Brewbound Podcast: The Most-Read Beer Biz Stories of 2022

[00:00:00] Jessica Infante: Welcome to The Brewbound Holiday Party! Hello everyone. Welcome to The Brewbound podcast. My name is Justin Kendall and I'm the editor The Brewbound and I'm joined by Jessica Infante, the managing editor The Brewbound. What's up, Jess? Hey, Nathan. How are you? I'm doing well. I mean, we're in a festive mood because this is our little holiday party here. This is our holiday party and it was just my birthday. I guess this counts as a Daugherty because we're doing it in the morning. So who else would join a Daugherty? But Zoe Licata, welcome to the Daugherty. I've ruined the word, right?

[00:00:44] Zoe Licata: No, no, I think it was all used appropriately.

[00:00:47] Jessica Infante: OK, well, you know, when a 45 year old man starts saying Darty, it might be the death of the word. Also joining us is a special Brewbound guest, Sean McNulty, who writes our weekend insider newsletters. What's up, Sean? How are you doing, Justin? Good to see you. See, we don't hate you. We invited you to the holiday party.

[00:01:05] Sean McNulty: You know, just it's fine. You know, I get, you know, favorite reporters. I've never quite mentioned, not that I'm a reporter, but you know, I do have a presence on the The Brewbound. So come on, man, you know, at least acknowledge I could be fourth place. That's all I'm saying. We don't have places here, you know. I know mine, so it's all good.

[00:01:24] Jessica Infante: Yeah. You're a solid third between 2A and 2B. I'm often told that. I don't even know who one would be. So anyway, this is our year in wrap up episode, we're going to go over some of the most read stories of the year. And then we're going to do something probably ill advised and turn things over to Sean and let him do the the hosting gig a little bit. Let's let's dive into some of the most read stories of the year. And unsurprisingly, Top spot goes to Stone Brewing being sold to Sapporo, a story that Jess and Zoe were up at two in the morning to get that news out first, just waiting for that Japanese stock exchange to close. This was the biggest story of the year. And actually across a lot of our most read stories, Stone featured pretty heavily. And for starters, the biggest story, the sale, $165 million. The brewery that had vowed to never sell out to the man ended up selling to Sapporo. Honestly, to me, one of the most notable things is what didn't happen. Nobody was all that outraged about this. You know, if this sale had happened five to eight years ago, people would be screaming bloody murder at how mad they were. But we didn't really see that this time. And it really dissipated. I noticed this around the time Bell sold, was that there wasn't really an outrage then. And even in New Belgium, I feel like there wasn't really that, oh man, never drinking that beer again. I mean, you could probably dig up a few Twitter posts for that or Facebook posts, but really, are we in the era of, eh, this is just how it is. Yeah. Like you remember Wicked Weed sold to Anheuser-Busch.

[00:03:19] Sean McNulty: Yeah. That was like, Wicked Weed was like the peak of this. I feel like that was like peak outrage of the sale. And I feel like that is what took the sales out or the wind out of the sails for a craft enthusiast. I don't know. You know, and it's funny to think about Wicked Weed now where, I mean, who even really, you know, kind of talks about that brand where before it was like, oh, my God, you're ruining craft beer. And now the biggest ones in the field have, you know,

[00:03:45] Jessica Infante: Yeah, all people like boycotted a festival of theirs. Like there were other contingency festivals held to get all that. Like it was crazy. It was a mess.

[00:03:54] Sean McNulty: Yeah, you're right.

[00:03:55] Jessica Infante: That that likely was the peak of outrage. Yeah.

[00:03:59] Sean McNulty: So Zoe, is this all foreign to you? This is Zoe.

[00:04:03] Jessica Infante: Zoe was not a legal drinker at the time. It's always like, why would anybody give a shit about craft brewery selling or like care that much? Like, sorry about your good luck of, you know, receiving the dollars in exchange for your hard work.

[00:04:17] Zoe Licata: I was going through the replies to when we tweeted out the story the other day to just like see what people's general responses were. And there was a handful of like quote-unquote outrage, but just kind of like half-hearted nose or disappointment. And most of it was just general like acceptance, I think, or like unsurprised reactions.

[00:04:39] Jessica Infante: Which, I guess the reason that it would be surprising in this regard is that co-founder of Stone, Greg Cook, was among the most devout craft beer evangelists that there were. movie documentary called Craft Beer Jesus or Beer Jesus, whatever, which gets into maybe another reason that they ended up selling, which was a ill-advised German brewery. But that leads us to another of our most read stories, and that was Greg's farewell post that he put out there that was nearly 2,500 words in length, quoted Metallica and Roman poet, I'm going to mess up the name, Herculetus. Did I get this wrong, Jess? Heraclitus? I don't know. It only took like a year's worth of Latin. Couldn't really tell you.

[00:05:38] Sean McNulty: I like the Nutty Professor version there. Herculetus. I think that's the way to go, Jess. Let's lean into that.

[00:05:44] Jessica Infante: That this many people read this piece makes me feel better about it because I remember writing it at the time and was like, Does this matter? Am I paying way too much attention to Greg's blog slash diary, but the people were interested. Yes, they were definitely interested. And Greg called it probably the hardest thing he had ever done. And you got to think that maybe it was that again, Stone featured heavily into our coverage of 2022. And for another reason, another top story. And that gets us to the four years in the making trademark infringement trial, or lawsuit that finally went to trial in 2022, back in March. And that was our ninth most read story. And it was a jury award stone, $56 million in its case against Molson Coors. And that, of course, relates to Molson Coors 2017 relaunch of Keystone Light, the rebrand that split the words key and stone and ended up with a very memorable Greg Cook video announcing the lawsuit. So this was the resolution that we'd all been waiting for.

