[00:00:00] Jessica Infante: It's one of our favorite episodes of the year. It's the annual Brewbound Beer Journalists Roundtable. Hello, and welcome back to the Brewbound podcast. It is our first episode of 2026, which feels weird to say, but I am Brewbound Managing Editor, Jessica Infante, and I am joined with several of my favorite people, but one of them for sure is Brewbound Senior Reporter, Zoe Licata. Zoe, how you doing? Hello.
[00:00:37] Zoe Licata: Glad to be back for 2026. I don't know if I believe you. I didn't sound really convincing there. No. I'm glad to be on the podcast and I'm glad to be doing this episode because this is one of our most fun episodes of the year. And we have two very special guests on it.
[00:00:56] Jessica Infante: Yes. Joining us to recap the biggest stories of beer and Bev Alk of 2025 and what they might mean for 2026 are Beer Marketers Insights Vice President and Executive Editor, David Steinman. David, how are you? I'm good. I'm just happy to be joining. Well, we're thrilled that you're here. How was the end of your 2025?
[00:01:17] David Steinman: It was warmer than it is now. I was in Miami with my fiance and I don't love Miami, but I love the weather right now. I would say that. Perfect way to put that.
[00:01:30] Jessica Infante: And from a much colder climb, we have Feel Good Insights lead analyst, Kate Bernot. Kate, how are you?
[00:01:38] Kate Bernot: I am a little under the weather. three quarters of the world, seemingly. Every single person I know is sick, has been sick, is on their way to getting sick. So apologies for that, but very thrilled to be here in such esteemed company.
[00:01:56] Jessica Infante: Well, it is always a delight to get people together who do the same weird thing that we do. Whenever my husband explains my job to other people, he's like, she's one of like, I don't know, 10 people in the country who do this. And I was like, maybe a little more, but I think all of them are all fine humans, so.
[00:02:14] David Steinman: You think there are 10? I didn't realize we got to 10.
[00:02:19] Jessica Infante: Maybe not. You know, he usually maybe he says five. I don't know. But yeah, there's not that many of us. So it's really nice to have people who understand the little oddities of your your day to day life. So 2025 is full of oddities. You know, this year brought us middle tier consolidation, major craft brewery closures, a super unsure future for intoxicating hemp, which to some people may feel like it came out of nowhere and might be vanishing with the same immediacy. It's hard to know which of those topics had the biggest impact for brewers and brands. So we're going to kind of talk them all out. Does one of you have something you want to present to the group first for discussion? Pressure's on. Ooh.
[00:03:02] David Steinman: You know, the biggest topic when I was looking back at all of our coverage of last year was category health. And, you know, we're looking at decline after decline after decline. It's something like 30 million barrels down from our recent peak. But some of that was inflated from the pandemic gains. And it felt like it was going to normalize at least multiple times over. And it just keeps on declining at this rate that it's hard to really put a finger on exactly one thing, but it's easy to kind of look at a broad brush of impacts on the trends. And it's just a tougher business now than it really ever has been for a consistent stretch.
[00:03:55] Zoe Licata: Yeah.
[00:03:56] Jessica Infante: Super glad you led with this, because that's the undercurrent of a lot of things. But it's hard to know what to do. Kate, I feel like you and I talk about this a lot. And you always point out, maybe we haven't really had this conversation lately, but you always bring up, people have been drinking alcohol for millennia and it's not going away. But maybe what that looks like is different. How do you approach that? What do you make of this?
