Brewbound Podcast: A Brewbound Live Recap, Plus Karl Strauss CEO Chris Cramer

[00:00:00] Justin Kendall: Heading to CBC? Kick things off the day before at Brewbound's meetup at Love City Brewing in Philly, Sunday, April 19th from 5 to 7 p.m. Connect with beer industry leaders, grab a drink, and catch up with the Brewbound Live. It's free to attend and walking distance from the convention center. Head to Brewbound.com slash lovecity.rsvp. And don't forget to catch the Brewbound Live at booth 956 during CBC. Let's recap Brewbound Live 2025.

[00:00:42] Jessica Infante: Hello and welcome back to the Brewbound Podcast. I'm Jessica Infante. And I'm Zoe Licata. Zoe, we did it. We're here.

[00:00:50] Chris Cramer: We did it. We survived. We survived. I would argue we didn't just survive, we thrived.

[00:00:59] Jessica Infante: I was just going to say that.

[00:01:01] Brewbound Live: A hundred percent.

[00:01:03] Jessica Infante: If you are just joining us for the pod and you did not join us in Marina Del Rey last week, you missed a great time. We hosted Brewbound Live 2025 and you're probably also noticing a little something else. It's just the two of us. And also, if you were watching on the live stream, I hope you noticed it was just the two of us last week too. That is because we are down a person, but actually up a person, Justin Kendall, our editor and friend, colleague, buddy, and now dad of two is on parental leave. So welcome to the world, little miss Daphne B. Kendall, born on December 10th. Congrats to Justin, Marcy, and now big sis, Sophie. on their new little addition. So we've gotten pictures. She's super cute. I think I've been thinking about this. Sophie and Daphne, elite sibling set. Just really cute names that go together really well. Yeah, very good combo. Very good combo. So Justin obviously did not make the trip to L.A. Timeline got sped up more than he was expecting. So Zoe and I handled it all. And, you know, we missed him, but I think we did an all right job. I think it went great. Yeah, not to keep tooting our own horns, but.

[00:02:21] Chris Cramer: Yeah, thanks to all the lovely comments by folks who attended it to kind of let us leave feeling very good about things. We got a lot of great feedback and folks seem to be super energized and positive this year, both just speakers on stage and people in the room and people at the different parties and events. It was just a really positive mood that I think if we had been doing this, just the two of us last year, when things were a little bit scarier, I don't think we would be as happy or entertaining on this podcast right now.

[00:02:55] Jessica Infante: Well, I think you nailed it in your LinkedIn posts this time last year. Nationally, we were all just in a funk, I think. Yeah. The election maybe freaked a lot of people out, depending on which side of things you were on, because I think some people found it to be just a shock. And that was bringing the vibes down quite a bit. And so wise that you pointed out this time last year is when we really started to realize beers declines can't just be blamed on COVID anymore. Something else is happening.

[00:03:24] Chris Cramer: Right. We had kicked off 2024 with Bart Watson kind of saying, this is where we're at right now. You can't blame these things on COVID anymore. And then we saw that play out throughout the year where it was a really tough summer and folks had to figure out, okay, we can't just wait until things get better. We have to come up with a plan. But by the end of the year, we still didn't quite know what those plans would look like. And it was still quite a time of uncertainty. And you add the politics into the mix and it was just, people were really nervous, stressed out. They didn't know what to do. Now, through another year of being more familiar with the uncertainty and with this new industry we live in, people now felt more energized to say, OK, this is what we're doing. This is what's working. This is what isn't working. Let's chat. How can we collaborate to find other new ways to do things? It was a lot more upbeat. Yeah, for sure.

[00:04:24] Jessica Infante: I think like with the politics of it all, you knew tariffs were coming, but you didn't quite know what that was going to look like. So now that we've got almost a year in, under what that does look like. And I think it's mellowed out. The first couple of months were a roller coaster ride, but things have seemed to level out. And you know what? Huge credit to all the people from hemp brands that were joining us because they very much could be in a pit of despair wondering what W2F is going to happen to them, but that's not how they are. They're all really upbeat, really positive and really determined. So thanks to them for helping keep the vibes high.

[00:04:58] Chris Cramer: Yeah, it very easily could have been a conversation of, we have no idea what's going to happen and we're backtracking. And both from a retailer and supplier perspective, folks were saying, this industry is too big. We're going to figure out how to make this work. Yeah, it was great. It was a good time. I had a great time. I'm still tired, but we made it happen and I'm excited for next year. I feel like most times right after Brewbound Live, I don't want to talk about Brewbound Live ever again. It's always a really fun time, but it is a lot of work. And this time I'm looking forward to Brewbound Live 2026 and to see a lot of folks again, to see we had tons of first timers this year that said they would be back. I would trust most of them. So yeah, it was, it was good.

