[00:00:00] Justin Kendall: Heading to CBC? Kick things off the day before at Brewbound's meetup at Love City Brewing in Philly, Sunday, April 19th from 5 to 7 p.m. Connect with beer industry leaders, grab a drink, and catch up with the Brewbound team. It's free to attend and walking distance from the convention center. Head to Brewbound.com slash lovecity.rsvp. And don't forget to catch the Brewbound team at booth 956 during CBC. Next on the Brewbound Podcast, an exit interview with Bells Brewery EVP, Carrie Yunker. Hello and welcome to the Brewbound Podcast. I'm Justin Kendall.
[00:00:49] Zoe Licata: And I'm Zoe Licata.
[00:00:51] Justin Kendall: And we are in Kalamazoo, Michigan for Bells Oberon Day.
[00:00:56] Zoe Licata: I know. How exciting. Very different than our usual podcast setup.
[00:01:00] Justin Kendall: That's right. So Jess is holding down the fort back in Massachusetts for us. And this is the first time I've ever been to Kalamazoo. It's the first time I've ever been to Oberon Day. Same. This is Carrie Yunker's 21st edition of Oberon Day. I think this is like the 33rd Oberon Day. Something like that. Yeah. Yeah. So we have an interview with Carrie Yunker. She's departing the company after nearly 22 years. And stay tuned for that. We're recording this on Monday, March 24th. We've got Brewbound Live coming up December 10th and 11th. Tickets are available now. Speakers come in the next few weeks and months. So look out for those. We're going to be at CBC. We'll be on the trade show floor. You can find us in booth 512.
[00:01:53] Zoe Licata: We are going to be recording podcasts there at CBC too, and we are still filling out our calendar for that. So if you want to talk to us, if you have something interesting to chat about, please reach out to us at news at rebound.com and we'll see if we want to set something up, but we're trying to have lots of conversations there. It's a really fun setup where we can kind of have some quick chats and little podcast things that we don't get to do anywhere else. So definitely reach out or just stop by the booth and say hi. It's pretty conveniently located. We want to see as many people as we can while everyone's kind of hanging out in Indianapolis.
[00:02:27] Justin Kendall: Yeah, we're very excited to be there again on the trade show floor. So looking forward to that. And we're looking forward to Oberon Day. We'll report back next week on our experiences here. And you can catch up on some of that on social media. I think Zoe's doing the live share of the work there.
[00:02:45] Zoe Licata: Yeah, currently we'll be doing a lot of social media live today, which will be too late by the time you listen to this, but we should have some fun reels and things on the Brewbound Instagram. So keep an eye out for that.
[00:02:55] Justin Kendall: Well, with that, let's get to our exit interview with Kerry Yunker. After nearly 22 years with Bell's Brewery, Carrie Yunker's last day with the Michigan Craft Brewery is today, Oberon Day 2025. It's her 21st Oberon Day. Carrie's story is a remarkable one, starting as a part-time receptionist and working her way up the ranks to become Bell's founder, Larry Bell's handpicked successor, and guiding the brewery through milestone moments, including the acquisition by New Belgium's parent company, Lion Little World Beverages. But now Carrie is stepping away from the brewery to chase other passions. And Carrie is here today. Thanks for joining me, Carrie, for this exit interview.
[00:03:39] Carrie Yunker: So happy to be here with some of my favorite folks. Happy to have you in Kalamazoo, Zoe and Justin.
[00:03:47] Justin Kendall: We're stoked to be here. So first, congratulations on a hell of a run here at Bell's.
[00:03:53] Carrie Yunker: Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, it has been certainly the privilege of my life to lead such an amazing, amazing team and brand.
[00:04:01] Justin Kendall: It's Oberon Day. So happy Oberon Day.
[00:04:03] Carrie Yunker: Happy Oberon Day.
[00:04:04] Justin Kendall: And you have brought us some Oberons. Breakfast beers. Breakfast beers.
[00:04:07] Carrie Yunker: Yes.
[00:04:08] Justin Kendall: Because we're recording this at like 9am.
[00:04:10] Carrie Yunker: Correct. Correct. But it's Oberon Day. So we're already probably late by some folks standards today, Justin.
