Brewbound Podcast: All the News Before Thanksgiving/Drinksgiving/Blackout Wednesday

[00:00:00] Justin Kendall: Heading to CBC? Kick things off the day before at Brewbound's meetup at Love City Brewing in Philly, Sunday, April 19th from 5 to 7 p.m. Connect with beer industry leaders, grab a drink, and catch up with the Brewbound team. It's free to attend and walking distance from the convention center. Head to Brewbound.com slash lovecity.rsvp. And don't forget to catch the Brewbound team at booth 956 during CBC. Drinksgiving, Thanksgiving, Blackout Wednesday. Here's the Brewbound podcast right before it all begins. Hello and welcome to the Brewbound podcast. I'm Justin Kendall. I'm Jessica Infante.

[00:00:51] Zoe Licata: And I'm Zoe Licata.

[00:00:52] Justin Kendall: And we're back together again. You two did a great job of holding down the podcast in my absence the last couple of weeks. So thank you very much for doing that.

[00:01:02] Jessica Infante: It was literally our jobs.

[00:01:05] Justin Kendall: You always say that, but it's...

[00:01:07] Jessica Infante: But it was fun. We had fun. I had fun, Zoe.

[00:01:10] Justin Kendall: It seemed like you had fun. And I listened to both episodes, except for the part where I come in and, you know, do an interview here and there.

[00:01:19] Jessica Infante: Yeah, I mean, you're already there for that, so you don't need to listen to it again. Nah. But yeah, we had a great talk with Scott Newman Bale from Shorts. Really interesting stuff that they have going on over in Michigan. And we covered the news.

[00:01:32] Zoe Licata: Yeah, it was just me and Jess chatting about beer like we do sometimes. Girl talk. Yeah.

[00:01:39] Justin Kendall: Well, you both did fabulous, and not to be a downer, I was out because my dad died a couple weeks ago, as Jess says. I joined the Sad Kids Club, and I'm not gonna cry on this platform, but it sucks, and... It sucks.

[00:01:55] Jessica Infante: It's okay if you wanna cry.

[00:01:57] Justin Kendall: Sort of, but, you know, we're trying to be a little bit stronger right now, so we're gonna have a celebration of life. It'll be cool. That's kinda where we are.

[00:02:07] Jessica Infante: I was going to say that you did such a great job unplugging and spending time with your family, and we were really proud of you. Yes.

[00:02:17] Justin Kendall: Well, thank you. I was literally in no position to check anything in those days. It's one of those where it's like, You get a call and you got to run, like literally run out of a root canal appointment to go to the hospital. So fun times.

[00:02:38] Zoe Licata: Life likes to throw curveballs.

[00:02:41] Justin Kendall: He had a lot of health issues, so it's not totally unexpected, but it always stings.

[00:02:47] Jessica Infante: It sucks and we're so sorry. We were happy to be able to hold down the fort so you could spend time with your fam, because that's far more important than anything that goes on here.

[00:02:56] Justin Kendall: I appreciate that. And I actually felt oddly refreshed coming back, which is probably something I needed was some time off. So I really appreciate what you both did.

[00:03:09] Jessica Infante: Well, let's work on getting you a real vacation in the near future. Yeah.

[00:03:12] Justin Kendall: Yeah. Well, let's get into a little of the things that we have to get into, which is Brewbound Live. It's coming up December 6th and 7th. You already know about it. We've talked about it on this podcast multiple times. It's in Marina Del Rey. We're going to be there live in person, 40 plus speakers, great conversations, great networking, great time to be in California and not in Iowa or probably Massachusetts by then. And we'd love to see you there if you can make it. There are details out there. If you want tickets, hit us up. We know some folks that can help arrange that. Agenda's out there.

[00:03:49] Jessica Infante: Yeah, lots of great conversations. I'm super pumped for all of this, and I can't believe I'm going to be navigating this conference with both a baby and my mother in tow, but that's where we all are. If you want to meet Cora, come to Proof Out Live.