[00:05:46] Jessica Infante: Yeah. Another thing you called out on LinkedIn is, is how much work it is for us. We're not always upfront about that. We spend half the year on this beast. And you know, when we come up with panel ideas throughout the year, it's, you're always a little nervous. Like, well, is this still relevant in December? And maybe it is, and maybe it's not, but. I think everything panned out. So Brewman Live 2026, December 9th and 10th. You can join us again at the Marriott Marina Del Rey. Hopefully the weather is as stellar next year as it was last week because that was amazing. I know we usually think it will be so nice to be warm in December on this podcast for months. And then the weather gods usually conspire against us. But last week, the literal and figurative sun shone upon us.

[00:06:30] Chris Cramer: Yeah. Yeah, it was beautiful. And there should be a discounted price if you registered now as well. So if you went to 2025 and you know you want to go to 2026, might as well put that in now. Or if you're really jealous by us hyping up how great it was and you want to go for the first time, do that now too. Yeah, take a stand against FOMO.

[00:06:55] Jessica Infante: Zoe, how did you spend your first Brewbound Live weekend?

[00:06:59] Chris Cramer: I did exactly what I shouldn't have done and I hosted our annual Christmas party. I came home on that Friday after Brew Out Live and I said, the last thing I want to do is drink alcoholic beverages and talk to a bunch of people. And then I had to get my house ready to drink alcoholic beverages and talk to a bunch of people. But it was fun. Well, that's fun.

[00:07:20] Jessica Infante: What did you notice?

[00:07:22] Chris Cramer: I'm trying to think of what beverages were brought. There was a lot of Sam Adams winter seasonals, which context, there are folks who work for Sam Adams, so that factors into play here. Same with Dogfish Head Canned Cocktails. Still a lot of high noons. Some bottled Coors Light, which I was not expecting, like the aluminum bottles. How many 50-year-old men did you invite? Zero. The oldest age, I think, was 32. And yeah, Bud Lights make Ulta's usual suspects. Not a lot of new variety this year. Do you have any, like, fun, festive cocktails? We didn't have any pre-made ones, but I did make a couple Cosmos with them. I still had some leftover glitter dust from the Eclipse package that we got from Blue Moon. So I used some of that. And we had drank a couple of Usually I'd make espresso martinis. I did not have the energy for it this year. I cracked open Alesmith. I know. Alesmith sent over their espresso martinis and podcast listeners know I'm a bit of a critic of the RTD espresso martinis. Those things were pretty darn tasty and they did the job. Nice. Nice.

[00:08:41] Jessica Infante: Yeah. When we talked to Brandon from Alesmith a few months ago now about that, He specifically said he wanted to send us something. I was like, you need to send that to Zoe because she's the pro here.

[00:08:52] Chris Cramer: They were delicious. Awesome.

[00:08:55] Jessica Infante: Well, I went to the North Pole. You did go to the North Pole. Much more exciting. The North Pole looks a lot like Boston's North Station. But it was fun. Now we took my daughter Cora on a Santa train ride with some friends who are my friends for a long time, but I know them from beer life. So after the train ride, they wanted to go to Treehouse. So I was back at the Treehouse golf course.

[00:09:21] Chris Cramer: That's becoming like your spot now, you and the Treehouse robots.

[00:09:25] Jessica Infante: Me and the robots, exactly. Look, the pizza is really, really good and the beer is good too, but you know, I don't want to be a, elder millennial cliche, so we might be too late for that. Dude, you know what's this weekend? What? The 20th anniversary of my 21st birthday. What the fuck? When did this happen? Yeah, this is true. It was 20 years ago. I remember this so clearly. We celebrated my 21st birthday before I left college for winter break and then after I got home for winter break. So for some of it, I wasn't, I'm not going to incriminate myself here, but there was one night where several girls in my sorority were all turning 21. So we had a party and then we went to one of the fraternity homes for after hours and I raided their kitchen for like a sleeve of Ritz crackers. And then tumbled down there like concrete stairs on my way home and just woke up with like battered knees because I was wearing like what I thought were very cool ripped jeans because it was 2006, 2005. I can't do math. But yeah, like that's nuts. And I feel like that what we were drinking back then is so different than what the kids who are 21 are drinking now.

[00:10:46] Chris Cramer: I want you to do a comparison of both what you drank then versus what 21-year-olds drink on their birthday now and what you drink now compared to then.

[00:10:57] Jessica Infante: I remember when I got home and we were at a bar with my friends for my real birthday and I ordered a Miller Lite and everybody at the table shamed me. everybody was, including the waitress, was like, no, you're not getting a light beer as your first legal drink. You need a, like a fancy drink. And so I got something that came in a martini glass and it kind of splooshed around and it splashed my cell phone, which cell phones back then used to be extremely temperamental. And it was out of commission for my whole birthday until I could go get a new one. And I'll never know who texted me. 10 years ago, I dragged all my friends out for an ugly sweater bar crawl to celebrate the 10th anniversary of my 21st birthday. And I do remember we, because I was feeling nostalgic, we drank Miller Lights and Jaeger bombs. And you know what I'm not going to drink on Friday? Miller Lights and Jagerbomb? Definitely not. Not even one Miller Light? Maybe a Miller Light, but absolutely not Jagerbomb. My God. You know what I actually have in my fridge that is a perfect stand-in? Market Basket Lager.