[00:04:19] Kate Bernot: I think that's certainly true. I think that basic premise undergirds kind of all of our collective reporting, right? Like, I don't think we can sound the death knell for alcohol, but certainly people are drinking differently and making really different choices about that. And I think the story that maybe went kind of under discussed for me last year was sort of the broader macroeconomic factors going on in the US and the pressure on the average consumer and how that fits into the choices people are making. we hear so much about health, we hear so much about cannabis, THC, etc., you know, competing categories. I felt like I just didn't hear enough about how pressured the average U.S. consumer feels. We've known for a long time that well-off Americans are carrying a lot of water for the U.S. economy, but they can't do it forever, and especially not in sort of general CPG. I mean, rich people only go out, you can only go out to a restaurant so many times, you only need so many cases of beer if you're a wealthy family, this category and alcohol broadly relies on average Americans to be comfortable spending. And I think just as we see Federal Reserve data that like the top 10% of earners in the U.S. now, so that's households making more than $250,000 annually, make up almost half the total consumer spending in the U.S. and that's like wildly up from the early 90s, it's the highest level ever on record. Average Americans are having a really hard time paying bills, and I think it's really hard to ask them to spend on alcohol given that macroeconomic climate. That's something I'm continuing to watch as we go into 2026. What do consumers who can barely afford basic groceries and necessities, how are they thinking about alcohol right now?
[00:06:05] Zoe Licata: What I think we're going to see a lot in 2026 and a bit of in 2025 is a lot of beverage alcohol companies are trying to figure out how they can market themselves to a consumer that is looking for a lot of things that aren't necessarily totally in line with what alcohol is providing. So consumers are looking for a lot of health and wellness stuff. And so alcohol in itself isn't necessarily aligned with that. But how do you promote other things? Like are you a lower ABV? Are you lower calories? and all these other factors. So I think beverage alcohol is finding its way to, okay, if consumers' wallets are strained, how do you still promote yourself as something that they should be spending their dollars on? It's not an easy question to answer, and I think folks are trying to still figure that out.
[00:06:50] Jessica Infante: Earlier this year, we were in Las Vegas for the National Beer Wholesalers Association Annual Convention. And Nick Mody, who's one of the Wall Street analysts that covers beer, but also other beverages and I think like personal care products. Nick talked about how, yeah, premiumization is a thing, but it can't go on forever. And people who don't have a lot of money wanna buy beer too. So you should have something in your portfolio for them, kind of goes against what we saw. God, what was that, 2022 when Molson Coors cut a bunch of economy brands? Yeah. So it makes sense. Premiumization sounds nice, but we can't all afford a $25 four-pack.
[00:07:31] David Steinman: Yeah, you know, it's particularly interesting to see a company like Constellation, which we saw decline for the first time in a decade plus. I think 2009 was the last time it was down. But all of a sudden, they're lowering the price of Modelo Oro and Corona Premier to this Michelob Ultra level. And, you know, that's still above premium. They're definitely thinking about price in a different way now. Of course, all the big brewers have a wide range of products, even Molson Coors still. And then Constellation's testing this Barrelito brand that's at the bud pricing level. Everyone is starting to think a little more price conscious. And heading into 2026, I think that's going to be a major theme that carries over. And how much we see beer pricing realization at the same rates that we've been able to achieve in past years feels more challenging than years past.
[00:08:34] Zoe Licata: Yeah, something that stuck out to me from this past year was when Jim Cook brought up pricing for Twisted Tea and saying we were a little too heavy handed there. We really outpriced our product for our consumer and have had to pull back because there was kind of a disconnection between that core consumer and what they were looking for and what they were willing to spend.
[00:08:57] Kate Bernot: It's easy to say that now is such a boom time for value brands, for white label and store brands as we're seeing in other CPG. But I think there is still room for those premium brands if they are able to define their value add, which a lot of them have not really had to perhaps do as much when times were easier. But I think a real stalwart beer brand like Guinness being up so strongly in 2025 is a good example of when a beer brand that is above premium can can define its value add to consumers. There's still a lot of runway for that. It's about sociability. It's about leaning into its kind of uniqueness. There's nothing else like it. And when brands can do that authentically they there's still room for them to win.
[00:09:41] Jessica Infante: That's a great point, Kate. Plus, I mean, there's really nothing like a fresh poured pint of Guinness. They really, it trades on experiences and in-person connection. And Zoe and I feel like, how many pints have we attempted to split this past year? Too many.
[00:09:57] Zoe Licata: This year? Together, I don't know, maybe like six or seven.