[00:04:10] Justin Kendall: Our 41st speaker.

[00:04:14] Jessica Infante: She's great at babbling.

[00:04:16] Zoe Licata: I'm sure everyone else will be great at babbling after either the June shine party or firestone Walker parties that we have while I prove our life as well.

[00:04:24] Jessica Infante: Pulling it right back around. So a great job. Thank you.

[00:04:27] Justin Kendall: So as I mentioned, at the top of the show, we are heading into the Thanksgiving holiday. And by the time you're listening to this, it's Wednesday. And that is a day that's been dubbed drinks getting Blackout Wednesday. It's happening. And I certainly am not taking part in any of that, but I'm going to ask both of you, are you taking part in this heading into the Thanksgiving holiday? Starting with Zoe, because I think we got a better shot.

[00:04:54] Zoe Licata: No, honestly, no. I think I've talked about it on the podcast before, but, like, Drinksgiving or Blackout Wednesday or whatever was not a thing in my town. I think it's because we're so tiny and there's no, really, there's not really any bars anywhere. So, no, I will be driving in possibly the worst time to drive ever, Wednesday evening, to my parents in Western Mass, and chilling in the woods, not doing anything exciting. Yeah, Northfield, Massachusetts, it's not about Blackout Wednesday, unfortunately.

[00:05:28] Jessica Infante: I have many thoughts here. I have never in my life heard of Blackout Wednesday or Drinksgiving. Is this new? Did CGA make it up? Do cooler people than me say it? Because I just always thought we all called it Thanksgiving Eve.

[00:05:46] Zoe Licata: But, you know, maybe I'm wrong. I've never been.

[00:06:07] Jessica Infante: Can we meet there at some point in time? Yes. Not on that one. Not on Wednesday. Yes. Great. So no, I have never really partaken in this pretend holiday either because I don't know, like I went to a tiny all girls Catholic high school. We fraternized with the young men who graduated from the neighboring boys schools. And The people that I kept in touch with from high school is who I talked to. I didn't need to go to a bar to see other people. I don't know. One of my good friends would always say, oh, are we going to go out? Are we going to go to the bars? We'll see what we see. I'm like, Meg, if I wanted to see them, I would see them. But I don't want to see them, so I'm not going to go to the bars with you just to see who we see. When I was 24, I believe, Maybe 23, 23 or 24, I actually scheduled to get my wisdom teeth out on the day before Thanksgiving so that I wouldn't have to deal with people being like, okay, you want to go to Mars Town? Let's go, let's go to the bar. I don't know what this says about me, many things.

[00:07:09] Zoe Licata: How was your Thanksgiving after that recovery?

[00:07:13] Jessica Infante: Here's the other thing about me. I don't like Thanksgiving. Yeah. Yeah, like I don't eat turkey. The sides are all kind of could take or leave. Not all that into it. Once, I think I was in high school because I still had the metabolisms to be able to do this, but I sat out dinner. I had nothing for dinner. I ate a slice of every pie that was available.

[00:07:35] Zoe Licata: Appropriate. Right? That was pretty good. Justin, what does the Blackout Wednesday scene look like in Iowa?

[00:07:43] Justin Kendall: I actually think it's a thing where college slash high school people get together at a bar, but I have well crossed that threshold of doing that sort of thing the night before Thanksgiving, especially being an old man and having a child that is under two years old.

[00:08:02] Jessica Infante: I mean, the real question here is how many slices of pie are you gonna eat?

[00:08:05] Justin Kendall: A lot. But I'm trying not to, given I've just spent an ungodly amount of money on clothes from Bonobos that have yet to arrive, and I have to figure out what fits and what does not, heading into Brewbound live.

[00:08:21] Jessica Infante: Yeah, the timing of this is really tough, but we will make it.

