Brewbound Podcast: Allagash Tests the Hop Waters, Some Cannabis Users Say They’re Drinking Less & Hard Kombucha’s Comeback

[00:00:00] Justin Kendall: Next on The Brewbound podcast, lots of talk on non-alcs, cannabis, and hard kombucha. Welcome to The Brewbound podcast. I'm Justin Kendall.

[00:00:20] Jessen Fante: I'm Jessen Fante. And I'm Zoe Licata.

[00:00:24] Justin Kendall: And this week we have a lot of Beyond Beer talk, but we'll talk a little bit about beer too. But first, Zoe, I gotta know, how was the parade?

[00:00:36] Zoe Licata: The parade was wonderful. Had a great time. Luckily, basketball parades are relatively short, so it wasn't too crazy.

[00:00:44] Justin Kendall: So we're talking about the Celtics parade, the Celtics banner 18 parade. I know this affected both of your lives. So I would like to- Different ways. Yes. So let's get into it though. Did you see Derrick White and his duck boat?

[00:01:02] Zoe Licata: I saw Derrick White on a duck boat. I don't know if it's his property on like what St. Adam's says, but he was there. He was very present. We were on the earlier part of the route, so I don't think any of the players were too crazy yet, but I saw some videos later into the parade route where some folks were standing on top of the duck boats. Jason Tatum did spray us with some champagne, which was very fun and exciting. Do you know what brand?

[00:01:32] Justin Kendall: No. Not just by taste, you couldn't tell?

[00:01:34] Zoe Licata: No, no, could not tell. Not consuming a lot of champagne. I think it also had like, NBA finals branding on it. Oh, fancy.

[00:01:45] Jessen Fante: Yeah. And for people who might not know what a duck boat is, because this is like a hyper specific thing. They are these amphibious vehicles that can go on roads can go in water, like ducks. And in Boston, they are, they're like tourists. things that you can, you know, take tours of the city on pretty much almost all year long. But when our professional sports teams win championships, as they do quite frequently, the players are feted with a parade of these deck boats. And I feel like every year, every time this happens, there's always like some player who's like, I'm buying one. And I like, I feel like Gronk was one of them. Who knows if that ever really happens.

[00:02:33] Justin Kendall: So this was the premise of a Boston Beer Samuel Adams digital short that featured Derrick White, who has become a prolific spokesperson for Boston-area brands, and he has done at least two of the your cousin from Boston ads. And this was another one. It didn't feature the cousin. It featured Derrick White buying a duck boat supposedly and driving it around Boston and lots of references. And this is something that when I'm explaining it, I'm like, You would probably think that this is just very, very lame, but I thought it was incredible. I, you know, like there's cynical side in me and then there's the side of me that, you know, this was undeniable in my enjoyment of it.

[00:03:23] Zoe Licata: Yeah, it wasn't so cheesy that it was cringy. It was actually pretty funny. And it came out within, what, I don't know, 24, 48 hours from the win. And Derrick White, like, chipped a tooth during the final game. And so he was like this hero moment for him. So he was already like this golden child in that moment. So I think it all just came together to be very well perceived.

[00:03:50] Jessen Fante: Because with the win was a Monday and the parade was a Friday. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:03:55] Justin Kendall: And he named dropped all the right things, you know, Storodrive and whatever it is, whatever else, you know, but it was very effective.

[00:04:04] Jessen Fante: I will say it was very Boston.

[00:04:06] Justin Kendall: Yeah.

[00:04:07] Jessen Fante: Yeah.

[00:04:08] Justin Kendall: So what won't be very Boston-y will The Brewbound Live in December, December 11th and 12th in Marina Del Rey, California. We may have some folks from Boston there, especially you two, but we're going to have some other folks there too. Just announced Rebecca Mizell from Gulf Distributing in Alabama and the incoming chair of the National Beer Wholesalers Association. She'll be on our wholesaler panel. We've also got Mary Mills from Three Tier Beverages. She's going to be there with Kaylee Thoreau from NIQ doing the data presentation or one of our data presentations this year. And we also have new this year, Retailer 1 to 1s, which you'll be able to sign up for, and it'll be at the buyer's discretion who they meet with. But you got a shot at meeting with Whole Foods and now Convenience Chain BP.