[00:12:01] Chris Cramer: Ugh. I still haven't gotten my hands on it. I might go up on them right now. Really good. Lawrence has been begging, begging for us to get them. I am curious about how 21-year-olds whose parents have been in the industry this past 20 years, how their drinking habits are different from just the regular old 21-year-olds. I think that's a great question. We were talking to Rich Pascucci from Black Apple Group about this, because his kids are in their early 20s. He was like, my daughter is much more informed about these things. So she does drink nice liquors and stuff.

[00:12:39] Jessica Infante: I feel like he told us she's the designated old fashioned maker for her friend group.

[00:12:44] Chris Cramer: Yeah. Which is so funny. She's sophisticated. But then he was like, but all her friends are really drinking White Claw at high noon. It's just funny.

[00:12:51] Jessica Infante: I don't know if you got fun. LDA stories of your children. Let us know. We're curious. Right. Maybe we can get somebody on the podcast. I'm into it. Well, what else is going on this week? What panels did you host this week that you're really excited about or last week?

[00:13:08] Chris Cramer: Oh, there are so many. That one with Rich was really fun. We talked about different brands that are connecting with consumers and how investors are responding to some of these emerging brands. So it was Rich along with Gang Wang from Nectar. We also had folks from Seaborne Cocktails and from Best Day Brewing on their All three brands are totally different things. It's a canned cocktail, it's a non-alcoholic beer, and it's a seltzer plus a soju-based punch kind of thing. And they all are doing really fun things beyond just their product. That was a really fun conversation to have and just sharing. the different things they're doing. Like Nectar sponsors DJ sets now and has been able to really connect with consumers that way. Cause apparently the new Gen Z thing to do is, you don't put on like a playlist, you put on YouTube and put on like a boiler room DJ set.

[00:14:08] Jessica Infante: Dude, that was new information to me. And I found that fascinating. Yeah. The only time that, you know, EDM applies in my current life is a spin class. I wonder how much crossover there is there.

[00:14:19] Chris Cramer: I bet you there is a lot, right? I guarantee you there's a SPED class that is done specifically with a DJ set too.

[00:14:27] Jessica Infante: Totally. And I bet there's spin classes on YouTube.

[00:14:29] Chris Cramer: Yeah. I went to a spin class this year that had a live Latin band accompanying the class. Fun! It was the most fun class I've ever been to, including the hype song of the whole class was Gasolina. Oh. And having a live performance of Gasolina while you're spinning was a blast. Speaking of my 21st birthday, that was the song. Yeah, so it was a good time. So that whole conversation was really fun. One of the conversations I had got the most excitement and positive feedback from was our winning at Modern Retail panel that had Columbia and hand-friendly companies on stage along with Dave Williams from Bob Williams Consulting. And Jesse and JR from those two distributors, they were pretty open and honest on stage about what they're looking for from suppliers and how they acknowledge that they make mistakes, suppliers make mistakes. There's been some miscommunications across the board and there needs to be better relationships moving forward. So that was a very cool conversation to host.

[00:15:37] Jessica Infante: I feel like distributor partners, whenever they grace the Brewbound Live stage, they're always super upfront and honest, and they love spilling tea.

[00:15:46] Chris Cramer: So... Yeah. It's become a safe space somehow for them. It's a safe space. Yeah.

[00:15:52] Jessica Infante: I love that we can give them that space to just let it all out. I really enjoyed the last panel I hosted, which featured Rudy Kellner of Freem Family Brewers and Michael Rosa of New Trail, because they think both of them have some lessons to share with other brewers that are really valuable right now. And I feel like this was the panel that I chose to plug in the last episode before Brew Brown Live, but now you're going to hear about it again. They're both able to grow volume at really impressive rates in a fairly tight geographic footprint. I mean, maybe tight is not quite the word for freem because the West Coast states are huge. But neither of them have really ventured out too far from their home bases of Oregon and Pennsylvania. And neither of them have really chased product trends. They're not releasing a different who knows what every six months. They've really been able to work for them, make it work for them. And it was very cool to hear both of them share what they've learned. I also loved, I took the reins from Justin because he couldn't be there, but new Belgium CMO, Rebecca Dye, Janne Schoenest did a great job talking about beers, fun problems in general. That was a presentation that Justin heard when he covered their distributor meeting over the summer. And as soon as he got home, he was like, we need to add Rebecca. And the two of us, I feel like sometimes he'll get on one like that and we're both, okay, let's pump the brakes a little bit here and talk about it. But we were both like, no, done, hired, let's get her.

[00:17:15] Chris Cramer: Yeah. And it was great. She really helped keep the energy up right away on day two, which you never know how day two is going to go. And she killed it. Absolutely killed it. It was amazing. Yeah. And speaking of Nutria, we got to announce them. as an award winner, which was always a fun part of Brewbound Live too.