[00:08:25] Zoe Licata: Yeah, mainly for just clothes purposes.

[00:08:28] Justin Kendall: Exactly.

[00:08:30] Young Lion: This episode is brought to you by the Craft Brewers Conference, where big ideas, bold beers, and brutally honest shop talk collide. Join thousands of industry pros leveling up their game. Don't miss it. Register now at craftbrewersconference.com.

[00:08:50] Justin Kendall: Let's get into some of the news of the week, and we sort of had a milestone moment, at least in the convenience channel, and this is something I believe you wrote about, Zoe, and that's New Belgium Voodoo Ranger Imperial IPA has passed Blue New Belgian White in C-store dollar sales. So, not volume, but C-store dollars. kind of a big deal since Blue Moon is the number one beer out there. But this just shows you how big of a gains that Voodoo Ranger has made in the C-Store channel.

[00:09:23] Zoe Licata: Yeah, this is a milestone that was like tentatively it kind of happened a little bit in March, but it went away and we kind of all like it just went back to Blue Moon really dominating it, even though their sales have been down. And now Voodoo Ranger Imperial IPA is back saying, yeah, we're the number one spot. And it feels like, I mean, with the timing of where this is happening, where it's kind of after the summer selling season and now well into the fall, that this could possibly sustain itself, especially as trends have continued for both of those brands in either direction. But we know that Voodoo Ranger has really found its place in C-stores. That is where they can do a lot of those 19.2 ounce cans sales that people are looking for those higher ABV beverages. The amount of dollars between the two brands isn't huge, but we could see that get bigger as the weeks go on.

[00:10:21] Justin Kendall: The gap in C-Store is a little more than $222,000, but when you look at overall, there's an $83 million gap between Blue Moon and Voodoo Ranger when you factor in the grocery and drug and everything else that Circana scans pick up. So still quite a bit of distance for Blue Moon as the number one craft brand, but in C-Store, this is definitely notable.

[00:10:50] Zoe Licata: Yeah, especially because C-Stores, as we know, are the kind of one place right now where craft is getting any sort of gains. It's leveled out a bit as we near towards the end of the year in terms of volume, but it's been in the green while a lot of these other channels have been in the red this year.

[00:11:08] Jessica Infante: Yeah. And across like the Voodoo Ranger family, I think they've really just kind of unlocked this whole channel. And we know that other brewers are looking to see stores specifically to see what they can do here. So it makes sense. I mean, if that's where the money is, it's certainly where you should be going. But I think there are some things that work and some things that don't. And I think what we really know is it's the 19.2 ounce single serve cans. So if you don't have that in your repertoire, don't expect to make any kind of meaningful splash in C-Store just yet. And if you are looking to C-Stores, you got to show up with one of those.

[00:11:42] Justin Kendall: And it is limited shelf space. And we'll talk about that at Brewbound Live. You'll be able to see that with our conversation with Extra Mile. But let's get into some of the other news of the week. And there's a lot of sign of the times out there. And you both have covered a lot of this. You've got Made by the Water ceasing large-scale production in New Orleans and moving to pretty much a dedicated contract model. There's Young Lion in the Finger Lakes region of New York selling its brewery and taproom to Other Half. That's going to be its eighth location. You've got a deal that we're going to talk about with Riverwalk and Ipswich. And then you've got Anchor workers out there who are raising money to buy the brand IP and recipes from Anchor in that fire sale or whatever you want to call it at this point. But a lot of that is just, it keeps piling up week over week. We keep seeing these things. So I'd like to get into a little bit of what we're seeing out there and how this is playing out.

