The Oregon Beverage Collective Finds Power in Numbers

[00:00:00] The Oregon: Heading to CBC? Kick things off the day before at Brewbound's meetup at Love City Brewing in Philly, Sunday, April 19th from 5 to 7 p.m. Connect with beer industry leaders, grab a drink, and catch up with the Brewbound team. It's free to attend and walking distance from the convention center. Head to Brewbound.com slash lovecity.rsvp. And don't forget to catch the Brewbound team at booth 956 during CBC. Next on the Brewbound Podcast, get to know Oregon's newest Beverage Collective. Hello, and welcome to the Brewbound Podcast.

[00:00:46] Justin Kendall: I'm Justin Kendall, and I'm Zoe Licata.

[00:00:49] The Oregon: And this week, it is the Justin and Zoe show again, Jess will return very soon. You and I have been holding it down for like the last three weeks.

[00:01:00] Justin Kendall: It's the realities of work from home and winters and school vacations in Massachusetts. So we're keeping it going.

[00:01:10] The Oregon: Just a minor blizzard there in Boston.

[00:01:13] Justin Kendall: Just a minor. Potentially rivaling the notorious blizzard of 78. So it's a winter wonderland out there.

[00:01:20] The Oregon: I won't even complain about the six inches of snow that we got that I had to shovel like a sucker while all the neighbors were out with their snowblowers.

[00:01:31] Justin Kendall: Yeah, I was just telling our upcoming podcast guests that the snow didn't quite leave from our last storm. That was about three weeks ago-ish at this point. So it's just piling on top. So I think if you really went out there and measured a decent pile of snow, it would be, I don't know, three, four feet at this point.

[00:01:50] The Oregon: I'm just glad that you still have power.

[00:01:52] Justin Kendall: Me too. You know what? I'm a little jealous of everyone that has their snow days today, but we're still going. Rebound continues on.

[00:02:02] The Oregon: There's a reason you don't live on the Cape.

[00:02:05] Justin Kendall: Yes. I mean, many other reasons.

[00:02:09] The Oregon: Well, Zoe, you just did an interview with Andy Rhine from Oregon Beverage Collective, and we're going to bring it to all the folks on this week's episode.

[00:02:20] Justin Kendall: Yeah, I just had a great conversation with Andy Rhine, who is the president of The Oregon Beverage Collective, which is a new Beverage Collective that formed with five Oregon, specifically Bend, Oregon based companies. He and his family are also the owners of two of those companies, Cascade Lakes Brewing and Tumalo Crux Fermentation. So we also have had the news that that has been bought from the original founders. Those guys are going to retire and live their best lives. But along with those two, there is also Silver Moon Brewing, Good Goodlife Brewing and Tumalo Cider. So they are all in this collective that is going to join a lot of their marketing efforts. Most production for all of those companies is going to move to Crux Fermentation in Bend and a bunch of other resources. So I talked with Andy about what is going into that, how this came about. some of the lessons learned or some of the pain points that they're finding and the responses he's gotten from distribution partners. So a lot of really good nuggets in that conversation later on in this episode.

[00:03:27] The Oregon: Stick around for that. And if you were a brew bound insider, you knew about this story last week. So we, you were on top of the story once it hit and people had the details, but we're going to go deeper into those. And, uh, we've got a lot of stories that we're going to talk about this week. And if you're an insider, you've had access to all of them and you'll have access to everything that we do this week and going forward. So become an insider today.

[00:03:52] Justin Kendall: This year has had a lot going on, so if you're not an insider, you're missing out.

[00:03:58] The Oregon: Definitely are. And also, anybody can check out our job board. Our job board has been a free resource to look for new jobs, so keep a lookout for that. Also, we got to plug Brewbound Live. That's coming up December 9th and 10th in Los Angeles. I was going to say Marina Del Rey, which... Technically true.

[00:04:19] SPEAKER_??: Yeah.

[00:04:20] The Oregon: We will be building that program out. So if you're interested in speaking, or if you have someone you want to suggest that we have on stage this year, feel free to reach out to us at podcast at brew bound.com. But then we got something else to plug this week. And that is you and Jess are going to be on the road in new England.