[00:17:35] Jessica Infante: Yeah. So Nutria was our craft brewer of the year. Yeah. After being a rising star last year, which we were a little late to the game on them. I feel like their meteoric rise started with the 2021 new brewer release. And we don't need to get into it because they don't want to link these things because they're not linked at all. But that time in our lives was a little hectic. So we were a little slow to the game. It's just getting to know them. But what they've been able to do is really impressive. So they're our craft brew of the year. Deschutes was our large brew of the year for a lot of reasons. Deschutes has had just like a banger of a year in terms of their co-brand but white label beer with Costco, like Kirkland Signature Helles, which is so good. if you haven't tried it. They've been growing volume, they're doing really great stuff with their non-alcoholic portfolio, and they are poised for some really interesting Beyond Beer times in 2026. I'm excited. Excited.

[00:18:32] Chris Cramer: Yeah. And we got a bunch more other awards that you could check out, both our Rising Stars, Beyond Beer Company of the Year, New Products, Cause of the Year, Beer Champion, all those fun things. So make sure you check out those at Brewbound.com because we have a lot of really fun award winners on there.

[00:18:49] Jessica Infante: We do, and we have video interviews with all of them so you can learn more about them. And just, you know, check out who we thought really had an impressive 2025. Yeah.

[00:19:00] Zoe Licata: This episode is brought to you by the Craft Brewers Conference, where big ideas, bold beers, and brutally honest shop talk collide. Join thousands of industry pros leveling up their game. Don't miss it. Register now at craftbrewersconference.com.

[00:19:20] Jessica Infante: Well, the news did not stop just because we were attempting to put on a conference. So what did AB decide to do last week?

[00:19:27] Chris Cramer: So we heard that Anheuser-Busch is consolidating some of their production and they closed two of their facilities.

[00:19:38] Jessica Infante: And they're selling one.

[00:19:40] Chris Cramer: And selling one of them.

[00:19:41] Jessica Infante: Yeah. I mean, they've got 12 massive brewery production facilities across the country. So we're going from 12 to nine. They are selling the Anheuser-Busch NORC plant, I believe is their second oldest. And I don't want to get all sappy here because it's in the grand scheme of things, it's silly, not silly. I mean, it's right next to NORC airport. And so when we would fly home from family vacations, my dad would always point it out. They had like this huge, neon eagle Anheuser A sign that you could see from everywhere and the eagle flapped its wings. It was very cool, especially because it was probably a very old thing. So that this technology existed was impressive. So my dad would always point from the plane, like, oh, look, that's how you know we're almost home. And then when we'd be driving home and he would say, you can really smell the beer, which is like, no, dad, like you can smell the turnpike. But it was like such a local icon for people in the area. I grew up two towns over from Newark. it will be missed. And I think a lot of people work there and I know that it really was not operating at full capacity. So this is not a surprise to anybody, but yeah, it's just one of those things.

[00:20:48] Chris Cramer: And we knew AB had been making investments in other facilities to modernize those. And it seemed like this was kind of a plan to move to those newer updated facilities.

[00:20:59] Jessica Infante: Yeah. So NORC's been sold to a developer who's going to, I think, keep it industrial, manufacturing, logistical, not going to be like one of those fancy multi-use residential retail complexes. They are closing Merrimack, New Hampshire, which I think, you know, Norquois to my people, what the Merrimack plant is to Southern New Hampshire. A lot of people work there. It's been in those communities for a super long time. So that will be closing in Sobel Fairfield, California, which is in the Bay Area. They do still have one brewery in LA. So they've got Southern California Adventure. And then, I don't know, it was interesting that the geographic concentration in the Northeast was interesting to me that they're getting rid of Newark and Merrimack, but that's going to leave the focus on Baldwinsville, New York, which is outside of Syracuse. So they've spent a lot of time and money investing and improving that brewery. So I guess that's why they feel comfortable making these moves.

[00:21:51] Chris Cramer: And they shared that all of the full-time employees at all three facilities, so there's 475 employees, they have all been offered roles at other ABE locations, as well as some other benefits and trainings, and anyone who chooses not to relocate has been given separate packages. So that was a positive to see. We don't always see that in cases of locations shutting down.