[00:05:05] Jessen Fante: Nice. I'm like, I'm really excited about these one-to-ones. I think this is like such a huge value add to the event. And I think if you're on the fence about attending, I think these meetings can be huge, potentially. You know, like how many times do we do a story about, you know, a brand? I don't want to say, hey, if you come The Brewbound Live, these things will happen for you. But We hear frequently about leaders from the brands that The Brewbound Live during the conference, mix and mingle with retailers, and we end up seeing really cool stuff that comes out of it. This is your chance.

[00:05:39] Justin Kendall: We're just kind of normalizing it and making it a little easier for you. And I'm sure we'll still have some other retailers there who you can mix and mingle with, which is the plan. Tickets available now. You can get them, get them while, while you can. We're stoked to do it, but let's get into the news of the week and we can start with Allagash and their launch of a non-alcoholic Hop Water. It's a very citrusy one, so it's an homage, I would say, to Allagash White in a way. So that's going to be a Taproom exclusive, so you're going to have to go to Portland, Maine to get it, but available in six-pack cans. And this is Allagash's first foray into non-alcoholic beverages.

[00:06:27] Jessen Fante: I think this is really smart for them. It makes a lot of sense. You know, I think they're doing it a little bit different in that it's more akin to white than an IPA, which is usually the flavor profile you're getting from Hop Water. So this is cool. Like I wish it would, were slightly easier for me to get my hands on some, cause I'd love to try it. But I mean, hey, I'll go to Portland. Don't have to twist my arm about that.

[00:06:54] Justin Kendall: You're closer to Portland than me. Maybe this year for my birthday, you can send me some Hop Water.

[00:06:58] Jessen Fante: Oh, maybe I will do that. Cause that would be legal. Great. Yeah, I think this makes sense. It's not the first time that Allagash has dabbled in adjacent to but kind of beyond beer. What I was thinking of when we were talking about this this week when we were getting ready for coverage was Little Grove. Remember those beer adjacent sparkler refreshers that they had? God, I want to say they came out in 2020. that were really good, very fruit forward, light, refreshing, but I think, I don't think they're still in circulation, but.

[00:07:38] Justin Kendall: No, I don't think they are either. But it was one of their like, all right, the pandemic, let's turn everything upside down and launch a whole bunch of innovation all at once. And I think that they even said it was like, at the time, it was like six months of innovation or three years of innovation in six months. Something like that.

[00:07:58] Jessen Fante: Yeah, it just, you know, like I feel like that that time specifically in 2020 was when we kind of saw everybody doing whatever they could do to get a piece of the hard seltzer action. And I remember thinking like, this product is very smart for Allagash because it feels true to their brand. And it does kind of play into this consumer need for something that's a little bit lighter than craft beer tends to be, but it was not, you know, a hard seltzer. So I think, I feel the exact same way about this, this Hop Water that they're making. I think it's very true to who they are and what they do. And guys, if you were listening, I personally would love a non-alk allagash white option, but you know, don't have to listen to me.

[00:08:42] Justin Kendall: So I think that that's the thing. I talked to sales director Josh Ruckman about this, and he said that they were thinking about how they could approach non-alcoholic, and this was, I won't say an easier route, but it was a more palatable route than doing a non-alcoholic beer. And I think that when we hear folks from market research firms like Sercana say there's an opportunity in non-alcoholic, I don't think that they're necessarily talking about non-alcoholic beer, or if they are, maybe they should caveat it, because it is not easy to play in the non-alcoholic beer space. It's a very expensive space to play in, and that makes it unattainable for a lot of small brewers, unless they are contracting through somewhere else, and then you're cutting into your margins and all of that, and there's already a market leader there and there's a growing list of major craft breweries who are entering that space. And I feel like something like Hopwater from Allagash, like you said, it's true to their brand and it's a route that is more attainable. Trying to find the right word for it, but it feels like an easier route and I'm trying to avoid saying easy.