[00:04:41] Justin Kendall: Yeah, we are headed back up to Portland, Maine for the New England Craft Brew Summit. Podcast listeners may remember that we went last year and brought some recording equipment and did some interviews with folks. And we're stepping it up a bit this year and we're going to have a booth on the trade show floor at that conference. So we'll be recording some interviews there and also going to be there ahead of the event in case anybody wants to connect and do anything beforehand. That event is taking place on Friday, March 6th. which is a big day. It's Brewbound being at this conference, is the release of the new Harry Styles album, and it is the first F1 weekend of the year. So it's a very big day, March 6th. Put it on your calendars for all those reasons, but most importantly for us being in Portland. And if you're going to be there, if you're going to be in Maine, if you want to connect or if you want to talk to us, please, please, please email us and we can set something up because we are scheduling out those conversations right now.

[00:05:38] The Oregon: How are you going to find time for all that on March 6th?

[00:05:40] Justin Kendall: I don't know, it's a lot going on in my world.

[00:05:45] The Oregon: Yeah. Jess gonna watch some F1 with you?

[00:05:49] Justin Kendall: I don't think so. It's in Australia, so the times are a little all over the place. So we'll be back in Boston before the midnight qualifying time on Friday.

[00:06:00] The Oregon: Glad that you're able to make it.

[00:06:02] Justin Kendall: Thank you. Yeah, priorities.

[00:06:06] The Oregon: Well, let's talk about the news. And we have an exclusive report from Bump Williams Consulting on Dry January. And our friend over there, Dave Williams, shared that we're starting to see some signs of saturation with Dry January.

[00:06:20] Justin Kendall: Yeah, which isn't necessarily, I think, a negative thing for the non-alcoholic beer segment. But yeah, we're seeing that the kind of big Dry January push for non-alcoholic beer is slowing down quite significantly. And I think that's the nature of just the state of non-alcoholic beer right now, where folks aren't just drinking it in January so they can take the month off, they're drinking it year round. And so you're seeing growth for that segment. all times of the year. And so naturally, it's not going to be as notable in that first month.

[00:06:54] The Oregon: And this dovetails pretty nicely with a report from Bernstein. Nadine Sarawat over there wrote that we're starting to see the fever pitch of health and wellness. That is starting to break. And she offered Dry January as an example. They did an analysis with Civic Science, which is an insights firm. Basically, they found the number of people who said that they planned on taking part in Dry January and the people who actually did it didn't quite match up. A lot more people were more ambitious than they actually ended up being. And I want to say that they found that 19% of the people who said that they were going to take part in Dry January completed it.

[00:07:40] Justin Kendall: Yeah, which isn't entirely surprising. I think last year in a different survey, it was around 20 something percent of folks actually stayed committed to it. It's an ambitious thing to do and you can probably credit various things going on for why they don't actually stick to it. But I think that goes back to the idea too that folks are thinking about stuff all the time, year round. So the concept of just going, you know, one month dedicated to this is not as, doesn't have as much sticking power as it may be used to.

[00:08:10] The Oregon: Yeah, and they mentioned some narratives in the trade press, and there's been some negativity over the last year, but I would say that there were probably some good reasons for those reports.

[00:08:23] Justin Kendall: You can't ignore the data and what's actually happening in beverage alcohol. As we kind of predicted was going to happen this year is there's been a lot of trying to focus on the positivity and what's happening in the industry in a shinier light for better or for worse. And I think part of that is necessary to make sure there continues to be support momentum behind these categories. Unfortunately, as Amina, we are going to have to be a little bit of a reality check sometimes to make sure you have all the context of what is happening.

[00:08:53] Beverage Collective: Absolutely. This episode is brought to you by the Craft Brewers Conference, where big ideas, bold beers, and brutally honest shop talk collide. Join thousands of industry pros leveling up their game. Don't miss it. Register now at CraftBrewersConference.com.

[00:09:15] The Oregon: Let's talk about the Brewers Association. They released their annual report for 2025 and they slashed nearly every line item last year. It still wasn't enough to offset some declines that they're seeing in revenue. A spokesperson for the Brewers Association said the 2025 annual report reflects a year of honest assessment and strategic adjustments from how we operate internally to how we evolve cornerstone programs like GAVF. These decisions are about ensuring we remain responsive, efficient, and focused on what matters most to today's craft brewers. We believe this proactive approach sets us up not just to adapt but to emerge stronger in the years ahead. So that's the word from the BA. Expenses outweighed revenue by a little more than $2 million, and that was following a $2.165 million decline the previous year. And as we all know, events remain the BA's largest revenue source, and that didn't change last year. They took in $10 million in revenue. but it's still declined almost a quarter. So a lot of challenges at the Brewers Association, as we all know.