[00:06:56] Sean McNulty: I think that was the most, that was the most individual pieces written about story, the volume of things in that story. I mean, I just, you know, just kept going and I'm like, Oh my God, just that's a story that wouldn't end. That's my like award for that story of the year. Because even when the case was decided, it wasn't decided. And then, you know, there was the whole sycamore thing that kind of came into it too. And they sued Stone, you know, for essentially stealing a tagline, you know, or borrowing a tagline that they had trademarked. And, you know, that story just, you know, kept going. I think legally, probably we all got smarter in a legal sense. We may be all paralegals by now, but that's, I learned a lot, but that was a long story for, you know, that was a six month or at least a five month endeavor, really.

[00:07:42] Jessica Infante: Yeah, Escondido kept us real busy this year. Yeah. Yeah. And I think the trial, the big thing was a lot of revelations coming out of that, whether that was Stone arguing that they had seen a 20 percent decline since the relaunch of Keystone Light, which Molson Coors attorneys argued, well, Kraft is down since then, which is not unfair, or that, you know, Oh boy, the brewery considered a sale. You don't say. So it's interesting that the trial and everything around that didn't do anything to ultimately stop the brewery from being sold for $165 million, which did not include the distribution business. So also on our list of most read stories, and you can go back and check these out, but the Brewers Association's annual list of the top 50 craft breweries by volume. For me, the standouts in that were, there's always jockeying, but the top of the list largely stays the same. But it's always, you know, who makes that leap? And Athletic, the non-alcoholic beer maker, made a huge leap. They jumped up to from number 65 in 2020 to number 27 in 2021. And they crossed the one thousand one hundred thousand barrel threshold.

[00:09:16] Sean McNulty: Yeah. And there they said they crossed that mark in August of this year. So the next year's number, I mean, I'm curious to see how high they get for the 2022 year. So I mean, there's only bigger things ahead with that brand.

[00:09:29] Jessica Infante: Yeah. And they've done so much work on their breweries that they've got so much capacity that tons of runway. Somebody else that made a pretty big leap this year was Fiddlehead Brewing, who is our craft brewery of the year. They leapt 37 spots to squeeze in at number 49. And we've talked about them so much in this space because, you know, we were happy to have them The Brewbound Live and, you know, as one of our award winners, but yeah, they do all of that on the back of a craft beer only portfolio in a pretty tight geographic market.

[00:10:03] Zoe Licata: All like only cold distribution, like that was, yeah. When that list came out was kind of the first time we were like, ooh, what are you up to Fiddlehead? We should probably be chatting to you.

[00:10:16] Jessica Infante: And pickleball courts coming. Yeah, pickleball courts, of course, for legit. They are adding pickleball courts. So I need to find a pickleball related Christmas gift for my mom in the next like three days because it's like all she does now.

[00:10:31] Sean McNulty: You should buy a T-shirt from the ABI sponsored team, Jess, that they own. Maybe.

[00:10:36] Zoe Licata: Yeah, there you go.

[00:10:37] Sean McNulty: That's a little combined both little from those some from the, from your daughter, from your beer, beer, biz daughter, combining, combining all of your loves. She'll love that. She likes my culture.

[00:10:47] Jessica Infante: There you go. How does she feel about busy? Aren't they the official sponsor of. She's not big, not big on hard seltzer. All right. Yeah. Missed opportunity.

[00:11:01] SPEAKER_??: Yeah.

[00:11:01] Jessica Infante: Yeah, you're missing the 65 and up bracket there. Hard seltzer. Reconsider.

[00:11:07] Sean McNulty: Runway. White space. There you go.

[00:11:10] Jessica Infante: Another story that, and another transaction, although a very atypical one that was among the most read stories was the Modern Times auction. And the result of that, which wasn't really the result, which was Anaheim's Brewery X being the quote unquote winning bidder for $20 million that they subsequently never paid. And Maui ended up acquiring Modern Times for half that. Speaking of stories that never end, this was certainly one of them. I had the honor of being included in our friends at Rabobanks and in Year in Review podcast where we do like a story draft where we go around and everybody picks what they think was the most important. And I picked this whole saga because I think it's like a microcosm of a lot of different issues in craft beer right now. Some inflated valuations. getting out over your skis on taproom expansions. What do you think is over your skis with a pool, Jess and Anna?

[00:12:14] Sean McNulty: How did we not know about this? This is my own disappointment of the year of like, how am I just learning about this now? How could you call that access?

[00:12:23] Jessica Infante: I'm sorry, that is totally reasonable. And what every taproom needs and what everybody wants to do when they're drinking, you know, I double IPAs is put on a swimsuit and get in a pool with everybody. Yeah, that's high on my list of things to do. That would be a perfect Seltzeria like three years ago. Yes. You know what? It's on the market because they had to give it up. So, Seltzer brands in Southern California. Well, the Seltzeria- Grab your way right there.

[00:12:54] Sean McNulty: Isn't Trulia's in Southern California?

[00:12:56] Jessica Infante: Yeah, Truly's in LA.

[00:12:58] Sean McNulty: Yeah, there you go. Just a free idea, guys. Not a free space, though, as Zoe will attest.

[00:13:06] The Brewbound: No.

[00:13:08] Sean McNulty: And we all know what a stalking horse bid is now. That was new to me. Did Zoe, did you ever heard of a stalking bid report before? No, absolutely not.

[00:13:17] Zoe Licata: No, I learned a lot through this thing. One, never, you know, breathe a sigh of relief when you think something is over because it's probably not over. I remember when the auction ended and we finally wrote that story, we're like, tentatively, we're like, okay, we finally are at the end of this and we had so much further to go. Just kidding.