[00:10:03] Jessica Infante: That's a lot.
[00:10:04] Zoe Licata: That is a decent amount. Throughout this whole year, I am too scared to even think about how many. But I think that brings up another really core kind of tenet of this past year was the strength of the on-premise still and how that was able to provide a lot of opportunities for some brands. And I think there was a lot of realization this year of, hey, we've been focused a ton on the off-premise and maybe we need to bring some more attention back to the on-premise. And you saw the brands that did, like Guinness who really focused on that experience you can only have in bars and restaurants, that sociable nature of things that consumers are looking for. When they prioritize those things, they were rewarded for it. And so I think we're going to continue to see that into this next year too, of brands feeling like, all right, one of our big advantages as a beer brand is being able to have a pint. And so how can we really better market that and connect with consumers looking for that social experience with the companion of a beer?
[00:11:03] David Steinman: Now, Guinness is an anomaly in some ways, but it is indicative of what we've been able to see in certain regional craft brands and just being very draft-centric as a core tenant. as they build to a certain point. Then there's this pent-up demand almost for the brand that you see, Fiddlehead, Georgetown, Allagash, obviously, just getting to another tier of growth. I think Guinness is that times 10, but it's remarkable to see the strength of those kinds of brands at a time like this.
[00:11:43] Kate Bernot: Yeah really well said David. And I think what's important about Guinness and all those examples you brought up is that the on premise is such a long term investment. Doesn't some of you just realize and then you would just next year's planning for right. This is an ongoing commitment to service and unique presentation and to sort of, frankly, demands of your on-premise partners, which I think a lot of brands are scared of right now. They don't want to ask for anything of people. They just want the placement. But, you know, Guinness had decades of sort of demands of their partners, and when that pays off, it pays off really big. Algash, similarly, very invested in the presentation on-premise. And, yeah, it pays off, but it's such a long-term strategy, such a long-term play.
[00:12:30] Jessica Infante: It's such a great point. Something that really paints every year that we've had, at least since I've been at Brewbam, which is about six years now, but this past year it really felt as though it was happening at a different level, is consolidation among the middle tier. There were several huge stories that came out of this that all of course touch on other things. But the first thing that comes to mind for me at least was the acquisition of Stone Distributing and Classic Beverage by Sunset, which was a newly formed subsidiary of Hand Family Companies, but that's a huge shift. The Southern California market, particularly for craft beer, is very much... I don't even think microcosm is the right word, but it's more like what happens in Southern California for craft beer will eventually happen everywhere else too. So that was a major story for a lot of those brands. David, you guys have such a great connection to the middle tier and you're always the first to report on anything that really happens. So what has that story meant as the months have passed since it took place?
[00:13:32] David Steinman: Well, so much has happened in Southern California and California at large since that jump by hand family companies. But I mean, it's incredible to see the way that J.R. and company were willing to lever up and really take this leap and this bet on Southern California being a market that they can grow in and assuming that they're looking to add to that pocket in California to make that business even more viable. You look at the branch, the AB branch as a potential target. Hand Family, of course, is one of AB's largest distributor partners in the Midwest and Illinois, Tennessee. And then you look at the way that the independent Anheuser-Busch system has been actually disadvantaged in some ways in picking up new brands, in part because of the existence of the branch in Southern California. JR is positioning himself as sort of a solution to that for the AB network. And so you see brands like Patco, Good Boy Vodka, and Liquid Death, I believe, is now all in the AB. And so there's potentially more opportunity to pick up brands over time. And then it's also just how big is JR and company looking to get. The flip side of that, of course, is California saw the most amazing story in distribution alcohol beverage writ large was RNDC, you know, pulling out of the state. And so that led to this whole waterfall of brands coming out before they left the state and after they've left the state. And so there's just all this change in total out Bev. Everyone has to be thinking total out Bev. in a different kind of way now. Reyes is a top 10 spirits distributor nationally just by all the brands that it picked up in California, plus everything else that it's got. And now it's distributing wine too through Gallo. And a lot of that all just happened within last year.