[00:10:34] Justin Kendall: Yeah, and it's not a problem that just they are dealing with. It's something we're seeing for a lot of other trade groups and for event hosts. It's just the state of both the industry and just events at this time. I mean, we heard similar things said from the American Cider Association about how they're really figuring out their financial situation. We've seen various things happen to different beer events throughout the past couple of years. It's just kind of a transitional period of figuring out, okay, how do these things logistically work now in the current state of things?

[00:11:06] The Oregon: And you see that in how the Brewers Association has adjusted with CBC. They've lowered ticket prices. They've cut the number of days. They're also making changes to GABF. It's moving outdoors. It's two days instead of three. And I mean, it used to be four in several sessions.

[00:11:25] Justin Kendall: Yeah, I'm curious to see how the numbers for next year are going to look with all these changes because it continues to, they continue to rework things and cut back on some things.

[00:11:34] The Oregon: Let's talk about the Trump tariffs. And the Supreme Court struck down the Trump tariffs on Friday. And these were the reciprocal tariffs. And they said, you can't bypass Congress and use this Emergency Powers Act to enact these tariffs. There's questions of how this revenue, this hundreds of billions of dollars that they've collected, are going to be refunded, basically. And Trump himself said, There's going to be litigation, so it's unclear how that will be paid back.

[00:12:10] Justin Kendall: There's even question of if this means really anything at all, because then, as we heard in response to this, is that Trump is now going to enact even more tariffs. He first said it was going to be a 10% and now saying a 15% global tariff that he wants to enact. So it's not anywhere near the end of this discussion. And as you found out through talking with Bart Watson, this does not affect all tariffs, particularly all tariffs that are affecting brewers right now, because this is just for those special ones that he put into effect, not ones that have been in for a while, like Section 232 tariffs. That's all those aluminum ones.

[00:12:48] The Oregon: And that is the key point here is this did not cover the aluminum and steel tariffs, the 232 tariffs, like you said, that the Beer Institute and the Brewers Association and other trade groups have been fighting against for years now, since 2018.

[00:13:06] Justin Kendall: Yeah, since Trump's first term.

[00:13:08] The Oregon: I did speak with Bart, as you mentioned, and he said, you know, brewers should expect to be in a high cost of goods environment going forward. So not a whole lot is changing here, and especially after Trump sort of raged at the court and said, you know, I'm going to find other ways of doing this. And that 15%, we should mention, it's going to be in effect for 150 days. And then Congress can step in and decide whether it continues or not.

[00:13:40] Justin Kendall: Right. So we're going to continue to monitor things and see how it continues to unfold. So we will keep you updated on the latest.

[00:13:50] The Oregon: Also, and this is probably a workaround for tariffs too, a story that sort of flew under the radar last week was Tilray Brands striking a five-year licensing deal with Carlsberg. And Carlsberg had been importing to the U.S. But this deal will be for stateside production, marketing, sales. So basically Tilray is taking four of Carlsberg's brands and they're going to be producing them here. They'll be selling them here. They'll be running the distribution through here. So that's all moving stateside. So no more importing for those brands. And there is a five-year period where they will be doing this. And if things go well, they're going to do it for five more years after that.

[00:14:34] Justin Kendall: Yeah. Import brands trying to find a stateside production partner is something that's been happening for a while now, even before tariffs, but I think it's definitely been accelerated or even more incentivized to find one of those partners now with the impact of tariffs. We've seen Sapporo done it. We've seen Asahi do it. We've seen Peroni do it.

[00:14:55] The Oregon: Molson Coors.

[00:14:56] Justin Kendall: Yeah.

[00:14:57] The Oregon: Anheuser-Busch with Stella.

[00:14:58] Justin Kendall: Yeah, there's so many that just those are all within the past year or two. So a lot of folks just have found it to make more sense logistically and financially to not import those brands anymore. I think you can confidently say just based on looking at some of the sales of those brands that have already done it, that it doesn't really seem to impact consumer sentiment too much. I don't know how aware they are of it in the first place. I don't think they really market it so much that it's now produced here. It doesn't seem to negatively affect those brands in a way where it's not worthwhile.

