golf, it's called Bootfling back in, was it August? And yeah, like there's two, 300 people camping on site. Like it's, there's at midnight again, they do night golf from about 10 till five in the morning. And a lot of people from Burning Man come out to it and set up. And so there'll be waffles at two in the morning and it's all lit up and there's music going.

[00:34:30] Brewing Company: It's just, yeah, so it's really pretty cool. You got to lean into the occasions that you can own and I think you've found it.

[00:34:36] California Craft: Yeah, if you want to be different, that's a great spot for it. So yeah, yeah.

[00:34:40] Brewing Company: Well, thanks for doing this, Jason. It's great to meet you.

[00:34:42] California Craft: Right on, you too. And hopefully we'll get to do this again in the future. Cheers. All right. Cheers.

[00:34:48] Jessica Infante: And that's our show for this week. Thank you for listening. The Brewbound Podcast is a production of BevNET CPG. Our audio engineer for the Brewbound Podcast is Joe Cracci. Our technical director is Joshua Pratt and our video editor is Ryan Galang. Our social marketing manager is Amanda Smerlinski. Our designer is Amanda Huang. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with your colleagues and friends and review us on your listening platform of choice. You can find our work at Brewbound.com. And we also welcome feedback and suggestions at podcast at Brewbound.com. On behalf of the entire Brewbound podcast team, thank you for listening. We'll be back next week.