[00:16:00] Jessica Infante: Absolutely. One of the biggest things that I think has happened in this industry in, I don't know, I'd put it in the top 10 of the past decade. Is that crazy? I mean, pulling out of the largest state is, yeah. Kate, what do you make about all of that?
[00:16:16] Kate Bernot: That news was so shocking, perhaps, but it really does echo the great convergence of every other tier, right? We're seeing product lines converge at the same time we're seeing distribution converge and route to market become really different for Many products I mean some of the most successful products in beverage alcohol today buzz balls beatbox etc all came to market and sort of non traditional packages and and placements I mean. Beatbox being in Tetra Pak and caps on a warm shelf. Like what a strange, you know, playbook. And I think that's the lesson of all of this is to see white space, not just in product formulation or attributes, but to see white space in physical retail, to see white space on a floor, to see white space on distributors' trucks. tailor a product, not just to what the end consumer wants, but what every step of that supply chain is looking for. And I think that's kind of the requirement to win with new products these days as everything is so competitive.
[00:17:28] Jessica Infante: I'm glad you brought up Beatbox because that's kind of where I want to go next. I think if you have missed the past couple of years because you were under some sort of rock or you just hate fun, maybe you are unaware of the existence of Beatbox. Quick recap, Brands started over a decade ago by three co-founders out of Austin. They started out in being a giant bag-in-box format. I want to say three leaders. rejiggered to being in smaller tetrapaks, which was itself kind of groundbreaking. Went on Shark Tank, brought on Mark Cuban. A month ago announced that they were being sold to Anheuser-Busch for $490 million. And what I think this kind of does is it points to AB's greater Beyond Beer ambitions, I think. You know, there's not really anything... Now there's a lot of copycats, but there wasn't really anything totally like beatbox, wine-based party punch, but they also have malt and spirits-based extensions, was the number two growth brand in wine in 2025, according to the most recent Bumble Heems report that I wrote about this morning, and my brain totally pushed out the door. It'll be interesting to see what AB does with it, because AB had a fast mover in hard seltzer with spiked, and for better or for worse, that got spiked. So where does this go? What do you see in your crystal ball for the crew at beatbox?
[00:18:48] Zoe Licata: I wish I had a crystal ball. That would make our jobs a lot easier. I'm curious to hear David Gates' perspectives on these two because I don't know. I feel very conflicted about it. I think beatbox has been on such a huge trajectory for such a long time that naturally at some point that is going to have to come to an end and what will cause that, I'm not sure. AB naturally being the largest brewer, it has a lot on its plate and I'm curious to see how Beatbox falls within its list of priorities and all its various other beyond beer things. So there are a lot of things that they need to figure out and I'm just going to have to wait and see. But I'm curious, David, if you want to start and then I want to hear from you too, Kate. What you see as the next chapter for Beatbox now that it's going to be an AB product?
[00:19:43] David Steinman: Yeah, I mean, you never want to like predict, but I think you just got to look at AB's track record on some of these acquisitions. And yeah, I mean, you mentioned Spike, Jess, and that's the downside, but the upside is Cutwater. The upside is Neutral. That's an acquisition, too, that they got in Canada and they brought down to the US. And now that's a big brand. And you even got to look back, I think, to their track record in Kraft. which is by far the best of the strategic acquirers in the craft space, you know, say what you will, but Goose Islands, way bigger than it ever was, Elysian, Golden Road, Wicked Weed, all down the line, they have a track record of growth. with brands that they get at certain stages. Beatbox, it's hard to say exactly what stage they're in because they've been kicking ass for a while now. We were talking about the branch. Beatbox is actually one of the few brands in the Southern California branch. AB is very familiar with that brand down in SoCal and New York and other markets, obviously, too. So they obviously believe, if they're going to spend this money, that they can grow it pretty substantially from here. But it's a competitive space. You've got more companies coming after it in that Tetra Pak. It'll be interesting to see how quickly, you know, what was it, the Arizona tequila in the Tetra Pak in Mexico, see if that comes into the U.S. at some point and just how many more companies look to attack. But Beatbox has a clear leadership position, is a big brand, and AB has more muscle than anybody to get it to a bigger space than it is today.