[00:22:15] Jessica Infante: No, we don't. I'd be interested to see how many people do relocate. I can't imagine that's going to be too popular of a choice. Yeah. But we'll see. So the other news story that we found out about that day is a tough one. The co-founder and co-owner of Charlotte's Sycamore Brewing, Justin Brigham, was arrested on charges of statutory rape of a child, first-degree burglary, and taking liberties with a child, which is a charge that must be in the North Carolina codes. really, really heinous situation, our thoughts and hearts go out to the survivor and her family, because this is going to be a terrible thing to have to overcome. Authorities say they were in conversation for about two weeks on social media, but they were looking into whether or not this was part of a broader pattern of behavior. But the thing that, you know, Zoe and I, we've been following has been the industry reaction to what happened. So co-founder and now sole owner, Sarah Taylor, who is was also Justin's wife. She put out a statement on Thursday, pretty short, but just saying he is completely divested. He will have nothing to do with this company moving forward. I'm just trying to figure out where we go from here as a business owner and a mom and a wife. I thought she reacted pretty quickly. I feel like we've seen a lot of poor behavior come to light and brands don't always react that fast. So I was impressed with the speed, but in the coming days that followed, there was a lot of backlash from the broader North Carolina beer retail community who found either that statement lacking or they were just so disgusted by the actions. So you followed what various retailers have been doing. So what did you see?

[00:24:05] Chris Cramer: Yeah, there's been quite a mix and severity of actions. There have been folks that have put out public videos of them destroying Sycamore products. There have been folks saying, we will not have these on shelves anymore. Axios Charlotte did a roundup kind of right away of several retailers that have pulled products from their shelves, including Publix and Wegmans and a couple other more local retailers. They also reported that Whole Foods is allegedly in the process of removing from shelves A couple other establishments have said, we are going to keep them, but we are going to donate proceeds to different sorts of organizations that help victims of sexual assault, sexual abuse. So they're emphasizing the desire to not kind of punish everybody involved with sycamore for this one man's awful actions. So we'll see how things continue to play out. Sycamore did put out a second statement over the weekend after a lot of these announcements came out. And they acknowledged that the first statement came out really fast and that it was Sarah responding in the same time she was finding out a lot of this information. And she wanted to make sure people knew that he was not going to be involved in this company anymore right away. And so their second statement was much lengthier and really clarified, we do not want Justin involved in the company at all. We are not assisting in his defense at all. They made sure to really spotlight that they want to be there to support the victim in this case and that she is number one priority. And after that, priority is making sure they can still support their employees and the people that rely on this company still for supporting their own families. The brewery still stands. The brewery is continuing to move forward without Justin. We haven't quite necessarily seen responses yet to that second statement. If retailers will bring them back or not, I don't know. It's kind of a tough situation.

[00:26:13] Jessica Infante: It's a tough situation because it's a pretty big, fast-growing brand with lots of people who work there, you know? So it's hard because a lot of people are going to feel the effects of this who had nothing to do with the initial actions that have led to the arrest. So we'll keep an eye on it and see what happens. that was one story that certainly blew up over the last couple of days. So we will be following it for you. All right, let's hit some other news and then we'll get to our featured interview and then we'll call it on this episode of the Brewbound Podcast. But because the news doesn't stop when we're trying to host a conference on our flight home, we received the monthly Cercana report. And so I I did it on the plane. I wrote. I did my notes. I did all the analysis. And I have a very weird system for monthly circana reports that involves a lot of things written out by hand. It works for me. So, you know, I did it. Squeezed onto that tiny airplane. Next to a mom who was traveling solo with a lap toddler. Oh, bless her. Right? Exactly. That's why I was like, whatever I have to do here will not be anything like what she's... And like, they were great. He was super well-behaved, very cute.

[00:27:27] Chris Cramer: They were probably less obnoxious than the two Bills fans I had to sit next to on the flight.

[00:27:31] Jessica Infante: That is absolutely true. Yeah. Yeah. And what we found in Circona is a rare tiny bit of good news. Raft dollar sales were positive last month in convenience stores. And volume was flat. You know, sometimes you'll see dollars up and volume down. Not the case here. So that I think should hopefully be super heartening to anybody who's got sales in the convenience channel. Of course, convenience is not the biggest channel for Kraft. It's only about a third of Kraft's year-to-date dollar sales so far. Grocery is much bigger and grocery declines are bad and getting worse. So that's definitely a hurdle that we'll have to see how it continues to play out in 2026. But if you're selling beer at C-Stores, maybe you had an okay month.

[00:28:20] Chris Cramer: Yeah, and we also should be live as you're listening to this podcast, but the Brewers Association's Year in Beer report came out. And I talked briefly with Matt Gasiak from the BA, who's their staff economist, and he also kind of said, hey, there could be some positive things coming. The end of year numbers might not be super great. We're looking at craft volume is probably going to be down even worse than the 5% volume decline they had mid-year. But all signs point to things turning up into 2026, and not just because there were softer comps now that 2025 was tough and 2024 was tough. There are reports that consumers are wanting to go out more in 2026. They want to socialize more, which generally means they will spend more money on beverage alcohol and things. There are some positive end of year things that we can look forward to.

[00:29:17] Jessica Infante: I think those are the vibes that we need. Yeah. Zoe, on this day in 1773, do you know what happened? No, I feel like I should. You should, and when I tell you, you're going to be like, oh, I know that. But we're going to play a quick historical round of another round of tabbing out. On this day in 1773, the Boston Tea Party happened. Of course. Of course. So my another rounder tabbing out question for you is how much the Boston Tea Party gets referenced in hard tea marketing? Oh, here for it, annoyed by it, sick of it. Just enjoy a Boston reference in general.