[00:13:41] Jessica Infante: Well, and to go back to Jess and Zoe point about this being a microcosm of so many other issues, there's toxic workplace allegations. You have a founder that stepped down. Just, you know, openings and closings, basically layoffs. I don't want to steal your point here, but please, please expound. No, you got the whole point. I mean, you know, a brewery that came up and around like, correct me if I'm wrong, but what seemed like pretty singular vision of its founder. And then, you know, that founder had to step away after they were accused of fostering a toxic work environment. And then when, uh, you know, CEO, Jennifer Briggs, also brew bounce person of the year, stepped in and really looked under the hood. She kind of saw like, all is not well here. So, you know, it's a lot of like, I don't want to say irresponsibility, but, uh, A pool, Jess. Okay, some financial irresponsibility. You know, a place that, I know how cliche and dumb this sounds, but a place that might've benefited from some more adults in the room.

[00:14:53] Zoe Licata: Yeah, but I think it also like kind of encapsulated a lot of the issues that we're seeing across beer. Like it's just, it has a little bit of what everybody had going on all at the same time.

[00:15:07] Jessica Infante: And a story with ties to stone. Oh yeah. Jacob was a former Stone employee. Oh, right. Yeah, he was like Stones like PR and social. And they are distributed by Stone. So, and now they've got their forever home with Maui. They're part of Craft Ohana. Maui gets some stateside production, which they needed. Modern Times gets to continue, which it needed. And I think it'll be interesting to see how this continues to play out next year.

[00:15:37] Sean McNulty: Maui in 2023 should be interesting now that they have that capacity stateside to see, are we going to see them? Do you go nationwide in 2023 with a craft brand? How do you do that? And where are they going to use that capacity to, what do they focus on and what they don't expand into maybe even more interesting to watch.

[00:15:57] Jessica Infante: Yeah. More planes for Garrett. That man, he must have, you know, status at every airline or on the one he probably does fly. Hawaiian Air he does, yeah.

[00:16:13] Zoe Licata: Right. What's the one that goes out of Hawaii? Whatever that one is, he's A-level status.

[00:16:19] Jessica Infante: Yeah, first on the plane, glass of champagne, I'm guessing.

[00:16:24] Sean McNulty: He gets the nice lay when he gets on the plane, you know.

[00:16:27] Zoe Licata: He has his own designated one.

[00:16:30] Sean McNulty: It has his name on it.

[00:16:32] Zoe Licata: They put it on, take it off every time.

[00:16:34] Sean McNulty: Gold-plated.

[00:16:34] Zoe Licata: Yes.

[00:16:39] Jessica Infante: Zoe, is there a story that didn't make our most read list that really stands out to you that you want to talk about?

[00:16:47] Zoe Licata: Well, honestly, and this is going to sound so annoying, but I can't believe all the hard Mountain Dew stuff was this year. From the beginning of just hearing how that was going to work. Because I know we've been in such a whole thing with it now, just figuring out how distribution does or doesn't work for it. All the wholesalers we just had yesterday wrote about how they're not they don't believe that big soda companies aren't using slotting fees and stuff and they're already existing relationships to get placement but like this year was also when we just even found out that hard like what hard Mountain Dew flavors were coming out and what states they were going in like Like so much happened this year that and we just didn't we didn't know how it was all going to work. And we're starting to see that.

[00:17:42] Jessica Infante: Yeah. And to be clear, our fourth most read story is that Baja Blast was revealed as the fourth Hard Mountain Dew flavor. But that's not at all what you are talking about, Zoe. No, I don't.

[00:17:54] Zoe Licata: Yeah, I don't think the flavor reveal was really the big thing. But yes, that's true.

[00:18:00] Sean McNulty: Do you see that out there in Iowa? That was one of the first states now that I'm thinking about it.

[00:18:06] Jessica Infante: Oh yeah. I see stacks of it. They almost give it away to you at a Casey's when you walk in the door like here. Would you like a hard Mountain Dew with your your pizza or gas purchase? No, I'm good. But no, actually, I mean, I have seen it discounted at my my Heidi store that I go to. I don't own the Heidi, unfortunately, but. I to Zoe's point about Hard Mountain Dew, I know it was announced in in August 2021. And I'll never forget where I was. I was in an ultrasound room and almost epileptic when I learned about it. So.

[00:18:52] Zoe Licata: Yep. Yeah, we were on it.

[00:18:55] Jessica Infante: Yeah. You you both held it down. It's just funny to think like, oh, that's that's where I was. You know, when I learned about Hard Mountain Dew, unfortunately, I can't forget, you know, where I was. So, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I just. I really think this is one of those products that would really benefit from going bigger on flavor. I know that at the time they were developing it, 100 calories, 5% alcohol was the rule of the day, but it's taken so long to get this to market more widely. And I think consumers have kind of moved on. And people who drink hard Mountain Dew probably don't give two figs that they're drinking a 100 calorie, 5% alcohol hard seltzer, right? Like, I think this would benefit from a makeover that juices it up a little bit. I complete agreement. And we know that Boston Beer absolutely loves to reformulate things. It is their favorite party trick. And if if they don't do it, it's a missed opportunity. And I think we were all thinking the same thing, which obviously, you know, this thing wasn't going to have caffeine in it when they launched it. But like the no sugar thing, like it. What does your Mountain Dew drinker want, you know? Yeah, this could be a mixer, but do you really want to dole your buzz? I don't know. 2023, Imperial Hard Mountain Dew. That's just regular Mountain Dew by the time.

[00:20:26] Sean McNulty: That's Mountain Dew with a shot of vodka in it, I think. But you also have Beast Unleashed coming. You know, the Monster product is going to start rolling out, which will be kind of, I think to me, that's kind of a comp or a competitor. Would you guys kind of see it in that same category?

[00:20:40] SPEAKER_??: For sure.

[00:20:40] Jessica Infante: Yeah, and that's 6% alcohol, so it's probably a little more substantive.

[00:20:45] Sean McNulty: Right. They're not doing that 100 calorie 5% thing, so I think that may need to be stepped up a bit to compete with that product next year.