[00:21:46] Jessica Infante: I'm glad you took the optimist approach on this because clearly I was a bit of a pessimist. There's two sides to every coin, right?
[00:21:54] Kate Bernot: Yeah, I think I would also take the optimist card here. I think AB is just in such a position of strength in beer with Mickel of Ultra, in spirits with Cutwater, in wine-based stuff with Buzzballs now. They're coming to partners with this whole portfolio of growth brands. And what else I think is unique about Beatbox is that it's It's a brand almost more than it's a product. It's so flexible. You've seen it work across three different base formulations. It works across, I think, 500,000 flavors, apparently. You can make it whatever you want it to taste like, made of whatever you want it to taste like, which gives it enormous flexibility in retail. And I think it still has yet to fully crack on premise as much as it could. I think it plays really well with like events and music and that kind of thing has always been really core. But I think, you know, with AB's inroads to giant venues and stuff, I think there's still runway there. So I take, yeah, I also feel optimistic about this one for for AB and VBucks.
[00:23:02] Jessica Infante: Awesome. I think it really kind of shows that AB is getting super serious about beyond beer. Like David, you brought up caught water and neutral. I really like neutral. I had it for the first time at your Chicago conference in like what, 22 maybe? Right. It's interesting to me that the one area that they haven't really cracked in terms of like what's working in RTDs is hard tea. I know there've been attempts. But to me that's like a nut they haven't really opened yet. Like I would never want to say they've given up. Unless there's something I'm not thinking of. Is there like an A, B, hard T that I'm just totally memory holing?
[00:23:37] David Steinman: They have hoop T. Well, yeah. And that's growing. That's another small investment acquisition. So that's another one that I wouldn't say that's a huge success, but it's definitely something that they've been able to grow and seed to this point. They tested skimmers. Now there's this big lawsuit with Surfside on trade dress. And I think regardless of whether that lawsuit came about or not, the skimmer's brand had a questionable future to begin with from everything that we've heard and seen. So yeah, hard tea is definitely still a gap. for them relative, but it's a gap for almost everybody. So I think when Boston Beer has just owned that space for so long until we saw the emergence of Surfside to this wild level and some others underneath, but it's still mostly just Boston Beer and Surfside.
[00:24:45] Jessica Infante: A little bit of Arizona. I mean, Twisted Tea is not spirit space. I think that's what, like AB, I guess Hoobtea is a malt base and they've had that forever.
[00:24:55] Zoe Licata: Yeah. I feel like we heard so much less from a lot of tea brands in 2025 because it was just the conversation was so dominated by Suncruiser, Surfside. 2024 seemed to have so much talk about all these, especially a lot of like smaller independent tea brands and they kind of just got spoken over or whatever in 2025?
[00:25:23] David Steinman: Yeah, there's some that are still growing, but I think there are more that have kind of hit that hard seltzer, you know, that mark where it gets flooded a little bit and it's hard to sustain beyond those top players. And so I think even Arizona Hard, it was down last year, and you can kind of go down the list with like the Voodoo Ranger, Hard Charged, and so on. But there's still some growth brands in that mix too. It's just they're getting overshadowed for sure. For sure.
[00:25:59] Jessica Infante: One thing I feel like it seemed as though maybe we were going to have a broader conversation about it last year, And it never really materialized was the hard refresher concept, which reporting on this bump Williams report this morning is really what made me think of that thought that because two of the growth brands in their innovation brands in the beer category, which was, you know, anything new that is, you know, approached about a million dollars in off premise sales last year, one of them was AB's Beats Senses, which I had never heard of. That was the second biggest innovation brand in the category, which is a malt-based hard refresher AB has out on the West Coast in a little baby can, 7.5 ounces, but no carbonation there. And they're also trying something similar, no carbonation, hard refresher called Shaken. And that's something that AB's got 12 ounce cans, but in like the Midwest and Great Lakes. So I just feel like we were all kind of looking at stuff. Zoe, you've reported on Harbor Freshers a lot. What is there? There's Happy Thursday.