[00:15:32] The Oregon: And they'll be doing this bi-coastal. So one brewery on the East Coast and one brewery on the West Coast will produce Carlsberg. And I think this is a win-win for both, especially Tilray, because when you've got a million barrels of capacity to fill and you're not using half of it or so, it doesn't hurt to bring this in.

[00:15:52] Justin Kendall: Yeah, one of the core motivations behind a lot of Tilray's deals and picking up so many beverage brands the past few years has been wanting capacity and logistics for things like their cannabis beverages. And with the state of those beverages kind of in a place of uncertainty right now and taking potentially longer than they originally thought, they need to do something with that capacity. And so this provides them that opportunity.

[00:16:20] The Oregon: And as we talk about collectives too, let's shift gears here and talk about the left-hand collective. And they've added to it with bootstrap brewing.

[00:16:29] Justin Kendall: Yeah, so Left Hand Collective, you might recall that came together towards the end of last year with the merger of Left Hand Brewing and Dry Dock. And now they've added Bootstrap, which is also based out of Colorado. They've characterized it as a partnership, but we know with some of these collectives and platforms, it's kind of hard to really distinguish how they're financially setting some things up. but that is how they have characterized it rather than a merger or an acquisition. So they join a portfolio that now also includes tabernache brewing, foundry distilling, as well as Dock Tales, which is that RTD brand and present sparkling water. So a lot of folks in this collective now having these joint resources of production that all that production is going to move to left-hand. We got a couple more details after our initial report that we added. So if you kind of saw that story, haven't seen the update, make sure you check it out. But a spokesperson that we spoke to noted that, you know, with the production move, there is going to be a quote, unquote, gradual transition of production people. And they're going to try to transition as many jobs as possible through that process. Additionally, the founders of Bootstrap, who are Leslie and Steve Caksos, apologies if I mispronounced their last name, but those founders are going to continue in their roles at Bootstrap and continue to lead that brewery. as it's independent brand. Distribution-wise, not entirely aligned. So that's something they're going to have to figure out. And something we've seen has been kind of an interesting or a complicated point for a lot of these collectives is figuring out distribution. So they are in kind of different distribution networks. Bootstrap is mainly with Coors and then Left Hand and Drydock are with Breakthrough, specifically when it comes to Colorado. So they're going to have to figure that out as well. But yeah, just another collective expanding and adding to the mix here. It's getting hard to keep track of all of them that are out there.

[00:18:25] The Oregon: Yeah, this is the new flowchart. It used to be, you know, who's owned by Anheuser-Busch, who's owned by Molson Coors, who's owned by Constellation Brands or Heineken. These charts are so concentrated with these regional craft brewing collectives. And even within those, like you're going to talk about with Andy The Oregon Beverage Collective, they don't even own everything in there. Some of it's partnerships, some of it's ownership. It's just so fluid. And I think that you just said that this was the same sort of thing with Bootstrap where they don't own it. It's just a partnership.

[00:19:04] Justin Kendall: Yeah. Right, it's not entirely straightforward for a lot of these things and they, you know, are aligning when it comes to stuff like production and when it comes to stuff like working out their, you know, marketing teams. But they're still all independent brands and coordinating, you know, where those things are going to be, what distributors are with. all become very complicated. And so yeah, it's something we now have to keep on top of. Who is a part of these collectives now? And what does what do those partnerships look like? Because they are certainly not the same in every single one.

[00:19:37] The Oregon: Yeah, it's a lot of consolidating production and downsizing your equipment or offloading some of that extraneous equipment, filling up capacity, essentially, and scaling down. So If you can do it, great, but then we see all of these auctions for brewery equipment. It is a buyer's market at this point.

[00:20:00] Justin Kendall: Yeah, there is a lot of equipment out there. And there are also a lot of people who are co-packing that are looking to still continue to fill capacity and bring more folks on. And so that capacity piece has been really a key part of a lot of what's happening with craft brewers right now.

[00:20:16] The Oregon: I heard Lester Jones talking about this not too long ago, very controversially.

[00:20:21] Justin Kendall: Well, yeah, that's a sensitive topic now, apparently in the industry. But yes, how much capacity is out there is to blame for the state of things is a more contentious topic. But it is definitely a factor in a lot of what's going on.

[00:20:37] The Oregon: Well, let's learn more about The Oregon Beverage Collective with your interview with Andy Rhine.