[00:04:17] Justin Kendall: So this is Over on Light. It's 99 calories, citrus wheat beer. So good. And it's fresh out.
[00:04:25] Carrie Yunker: Fresh out, fresh out. Brand new baby launching today. You'll see it across Michigan, Great Lakes State, certainly on tap and at our pub.
[00:04:35] Justin Kendall: Awesome. Well, cheers.
[00:04:36] Carrie Yunker: Cheers.
[00:04:38] Justin Kendall: That's not going to be my last Over on Light today.
[00:04:40] Carrie Yunker: Yeah, it's delicious.
[00:04:42] Justin Kendall: So you picked Oberon Day as your last day at Bells. What does this day mean to you?
[00:04:48] Carrie Yunker: You know, this day is the best of everything. It's the best of Kalamazoo, which is a city that I love so much. It is the best of craft beer, which is if you throw back craft beer to its heyday, it's really about bringing people together and community. And what you will see is The streets of Kalamazoo lined with people wearing teal, wearing orange, drinking Oberon, you know, lighting up not just our account, but accounts all, you know, all over Kalamazoo. And so it is really just this wonderful amalgamation of all the there's music, it's food and fun and family and community. And this day represents that not only just here in Kalamazoo, but you see that spotlighted across the Great Lakes.
[00:05:32] Justin Kendall: That's awesome. And you think about it too, because, I mean, it's a seasonal beer, really. It's a wheat beer, you know? It sure is.
[00:05:40] Carrie Yunker: Nielsen IQ is scratching their head every year, right?
[00:05:43] Justin Kendall: Yeah. A lot of beers end up with fanfare, like Russian Rivers, Pliny the Younger, and those type of beers. But this is something completely different. It's a very accessible beer. It's one that, you know, you'll be able to find in grocery. And yet the people of Kalamazoo rise up for it.
[00:05:59] Carrie Yunker: Yes. And it's not even just the people of Kalamazoo, the whole state of Michigan, really, and our surrounding states that we like, even that one that starts with an O, right? Like all of them show up. And part of it I think really is the seasonality. That is what makes it unique. Us Midwesterners hunker down in the winter and we still have fun in the winter, but we are ready to summer. There is nothing like a Midwest summer on Lake Michigan.
[00:06:24] Justin Kendall: Well, I'm excited to experience it for the first time. And Zoe and I will have to report back next week on our Oberon Day experiences.
[00:06:34] Oberon Day: This episode is brought to you by the Craft Brewers Conference, where big ideas, bold beers, and brutally honest shop talk collide. Join thousands of industry pros leveling up their game. Don't miss it. Register now at craftbrewersconference.com.
[00:06:54] Justin Kendall: I want to get into your decision to step away. How did you know that this was the right time to do it?
[00:07:00] Carrie Yunker: You know, I think as the holidays came this year and I had, you know, spent some time with my family and my daughters are now, we're kind of in, I'm in personally in this place of life where I became an empty nester in the fall. Both of my girls are in school. And so I've just, there's been a little less noise in my life. And so that sort of silence, I think created some space for me to really think about what's next for me, what's next for our family, what are those ambitions that in some ways, I'm so fortunate to lead this brand, but much of the way that I lead is so such a giving of myself, that I had some time for reflection. And I talked to my family about it over the holidays. And then really as the calendar year turned and We started to see some of the first days of new administration and those pieces. And I have lots of dear friends and people that I love who are living in a place where they are fearful. And when I think about what I could do and take sort of my leadership, my business acumen and potentially apply that in a different way. to go do work either in politics or nonprofit to really help make sure that people can live and love the way that they like. That's something that really motivates me.
[00:08:18] Justin Kendall: So a higher calling.
[00:08:19] Carrie Yunker: Higher calling. Yeah, right.
[00:08:21] Justin Kendall: It's been two decades here, though, you know, and those decisions don't come easy. And it's good to have that moment where it's not as noisy and you're able to think and get some clarity. I want to take a step back, because I mentioned at the top you were Larry Bell's hand-picked successor. What was it like being chosen for that role?