[00:27:04] Zoe Licata: Zoe Saldana, Ph.D.: Yeah. There's Happy Thursday. There's a couple like really teeny tiny ones. It's one of those weird things where... I think the title of my coverage of it was, I know a hard refresher when I see one. Like it doesn't really have a super distinct definition of what it is. And so that becomes a challenge when you're trying to market a product to a consumer or try to create a segment that doesn't necessarily exist. I think it comes back to like the beyond beer space in general is just so hard to figure out what will actually stick or not. And there have been things that we always kind of compared them to hard seltzer of like, all right, is it going to be a quick growth and then a hard turn? It's just so hard to actually predict what's going to happen there. And with the nature of what consumers are looking for, just looking for so many different things and so much variety that
[00:28:03] Jessica Infante: It could change any day. Kate, I feel like you are always super knowledgeable about all of the intricacies of all of the strange little like what's in, what's out and what's coming next. What are you noticing about hard refreshers and how are they different from stuff like hard nectar? Like, do you think these are the same product?
[00:28:22] Kate Bernot: I think hard refreshers have morphed into whatever this hard sports drink wave is. I feel like they're one and the same. So we have New Belgium's Light Strike, stateside brands just announced their Super Light, which they are calling Uh, Vodka plus aid. Yeah, no copyright issues there when you just use and it's it's this idea that there's something hydrating some possible. We can't say electrolytes, but. Something somewhat hydrating and beneficial while you're drinking this alcohol, which I think was kind of the premise of hard refreshers, possibly plus the no carbonation thing. So, to me, this is the evolution of that. And I'm really curious to see. what kind of happens with this sports drink and alcohol crossover, because it feels like something consumers have been genuinely drinking and kind of creating on their own, and here is a packaged format. So I'm curious just how much room there really is for that. I mean, I think it'll be some segment of Beyond Beer, but I mean, how big does that really get? On the other hand, we all want that little value add, we all want that little tiny bit of functionality, even if we're drinking alcohol. So if I'm drinking something and it's maybe not quite as bad for me, or I perceive that there's this little boost that's going to make me feel not so bad the next day, then maybe there's runway there.
[00:29:56] David Steinman: Absolutely agree. That's a relatively new space that feels like it's getting some energy behind one other brand that I got to talk to the founder, Jason Cohen of Spiked Aid. They were at NBWA exhibitor floor. They've got, you know, Jason is this serial entrepreneur in the food and beverage space. And he's got a whole distribution network already sort of lined up for several states and a whole production allotted to make this push. So, you know, like, as that's coming to market, I think there's real energy behind that. And I think that stateside sees that, too, in the same way that kind of Boston Beer and Surfside raced to this vodka tea national footprint. I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up being similar in the spiked aid or the hard, you know, I don't know how to put it. Yeah, thank you. That's what I think we're just gonna have to say for now. Copyrights excluded, I guess, but it's an interesting space for sure.
[00:31:19] Jessica Infante: Zoe and I are on record as being in favor of the hard sports drinks after being very much doubters, but a visit to the spike aid booth at the NBWA show definitely proved us wrong. So definitely something to be watching. Another huge story that really picked up steam towards the end of 2025 was what the honk is going to happen to intoxicating hemp. And it's something that blew up and then all of a sudden Congress put a very hard deadline on and we'll see what happens. So you've done a lot more of our coverage of that part of the world than I have. What would you say the general vibes are right now in the segment?
[00:32:03] Zoe Licata: It seems like contrary to having this deadline now, everyone is still very much, everyone being mostly suppliers and a good handful of retailers, I think too, are very much still into it and are saying that this is something that is already too big to put back in the box. And so they're being very, very vocal to try to get either a, you know, push this deadline down the road a little bit or figure out some sort of regulatory system to satisfy some folks to be able to make this still exist. Who knows in today's political environment what will actually happen there. But a lot of my conversations with folks have been This has been in our plan and we're going to continue to do this and we will put some safety things in place in case maybe we have to go into dispensaries or something, but that's kind of the worst case scenario for them. David, are you hearing similar things? What seems to be your sense on the temperament of things?