[00:20:45] Justin Kendall: One 2025 trend that is not going away in 2026 or not slowing down anytime soon has been the creation of craft brewery and other Beverage Collective and platforms combining various resources such as production, sales, marketing, And the latest to join this trend is The Oregon Beverage Collective. They consist of five Bend, Oregon-based companies, Crux Fermentation Project, Cascade Lakes Brewing, Silver Moon Brewing, Good Goodlife Brewing and Tumalo Cider. So here to discuss this new collective is the now president of The Oregon Beverage Collective and the co-owner of Cascade Lakes. It is Andy Rhine. Welcome, Andy.

[00:21:25] Crux Fermentation: Thanks, Zoe. Thanks for having me here. I'm excited to talk about The Oregon Beverage Collective.

[00:21:30] Justin Kendall: Yeah, thank you for joining and thank you for agreeing so speedily to share information and to join the pod. We always appreciate when folks are willing to come and chat about some new details because there's a lot going on in the craft beverage world right now, especially when it comes to these collectives. So I always enjoy hearing the perspective of folks who are actually doing it. There are kind of two stories that we're hitting on here. One is this creation of The Oregon Barber Collective, but also within that, you guys announced the news that your family has also acquired Crux Fermentation from the founders of that brewery. Can we start on that real quick just to clarify things on the business side? How did this acquisition come about? Because this is an independent acquisition of that brewery rather than a merger, right?

[00:22:17] Crux Fermentation: That's correct. Yeah, my family and I have been local to Bend for 26 years, and we've owned Cascade Lakes for eight years. Larry Sidor, the founding brewmaster and one of the principals at Crocs, actually recruited us into the business. He was one of our first contacts. you know, just asking what, what were we potentially getting ourselves into? So we'd known each other for a long time. And Larry started Crux kind of in the twilight of his career, his sort of his last initiative. And so there's always some sort of like thought there as far as like how he wanted to exit. And if we might be a good fit, that's kind of how the relationship formed. And we know Paul Evers, who he's just a brilliant marketing mind and the two of them really kind of captured lightning in a bottle with Crocs, especially in the 2010s.

[00:23:11] Justin Kendall: Why was it important for you all to do that as that kind of separate acquisition rather than a full on merger deal?

[00:23:18] Crux Fermentation: Yeah, I think two things. One, and this is consistent throughout all our conversations with forming The Oregon Beverage Collective, is that it's really important that each brand maintains its unique identity. That's sort of a challenge we have here because obviously it helps our business to consolidate resources and consolidate sales, marketing, production efforts, but maintain each brand's unique identity was part of the thought. And then also, there are some advantages with licensing and self-distributing to your own on-premise locations. We have quite a few on-premise locations under our belt at this point. We're exploring another opportunity as we speak, and we opened a new restaurant in Prineville. So between them all, we have, I think, like seven or so with, you know, if you count Good Life's Pub, and we have various relationships with them. But part of that is done for licensing advantages, I suppose.

[00:24:17] Justin Kendall: Sure. I want to touch on some of that, that kind of on-premise identity in a little bit. But first, you had that deal and then now we have The Oregon Beverage Collective with five separate brands. How did those conversations start with all of those folks about, hey, maybe we can do something together?

[00:24:34] Crux Fermentation: Yeah, it was super fortuitous timing with the spot that all these brands were in and just their business conditions and leases and such. And so we had been kind of building our co-packing business. And it's interesting that we're all in Bend, but I do think with The partnerships involved here, it takes a lot of trust and like-minded people to put this together. So it helps that we're all local. I think we're all friends and good relationships that are, you know, owners and managers of these brands. So we've spent a lot of time together and it's like, what do we want this to look like? And what do we want to create here? And what are partnership agreements that work for both sides? Because I don't own Silver Moon. I don't own Good Life or Tumalo Cider. So what is going to be viable for their business and helpful for ours as well? So we had actually gotten to co-packing for the non-Crux brands involved. And that's when I, again, I'm just friends with Larry, and he's a mentor of mine, and same with Paul. I try to get beers with him a couple times a year and see what I can learn from him. And so I was just sharing what we were doing. And he was like, well, why don't you bring that over to Crux? And I was like, well, you know, there's a couple, obviously, there's like, some financial things that we would have to work through. And then we're super loyal to our people. We have some people in Cascade Lakes that have been with the company for 20 plus years. And so just having control over any potential integration was really important to us. So that didn't really work out, but then it evolved to, well, you know, Paul and I really want to retire. We've brainstormed and pitched and thought about pitching to other larger groups. But if you're interested in what you're building, like, Larry built the Taj Mahal of a small craft brewery. This is a very well-designed facility, whereas we're a legacy brewery. We're the third ownership group of the brewery, so it's been around for 32 years. The brewery's been around for 32 years, and we've been in the same production facility for almost 30 years. So we don't have all the technology or capability that Crux does. We think Crux puts out outstanding beer, but they can also do, you know, they do bottles of wine, they do keg cocktails, they can do RTDs. They have a lot of innovation in their portfolio. They do cider, they have all the licenses. So this was just, it was more capacity, more product capability, better product quality. We're in it for the long haul. Like, you know, my sister and I both work for Cascade Lakes and So, so there was a lot of like, I guess, uh, mutual interest and it just became like a pretty exciting opportunity for us. That's, that's kind of how it all came together.