[00:08:43] Carrie Yunker: I mean, it was truly an honor, right? He's, he's a legend, like him or love him, right? Like he is a legend and created something incredibly special. And choosing the person on the leadership team, because even if you think about Bell's leadership team at that time, we had John Mallett, we had Matt Moberly, we had, you know, we had some really strong, again, 20 plus year vets like myself. But for him and the board and Laura to, you know, to really go and say, this brand is as much about our people as it is about our beer, you know, so then to sort of look to me to take that and knowing, I think in that moment that there was likely a transition and sort of what his next steps were and that the priority really was how do we care for our people through that, that feels pretty special.
[00:09:31] Justin Kendall: I think that's one of the things that craft brewers have really struggled with is succession planning.
[00:09:36] Carrie Yunker: I agree.
[00:09:37] Justin Kendall: A lot of times there isn't a generational successor. There isn't an obvious choice for who will step up when the founders who have been sort of the face step away and Larry made the choice for you. And with that came a shift in sort of how the brewery is led. It went from a very one person, you know, strong founder to somebody who is very democratic in the way that you approach leadership. What was it like implementing that change?
[00:10:09] Carrie Yunker: You know, when what I'm so grateful for in my time spent under Larry is the tenacity that he helped to build in me. He does not take no for an answer. Right. So there are some of those pieces of his legacy that were really important for me to hold on to. And he is such a strong voice and strong visionary, as many founders are. And I think what I could see as sort of, you know, his kind of longtime lieutenant, if you will, what I could see is looking around me is he paid a lot of attention externally and I paid a lot of attention internally. And what I saw internally in those moments was we had so many capable people who were just on the cusp of greatness. And so like, how do we lean into that? How do we be brave? Because people are going to make mistakes too, myself included, right? As I took over, as I, you know, tried to, to your point, sort of change some of the ways that we made decisions, that we decided about brands, that we decided about business plans, right? It wasn't a singular voice. It was, you know, I want to hear all of this and then let's debate the points and let's agree on what the right step forward is. And it took some time because we were all very used to getting our marching orders and going to execute at the highest level. And so it took some time to really dial that back and say, no, what's your idea, right? I tried so hard to not be the first person to speak in a room. That was like really intentional around the way that I started meetings, the way that we sort of made decisions was I spoke last and not first.
[00:11:41] Justin Kendall: That's one of the things that really stuck out to me about your speech at Brewbound Live a few years back was asking the question, what do you think? And how that one thing can sort of change an organization. And it's something that I've tried to take to heart in that talk that's just stuck with me since then.
[00:12:02] Carrie Yunker: Yeah, we have so much to learn. Like as leaders, we should be in this place of being sponges and always learning. And I've always really felt like my job is to, you know, clear the path for greatness. Not my greatness, but really the honor that I had of hiring hundreds of people in my life through Bells. And some of them are there and some of them are out in the world doing amazing things at other breweries or in other parts of businesses. And like, that's the legacy that I'm most excited about, truly, and even part of the decision to step away is I'm seeing, you know, four or five years later, I'm seeing so many great people who are ready for that next thing. And I'm now the thing in the way of that.
[00:12:47] Justin Kendall: Have you talked to Larry?
[00:12:48] Carrie Yunker: Yes, of course. He and I stay in regular contact, had coffee on St. Patrick's Day together. So yes, of course.
[00:12:55] Justin Kendall: What did he say when you said that you were going to make this move?
[00:12:58] Carrie Yunker: You know, he, I don't want to speak too much for him, but what I'll say is he think he's a mixture of sad, you know, because he, I'm someone he knows and trusts and he knows what to expect from me and how, how I'll care for people. And he's excited for my next step and continuing to support me in what's next for me.
[00:13:17] Justin Kendall: So you've guided this brand through many milestones. When you look back, what stands out to you?
[00:13:24] Carrie Yunker: Well, when I look back, I think, you know, coloring into the map of our national distribution was a thing that we were sort of holding. It was like, you know, holding back racehorses for a while. That's what it felt like at the brewery when we kept saying no to the people in the Pac Northwest who really love their craft beer, right? And like, we're just clamoring for a two-hearted. And we're telling these folks like, no, we're not ready. No, we're not ready. Because we're really trying to make sure that we followed, you know, in some ways, a much different model than what you saw from most breweries at the time, which was we're going to go deep and not wide. We didn't necessarily focus on chains when we started. We didn't focus on price. It has always been about the beer and the people who want to drink the beer. So I think that that's a big milestone. And then really the transition into the New Belgium, you know, Lyon-Kieran family. I'm really proud of that work. I'm proud of the way that we approached that work. I'm proud that there are Bell's fingerprints and pieces of, whether it's the benefits package or some of our practices and policies that exist throughout, you know, an organization now that we were able to sort of influence and bring that to, frankly, a multinational organization.