[00:20:55] Jessica Infante: Yeah, and they've already got a whole rollout plan. I guess the tricky thing with hard Mountain Dew is going to be if they do reformulate and it is a higher ABV, then the regulatory calls are going to be even louder. I think that's what they're likely going to have to weigh if they go that route. And I realize we're just speculating because we don't know anything about that. But I mean, that seems to be where that consumer would be. you know, the Mountain Dew consumer, what they would want. But I don't know. I don't drink Mountain Dew unless I have to get it with my bebop combo. So all this Iowa lingo. I love it. You know, it's great. Yeah. And I guess, you know, Jess, is there a story this year that stands out to you that, you know, didn't make the list that you want to talk about? I mean, one thing that squeaked in that had further ramifications down the road is our number 10 most read story, which was that BBC documentary. For our purposes, the headline here was, BrewDog CEO James Watt's Accusations of Inappropriate Behavior Toward Female Taproom Staff. And that doc covered a lot more than that, but a lot of it was kind of based over in the UK. And most of those inappropriate behaviors in workplaces happened here in the US. So a lot more has happened with BrewDog since then. They opened their Vegas tap room, which I actually walked by when I was in Vegas for NACS learning about the Beast Unleashed. And it's like the far end of the strip. I don't know. But in the same week they lost their B Corp designation, which is a company that certifies businesses based on them having benevolent goals. So to lose that, I know Zoe covered it.

[00:22:50] Zoe Licata: Yeah, they denied that they lost it, but it seems like it was reviewed, possibly temporarily put on hold, and then they said they don't want it anymore. I feel like there's just so much going on with them in general. Like every time we write a story about them, we have to link to 10 different other recent stories, because it's just, I feel like we're constantly finding out new stuff. And for better or for worse, their CEO is not shy about putting his own comments out there, so.

[00:23:26] Jessica Infante: He's a lot like our buddy, Greg Cook, always be posting. To his credit, and I haven't checked in, Greg has, he seems to have been more of a man of his word in riding off into the sunset. Another thing that, you know, I keep forgetting happened this year was, well, Craft on Craft M&A here in New England, Mass Bay Brewing Company, parent of Harpoon, acquired Long Trail and Otter Creek, which are, you know, heritage Vermont craft beer brands that were really here for the beginnings of the craft movement. Yeah, I think what my pick would be would be all the wholesaler M&A and the consolidation within the middle tier, whether that's Reyes or KegOne or whomever it may be at this point, Redwood Capital. It's just a trend that we are going to continue to see as these mega wholesalers get even more mega. Yeah, Reyes had a huge year, went on a shopping spree towards the end, entered three new markets, which is three times what they usually do. Nashville, Austin, and Hawaii. I mean, I assume it's got to be real expensive to distribute beer in Hawaii. Last year we saw Anheuser-Busch sell off their AB1 branch, which is their wholly owned, to the Odom Corporation, and now the other big name in Hawaii beer distro is Reyes, so pretty big outfits. another as far as M&A goes, and that seems to be like a focus for us is Tilray acquiring Montauk and just building its own craft portfolio with Sweetwater and Greenflash and Alpine. So that's another one to watch. Although, you know, Montauk might be a special case since Irwin Simon is a neighbor For sure. Yeah. The way I kind of think M&A shook out this year was you saw these big international companies like Tilray and Sapporo make deals. Then we saw some of these craft-on-craft deals like MassBay and Long Trail. And then we saw some mergers of equals almost, like what we saw with Made by the Water and Foberg, where these smaller craft breweries are teaming up. And right this time last year, right at this time, we saw Um, bearded iris join Scott flaw in their indie brew platform. So I think we'll see more things like that safety in numbers for sure. Yeah. And I guess monster and canarchy, we didn't even talk about that. Although sort of. Sort of, sort of, sort of. Are they on this list? Well, it happened in January, but yeah. It did happen in January. They weren't the most read, but you know. Wow. Not a top 10 most read.

[00:26:08] Sean McNulty: Yeah. I would have thought, but no. Yeah.

[00:26:11] Jessica Infante: That's wild.

[00:26:12] Sean McNulty: Yeah. And then also a night shift into, you know, Jack's dad, not a partner, not a merger, but certainly a, you know, just your point of partnership to kind of, uh, you know, uh, protect yourself in the new business kind of way that that, that was another kind of development that was, That was the most surprising, one of the biggest surprises of the year that was like, A, what is this? And then B, where did this come from? For me, at least, that was a big one.

[00:26:39] Jessica Infante: Yeah. No, I think we all felt the same way about that. And Night Shift had been contract producing for a long time at both Jack's Abbey and Isle Brewery scale, but they had always made beer at home too. A lot too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:26:53] Sean McNulty: Let's hand the mic over to Sean and see how this goes. I have that. We have everybody heard that, right? It was officially handed over to me. So just, uh, for the record. All right, let's have some fun guys. We'll do a little look back and a little look forward. Put your, uh, greatest Carmack hats on Zoe. You have no idea what that reference is. I'm sure, but just Google Johnny Carson. You'll, you'll figure that out. And he was a former talk show host. All right, so let's go first with the Let's Make It Irish Award for the Best Boozy Brand Extension. Thoughts are Simply Spiked, we got Jack and Coke, we got Hard Mountain Dew, I'll throw in Monster's Beach Unleashed. How about a Fresca Mixed, Cantaritos Hard Sodas from Jarritos, or Woodbridge Wine Soda. Gotta have some wine soda.

[00:27:37] Zoe Licata: SimpliSpec, man, really, like, it kind of, it, any of these brand, boozy brand extension things, you're always kind of deciding, is this going to work well or not? But they even beat their own expectations. That thing just went off with a freaking bang.

[00:27:55] Jessica Infante: I think what's impressive about Simply Spiked is bringing new people into the category or, you know, people who are using Simply as a mixer before just converting them to Simply Spiked drinkers. Yeah. Props to them. I would like to give an honorable mention to Fresca Mixed just because a cute little 21, 22 year old, Jessica Infante was a big fan of Vodka, which was, you know, Fresca and Vodka. And some of these we haven't even been able to try it like the beast unleashed or Jackson Oak. Although I have a feeling we all know what a Jack and Coke tastes like.