[00:10:10] Jessen Fante: No, it feels right. And I mean, to your point about non-alc doesn't mean non-alc beer. Do you remember what was that last week when you and I were talking about that study that found that these non-ALC adult beverages are kind of creating some confusion in the marketplace. There was one retailer quoted saying that they are being shoplifted by high school students. I think we need to make sure that the word adult gets squeezed into this part of the conversation because saying non-ALC beverages, I don't know, maybe this is just me, but I hear non-ALC beverage and I think Diet Coke. That could say a lot more about me than I realized. Yeah, there's a lot going on in the world of drinks where, you know what, maybe we should have pulled in some of our, maybe we should pull in some of our BevNET teammates for conversations like this. but there's a whole world out there that's not just NA beer.

[00:11:05] Zoe Licata: I mean, we already were starting to hear from some retailers last year that they have, they don't want any more craft non elk or other sort of non elk beer. They don't have any space for it anymore. So some of these brands that are starting to launch now, they took their time because they wanted to do it right, but now it might not be, it might be too late. So doing something where it's, just available at your tap room, maybe it's not even a non-alcoholic beer, it's in another space, seems to make much more sense.

[00:11:34] Jessen Fante: So literally everything you just said could have been applied to hard seltzer of the 2020 to 2021 time period. You want to do it, but it's too late and the retailers are full.

[00:11:46] Justin Kendall: Yeah. and the rush of your Sierra Nevada just getting in and to shoots and the list could go on and on Firestone Walker like. Basically, most of the major craft breweries are are top 10 craft breweries are getting in in some way, so the squeeze at the shelf becomes even more so when it's already squeezed.

[00:12:13] Jessen Fante: And Justin, you also talked to Josh about Allagash's new seasonal program. What did he tell you?

[00:12:18] Justin Kendall: So this is the first time that Allagash has launched a unified seasonal program under the house brand. And he said that surf house, it has two X sales of last year's summer loggers, their seasonal loggers that they released. And they're in three and a half times the retail outlets, which I thought was a pretty good measure of where things stand with the company right now, because they, or what the opportunity is when you present something that has. a little more uniformity to it.

[00:12:50] Jessen Fante: Yeah, I think retailers certainly appreciate the simplicity. I mean, I know we've covered their seasonal limited release offerings and You appreciate all of them. The artwork's usually beautiful. They're all kind of interesting beers, but it gets confusing as to like, what's a seasonal? What's a limited release? What is this? What is that? There's a lot of beers here. Either of you guys tried Surf House? Yes. Delicious, right? Really good.

[00:13:18] Justin Kendall: Really enjoyed it. So yeah, I think that they've definitely struck a nerve there with retailers and it seems to be working with consumers as well. And you know, it comes as flagships are struggling. So white was flat to down single digits at this point, you know, maybe the summer will help lift that up a bit, but when your flagship is, is seeing a little rougher of a ride, you know, this gives them a little boost. Much needed, too. Let's talk about something else that's going on that's not necessarily a positive for alcohol, and that's cannabis consumption cutting into alcohol. And that's something our friend Nadine Sarawat from Bernstein did an analysis of. There are three surveys, I think, that she—or reports that she did an analysis of and basically came back with Yes, it's cutting into some of the alcohol consumption, but there are a lot of caveats. And you covered this, Jess.