[00:14:40] Justin Kendall: I think I know what you're going to say here, but when you reflect back on your time at Bells, what do you believe has been your biggest impact?
[00:14:48] Carrie Yunker: I think you know that I'm going to say the people, but it isn't just, it's even the people who, and I think this is maybe the surprising part, right? Like it's definitely the people that I've had the opportunity to hire or mentor or directly lead, but it's also the people that we had to part ways from because they weren't living up to what those Bell's expectations were, our core values. And that part's the hard part. But I look back on that with such pride that we knew who we are. We had a clear definition of what that was, and we knew that it was something really special to be there and everyone needed to be rolling in the same direction. And so it's all the aspects of people, the good parts, right? And the parts where it's hard.
[00:15:32] Justin Kendall: What was the most challenging part of this role?
[00:15:35] Carrie Yunker: I think the most challenging part was... trying to make sure that everyone is okay with the amount of change. And I don't just mean through acquisition. I mean the industry as we look at it right now and every report we read and how scary that feels. And for our folks, it's really around like how do I instill in them the sense of sort of curiosity to say like in these moments where it's hard and we know it's going to be hard, How are we leaning in? How are we finding ways to be more productive? How are we finding ways to lean on each other when that happens? But change is constant, and trying to set the expectation that it is going to be constant, and you need people to be comfortable with that.
[00:16:25] Justin Kendall: New Belgium isn't going to backfill this role immediately.
[00:16:28] Carrie Yunker: They're not.
[00:16:29] Justin Kendall: They're going to spread out the duties across several folks. What's your advice been to those folks?
[00:16:36] Carrie Yunker: I've encouraged all of them to be great listeners. I have encouraged them to use their voice and speak up. You know, that's, I think, part of what has gotten me to here is like, I'm not afraid to speak up. And if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. And truly, as I see particularly women in leadership, I think that that space of still making sure your voice is at the table and your voice is at the table in a way that you can be wrong and all the rest of the men in the room can be wrong too. And you don't feel worse about it or you don't, you know, that doesn't make you make yourself smaller.
[00:17:09] Justin Kendall: When you look back on your leadership style, how has it evolved?
[00:17:14] Carrie Yunker: Coming from HR, right, which really, in most organizations, has this rap of, you know, the rules and protecting the company. That's how I started, right? That was the job. That was the job description. But I've never been much of a rule follower, Justin, honestly. It's really not my forte. I love the gray. You know, there are a lot of people who like black and white. My lovely accountant friends and CFO friends, they dig it, right? Not me. I love the gray. I love the squishy middle where you're really trying to figure it out. And I started to lean into, we called it the Bell's Way, right? And that Bell's Way really meant like doing the right thing, even if it was the hard thing. Even if it took longer, even if we spent more, it was like, what's the way that we can have the highest quality experience or beer? And when you kept that in mind and led through that way, I think that really, the integrity that really myself and the leadership team do that with, that's really unique.
[00:18:14] Justin Kendall: What are some of those moments that really stand out like the Bell's way of doing things where it might have been harder?
[00:18:20] Carrie Yunker: Sure. You know, we built a baby brewery in the UP and not a giant production facility that would help save on our logistics costs. Right. So we doubled down in the state of Michigan at the time when you saw What may have made more sense in that moment, and you have seen, you know, including our sister brewery, you know, New Belgium, you know, saw them really lean into the production side of things. We leaned into Michigan, into our home state, into the market that was most comfortable for us. I think about even just like the way that we grew the brand and expanded the brand. There are a lot of breweries, even some here in Michigan, who took a sort of, you know, spray and play approach. And that's what worked for them. That was their strategy. And we, we held tight because we did the exhaustive distributor interview process. We walked every warehouse and you didn't have to pay for the brand, the rights to the brand. Like, so there were some things in the moment because we wanted the right partner. And we wanted to make sure they would care as much about the beer as we did. So those, I think, are some of those moments where we truly gave up dollars to prioritize the quality of the beer and the experience that our consumers would have on the back end.