[00:29:57] Chris Cramer: Do enjoy a Boston reference. We are in Boston, so we get an extra amount of the regional ones, too, that always call it out. There was also a reference on Real Housewives of Salt Lake City this year. There so was. The Boston Tea Party is hot right now, and it's the country's anniversary next year. So folks are into the history references. I'm here for it. I'm not sick of it yet. I'll buy one more round on it. All right. If we do too much, then I'm going to get a little sick of it. I will say there was a particular beer brand that spent a lot of money marketing around Sunday night football that kept playing Shipping Up to Boston. And I am sick of that one. So maybe stop with the Shipping Up to Boston song or the Wicked references in not just that brand, but many other brands.

[00:30:46] Jessica Infante: Is this a brand that I know? Yes. Very well.

[00:30:48] Chris Cramer: Yes.

[00:30:49] Jessica Infante: Yeah, man. Yeah. If I never heard that song again for the rest of my life, I would be thrilled.

[00:30:53] Chris Cramer: Yeah.

[00:30:54] Jessica Infante: But Boston Tea Party got a little bit more time left, I think. Boston Tea Party's still cool. Dropkick Murphy's borderline. All right. Interesting. Historically appropriate. Another rounder tapping out. We love to see it. All of that said, our featured interview this week is with Chris Cramer, CEO and co-founder of San Diego's very own Karl Strauss Brewing. If you don't know Chris, that's a ridiculous statement because you do know Chris. Chris is just a lovely, lovely human being who is a joy to be around. Such a joy. Such a joy. Even when like shit's bad and things are tough, a conversation with Chris at an industry event will perk you right up.

[00:31:34] Chris Cramer: There were multiple times where he just came up to speakers right after they came off stage at Brewbound Live and just like thanked them for being there and for their insights.

[00:31:42] Jessica Infante: It's like just a very nice human being. He's so nice. I know the Instagram reel that our marketing team just posted recapping the day included, did you, have you watched it yet? There's a, there's like a little like video clip of Chris in there holding up his phone to take a picture of us, like a slide on the print on the big screens. That is Brewbound Live in a nutshell. Chris Cramer will be up front taking notes and laughing. You can always count on Chris for like a really hearty audience laugh. So we are hyping up this intro to this conversation. Neither you nor I were part of it. Justin went to the California Craft Beer Summit in November Circana recorded a bunch of combos. We're almost through them, but this is one of them. And I actually haven't listened to it. So Chris could be doing like a complete 180 and being like a real downer. And I don't know, but if he is, just know that that's not his norm. And another housekeeping note before we get to the interview, we will be off next week. The Brewbound Podcast is taking a couple of days for the holiday. So we are closed on December 24th and 25th. So we figured you would not be listening to Beer Industry Podcast as you celebrate the holidays with family and friends. So we're not going to give you one, but we will miss you and we will be back in your feeds the week after that. I think we're done here, Zoe. Here is Justin's chat with Chris Cramer. Enjoy.

[00:33:01] Justin Kendall: This is Justin Kendall with the Brewbound Podcast, and I'm at the California Craft Brewers Association Summit in Irvine this year. Yes, we are. And those dulcet tones you are hearing, that is Karl Strauss co-founder, Chris Cramer. Thanks for doing this. Thanks for having me. It's good to see you again. Great to see you too. Thank you for being here. Yeah. So I think I want to ask you just broadly, how are things going here in California?

[00:33:27] Karl Strauss: Well, you know, I think everyone talks about all of the challenges, but what they don't talk about and what was focused on in this morning's, you know, first presentation here at the Craft Beer Summit was the opportunities that there are for craft brewers and how, in general, our industry seems to be outperforming the rest of beverage alcohol. which is not part of the current narrative. And so I think that for each of us as craft brewers here in this state, you know, our greatest opportunity is looking into ourselves and seeing what we can authentically own as a brand and communicating that to our, you know, our consumers and, you know, our fans, and then helping them share that joy with others. So for Karl Strauss, what is that? Well, for us, you know, it's a multi-tenanted, you know, focus on first of all, the fact that, hey, we're the first, you know, we boldly went where no one had gone before. And we were brave enough to open the very first, you know, craft brewery in San Diego and start San Diego's craft beer revolution. And we have been plowing forward for 36 years now. innovating and changing and developing tastes and bringing consumers who had never had a craft beer before we entered the market, you know, into the fold. And, you know, you look how far we've come that, you know, craft beer not only has become such an established part of the Southern California Adventure, but it is also something that is such a great contributor to our society in terms of jobs, tax increment, everything like that. So we're very proud of our position, our moving this industry into San Diego, and then also looking at our legacy of quality. And what can we do to double down on all of those things that have made us successful over the last 36 years, and really truly resonate in authentic ways with our consumers.

[00:35:22] Justin Kendall: So, how many spaces do you have now?