[00:14:24] Jessen Fante: Yeah, I did. And I mean, I remember like what, like 10 plus years ago when cannabis first started becoming legal in various states in the U.S. and there was like a panic throughout craft beer where everybody was saying like, oh, no, this is so bad for us. And I think after a few years of that, people calmed down and pointed to certain legal markets like Colorado. And we're able to say, oh, it's not really interplaying as much as we think. And people relaxed. And now here come these three surveys, which say, maybe you shouldn't have relaxed quite so much. So it's interesting because, you know, previously people were thinking that these were, you know, these two substances weren't interplaying too much. But it turns out they really might be. So Nadine did a deep dive on three different surveys. One came from Canada, two came from the U.S. Canada has been a legal market since 2018. It's the largest federally legal market for cannabis in the world, so it's a really good kind of case to study. 22.8% of people who use both cannabis and alcohol reported drinking less. which doesn't sound like too much, but that marks a 7.5% increase from 2020, which is pretty significant. However, when you look at the surveys from the U.S. side of the border, the number of people who say that they are drinking less is much bigger. So in the U.S., 36% of cannabis users who also drink reported drinking less. And in another survey from an organization called New Frontier, this is 2021 data, about half of the respondents, 47%, reported replacing some of their alcohol consumption with cannabis. So obviously three different surveys here have three different questions and are designed different ways, which certainly is a huge caveat if you know anything about survey design. And I know a tiny bit from grad school, but You know, Nadine packed this whole report of hers with a bunch of caveats. Everybody's favorite phrase. Correlation does not necessarily imply causation made an appearance. The other problem is that when you ask consumers about their quote unquote sin behaviors, they're not really reliable reporters.

[00:16:37] Justin Kendall: They're liars.

[00:16:38] Jessen Fante: Yes, they're liars. And Nadine also just straight out said it, quote, given alcohol's less favorable social perception today, it is possible that this underreporting by young consumers has increased favor in cannabis. Put another way, if it's cool to be sober curious or California sober, the extent of that sobriety may be overstated. So basically she says per, I mean, you guys tell me if I'm wrong, but perhaps Gen Z thinks it's lame to drink, so they're saying they don't when they actually do. But, you know, interesting stuff. I mean, all three surveys really did some looking at how this cannabis alcohol interplay broke down along gender lines, around long ages. Particularly in the U.S., the discrepancy between men and women using these things at different rates was much wider. In the U.S., more men have reported replacing some alcohol with cannabis. And I want to say 53% of men in the US said they were doing that compared to only 40% of women. And also in the US, 60% of both the 25 to 34 year olds and 35 to 44 year olds. So basically like 60% of everybody between 25 and 45 says they have swapped quote, at least some alcohol for cannabis. So all of these things are warning flags for beer on their own. But then when you look at the survey also asked, one of these surveys also asked people what their, if they do drink, what is their preferred beverage? And beer was far more popular among people who use cannabis than wine or spirits. So when you look at all of these things, it kind of all adds up to having some warning flags for beer, potentially at risk of losing some volume because consumers are more interested in cannabis than beer.

[00:18:29] Zoe Licata: I'm curious about what the relationship is between that fact and with men being the ones to trade in more because we know that beer drinkers, there's a lot of men in there. So how much does that factor in of like, yes, men are making the swap more, but they're also the primary group of these folks that are drinking beer. Does that make sense?

[00:18:53] Jessen Fante: Yeah, I mean, that's a huge part of this, you know? Yeah. Like, I mean, I don't know. I think some of the takeaway here might be for beer to start welcoming some women into the fold. Yeah.

[00:19:08] Zoe Licata: That was my theory. Oh, look at us.

[00:19:12] Justin Kendall: I mean, how many years do we have to say that?

[00:19:17] Zoe Licata: Just going to keep putting gentle reminders out there. Yeah. The young people one makes a lot of sense to me because a lot of those folks we've grown up where weed is widely accepted and also legal in some places. And so it's not like I feel like that's also a lot of young people's first introduction to any sort of like substance over alcohol. Really? Yeah. Wow. I mean, at least that's just from like personal experience and observation like growing up was that. you were going to smoke weed before you tried alcohol because it felt less of a, I don't know, less of a scary thing to do, or it felt like more like socially acceptable thing to do. So this is a wild thing to me right now. Yeah. And in a way almost like easier to access too, because you had friends who were like, knew somebody who was selling weed, which was easier to get than trying to get a fake ID or get someone to buy you alcohol.

[00:20:28] Jessen Fante: We had very different misspent youths.

[00:20:30] SPEAKER_??: For real.

[00:20:32] Zoe Licata: But yeah, so that plays into what these younger consumers now are used to.