[00:28:34] Sean McNulty: That's going to be. So please give us your report on that with your friends.

[00:28:41] Jessica Infante: Yeah, also get some Woodbridge wine soda.

[00:28:43] Sean McNulty: Yes, that would be a good. That'd be a fun darty right there. Let's go on to the, what I'll call the Fragile Award for Best Molson Coors Beer Merch. My favorite thing to write about this year, certainly, or never lacking a new, a new item to talk about. We've had Molson Beer Up, Mason Maple Syrup. We've had Limey Hot Shorts. We've had Miller Lite Beer Coal, Coors Lite Cholale Pops. Miller Lite beer drops, or of course, if you're going holiday, you can go with the High Life, the Christmas leg lamp or the Miller Lite keg tree stand. Any favorites of the bunch there?

[00:29:18] Zoe Licata: I forgot about the coal.

[00:29:22] Sean McNulty: Memorial Day weekend. That was it. Hey, come on. That was it. Big one. Yeah.

[00:29:27] Jessica Infante: Um, having worked in a beer point of sale and merch and giveaway items, I'm going to go with the liney hot shorts. Cause I feel like those were probably very difficult to execute.

[00:29:37] Sean McNulty: That was my pick too. Yeah. And just like, also this sounds like a bad idea, but I totally would want to have this. So yeah.

[00:29:44] Jessica Infante: I also have a pick for worse, but I would like my esteemed colleagues to share their favorites. You think chill lollipops is the worst, right? No, no, no. All right.

[00:29:55] Sean McNulty: Justin, do you have a pick?

[00:29:57] Jessica Infante: I don't know that I have a favorite here. I mean, the chill lollipops sound like an interesting idea. And I've seen the conversion rate numbers that they shared for drinkers who had them in a bar setting and how they bought more Coors Light. But I don't know, man. Maybe the beer call. I'll go with that. Practicality. a dishonorable mention to beer drops. Yeah, like, first of all, I don't think the people who make your beer appreciate people thinking that just a simple tiny like extract additive can replicate its flavor. And third of all, like, Adding drops to a drink in this climate?

[00:30:46] Sean McNulty: Not the best look.

[00:30:48] Jessica Infante: Yeah, that was a little questionable. I'd forgotten about beer drops. Thanks for bringing back my cringe.

[00:30:56] Zoe Licata: They're in like a mayonnaise looking container and that just grossed me out. Like it's in like a little squeegee. Yeah.

[00:31:03] Sean McNulty: We got some votes for hot shorts. Sorry, sorry, leg lamp for Christmas. It's a two derivative from Christmas story, I think. So we shall see. But my my my little light, you know, the the light buns idea is still out there. Everybody hot dog buns to go with your coal. I just, you know, Memorial Day 2023, guys, let's let's make this happen.

[00:31:22] Jessica Infante: So that just makes sense.

[00:31:23] Sean McNulty: It really does. I just don't you know, sometimes the ideas are just right there and Nobody goes, they make flashlights with Patrick Mahomes or something.

[00:31:34] Jessica Infante: Anheuser-Busch is probably going to take that idea now and use it as part of its celebration in Argentina for the World Cup, just to spite you.

[00:31:44] Sean McNulty: Listen, I'd be happy it's out there. It's just, you know, I just, it's for the taking. So we gotta, by the way, we have to follow up with them on what day the Bud's arriving on the shores, Justin, to make sure we're there to cover it.

[00:31:54] Jessica Infante: There's a press release out now.

[00:31:57] Sean McNulty: Oh, is there?

[00:31:57] Jessica Infante: Oh, is there?

[00:31:58] Sean McNulty: Yeah, it's very exciting.

[00:32:00] Jessica Infante: So, okay. Now, is it the same beer or did they just send the beer from the South American supply chain? Because I hope that's what happened.

[00:32:10] Sean McNulty: I would follow that Instagram account if there was an Instagram account of the journey of the beer.

[00:32:16] Jessica Infante: The beer is on a container ship.

[00:32:19] Sean McNulty: A little tracking device. Stuck in a canal.

[00:32:22] Jessica Infante: Hopefully it's not the Ever Given.

[00:32:23] Sean McNulty: Exactly. Stuck in the Suez Canal. All right. Let's, uh, we'll look ahead here, but that's enough looking back and then we've done enough. Let's, uh, let's get your expert. The opinions, everybody. So we will hold you to these next year when you don't invite me on for the year end podcast, I will still write about it in the newsletter. All right. Well, we have January's in front of us. So let's start with January. What brands will get Superbowl ads this year from ABI and who will Molson cores go with for their Superbowl ad. So let's say ABI has four. So let's just say if they have four slots, well, what four brands will they go with this year? But they've done, I think, up to six before, but they're no longer the official exclusive beer sponsor for the Super Bowl for TV. So that's what's changed. If you have four ads for ABI, what four spots do you pick? This is going to be a surprising one. All right. Are we doing a B or Molson Coors? Well, just let's go first. Then we'll go with Molson Coors after that.

[00:33:20] Jessica Infante: Yeah, I'm going to guess the AB puts an ad for Kona. OK, I like that as it's like Modelo or Corona Challenger, more so Corona Challenger.

[00:33:34] Sean McNulty: Right. That's the wild card. OK, Zoe, any any thoughts come to your mind? Will there be a Guy Fieri part two Bud Light, Heart Soda, whatever that was?

[00:33:47] Zoe Licata: I mean, I feel like yes, they probably will do not. I don't think Guy Fieri is coming back, but I feel like they probably will have to do some sort of salsa related thing if they want that thing, like a last ditch effort to save whatever is going on there. Interesting. Also like I feel like do they ever have they ever had like a natty light Super Bowl promo yet I feel like they really need to cash in on those that audience crossover budget beer.