[00:27:30] Justin Kendall: Yeah. It speaks to one of those core things of craft beer is still right of it's still, even though everyone's quote unquote competitors, there's still so much collaboration and talk among breweries that you can end up creating something like this because everyone's kind of, Hey, this is what I'm doing. This is what I'm doing. How can we find something that works for all of us?

[00:27:50] Crux Fermentation: Absolutely.

[00:27:51] Justin Kendall: So as you said, Crux has lots of possibilities with their production facility. So almost all brewing from the collective is now going to move there. What is the exception to that?

[00:28:02] Crux Fermentation: We're not ready to announce yet, but we all know that the CBD space is coming on hard. We've helped launch some brands through co-packing for that. And so that's a space that, you know, it could be short term just due to the timeline of regulations. I don't think it will be based off what I've been hearing. Between that and then maybe cider, there has been quite a lot of demand for co-packing both locally and nationally. So I do think we want to keep both facilities, but really streamlining the Redmond one and bringing pretty much all the beer volume over and cider to Crocs Bend.

[00:28:42] Justin Kendall: And then you have mentioned and really emphasized this is not about cutting down on staff either. Like there are going to be opportunities to move some folks over to that facility as well, right?

[00:28:52] Crux Fermentation: That's correct. Yeah, we basically see ourselves as roughly doubling the volume of Crux's facility and And there's also a lot of exciting opportunities with relationships and territory coverage. For example, Silver Moon has a great partner in Colorado and none of the other brands distribute to Colorado, but the owners of the distributor are big fans of Ben Beir. You know, they can all from one location, they can pick up, you know, five brands. So it streamlines things for them. And there's There's other examples. So we think there's a lot of growth opportunity, both for our volume, but also for our organization. We think there's a lot more, a lot more work to do right now. So we definitely are. I mean, some job positions are going to change and their duties and responsibilities as we kind of unite and become one team. But I definitely think that we'll be able to keep pretty much everyone. And we're just kind of in the process of defining The Oregon chart and what's needed for the organization.

[00:29:52] Justin Kendall: So what are some of those other resources that this now is going to be shared or that opens up across brands beyond just production? Is it going to be joint sales teams? What does that look like for all the brands?

[00:30:06] Crux Fermentation: Yeah, I think we see like joint management, joint sales, joint marketing. We do have sort of an interesting dilemma in Oregon where there's kind of two powerhouse distributors and some of the brands involved are with one and others are with... So in the on-premise, we really want to keep that apart. We have good relationships with both of them, fortunately, and they understand. That's been kind of a nice surprise as I kind of was concerned about how distributors might react with that. It's like, well, who are you pushing for? And I think distributors are taking this as like a sign of strength, a sign of that we're a stable business and that Each brand underneath this portfolio now has more sales and marketing support than they had prior, especially the smaller ones. So they've been excited. I think it's an indicator that our families wants to invest in this and grow. So definitely it was sales and marketing to answer your question. But yeah, it's been nice to have the distributor support because I wasn't totally sure how they might react.

[00:31:10] Justin Kendall: I think what's probably key to that, and you guys really emphasize this in the press release, is that this collective wasn't really coming together because necessarily any of these brands were struggling, right? Like all of these brands are still in a pretty strong place on their own. So it's easier to kind of accept something when you see, okay, this is adding positive things across the board.