[00:33:02] David Steinman: I think it's kind of jumbled right now in the way that anything is coming in about the future because nobody actually knows if anything will get amended or if it's just kind of how it's going to go by this time next year is still really hard to see. we've seen multiple craft brewers that are like legacy established craft brewers announce or just like regional size craft brewers announce new products as that bill passed or even after. So, you know, they put in the research, they put in the money to do this kind of a product and Some other brewers have clearly been successful in how they've been able to go to market to this point. So I feel like they made the bet already. The ones that were already doing the investments over the last year and change are going to keep putting their pedal to the metal until someone tells them not to. But it's hard to say. It really is.
[00:34:11] Zoe Licata: I certainly didn't think that we would be talking about hemp as much as we did this year. Kate, did you think this was going to be as big of a topic as it ended up being?
[00:34:23] Kate Bernot: I don't think I foresaw hemp beverages being caught in the crosshairs of the federal budget negotiations. That probably wasn't on my bingo card. But as I've been talking to brands and retailers in that space, they've all stressed that, yes, the legislation that reopened the government gives the industry until November to figure this out, right, that the ban would go into effect November 2026. But they all, brands and retailers stress, but really some clarity needs to happen by you know, April, May, June, because retailers are going to start working through stock that they have, right? So if they foresee a real hard fall deadline, you know, they're not reordering come spring and summer. So I think putting that in perspective for the industry to show that really significant movement needs to happen on this in the next like quarter or two, it's quite a ticking clock. And I also sort of feel like the genie's out of the bottle on this one, but strange things have been happening in this space. And there's a lot of disparate interests here and a lot of groups that aren't on the same page. We haven't had exceedingly clear coalitions, even within alcohol, on this question. So I think it's just, it's a real mucky one. And so I think only more hemp coverage to come, right?
[00:35:48] Jessica Infante: So what would federal legalization of cannabis do here? anything or nothing. I feel like it's one of those two things. It's like either has absolutely no bearing or it just wipes out the hemp industry, maybe.
[00:36:04] David Steinman: I wouldn't be the best person at our company to even talk about this. Maybe Christopher Shepard, I'll give a quick plug, and my brother Jason have been doing even more of that sort of in the weeds coverage. But it feels like federal legalization absolutely has a chance. to put a damper on hemp derived. You know, it all depends on where everything's being sold. And so it's still possible that there's this other thing that is allowed in some general market. But again, it's all just speculation. Nobody knows how the federal government is going to go at this stage.
[00:36:48] Zoe Licata: What? Crazy.
[00:36:51] Jessica Infante: Well, David, it's funny you bring up Chris because, you know, Chris was on this episode last year and we talked a lot about the dietary guidelines and we don't have those either.
[00:37:01] David Steinman: Where are they? Yeah. Coming to a theater.
[00:37:07] Jessica Infante: Well, guys, this has been a great conversation. I do want to ask you, we're not going to ask you to predict anything because I know it is one of the commandments of Beer Marketer's Insights is we do not predict things. That's one of my dad's commandments. Oh, you want to break some rules? You never know. Maybe next year we need to get Benj. I would love that. Maybe next week we'll get Ben. But you know, for both of you, what's the one thing that you are going to pay attention to the most as kind of your signifier for other things in the industry? What do you think is one of the most important things we need to be looking at in 26?
[00:37:47] David Steinman: I keep going back to just this dynamic between some of the top brewers. Constellation was down for the first time in however many years, 15 years. Anheuser-Busch gained share of the U.S. beer industry for the first time in, I think, the ABI era. So these two things are very much related and there are broader powers at play that are impacting some of the reasons for those trends, I think. But, you know, I think ABI does have momentum. They were still down last year, but seeing if that momentum from 2025 can build into 2026 and beyond is a huge indicator. They're the largest brewer in the industry of what's gonna happen in U.S. beer and beyond. And conversely, Constellation, if it can get back on track, they have been the biggest growth company in U.S. beer. If they're able to get back on track and lap these softer comps in a more sustainable way, that's a big indicator as well.