[00:20:38] Jessen Fante: My husband is out of, you know, he's a teacher, so he's home for the summer. So we had lunch together yesterday. So what are you working on? I was telling him about this. And I was like, this makes sense to me because I think the LDA kids right now, the 21 to 25 year olds, they see cannabis, beer, wine, and spirits as kind of all being in the same bucket, that same mostly socially acceptable form of, I don't know, chemical relaxation. Is that like the right, I don't know if that's right or not. But yeah, exactly what you're saying. So something that came up a lot in these surveys that I think is pretty alarming is the opinions of 18 to 25 year olds in between the years 2015 and 2022, they see alcohol as becoming more harmful and cannabis, their opinion of cannabis as potentially providing great harm has become much less. They also find having, I mean, the rate here was having four or more drinks once or twice a week, which that's a lot. That is a lot. So it was like that compared to the idea of smoking once or twice a week. And they find drinking that much to be more than two times as harmful as smoking that much.

[00:22:00] Zoe Licata: Well, we've also grown up in the place where the reputation of alcohol has been getting worse at the same time that the reputation of weed has been getting better. So like, like socially, so it, it's gonna completely alter our perception of it.

[00:22:15] Justin Kendall: I was at the grocery store yesterday and it's, it's a small town grocery store. It's, I would think, you know, would be fairly conservative, but right there on the shelf next to the single serves of all the, you know, light beers are four packs of can of drinks from, can of Bev's from climbing kites. And I think there was another company as well. But they were selling four packs of various, you know, strength of product. I think they ranged from like $23.99 to $24.99. I thought that that was sort of eye-opening to me that, you know, it's already in chain grocery here. But that also comes with a caveat that the state is trying to I guess limit or restrict this, and as of July 1, those products that are on shelf now may not be able to be there, given that the state is trying to change the definition of a serving size or a container size.

[00:23:20] Zoe Licata: Yeah, even is it just Massachusetts or a couple of states that did this too, where they changed where you can sell some of these products. So around here, a lot of the hemp derived THC products were available in like liquor stores and wine stores. And now they're not going to be available there. You have to get it from a dispensary. So it's going to be curious how those types of regulation changes are going to change how much consumers are doing these things. Because now you can't just like go to the wine shop down the street and get a bottle of wine and a couple of your cannabis beverages. You have to go to two separate places.

[00:23:58] Justin Kendall: Believe me, I was annoying the people in the grocery store by standing there and taking pictures of the cannabis when this couple just wanted to like stock up. And maybe they heard that these products weren't going to be available as of July 1st. So they're like, buy them while you can. Did you ask him? Didn't because they yeah, I was already annoying them enough by being there in my The Brewbound shirt like taking pictures Fair I am the guy in the grocery store that takes pictures of the alcohol or I guess cannabis section at this point yeah, I mean I hate to leave this conversation off on a We don't know but like

[00:24:39] Jessen Fante: I don't know. I mean, I don't know. Like, clearly something's happening here. And I wish I had advice, but also we're journalists. It's not really my role to give anybody advice.

[00:24:53] Justin Kendall: It's hard to know at this point because I think a lot of people are searching for answers, even wholesalers. Some companies are carrying products. Some aren't putting them on their trucks yet because it is such a weird gray area that no one's sure how it's going to shake out. And then you have these state legislatures who are going back and just reworking language. And a business like Big Grove, which is invested in climbing kites, is really in flux because this investment that they made in this company, this presumably very expensive investment to gain a majority stake in this business, becomes at risk because a state legislature says, no, we are going to redefine how much we consider the legal limit, I guess, or the allowable limit and the allowable serving size and container size.

[00:25:56] Zoe Licata: Yeah, well, it's kind of always known it's a risk too because federally it's not legal. So there's always this chance that federally they could do something that could make it so you make it even harder for you to do anything. I mean, you have to pay in cash at like dispensaries because they can't use banks. Like it's like still so many hurdles there that exist.