[00:31:31] Crux Fermentation: We think so. Yeah. I think they all have a unique brand identity and they all have like some pretty good things going for them. So yeah, we're just, we're just trying to accelerate. Not go like too far, but again, if like one brand is in the state and their truck's already coming and we're already supporting it, we're already working with the distributors on forecasting and new products. If there's desire, which pretty much every distributor we've talked to is into it. Yeah. We want to grow with them.

[00:32:00] Justin Kendall: Another thing that you all have been very clear about is that this collective is meant to be a very community-driven collection of brands. Community is a really strong point for each one of them individually. What does that mean to you and how do you execute that across all brands?

[00:32:16] Crux Fermentation: Yeah, I think we're really proud of where we're from. So emphasizing that we're in Bend and that we want to be partners in the community and super active, supporting local fundraisers, local events. That's something all the brands do. And then at our core level, everybody involved. All the brands have always, you know, had great teams. And so now we're kind of just coming together as one big family with an approach of strength and longevity and reinventing ourselves. It is a tricky time to be a legacy brand because you want to hold on and Be proud of what got you here and everyone that's helped along the way, but also people like new and shiny and want to give something new to offer as well. But yeah, that's what community means to us and just taking care of everyone that's under our umbrella is super important to us.

[00:33:11] Justin Kendall: When it comes to these collectives and platforms, we've seen a couple of different approaches to like the on-premise and tap rooms. And some folks are keeping them totally separate. They're not going to combine things. And other folks are saying, hey, we're going to have a space that features everybody. What is your approach to those on-premise spaces? Are you going to see some of those brands in those spaces? Are they going to continue to be totally separate operations?

[00:33:32] Crux Fermentation: They'll mostly be separate. We've talked about some collaborations and some of the on-premise venues are actually, you know, we have a restaurant that's not branded as Cascade Lakes, and we actually had already had a collective prioritized on tap. A couple other options, and that's kind of our plan moving forward, is if it's a Crux location, it's going to be pretty much all Crux. If it's a collective location, it'll be all of us. no real changes coming to the existing on-premise venues outside of like, you know, I think all the breweries will have Tumalo Cider on tap, that sort of thing. We've definitely got a lot of interest from our accounts, you know, our on-premise partners that want to do, you know, Oregon Beverage Collective tap takeovers and such, which we're really excited about. That does get a little tricky again with the distributors, you know, and like having POS made and You know, if we want to go with a draft trailer, it's like, which beers can you and can't you put on tap? So we got to sort that out. We have not collectively been like pushing that too much just because there is so much to do as is. We've talked a lot about doing a Beverage Collective, beer fest, stuff like that, or like a rotating event across all the on premise. So we have a lot of ideas and ones that we're really excited about, but we just haven't quite gotten to them yet.

[00:34:55] Justin Kendall: Have there been any other kind of challenging pieces or things that you've discovered that kind of happened with bringing these things together like that? Oh, we have to kind of figure out this balance with distributors. Are there any other things that have been pain points?

[00:35:10] Crux Fermentation: You know, obviously, probably the biggest one is integrating everyone's budget. That's like kind of the hardest part of a merger. And then also, again, just changing job titles and descriptions and such. It's super important for us to make sure the employees feel secure because it is a lot of change. And again, our team stability means a lot to us. And we have a lot of good people, so we want to make sure that they feel secure. That's always a challenge. The licensing aspect, what we're doing is something that some regulators that are super helpful for us, we can call them and meet with them, but they've even told us like, oh, we haven't seen this before. Like, let us go back and check. Because we're like, hey, this is like pretty confusing on your website, you know, can you explain? And they're like, oh, you know, that's kind of confusing to us too. Yeah, which is okay. But yeah, that that was where those are probably the most challenging aspects of all of this. I think it's been pretty like the employees have received it. Well, distribution partners, accounts,

[00:36:17] Justin Kendall: I wanted to kind of pull back a little bit and get your perspective on just what the state of craft beer and beverage is like in Oregon. It's totally different across different markets right now, especially in 2026. So what does that look like? What is kind of the health of craft in Oregon at the moment?