[00:34:18] Jessica Infante: Yeah, so like a bush light.

[00:34:20] Sean McNulty: Right. Yeah. Bush Light. Yeah. I think it was that Milwaukee's Best did those like Will Ferrell ads one year that aired in like two markets across the country that were super weird or something. So you get these like, you know, smaller stuff, Zoe, but the big $6 million ad vibe doesn't generally cross the marker there. So, and they haven't really done, I guess, Goose kind of had one once, I guess, adjusting back to the craft division. Have they ever really gotten a, playing the Super Bowl, but I think Kona is actually, it's actually, it's actually a really smart idea. I mean, I think it's a smart play for what the priority they've given it, you know, or lip service, at least about 2023. Yeah.

[00:34:57] Zoe Licata: Oh, you know what, you know what, they're definitely going to. Not that I shouldn't say definitely, but you know what will likely I think neutralist will probably have some.

[00:35:06] Sean McNulty: Oh, good call Zoe. All right. Yeah. Could be your hard seltzer slot this year. Is that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Bon and Viv got a slide at one point, you know, when they launched too. So that would be the neutral maybe that really lines up with past thinking there too.

[00:35:19] Jessica Infante: I kind of liked that commercial with like the shark tank. It was like a like a shark tank of sharks and like Bon and Viv the mermaids.

[00:35:26] Sean McNulty: Didn't even know it was a seltzer. It was really like, you know, that was my award for what is this? Yeah.

[00:35:33] Jessica Infante: Anyway, my wildcard pick is Stella Artois. Well, I think I'm going off the same information that Justin is, is that we chatted with leaders of the high end and brewers collective, and they told us what their priorities were for next year, which includes. And then, uh, playing at their premium loggers of which they consider Kona big wave should be a part, even though it is a nail. Yep. All right. Yeah, and for Molson Coors, I think that it's a missed opportunity if they don't do the taste great, less filling reboot or whatever, just some take off of that during the Super Bowl, especially when did John Madden die? Right after Christmas last about a year ago. Yeah, roughly. Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if we see like a hologram John Madden or something interesting.

[00:36:26] Sean McNulty: OK, yeah, he got a big shout out during Thanksgiving this year. Football coverage and stuff. So yeah, he's definitely still. Looming large there in football land. Alright, Zoe, any thoughts on MC?

[00:36:38] Zoe Licata: No, come back to me alright.

[00:36:42] Sean McNulty: And Jess will leave it to you.

[00:36:45] Jessica Infante: Topo Chico. Oh, wow. Okay. Huge momentum with that brand right now. Why would you not ride this wave into becoming maybe the third largest hard seltzer in the country?

[00:36:55] Zoe Licata: Oh, you know what?

[00:36:56] Jessica Infante: Simply spiked.

[00:36:57] Zoe Licata: That's my pick. Simply spiked, I think, possibly.

[00:37:00] Sean McNulty: All right. I'm with Justin on the middle. Revive the classic, be a crowd pleaser, but you guys are going with the new product. So two to two, we shall see. where they land. All right. Just a reminder of January of 2022, a year ago, the year started off with beer sales down about 7%. Everything was down except non-alcohol, which was plus about 15% through most of the month. That was about through January 24th, I think. So we'll give it that. Does January start out down or up this year for beer sales versus 2022? Oh, sales? Sales. Yeah. Well, that's true. Sales versus volume because of inflation, but

[00:37:38] Jessica Infante: Yeah. I think the challenge is, yeah, with it down and the price up, even if it's up slightly, like as Jess pointed out with her death metal art, it's going to be, if it's up, it's hiding like some more problematic trends. Okay. Fair enough. It's masking it.

[00:37:56] Sean McNulty: We just had the brewery count this year or the preliminary brewery count for, uh, from the BA of 9,500 breweries. Will we have more or less breweries at the end of 2023? Slightly more.

[00:38:07] Zoe Licata: Yeah, but not by much from what Bart has told us.

[00:38:12] Jessica Infante: I think we're going to see a few more closings than we did this year.

[00:38:15] Zoe Licata: Yeah, yeah, I know. I think that that preliminary closing number that we got so far, I think is going to be a little bit higher if not a good chunk higher.

[00:38:26] Sean McNulty: Okay, but keeping keeping a little optimism for above and above the count from 2022. All right, just slightly outpacing, slightly, slightly outpacing. Okay, slightly up. Does hard seltzer stabilize at current levels? Or is there more pain ahead in 2023?

[00:38:41] Zoe Licata: Seltzer is such a weird one. It's not gonna, I don't think it's gonna, I think it's gonna be a lot more of the same, where it's not like the share sizes are going down, but there's still gonna be some hard seltzers that are growing. They're just not, they just are never gonna have that insane growth ever again.

[00:39:03] Jessica Infante: Never say never, Zoe. Don't crush those dreams too much. I think that it'll stabilize for some, but for the group as a whole, I think that it's more decline. And we'll see, this is just a wild speculative guess, I think we'll see one or two major brands fold, or major manufacturers fold their seltzer operations, and they won't be named White Claw or Truly. No, I think that's a good call. Yeah, and I don't think, I think these declines will probably continue apace, but I don't think they'll get larger. I think we're gonna, so right now, seltzer is 9.2.8% of the beer category, year to date through November 27th, according to our friends at IRI. And I think it'll get smaller, but not much. I don't think it'll dip below seven.

[00:39:59] Sean McNulty: Okay. I was going to go eight, but yeah. Okay.

[00:40:01] Jessica Infante: Just trying to give myself some cushion here.

[00:40:03] Sean McNulty: I like it. I like it. What month will the NBWA BPI finally cross 50 again? March. March.

[00:40:11] Jessica Infante: Okay. I was going to say April, but yeah.

[00:40:15] Zoe Licata: Yeah. Yeah. I feel like I'd push it to April.