[00:38:56] Jessica Infante: awesome, absolutely things to look for, and a lot of different influences happening in that interaction. Kate, what are you tracking?
[00:39:05] Kate Bernot: Yeah, this calls back a little bit to my sort of focus last year on the consumer spending and economic sentiment data, but I think Continuing to watch that in 2026, I think the fears of perhaps a recession have quieted a bit from where they were in the summer of 2025. But I think so many consumers still feel really squeezed and the effects that that has on the channels they're shopping in, right? Are we seeing people that shop more in C-stores because they're kind of paycheck to paycheck, or do we see people try to stock up at Club to get better deals? where consumers shift their spending, even just something as macro as like on versus off premise. I mean, that's going to help determine who some of the winners and losers are in terms of like categories and brands. So I think just watching how pressured consumers spend their money and where is going to be my big kind of watch for next year or for this year. We're in it.
[00:40:04] Jessica Infante: We're here.
[00:40:06] Kate Bernot: Apparently.
[00:40:08] Jessica Infante: Awesome. Well, you guys, always a great conversation and always lovely to chat with you. Before we let you go, I do want to let both of you tell the people where they can find you in case they want to hear more from you. David, what are all the deets on Beer Marketers Insights?
[00:40:22] David Steinman: We're very much a subscription-based newsletter and service, so sign up. We do have a free weekly digest that I highly recommend anyone who isn't as familiar with the range of our coverage. Go sign up for it recaps the top stories from each of our publications over the previous week Which is always hard to remember For some reason even you know one week later what happened, but that'll tell you and it's at a good price So sign up there, but you can find us subscribe for more detail. You can subscribe to any of our newsletters craft brew news Insights Express is our daily publication. Beer Marketers Insights goes out 23 times a year. Christopher Shepard, we've mentioned a couple times now, is on our alcohol issues insights for all alcohol policy and science coverage. And then we've got our non-alcoholic beverage business insights as well.
[00:41:25] Jessica Infante: Awesome. And Kate, give us a little bit of a download on not just you, but also Feel Goods. But start with you because you do a lot more than Feel Goods.
[00:41:34] Kate Bernot: Oh, sure. Yeah, I write some other places as well. You can find my recording in Craft Beer and Brewing and the Brewing Industry Guide as well as those other publications. Feel Goods Insights is the new name for Sightlines if people were familiar with that newsletter. We transitioned Sightlines to Feel Goods Insights to reflect the fact that it is the insights arm of Feel Goods Company, which is a full-service beverage innovation studio that myself and founder Michael Kaiser are a part of. So folks can check out our newsletter and subscribe at Sightlines.News and they can check out Feel Goods at FeelGoodsCompany.com.
[00:42:22] Jessica Infante: Awesome. You also have landed bylines in such publications as Bon Appetit, The New York Times, The Washington Post. What am I forgetting?
[00:42:31] Speaker 1: Wrote something for Saver last year, which is really fun because Saver is back in print. Isn't that great?
[00:42:37] Jessica Infante: That is great. Yeah. Well, a joy to have you both with us. Thank you so much. And I look forward to more of this crazy rollercoaster in 2026. And that's our show for this week. Thank you for listening. The Brewbound Podcast is a production of BevNET CPG. Our audio engineer for the Brewbound Podcast is Joe Cracci. Our technical director is Joshua Pratt, and our video editor is Ryan Galang. Our social marketing manager is Amanda Smerlinski. Our designer is Amanda Huang. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with your colleagues and friends and review us on your listening platform of choice. You can find our work at Brewbound.com. And we also welcome feedback and suggestions at podcast at Brewbound.com. On behalf of the entire Brewbound podcast team, thank you for listening. We'll be back next week.