[00:19:30] Justin Kendall: When you look back, and I'm sure there are several favorite memories, is there anything that really stands out that you want to share?
[00:19:36] Carrie Yunker: Yeah. It's been three years ago now. When Oberon Day became a state holiday, that felt like really like we had done something so special. We knew how special it was, but for our governor to recognize it as an unofficial state holiday, that felt really special. And we were surrounded by, it was a warm, sunny Oberon Day, so not the one we'll get today. But it was like a beautiful, warm day. So just the experience of that day was really great. One of the other moments is probably seven or eight years ago, I had this crazy idea. I told my HR team, we were desperate for people. We were trying to grow second and third shift, off shifts in every department, because we had started our sort of March West, and we just couldn't keep up. So I was like, well, we should just have a job fair. Let's just have a job fair." So I went on our local news in the morning, decided, and I said on the news, did not tell my team this, just came to me in the moment. So this is a little another fun fact about working for me, right, is I said, if you show up to the brewery today, you will get an interview. If you show up, you will meet with someone from Bells and you will get an interview and you will get time and you can tour the brewery and see what it's like to really be there. We had almost 300 people show up. We worked 14 hours that day. I said, I'm sorry, I cannot tell you how many times. But like you just saw the community show up. We made a promise, we delivered on that promise. I had all the people I needed after hour two, right? Truly from a candidate, but that isn't what I said. So we stayed and we did a job fair at the new brewery in Comstock and we filled the positions and we had pipeline for months after that because we had done that. And it was, that was really an amazing day.
[00:21:26] Justin Kendall: Sounds like a wild day.
[00:21:28] Carrie Yunker: It was crazy. I was pulling in packaging managers and my seller, like my lead seller staff. I was like, I need you to stop what you're doing and come interview people. Like I was shutting down production essentially to help make sure that we could interview folks that day.
[00:21:43] Larry Bell: I can only imagine what folks at the brewery were thinking when they were watching that interview and they heard that.
[00:21:49] Carrie Yunker: I was definitely withdrawing from any deposits I had made prior.
[00:21:57] Justin Kendall: So I think I know the answer to this one too, but you know, what are you going to miss most about being here at Bells?
[00:22:02] Carrie Yunker: You know, I'm not going to have to miss the people that I love and care about because they will still be in my life. I'm not leaving Kalamazoo. You know, likely my next step is here in Michigan. I love Michigan and I love specifically Southwest Michigan. I can get to Chicago, I can get to Detroit, I can get to the lake. I can go hiking in the UP in five hours. So I love this part of Michigan specifically. But what I will miss is being a part of the magic of Vels. So that's, you know, walking through the airport and if I'm logoed up, somebody will stop me and they will give me their experience with the first time they drank a two hearted or you know, how they had Oberon Day their wedding. And I just, you know, that is a unique and special thing that not everyone gets to experience is leading or working for a brand that people really love so much and is a part of their life.
[00:22:54] Justin Kendall: It's incredible when you see those moments or you hear about them. It's so much bigger than just a beer.
[00:23:01] Carrie Yunker: It is so much bigger than beer.
[00:23:03] Justin Kendall: So this industry, it's been in highs and lows. We're at a lower point at this moment. When you look at the struggles that you're seeing right now, how do you envision the path forward for Kraft?
[00:23:16] Carrie Yunker: I think that the part of this path forward for craft has to be that we have to get out of our own way. We can be a bit pretentious, right? We all think we make the best beer and many people make fantastic beer. But I wonder if we go back to thinking about what we were all trying to do 20 years ago which is offer something different to the consumer. And we applied that mindset to whether it's beer, beverage, RTD, you know, like really anything. And we leaned into that with the spirit that many of these breweries were founded on, what would be possible then? If we weren't sort of fighting against ourselves or looking, you know, next door as your craft brewery or your local craft brewery as your enemy, right? Then the person you're fighting for shelf space for, but instead really become consumer focused and think more about what are they looking for, right? So how am I not pushing out my neighbor, but how am I making space and delivering on what the consumer is looking for? It's gonna get ugly.