[00:40:20] Jessica Infante: I see. I go with March for the madness. No, I think you're right with March because you've got inventory build too.

[00:40:27] Zoe Licata: Get that Saint Patty's Day volume going.

[00:40:30] Sean McNulty: Yeah, which was which did return pretty big last year and I believe that was the month across 50 last year so. Let's keep a good, a good thought out for March. This is a bigger question, but I guess going forward, 2022 was the new comp year for all numbers versus 2019 at this point, right? In 2023, we're not, I mean, I think that's coming out of Bruton, Bruton live. That seemed to be like, just kind of forget 2019 at this point and start building your business. I think now we have a full year of comps for 2022, which is kind of a normal ish years we're going to get. Is that kind of your sentiment as well in terms of like, what's a fair analysis at this point? Burn it all down and start anew.

[00:41:10] Jessica Infante: Yeah, just salt the earth.

[00:41:13] Zoe Licata: And I'm sure I feel like we're never going to not never. I feel like we'll still have another year or two of people still trying to to say that there's covid related things going on and we'll compare to 2019. But I mean, like even Bart told us, he's like, it's not we're past this point now. There are different things going on.

[00:41:34] Sean McNulty: And Mary from Whole Foods is the same sentiment. So you got your large beer buyer and your BA economist, both kind of with that sentiment. So I was like, okay, I think anybody else, anybody who's trying to pull that or pull any kind of comms to tell a story, I think you're really stretching to tell your story. And to Bart's point about revenue increases, it's like, yeah, you better be making more revenue. Your beer prices went up. 11%. So anybody trying to pull that narrative of revenue versus 2019 is really searching for something, I feel like. So that will also be something to watch. All right. Two more quick questions and we'll get on to a fun pop quiz to round out. Will Justin survive BrewTalk Live's next November or will it be a Jess and Zoe day on day two? Survive.

[00:42:23] Jessica Infante: I think he's going to make it.

[00:42:25] Sean McNulty: Yeah.

[00:42:25] Jessica Infante: Yeah. I feel good about that.

[00:42:28] Sean McNulty: Justin, how are you feeling about that? I'm good. Yeah. You got it. All right. Going to have a two year old next year, man. I don't know. That's true.

[00:42:38] Jessica Infante: That's the whole level. I'm surviving. I'm not thriving. I think that's been the theme of my year.

[00:42:51] Sean McNulty: Justin, a question for you. Will Jess and Zoe say hello to me in New York City when they visit next year?

[00:42:57] Jessica Infante: Jess, yes. Zoe, no.

[00:42:59] Sean McNulty: All right.

[00:43:01] Jessica Infante: Jess is nice. Zoe holds grudges because she can't let the Boston, New York thing go.

[00:43:07] Sean McNulty: She can't meet a New York fan in New York. Yeah. All right. Yeah. Fine. I'll go to June Shine by myself, Zoe. It's all good. But you know what? If they'll let me in, I'm not sure if I fit the dress code, but I will. I'll give it a shot.

[00:43:20] Zoe Licata: The theme of the back is surf bungalow, so I think you can wear whatever you want to do.

[00:43:26] Sean McNulty: My Rockaway Beach chic look? Okay, I'll give it a shot. All right, since ABI still owns all the breweries, let's see if you guys know which one. There are 13 breweries. Which one's the biggest? And let's go. Which one's biggest? Which one's smallest? Do you guys who can tell me that? These are 2021. These are 2021 sales. The 2022 numbers are out yet. So based on 2021 Brewer's Collective Brands. Smallest is Platform.

[00:43:56] Jessica Infante: Largest is. It's got to be Goose or Kona. I was going to say Kona. Or Elysian, probably Kona. Yeah, that's that's the three. Zoe, vote.

[00:44:11] Zoe Licata: This isn't where I tap out. I'm not.

[00:44:15] Sean McNulty: I have 600,000 barrels in my head and I don't just for the wind. Yes, very nice. 660,000 barrels in 2021 for CBA Kona. So that was it. Gooses, but was 465 in second place, so not even really close. And then Elysian did 330 and third. So where is Golden Road on the 13 list here? Four. Yeah, four or five. Justin, two for two. Fourth place, 230,000 barrels. Let's see. Did Wicked Weed make over or under 100,000 barrels in 2021 over herself? Over?

[00:44:57] Jessica Infante: I'm going to take the under.

[00:44:59] Sean McNulty: Okay. Sorry, Jess, you win that one. 97. Very close, Justin.

[00:45:05] Jessica Infante: I'm sure they crossed it in 22.

[00:45:08] Sean McNulty: Yeah. And how much was Shock Top down in 2021?

[00:45:13] Jessica Infante: Do numbers go that high?

[00:45:16] Sean McNulty: Poor Shock Top.

[00:45:17] Jessica Infante: The limit does not exist.

[00:45:19] Sean McNulty: Can you make negative beer? I will tell you they had the biggest drop of anybody on the list.

[00:45:26] Jessica Infante: It's probably like 40%.

[00:45:32] Sean McNulty: It was only said 17%, so I think that's probably because it's already down to 200,000 barrels.

[00:45:40] Jessica Infante: Well, so the IRI numbers for shock top declines are always much, much, much larger, but they probably have a ton of shock top placements at all sorts of venues, airports.

[00:45:53] Sean McNulty: Yeah, that's true. Okay. Very good. Good job, guys. Still sizable. You said 200,000 barrels? This is 2021, so we'll see what 2020... Yeah, but 200,000 barrels is what's on the list here.

[00:46:06] Jessica Infante: It's nothing to seize at. We talk about how it's down, and I joke, but it's... Yeah, that's... That's like a top 25 craft brewer. Right. It's like we talked about breweries crossing the 100,000 barrel mark, and here, Shock Top's got 200,000, but when you've gone from... Were they a million barrel brand at one point?