[00:12:48] Jessica Infante: So yeah, let's start with Made by the Water. They are a portfolio company that merged last fall with Foberg Brewing in New Orleans. And if you have been following along, you know that Foberg Brewing was formerly Dixie Brewing, had that brand name for over a century. And then in 2020, following the murder of George Floyd, decided that they did not want to have their name be so enmeshed with the Confederacy. So they switched to Foberg, which is a popular New Orleans term for a neighborhood. And they have a huge brewery in New Orleans East, a massive facility. The family that owns Foeberg, the Bensons, poured a lot of money into it. And when they merged with Made by the Water, which is the parent company of Palmetto, Catawba, and Oyster City, all breweries across the Southeast, they really thought that this is going to be our home for production for our whole family. We can get up to 100,000 barrels here. You guys did a great job covering this while I was out with Cora. They started shutting down other facilities across the family. But something that I don't know that any of us are aware of at the time was that back in the spring in March or April, there was a big fire at Foberg that shut down production there for about a month. And during that time, they had relied on contract production and they have these relationships with contract producers just in case, during hurricane season, if they need to shut down Foberg, they have these partners in place. So they leaned on them during the fire shutdown and they realized like, oh my gosh, we can save so much more money here. So I spoke with Alexey Sekmakis, the CEO of the whole company. He told me that they're looking at a water bill at the Foberg Brewery, that's $50,000 a month. They've got a tax bill that's $500,000 a year. They've been trying to work with the local government to bring down either of these things and that's not really working. So in order to make the facility what they need, they would need to make some investments there. But given these two huge looming bills, they've decided that it's just not worth it. So they're calling it a wash and leaning on their contract network, which is Indy Brew in Georgia and New Realm in Virginia. I have a lot of questions. I don't really think we've been able to get the answers, but mostly it's like, how did you not find these things out before you bought this brewery or merged with this company? I mean, Justin, you pointed this out, the tax bill is the tax bill no matter what you're doing at the location. So while they are keeping Fulberg open for the time being for their taproom and their events, and they're still going to do some production there like R&D and they'll produce a few beers for the local market, that's not going to make that half a million dollars in taxes a bait at all. So I don't know.

[00:15:33] Justin Kendall: It's rough out there. the amount of investment that was made to revive Dixie and make that brewery basically bring it back from the dead. I think if I remember right. Yeah, that was major investment that was made by the. The Benson's yeah, the Benson's who owned the New Orleans Pelicans and the New Orleans Saints So they're pro sports team owners. They're got more money than I'll ever see in my entire life, but What was it all for at this point? And then what becomes of a facility like that? We have seen companies shut down major facilities. I mean I Monster slash Canarchy shuts down the Austin facility for Oscar Blues. I'm sure that there's others that I can't think of at the moment, but there's just a lot of consolidation that's going on right now. And I think that it's a scary marketplace to be in.

[00:16:36] Jessica Infante: Yeah, and that's the same situation with Ipswich and Riverwalk right now, too. This story will be up on the site and in the newsletter this week, but Ipswich Ale Brewery, which is one of the oldest craft breweries in New England, is going to cease production at their current location, and they've got an expanded contract partnership with Riverwalk. Both these breweries are up in my neck of the woods, the North Shore of Massachusetts. And Riverwalk does a lot of contract brewing for a lot of brands, and they've always been really open about that being an important part of their business model. But now, instead of just making the beer for Ipswich, they're also going to handle warehousing and storage of some ingredients, and they'll be shipping the beer to Ipswich's wholesalers. It's interesting because it's kind of like one of these partnerships that we just keep seeing every week, but it's a little different. No ownership is changing hands, but the real meat of the story is that production is ceasing at a long story brewery that a lot of work went into over the last two decades. They had a lot of expansion. And the other somewhat similar thing here is that Ipswich is actually owned by Huntwick Capital Group, which is another portfolio company up here on the North Shore that also happens to be publicly traded, took ownership of Ipswich in 2019, I believe. The story in craft beer that's so common is founder has dream, founder loves beer, founder builds big company, but that's not always what happens. There's a lot of ownership that's not just these passionate home brewers turned brewery founders. There's ownership groups that are major financial concerns.