[00:26:19] Jessen Fante: Yeah, and one thing that I pulled out of Nadine's report is that there's a record proportion of Americans who think cannabis should be legal, which is 70%. So when you look at like, what on earth do 70% of Americans agree on anymore? Like almost nothing. So the fact that It's not federally legal, and this is another conversation for another time, but I don't see it becoming federally legal anytime soon. When you look at the ways various state governments are treating other things that we generally used to believe as being federally protected rights, and this is not the time or place for that conversation. But I just, I don't see how we get there if we're not there already, which is unfortunate because there's a lot of businesses that could probably do really well.

[00:27:11] Justin Kendall: So let's switch gears to another beverage type that was making some headways and maybe had a few step backs, and you did a very thorough job of examining the segment, and that's hard kombucha, Zoe. So give us some of your key takeaways from this story that is The Brewbound.com and you can read if you're The Brewbound Insider.

[00:27:35] Zoe Licata: So this story was kind of sparked by the recent-ish now acquisition of flying embers by Joonshine. And we also saw some heavy investment in Joonshine earlier this year. They have been seen as kind of like the leader now in hard kombucha. And when we've had various conversations with them, they've even said, you know, we've had to focus a lot on our canned cocktails. They have these spirits-based canned cocktails line. They also have a light lager brand now. So hard kombucha may be the foundation of what that company is, but the segment itself is not very large and you can't do too much. You can't survive as a national brand, it appears, with just hard kombucha alone right now. And it had a very similar early life to some other segments, like potentially Hard Seltzer, where it grew really fast in the beginning. And it seemed like there's a lot of brands that were trying to make national pushes. We also saw some big beer brands get into it. Boston Beer had theirs, which I don't think exists anymore. I think AB also invested in one. I don't think that one exists.

[00:28:45] Jessen Fante: But Boston Beer had Tura and AB had, I want to say it was Combrucha.

[00:28:50] Justin Kendall: Yeah.

[00:28:52] Zoe Licata: So these companies were jumping on it and then kind of had to pull back because it wasn't the big segment that they thought it was going to be. So I talked to a bunch of leaders from various companies, including MateMaker, Nova, Easy Hard Kombucha, Joonshine, Giant, as well as Giuseppe from InvestBev, who is one of the investment firms that is feels very positively about the segment and invested in Juneshine. Just talking about what comes next for hard kombucha. Why is it not doing what it's supposed to be doing and can it be bigger than it is? And one of the biggest things was hard kombucha has a reputation problem based on the the non-alcoholic version, the original kombucha. It was known as this thing that is kind of earthy, crunchy, very focused on the potential health benefits, like helping with your gut health, and it created this reputation for itself that once it got an alcoholic version, there's either folks that were completely averse to it because they knew it was kind of this funky fermented beverage that you don't really know what it tastes like, or if you're into that, maybe it's kind of vinegary, and The other hand was the folks who were like, well, I'm drinking this because you're saying it's healthy. I'm not going to drink it with alcohol in it. That kind of defeats the purpose. And so you were kind of stuck between these two places as a hard kombucha brand of how do you show consumers that this is actually a different product that is really focused on fruit and flavor and refreshment. When I talked to one of the founders of MateMaker, he pointed out that maybe we should really be leaning into that, into what does hard kombucha answer that leads into what consumers are asking for across the board in Bevel? Like flavor, like knowing where your ingredients are coming from and what they are. this more, quote unquote, clean alcohol or beverages. Because those things we're seeing, like F&Bs are doing crazy numbers right now. So why can't hard kombucha latch onto that? So it was a really fun story to do, to just kind of explore what hard kombucha can possibly be. Its other issue is that it kind of has still a regional Consumers in very specific regions are looking for this product, and it's not necessarily a big thing on a national scale. Particularly, California is like the place for hard kombucha, and that's where a lot of these companies are based, and where a lot of these companies are deciding to just stay focused right now. I mean, California is massive, so if you were just focused on that one state alone, you're going to do pretty well if you can connect with those consumers. those consumers are more familiar with kombucha in general they're more open to trying some of these other products and so they totally embraced it and you see these products all over the place other places not so much um but there is indication that kind of the east coast is is going to be one of the next places for it colorado potentially is going to be a next place for hard kombucha places that lean into some of these outdoorsy sort of characteristics some of these like being by the water or doing outdoor activities. Those consumers seem to also be in line with who hard kombucha consumers are. I don't think it's going to be something that happens quick at all. I don't think anyone has that perception. Giuseppe from Investbed was pretty confident in saying, you know, I don't think this is something you can just rely on hard kombucha to be your thing right now. But if you can do it successfully in a very concentrated market, then you'll be okay, which is something we've heard craft is needed to do as well. So that seems to be kind of universal for a lot of brands right now.