[00:24:17] Justin Kendall: Yeah, I think that that is pretty much the key to it is unlocking that consumer and figuring out like what they actually want and giving it to them. And like you said, being a little less pretentious about it.
[00:24:31] Carrie Yunker: I mean, we're drinking an Oberon Light. We're having our breakfast beer and our breakfast beer is an Oberon Light. And it's in a slim can and it's 99 calories. That's on the label. And 10 years ago, there is zero chance, zero chance. And yet this is me, myself and the team are incredibly proud of this. We talked a little bit off air, right? Like how, in some ways, how fussy we were about making sure that when you tasted an Oberon light, it was a flavorful light beer experience. We were, you know, really. Lots of back and forth to make sure that that was the experience that you had. And not to say that everybody needs to follow that playbook, but you know, again, that's the evolution of what a brand can be and what a brewery can be when you are really looking for what consumers want.
[00:25:21] Justin Kendall: Well, it certainly delivered on the promise of flavor. I can attest to that. When you announced your exit, I want to get a little bit deeper there. You mentioned turning your attention to causes and community foundations that are close to your heart. What can you share about what's next? Because one thing you didn't mention in that announcement was politics. And I have a feeling that there might be a slight lean there.
[00:25:45] Carrie Yunker: So there is a slight lean. And I think that has been a space that I've been really active in as the leader of the brewery and, you know, and frankly, a significant brand in Michigan. That's a space that I've been active in. That is something I took directly from Larry and the way that he sort of shows up. He was in Lansing. He was testifying. He had great relationships, you know, or not so great, depending on how, you know. They were on the same side or not. But what I have seen in my time and space there, both through my Southwest Michigan First, which is a board that I serve on, but also Michigan Brewers Guild, is that there's a real need for are politicians on all sides to show up with curiosity, a positive attitude, and some business acumen. And those are things that I possess and that I have worked on and skills that I have, you know, leaned into. And the other piece about, you know, making an announcement when you've been somewhere for 21 years is I don't know that people thought that, you know, it was possible for me to leave, right? Like there's a little bit of like, you know, my name and Bell's have been synonymous for a lot of years. So you get phone calls that you wouldn't have gotten two weeks prior, you know, to announcing that. And so I'm certainly exploring opportunities to take the skill sets that I've honed and the relationships that I've built. And yeah, maybe you'll get to, or at least maybe Southwest Michigan will get to fill a bubble in next to my name.
[00:27:13] Justin Kendall: So I'm guessing your phone has rung.
[00:27:15] Carrie Yunker: My phone has rung, for sure.
[00:27:18] Justin Kendall: Well, final, final for you, and I'll just throw it out there on Oberon Day. What is your favorite Bell's beer?
[00:27:25] Carrie Yunker: Okay. All right. Now, because it's my last day, I will not answer this question in the way that I have for a long time, which is not an untrue answer. I'm a seasonal beer drinker, right? So I like to drink through our portfolio, seasonally appropriate. My favorite Bell's beer is Oktoberfest. Okay. It's Bell's Oktoberfest. That's the one.
[00:27:46] Justin Kendall: That's the one. Yep. What is it about Oktoberfest?
[00:27:50] Carrie Yunker: It is truly just the most epic example of a Marzen. The little bit, you know, like it has just the right amount of hops. It's a masterpiece and it tastes so good every time. And that's also my favorite season. So that is part of it, right? I love sort of the end of summer, beginning of fall in Michigan is truly my favorite time of year. And that's when that beer tastes the best. It tastes good on a boat. It tastes good around a campfire. So that's my favorite Bell's beer, Bell's Oktoberfest.
[00:28:23] Justin Kendall: That's awesome. Well, thank you for doing this, Carrie. Really appreciate it. And very excited and very happy for you.
[00:28:29] Carrie Yunker: Thank you. Thank you. So good to have both of you. Can't wait to go celebrate.
[00:28:32] Justin Kendall: Can't wait either. And that's our show for this week. Thanks to Zoe for running the audio board for me here in Kalamazoo. Thanks to Kerry Yunker for taking the time to do this interview. Thanks to the Bells team for arranging our travel and helping us get here. And thanks to our audio team, Joe, for doing everything he does behind the scenes. And thanks to all of you for listening. We'll be back next week.