[00:18:18] Justin Kendall: And part of this is probably too that the on-premise hasn't come back. COVID has been a major hangover effect on a lot of people. And I think we're all searching for answers as to what it's going to take to bring back the on-premise channel. And that includes at the brewery sales. And then there was another deal last week, which was announced. It's not complete yet, but Other Half is going to be taking over Young Lion Brewing's space in the Finger Lakes region. That's a brewery and tap room, but they're not taking the brand. So the Young Lion brand is going to be independent of that deal. It's carved out of it. So it's going to continue on, but just won't be brewed at that facility once that deal closes, I think in January.

[00:19:07] Zoe Licata: Yeah, a lot of these deals, it seems like people are focusing on, they're separating out the worth or value of their brand and of those products, and then the cost or worth of the production and capacity of any facilities or spaces, and valuing what is worth what, and is it, do you need to sustain both? Do you need to change your approach to maybe sustain one or the other? So, I mean, that's what we saw with Anchor. The workers that are trying to buy it are focused on only really picking up the branded IP and recipes and everything because they know they can't sustain or try to buy everything from that place, including property. They are being very realistic in that it's not really going to be feasible. And so if they can pick up a brand, maybe they can lease space from whoever owns a new building or can find a new space to make those recipes. It's just too much for a lot of people now to be doing everything and being in control of everything on your own.

[00:20:13] Jessica Infante: Yeah. I mean, there's no shortage of contract production space and time out there right now. That sounds like it's just really smart of the anchor crew to want to do it that way, but God, what a loss. They've been in that spot forever. Yeah.

[00:20:29] Justin Kendall: They got a long way to go to that. We funder it's already raised a hundred and just under $130,000 is what I last saw at early Monday morning.

[00:20:41] Zoe Licata: They're aiming for at least 2 million.

[00:20:44] Justin Kendall: Yeah.

[00:20:44] Zoe Licata: So quite a ways to go. Yeah.

[00:20:48] Justin Kendall: All right, let's play Another Round or Tabbing Out and then we can get out of here. The first one, I know both of you are giant F1 fans, so this will come as no surprise to you, but Heineken Invested is investing a lot in silver. It's Michelob Ultra, Challenger brand, low calorie, low carb. They were a big deal this past weekend in Las Vegas, Heineken branding all over the place, Heineken silver on the sphere. If you looked at the racetrack, it was all over the racetrack, zero, zero. And I think there might've been some silver advertisements there too, but large focus on zero, zero during the race. So. F1 is super hot right now. There's a lot of buzz about this race. Are you buying Another Round or are you Tabbing Out on this level of marketing, making a difference for this Heineken Silver brand?

[00:21:44] Jessica Infante: I am out on this for a couple reasons. Heineken Silver, they've said themselves, is designed to be a Mic Ultra challenger, and I'm sorry, but nobody that comes from Mic to Ultra ever makes it. Michelob Ultra is the Afghanistan of beers. It cannot be conquered. Many people have tried. It also has a 20-year head start. They launched it this year with $100 million behind it, and the scans are just... So you helped me poll numbers for that story last week.

[00:22:18] Zoe Licata: Yeah, it's not even close, a little bit close to anywhere near the amount they're investing in that brand. So, I mean, as of right now, it doesn't seem like it's worth that much investment.

[00:22:31] Justin Kendall: I think that they have spent around $25 million of that $100 million just on this Vegas trip.

[00:22:39] Jessica Infante: On the sphere?

[00:22:40] Justin Kendall: Yeah, on the sphere.

[00:22:41] Jessica Infante: Where did the sphere come from?

[00:22:42] Zoe Licata: Did I live under a rock for a period of time? That might have been your maternity leave time gap. The sphere is loud and in charge now, in addition to the Vegas strip. What a world to come back to.

[00:22:57] Justin Kendall: And we're going to be right there during CBC.

[00:23:00] Zoe Licata: Yeah, for CBC.