[00:35:24] Karl Strauss: Well, we have our main distributing brewery in Pacific Beach, and that, you know, continues to grow in volume. We also have our Karl Strauss Distributing Company, where we distribute our beers and other products and partner beers throughout Southern California. And then we also have the nine brew pubs in Southern California, and we are the featured craft beer of the Disney Resort in Anaheim. That's pretty cool. Is that new? No, actually we've been doing that for 25, 26 years now. It's been a long run. We were called by Disney before they built California Adventure and they said they wanted to feature our brewery as part of the immigrant story and as part of the the California Craft beer story. And so, you know, I actually got to see the whole park from storyboarding to shoveling the ground through building. And, you know, my, my family has grown up with Disney and we're so proud to have our, our Karl Strauss beer proudly featured there in the California Adventure with our Karl Strauss service area. You'll have to go check it out if you haven't. I will.

[00:36:28] Justin Kendall: I've got a three-year-old who loves Donald Duck and Mickey for that matter. So we've got to get over there. But do you get some free passes with that?

[00:36:40] Karl Strauss: I see where you're going. Quick answer is no.

[00:36:46] Justin Kendall: So in those nine brew pubs, what are the trends you're seeing right now? What are you hearing from consumers on what they want, what's working, what isn't, you know, what needs adjusting?

[00:36:56] Karl Strauss: Well, you know, this is an important thing. You look at the restaurant industry and, you know, in California in general, and traffic has been a huge challenge with the increase in costs. There's been so many societal changes with GLP-1s, you know, affecting the way people eat. And so right now, you know, you see, you know, these traffic declines, sales declines in restaurants. We're actually up. in our brew pubs this year. Congratulations. You know, same store sales are up. The division is up. And, you know, what we attribute that to is focusing in on our guests, focusing on the quality of our beers. We just, you know, for 36 years, every day better has been our motto. And so we're always trying to make our beers that much better to, you know, the extent we can. and it pays off because guests recognize and they will pay for higher quality. Plus, you know, we have doubled down on our service, on the quality and variety of our food offerings, the engagement between food and beer pairings, which is something that we think we're best in class at at Karl Strauss. And whenever you come into a Karl Strauss brew pub, you know, you're going to have the opportunity not only to have delicious food and delicious beer, but you're going to have these amazing pairings

[00:38:10] Justin Kendall: hearings that elevate your appreciation for both. I think it's like 45% of consumers are willing to pay more for a better quality drink, a better quality experience. And I mean, I see that just with folks that we work with.

[00:38:37] Karl Strauss: It's so true. And what we're seeing is significant sales gains because of it. And so we look at our beers like our Boat Shoes, Hazy IPA, and our Tower X West Coast IPA, which just keep growing and growing in sales. And the consumers are just finding that the quality and the way that we do it in our unapologetically approachable style. So that's the other thing, is you have to know what you can own in this industry. And Karl Strauss has never tried to make beers that just rip your mouth apart. You know, Uncle Karl was always about this symphony of flavors and making absolutely delicious drinkable beers that you begin to crave and you want to drink more. Because guess what? When you drink a second beer, you sell a second beer. And so we've focused on that and we have really niched that beautifully in our in our company and we continue to double down on that we're going with you know expanded and also re-emphasize seasonal program in our brew pubs and also in our distributed beer offerings a lot of people are going to be super happy to hear that the beer that started it all in San Diego on February 2nd, 1989, is coming back as a seasonal beer. Our OG, Karl Strauss Amber, is coming back. And, you know, for many people, that was the very first craft beer they ever tasted in their lives, and there's this sense of reverence and nostalgia for it. And, you know, those styles of beers had, you know, dropped in popularity for a while, but they have a place in this world, and they're so delicious. And people always ask me, what's my desert island beer? And if there was one beer that I would take to a desert island and the only beer I could ever drink for the rest of my life, it would probably be the Karl Strauss O.G. Amber because it's such a delicious drinkable beer and it pairs with so many different styles of food. and occasions like grilled salmon. It's the best pairing with grilled salmon I've ever had, and that's across all beverages. You know, you could take a $200 bottle of Chasson Montrachet and put it on the table, and I'll put Karl Strauss OG Amber, and you try it with the grilled salmon, and I bet you'll prefer having Karl Strauss with it. I bet I would.

[00:40:59] Justin Kendall: So what's it coming back in? What formats and how long?

[00:41:02] Karl Strauss: It's going to be in draft and it's going to be, you know, a one quarterly seasonal for us starting in 2026. And it'll be in cans available for distribution as well as in kegs for distribution and featured prominently in our group ups.

[00:41:17] Justin Kendall: Full footprint? Like statewide distribution? Yeah, I believe so. Yeah. Arizona and Nevada as well, or? Yeah, it's going to be everywhere. I want to ask you, too, about the distribution business.

[00:41:28] Karl Strauss: Sure.