[00:46:31] Sean McNulty: Darn near close. I want to have 800 somewhere in my head, but I don't, I don't know, but, uh, it could have been, you know, I mean, I wouldn't, if you told me that I wouldn't be shocked. I mean, blue moon's always been over 2 million.

[00:46:41] Jessica Infante: So if it was, you know, half that business, I mean, 2017, they did 555,000. So, I mean, got it. Yeah. But I mean, that's the last number I have right in front of me, but it's, that doesn't mean that. They didn't do more. It's just the declines have been so steep from where they were that. Yeah. Yeah. That brand was really just kind of catapulted into existence through the sheer force of category management. And here we are with with like everybody with wheat fever, you know, like. Right. And that's true. It's not your moment. Shocked. Yeah. Well, I mean, like all the popular fruited wheat beers from when I was Zoe's age are in like decline or dead, you know, like all those Sam Adams beers, like Cherry Wheat and Blackberry Whit and like Magic Hat number nine, like.

[00:47:35] Sean McNulty: Yeah. It's different era, different era.

[00:47:37] Jessica Infante: Different era.

[00:47:38] Sean McNulty: Different era. The tastes are still there. So. Uh, I wanted a positive note here, so I'll give you to Jess, your favorite beer or three beers you might've had in 2022. What did, what did you enjoy most, uh, drinking that come to mind? We won't hold you to it, but just whatever comes to mind right now.

[00:47:53] Jessica Infante: So I thought about this when you mentioned that you were going to ask us, because like, good. I can't remember. Uh, it's a tough one, but I will say my top three beers this year were Czerny Pivo at Notch, which is their, uh, Czech black lager. One of my faves. I love a good black lager. I also had the extreme pleasure of visiting Dovetail when I was out in Chicago in the spring, Heather Pilsner, which was lovely. And then my third favorite beer of the year is more circumstantial than the beer itself, but I discovered to my delight that on the pier on the boardwalk in Seaside Heights, New Jersey, there's now a bar and they've made it all so you can just walk around with a beer. My cousin was visiting with his kids who wanted to go on rides and I got a Miller Lite and just strolled around. Nice. It was a joy.

[00:48:43] Sean McNulty: Go Jersey.

[00:48:44] Jessica Infante: Yeah. Thought you'd like that.

[00:48:46] Sean McNulty: Yeah. Zoe, uh, any three favorite beverages you had this year?

[00:48:52] Zoe Licata: It's nothing new and exciting, but you know, yeah. I had a lot of athletic upside down this year. That was really my like, I'm always the driver anyway, so I really needed like a non-ox this year and that one really came through. Alligash White, most times I was going out was definitely happening. Third, oh boy. Oh, you know what? Yes. Mention to the Inbounds we went to and I had the beer that I dream about now all the time. It was like a peanut butter honey blonde. That one was the highlight of my year.

[00:49:36] Jessica Infante: Wow. We were there for it. Wow. Yeah. Big honor for Inbound. And I would also like to give Inbound a shout out for hosting Dog Picture Day in their tap room. Easily the best taproom promotion I've seen.

[00:49:51] Zoe Licata: Very dog friendly place. There's a lot there when we were there too. Shout out to Minneapolis and Justin.

[00:49:57] Sean McNulty: What do you got? Force juice force and juice force. But which variants, Justin, is it the imperial than the regular original for me? Oh, the only original only now.

[00:50:07] Jessica Infante: All right. But for real, like, well, I did enjoy juice for the record. Exactly. A dad. You can't really drink a lot all the time because you never know when you're going to get called into duty. So much like Zoe, I had to have some non-alcohol options and athletic freeway of hazy IPA was my jam.

[00:50:29] Sean McNulty: Nice. All right. I will third, the athletic, uh, double your, uh, upside down Zoe. I think, you know, that I drink, you know, a lot of any beers just for lunch and that like cold beer after like in a hot, in a hot summer day, like at lunch is like, most refreshing thing that I was looking forward to in the summertime. Like it's a great cold beer and yeah, I will give a shout out just to be a tier of beers, but just going a little, put a little Jersey in there, but just the, the loggers that came this year, just everything they know they're known for their barrel-edge stouts and surely the, you know, the IPAs, they put a lot out, but that their logger program is everything they put out this year is just, you know, So good 13, 13 play to check logger. I have last week, just stuff that just, you know, small batch stuff. It's not what they're known for now, but moves, but they still do it. And they still, you know, explore quite a bit of it. And it's always, it's, you know, they have a lot of green tank there. They do it. Right. So shout out to them. And then a shout out to, you know, Vinnie and Natalie for Pliny the Younger, which was very generous of them to send her away. That beer lived up to my memory of it. And I enjoyed that beer thoroughly in a very special moment, had my special time and I enjoyed it thoroughly. So a shout out to Pliny the Younger for 2022. So.

[00:51:44] Jessica Infante: Yeah, that was fantastic. I also have to shout out Single Speed Brewing for sending me Gable, which was their lager beer. It tasted great. It just hit me right. So I'll throw that into my list as well.

[00:51:58] Sean McNulty: Awesome. Go craft beer. Yay. Go craft beer.

[00:52:01] Jessica Infante: Some people still drink it. Justin's been really good at manifesting things lately. Like he'll say, Hey, we need to hear back from this person. And then all of a sudden the email shows up. So I'm hoping that you just manifested 2023 into the year of craft loggers.

[00:52:14] Sean McNulty: Yeah. Let's do it. All right. Send the mojo out. All right, Justin, throwing the mic back to you to round us out here.

[00:52:20] Jessica Infante: Yeah, well, with that, thanks to all you do, Sean, for us The Brewbound. Thanks for joining us and hopping on at the last moment here. Thanks to Jess and Zoe, as always, for being awesome. Thanks to our audio team and thanks to all of you for listening. We will be back next week. Got one more episode for the year and then we'll be back next year. So, but we will have a fresh episode next week. So stay tuned for that. And until then, we'll talk to you later.