[00:23:01] Justin Kendall: We will be.

[00:23:02] Zoe Licata: Yeah. I am not an F1 fan, Other Half recently discovering through friends who Charles Leclerc is and having my TikTok be filled with thirst traps now. I know they have a very prominent fan base though, and it's been quickly growing in the US, particularly when they started doing that Netflix special.

[00:23:22] Jessica Infante: You mean F1, not Heineken Silver, right?

[00:23:25] Zoe Licata: I mean F1. Yeah, I'm not talking about Heineken Silver. Just had to clarify. No, no, no. F1 itself. So I can understand why a brand would want to attach itself to F1 because they have this big growing fan base. it seems like a interesting and potentially selective fan base in terms of like you are tying yourself to a very niche group of people. And it's not quite at the level as any other sporting events are yet, I don't think, at least in the US. Everywhere else, it's much bigger. But it's a mega investment for something. I mean, this is the first year they've done it in Vegas since when, like the 70s or 80s or something, like this is the first year of a 10-year partnership. And so they didn't even know how this race was going to go or how any sort of sponsorship with this event was going to go. It could have been an absolute disaster. I think it was kind of 50-50. So yeah, it was interesting, a bold choice. We'll see if it was worth it. I mean, we're talking about it, so at least they've done enough for us to have conversations about it.

[00:24:38] Jessica Infante: Yeah, I mean, I hope they brought every single wholesaler they have out there.

[00:24:43] Justin Kendall: Having watched the 8-minute highlight video, I will say that it was very impressive seeing the level of branding. That was some old-school, everywhere, just everywhere marketing. I don't hate it. Do I think it's going to move the needle? I'm not sure. Maybe not to the level of that they need it to, but if you're going to make that move and you're going to make a big play, I think the first time in Vegas is a big deal. And I think that if there's ever a time that Michelob Ultra might be slightly, very, very slightly weakened, it might be this time.

[00:25:26] Jessica Infante: Yeah, you're not wrong about that. But the other thing is, they're not the only ones that are making that particular pounds at this particular time, because Medela Oro is doing it and is actually making some inroads. So we'll see. It's just like that level of marketing spend and that kind of just like plaster the world with it used to work in a different time. how crowded the marketplace is right now, I don't know. I'm not trying to be a hater.

[00:25:57] Zoe Licata: Yeah. And also, like, the Heineken Silver seems to be targeting events like F1 or like the Coachellas and things that they've been pretty prominent at that tend to be populated by pretty well-off white people. And I don't know if that's the best demographic to be targeting right now in this current Bevelc environment.

[00:26:24] Justin Kendall: Fair point. Let's do one more, Another Round Tabbing Out and Shiner is getting into the non-alcoholic beer space with Rodeo. I think I'm saying it, but there's a zero at the end of instead of an O. Rodeo zero. Do we have to say it like that?

[00:26:42] Zoe Licata: I hope not.

[00:26:43] Justin Kendall: It is a golden brew. They have more non-ALK beers on the way later in 2024. They're not alone. Sierra Nevada is getting in with Trail Pass. We tried that at the NBWA annual convention in Las Vegas. Boston Beer is making NA a priority to a degree, targeting 1.5 million cases by, I think, the end of 2024. Athletic is on pace to do a quarter of a million barrels this year. At the same time, retailers are saying, hey, I think we're a little full up at this point. So are you buying Another Round or Tabbing Out on the influx of N.A. beer brands? Is there space in your heart for any more?

[00:27:30] Zoe Licata: In my personal heart, sure. Give me all the NA beers so I can drink them myself and get some more high quality non-alcohol in my fridge. But in the marketplace, I think I'm Tabbing Out. It feels eerily similar to when hard seltzer was happening, and a lot of these larger brands started coming out with hard seltzer a year or two plus after the initial boom, and it felt like you were kind of late to the game. And if you weren't already established, or you had things set in place to make sure you had placements, and you had an audience, a consumer base, you weren't going to really make any inroads there. And this feels, it feels a little bit like that.