[00:32:52] Justin Kendall: I mean, most of those companies aren't just making hard kombucha anymore, either. You look at Juneshine, they've got canned cocktails and a light lager.

[00:33:01] Zoe Licata: Giant is doing like, their main focus is their hard tea. They still have hard kombucha, but tea is their thing right now. NovaEasy, they also have Novo, which is their craft beer brand. So almost all of them are doing other things.

[00:33:18] Justin Kendall: What's the Chicago one?

[00:33:20] Zoe Licata: Luna Bay. Luna Bay.

[00:33:21] Justin Kendall: Luna Bay is doing what? Hard Tea?

[00:33:24] Zoe Licata: Yeah, Luna Bay introduced Hard Tea this past year or the beginning of this year. So yeah, everyone's kind of diversifying their portfolios, which is like I said, it's pretty universal strategy across the Valk right now.

[00:33:41] Justin Kendall: When was the last time you had Hard Kombucha? not to put you on the spot.

[00:33:46] Zoe Licata: I know. Within the past month or two, I've definitely grabbed a June Shine. Look at you. They have some spicy ones that are really good. I like a good spicy beverage, so... It's made it in there, but it's not... The other problem is people aren't looking to have a bunch of hard kombuchas in one sitting. So... it's you're you're not really it's not really a big volume play.

[00:34:19] Justin Kendall: It's like a one in maybe two, maybe two and done product.

[00:34:28] Zoe Licata: I usually will get them to like keep in my fridge for a little bit and I'll have like one after work like sitting outside or something because it is very refreshing. But I'm not I'm not bringing it to Ardarty if that says anything.

[00:34:46] Justin Kendall: So pop question for you both. Remember earlier in the year when the flavor companies were saying that this was the year of Spicy? Do you think that that's really taken hold within Bevalk?

[00:35:00] Jessen Fante: I think like next year will be the year of Spicy and Bevalk because I personally feel as though Bev-Alk is a little bit behind some of the flavor trends just with how long it takes to get things approved. But yeah, I mean, I feel like Zoe's pointed out we're seeing spicy June shines. I think spicy margaritas have been a thing for years now, but that's not normally sold as an RTD product, though there are beginning to be some of those. I know Medela Chilada's got some, I think a couple of spicy flavors.

[00:35:38] Zoe Licata: I have also been drinking a lot of those lately. Have you? Yeah. Those have been like, particularly just like getting one Tallboy and like, that's what I drank during the game five was I just grabbed one and nursed that for the whole game and it was pretty good. Did the Celtics win?

[00:35:59] Jessen Fante: Yeah, that was the final one. I'm confusing the hockey and their game seven. I'm a very unreliable narrator on the sports boys front. Zoe, I thought of you last week, because I went out and got my hair done, and then I went and sat at the bar at one of my favorite restaurants in my town and had dinner. And I asked the bartender, I was like, what do you want to drink? And I was like, can you make a dirty martini? And he's like, of course, I was like, can you make it spicy? And he did, he made the exact spicy, dirty martini that I love and enjoy. And the last time I had one out and about in the world was with you. Yum. Yeah.

[00:36:38] Justin Kendall: Well, the reunion between you two is coming very soon.

[00:36:42] Zoe Licata: We'll get some more dirty, spicy martinis. For sure.

[00:36:47] Justin Kendall: Well, with that, we should probably get back on the beat and reporting the news that we'll probably talk about next week. So with that, we'll say that's our show for this week. Thanks to our one man audio team, Joe, thanks to Jess and Zoe for all they do. And thanks to all of you for listening. We'll be back next week.