[00:36:36] Crux Fermentation: Well, I think it's in line with, you know, kind of the national trends of being down five or six percent the past year or so. I think we're kind of all grappling with the new reality. You know, everyone in the collective and my network, we all talk often about what our package draft splits were pre-COVID and post-COVID and where our volumes sit currently and are trending pre-COVID and post-COVID. I think Brewbound covered this, The Oregon did have a massive shakeup with their distributors, with Columbia acquiring Point Blank. That pretty much impacts every brewery, regardless of which distributor you're with in Oregon. That's why we're seeing this wave of consolidation. I think the main ones and the main collectives in Oregon are great frontier holdings and ourselves. I think we're pinched a little tight. And I do think the smaller breweries that are mostly focusing on taproom and on-prem sales, I think that'll always be a solid business model, but I do think the larger ones that are trying to make it in wholesale. We're all working on getting creative, whether it be new product lines, RTDs, non-alcoholic beverages, etc. Expanding distribution or some sort of partnerships or doing more on-premise venues to try to self-distribute your own beer too and capture that margin. There's definitely a big shift going on right now as far as trying to be stable long-term.

[00:38:10] Justin Kendall: Yeah, we've seen that kind of across the board of folks kind of hunkering down and figuring out, okay, how can we adjust our strategy to make this more sustainable of a business? Because it's the one thing that happens when you know you're in the kind of boom of things is that you can get away with not doing that as much and now not so much.

[00:38:29] Crux Fermentation: Yeah, consumer preferences are changing. I think we all talk about it in the industry all the time, but going out and even when you're going out, what are you drinking while you're going out, if you are? And I guess that's, you know, while this was a pretty big move for us to make, It's hard not to feel a little overwhelmed and the next 90 days and probably this whole year is going to be pretty chaotic. But we do think that this is the way the industry is moving. We have received without, you know, opening it up on our website or promoting it. We've received quite a bit of co-packing interest, just brands that are still trying to capture some value of what they've built, but also in a cash positive way. You know, if you can get out from under your lease of the brewery and you can consolidate and And plus, like, I think we'll be able to provide more as a co-packer. It's not really our desire, but I think it kind of, I guess, protects our investment in a way. It's an avenue that should one of these brands struggle for any reason, or we need to grow our volume in one way or another, that's something that we think we can add more to.

[00:39:40] Justin Kendall: Are you looking at all to expand the collective itself and who's a part of that or is it kind of solid where it is right now?

[00:39:50] Crux Fermentation: We think it's solid where it is right now. We're really eager from a sales and wholesale perspective to execute on a handful of initiatives and new product lines and expansion for quite a few of the brands involved. But it was just a unique set of relationships and a lot of trust that got us here. And it's an interesting sales cycle, trying to sell someone It's really nothing like, you know, like taking over a lease or, um, or like trying to gain a tap handle. That's kind of more my background or trying to gain some shelf space. It's like, this is your business, this is your livelihood. And it has a lot of ramifications on the breweries and cideries involves budget. So just have to be really transparent and also like, I guess just be really solid with your partnership. And I think we feel pretty good with where we're at. But I mean, we do want to grow, you know, we have two facilities to operate and we are looking at moving some tanks into Crux's production facility to kind of help us with SKU management and growth. So we are, you know, exploring some co-packing opportunities, but I don't think that's going to be our focus moving forward.

[00:41:06] Justin Kendall: Anything that we didn't talk about that you wanted to make sure we did?

[00:41:10] Crux Fermentation: I guess just like I've loved working in this industry. I really enjoy talking with others. So and I guess I'm just like really appreciative of this industry support of what we're doing, because I mean, everyone I've heard from, again, distributors, accounts, other brewery owners, other brewery managers, like sales representatives, people I compete with. They've all just reacted positively to this. So if there's anything I can do to help, I do believe rising tides lift all boats. So I'm happy to share my contact if I can be of help or I can always learn something from anyone.

[00:41:46] Justin Kendall: Amazing. Really great to hear that it's positive, especially these days. So really appreciate you coming on and joining us, Andy, and we can't wait to see what comes next for you all.

[00:41:57] Crux Fermentation: Thank you so much, Zoe. I appreciate you having me on.

[00:42:01] Cascade Lakes: And that's our show for this week. Thank you for listening. The Brewbound Podcast is a production of BevNET CPG. Our audio engineer for the Brewbound Podcast is Joe Cracci. Our technical director is Joshua Pratt and our video editor is Ryan Galang. Our social marketing manager is Amanda Smerlinski. Our designer is Amanda Huang. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with your colleagues and friends and review us on your listening platform of choice. You can find our work at Brewbound.com and we also welcome feedback and suggestions at podcast at Brewbound.com. On behalf of the entire Brewbound Podcast team, thank you for listening. We'll be back next week.