[00:28:19] Jessica Infante: So are you in my brain because I was just thinking this feels like seltzer.

[00:28:25] Zoe Licata: We just work together.

[00:28:26] Justin Kendall: It's totally the gold rush phase. That's exactly what this is. It's everybody's a miner and they're headed toward San Francisco or wherever and they're ready to pan for gold with their non-alcoholic beers.

[00:28:41] Jessica Infante: I hope they're just making them all correctly and adhering to the safety regulations. Not that there's any regulations, there's not. They're just adhering to safety best practices.

[00:28:51] Zoe Licata: Yes. I think I feel a little bit better about when it comes to that stuff right now with the beers that are coming out. I feel like I trust these larger brand names more than some of the smaller non-alcoholic offerings that were coming out in the beginning. But we've been talking about not all for so long and about the opportunity there. And now you're finally doing it. Now it's the marketplace seems to already be established.

[00:29:17] Jessica Infante: Yeah. And anybody else coming in is just a, I wouldn't even call it a fast follower.

[00:29:23] Zoe Licata: Yeah. And you're going to be fighting for a very small portion of the pie. no Thanksgiving pun intended. And I mean, we heard it from Mary Giver from Whole Foods. They're focused on their top players already. They're going to be making sure that the people who already have the tie numbers are getting the space that they need and the support that they need.

[00:29:44] Justin Kendall: I'm all for more non-ALCs, especially by companies with sort of the means to properly produce them and the track record of quality. As long as those things are in play, I'm all about it because I'm too old to be on the other end of the spectrum at this point with nine and a half, 10%, 19.2 ounce cans. I'm not about that life.

[00:30:10] Zoe Licata: I'm not about that life either. I don't think it's just an age thing. And I would love to have more non-alcohol beers. Like I love me a athletic Upside Down, but I would love to try some other non-alcohol Golden Ale or anything else you want to throw at me. It's just like any other beer. I don't want to just stick to one thing all the time. Selfishly, I want more.

[00:30:31] Justin Kendall: I'm with you, I think it's a challenge in the marketplace. It'll be fun though to see how this shakes out and hopefully, you know, there's some innovations in here that are exciting and make people excited about beer in general.

[00:30:47] Jessica Infante: Do you guys want Another Round? Are you Tabbing Out on the Rodeo name with its zero? Tabbing Out. Cuteness.

[00:30:57] Zoe Licata: I need to tab out on any name where I can't look at it and immediately know, at least mostly correctly, how to pronounce it.

[00:31:04] SPEAKER_??: Fair.

[00:31:05] Justin Kendall: I like it just for being able to make a pun headline.

[00:31:08] Jessica Infante: Also fair. The first thought I had upon reading it was, I don't know why, but I thought of Rodeo from Rock of Love, and that really dates me and reveals a whole lot about my taste in television.

[00:31:19] Justin Kendall: I don't even want to Google that.

[00:31:21] Jessica Infante: Justin, do you remember it was my first Brewbound Live and Tommy Arthur gave the keynote and in his presentation, he had a picture of poison from like their heyday. And you said something and I was like, this is not Bret Michaels. Bret Michaels from Rock of Love? No.

[00:31:38] Justin Kendall: Oh, it's him. Yeah.

[00:31:40] Jessica Infante: And he loved rodeo. I don't really remember how that ended for her, but she was a contestant. There's your first influencer deal. You're welcome. You're welcome, Shiner.

[00:31:51] Zoe Licata: Look out for in 2024.

[00:31:54] Justin Kendall: Well, that's gonna wrap up this show. Everyone out there. We hope you have a happy, safe Thanksgiving drinks giving Blackout Wednesday if you choose to partake. Although maybe you should just drink a partake at that point. Anyway, we'll be back next week.