[00:41:28] Justin Kendall: We've seen such a shakeup in California, you know, consolidation. It doesn't stop in this state. No, it doesn't. I mean, it started probably before Reyes, but Reyes was really at the tip of the spear here. And now you've got Sunset Company and taking Stone Distributing, Scout and Classic Beverage. I know that there are a lot of people wondering what's sort of the state of the marketplace here? What, you know, what's the go to market strategy for California brewers? So I want to hear from you, you know, Carl, like, how are you approaching this market?

[00:42:01] Karl Strauss: Well, you know, we have been blessed in that, you know, we started distributing, self-distributing in 1989. People forget that, you know, we actually had one hotel down the street and we would take them cakes. And two years later, when we built the very first production and distributing brewery in San Diego, as part of the growth of the craft beer industry, we started our self-distribution further, where we had one van, one delivery driver, one salesperson, me, and we sold one product, our OG Karl Strauss amber, in full-size kegs. And we've been growing it ever since then. Back in 2017, because we'd grown to a scale, we started taking partner beers and beverages into our house and distributing them along with our Karl Strauss products, and that's been very successful. And with the recent churn, you know, in the industry, there have become fewer and fewer paths for people to be able to get to market. especially in a key, you know, area like we cover in the San Diego, Southern California Adventure. And so we've actually benefited from this. We have had great new partners like Beer Girl and Brewery X, you know, come join the Karl Strauss Distributing, you know, company. And, you know, we're distributing their products as well now. And we've seen tremendous growth in our distribution business. In fact, you know, it's enabled us to take back our off-premise distribution and really focus again on the things that we can control that can make us successful. And that's really the message for, you know, all craft breweries these days is Don't go crazy. Don't get distracted by chasing things that are not authentically, you know, part of your DNA. You have to focus on those things that people are going to believe in and trust you and they're going to buy, you know, from you. And so that's really what we're focusing on across all of our operations, plus focusing in on honing, you know, quality and honing costs. So, you know, we've made a huge investment in, you know, replacing our brew house in the last year and, you know, put in a new fully automated brew house. And, you know, with all of the investments that we've made in the brewery, we've actually managed to actually decrease our standard costs in the brewing side of our operation by 15 percent. Yeah, and that's enormous. So those those are the sorts of things that doesn't matter what the world is doing right now. You can control those things. And that's where we're focused.

[00:44:35] Justin Kendall: Well, you've been a master at sort of hitting the market and getting things for pennies on the dollar. Is this a brand new system or did you get this?

[00:44:42] Karl Strauss: It was a slightly used. Slightly used. A slightly used system that you know had been brewed on actually really a handful of times and they decided they were in the wrong business and we had an opportunity to get an incredible deal and then bring it out from Tennessee to California Craft put it in our brewery and now we're decommissioned our old brew house and We're about ready to take those, you know, pieces of equipment out, which will free up space in our Pacific Beach Brewery to be able to put different size fermenters in so that it gives us even more opportunity to do sort of these smaller batch runs.

[00:45:22] Justin Kendall: Well, and speaking of controlling your controllables, you purchased your original brewpub in 2023. Yes. What have you learned from bringing that on now that you've, we're what, two years into that purchase?

[00:45:36] Karl Strauss: Well, so we, you know, we purchased it in the fall, you know, going into the winter of 2023. And then in 2024, what we did was we came up with the plan for a remodel and we closed it in November of 2024, the day after Thanksgiving. And we went through an extensive remodel, and we took the opportunity to refresh Karl Strauss downtown San Diego for what it is. It's the birthplace of San Diego's craft beer revolution. And, you know, we like to say we started this party, and we did. And so this is the place where, you know, we wanted people to be able to come and touch history and, you know, polish this jewel, you know, for what it really should be. And people have responded enthusiastically. You know, since we reopened, we're up over 10 percent, you know, and same store sales in excess of 10 percent, you know, from one year to the next. That sort of growth is very hard to achieve. in the restaurant or brew pub industry. So we're very proud and the trends are growing. Plus, downtown San Diego is revitalizing, coming back after the pandemic. And so we're really super happy that we made the decision and the results are proving that it was a good decision.

[00:46:53] Justin Kendall: Well, congratulations and always good to catch up with you.

[00:46:56] Karl Strauss: Always great to see you too. Thank you so much for being here at the California Craft Brewers Association Summit. Appreciate that. Our pleasure. So thanks for doing this. Cheers. Cheers.

[00:47:07] Jessica Infante: And that's our show for this week. Thank you for listening. The Brewbound Podcast is a production of BevNET CPG. Our audio engineer for the Brewbound Podcast is Joe Cracci. Our technical director is Joshua Pratt and our video editor is Ryan Galang. Our social marketing manager is Amanda Smerlinski. Our designer is Amanda Huang. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with your colleagues and friends and review us on your listening platform of choice. You can find our work at Brewbound.com. And we also welcome feedback and suggestions at podcast at Brewbound.com. On behalf of the entire Brewbound Podcast team, thank you for listening. We'll be back next week.