Brewbound Podcast: The Most-Read Beer Biz Stories of 2022

[00:00:00] Jessica Infante: Heading to CBC? Kick things off the day before The Brewbound's meetup at Love City Brewing in Philly, Sunday, April 19th from 5 to 7 p.m. Connect with beer industry leaders, grab a drink, and catch up with The Brewbound team. It's free to attend and walking distance from the convention center. Head The Brewbound.com slash lovecity.rsvp. And don't forget to catch The Brewbound team at booth 956 during CBC. Welcome to The Brewbound Holiday Party! Hello everyone. Welcome to The Brewbound podcast. My name is Justin Kendall and I'm the editor The Brewbound and I'm joined by Jessica Infante, the managing editor The Brewbound. What's up, Jess?

[00:00:52] The Brewbound: Hey, Methin. How are you?

[00:00:54] Jessica Infante: I'm doing well. I mean, we're in a festive mood because this is our little holiday party here.

[00:00:59] The Brewbound: This is our holiday party and it was just my birthday.

[00:01:01] Jessica Infante: I guess this counts as a Daugherty because we're doing it in the morning. So who else would join a Daugherty? But Zoe Licata, welcome to the Daugherty. I've ruined the word, right?

[00:01:12] Stone Brewing: No, no, I think it was all used appropriately.

[00:01:14] Jessica Infante: OK, well, you know, when a 45 year old man starts saying dirty, it might be the death of the word. Also joining us is a special The Brewbound guest, Sean McDulty, who writes our weekend insider newsletters. What's up, Sean? How are you doing, Justin? Good to see you. See, we don't hate you. We invited you to the holiday party.

[00:01:33] Brewers Association: You know, just, it's fine. You know, I get, you know, favorite reporters. I've never quite mentioned, not that I'm a reporter, but you know, I do have a presence on the The Brewbound. So come on, man, you know, at least acknowledge I could be fourth place. That's all I'm saying. We don't have places here, you know. I know mine, so it's all good.

[00:01:52] Jessica Infante: Yeah. You're a solid third between 2A and 2B. I'm often told that. I don't even know who one would be. So anyway, this is our you're in wrap up episode, we're going to go over some of the most read stories of the year. And then we're going to do something probably ill advised and turn things over to Sean and let him do the the hosting gig a little bit. Let's let's dive into some of the most read stories of the year. And unsurprisingly, Top spot goes to Stone Brewing being sold to Sapporo, a story that Jess and Zoe were up at two in the morning to get that news out first, just waiting for that Japanese stock exchange to close. This was the biggest story of the year and actually across a lot of our most read stories, Stone featured pretty heavily. And for starters, the biggest story, the sale, $165 million. The brewery that had vowed to never sell out to the man ended up selling to Sapporo.

[00:03:00] The Brewbound: Honestly, to me, one of the most notable things is what didn't happen. Nobody was all that outraged about this. You know, if this sale had happened five to eight years ago, people would be screaming bloody murder at how mad they were. But we didn't really see that this time.

[00:03:17] Jessica Infante: And it really dissipated. I noticed this around the time Bell sold was that there wasn't really an outrage then. And even in New Belgium, I don't, I feel like that, that there wasn't really that, oh man, never drinking that beer again. I mean, they're probably, you could probably dig up a few like Twitter posts for that or Facebook posts, but really are we in the era of eh. This is just how it is.

[00:03:44] The Brewbound: Yeah. Like you remember Wicked Weed sold to Anheuser-Busch.

[00:03:48] Brewers Association: Yeah. Wicked Weed was like the peak of this. I feel like that was like peak outrage of the sale. And I feel like that is what took the sales out or the wind out of the sails for Craft enthusiast? I don't know. You know, and it's funny to think about Wicked Weed now where, I mean, who even really, you know, kind of talks about that brand before, but it's like, oh my God, you're ruining craft beer. And now the biggest ones in the field have, you know.

[00:04:13] The Brewbound: Yeah, all people like boycotted a festival of theirs. Like there were other contingency festivals held to get all that. Like it was crazy. It was a mess.

[00:04:22] Brewers Association: Yeah, you're right.

[00:04:23] Jessica Infante: That that likely was the peak of outrage. Yeah.

[00:04:27] Brewers Association: So Zoe, is this all foreign to you? This is Zoe.

[00:04:31] The Brewbound: Zoe was not a legal drinker at the time.

[00:04:33] Jessica Infante: It's always like, why would anybody give a shit about craft brewery selling or like care that much? Like, sorry about your good luck of, you know, receiving the dollars in exchange for your hard work.

[00:04:45] Stone Brewing: I was going through the replies to when we tweeted out the story the other day to just like see what people's general responses were. And there was a handful of like quote-unquote outrage, but just kind of like half-hearted nose or disappointment. And most of it was just general like acceptance, I think, or like unsurprised reactions.

[00:05:07] Jessica Infante: Which I guess the reason that it would be surprising in this regard is that co-founder of Stone, Greg Cook, was among the most devout craft beer evangelists that there were. movie documentary called Craft Beer Jesus or Beer Jesus, whatever, which gets into maybe another reason that they ended up selling, which was a ill-advised German brewery. But that leads us to another of our most read stories, and that was Greg's farewell post that he put out there that was nearly 2,500 words in length, quoted Metallica and Roman poet, I'm going to mess up the name, Herculetus. Did I get this wrong, Jess?

[00:06:00] The Brewbound: Heraclitus? I don't know. I only took like a year's worth of Latin. Couldn't really tell you.

[00:06:06] Brewers Association: I like the Nutty Professor version there. Herculetus. I think that's the way to go, Jess. Let's lean into that.

[00:06:12] The Brewbound: That this many people read this piece makes me feel better about it. Because I remember writing it at the time and was like, Does this matter? Am I paying way too much attention to Greg's blog slash diary, but the people were interested.

[00:06:26] Jessica Infante: Yes, they were definitely interested and Greg called it probably the hardest thing he had ever done. And you got to think that maybe it was that again, Stone featured heavily into our coverage of 2022 and for another reason, another top story. And that gets us to the four years in the making trademark infringement trial or lawsuit that finally went to trial in 2022 back in March. And that was our ninth most read story, and it was a jury award stone, $56 million in its case against Molson Coors. And that, of course, relates to Molson Coors 2017 relaunch of Keystone Light, the rebrand that split the words key and stone and ended up with a very memorable Greg Cook video announcing the lawsuit. this was the resolution that we'd all been waiting for.

[00:07:24] Brewers Association: I think that was the most, that was the most individual pieces written about story, the volume of things in that story. I mean, I just, you know, I've just kept going and I'm like, Oh my God, just that's a story that wouldn't end. That's my like award for that story of the year. Cause even when the case was decided, it wasn't decided. And then, you know, there was the whole sycamore thing that kind of came into it too. And they sued stone, you know, for essentially stealing a tagline or borrowing a tagline that they had trademarked. That story just kept going. I think legally, probably, we all got smarter in a legal sense. We may be all paralegals by now. I learned a lot, but that was a long story. That was a six-month or at least a five-month endeavor, really.

[00:08:10] The Brewbound: Yeah. Escondido kept us real busy this year.

[00:08:14] Jessica Infante: Yeah. Yeah. And I think the trial, the big thing was a lot of revelations coming out of that, whether that was Stone arguing that they had seen a 20 percent decline since the relaunch of Keystone Light, which Molson Coors attorneys argued, well, Kraft is down since then, which is not unfair, or that, you know, Oh boy, the brewery considered a sale. You don't say. So it's interesting that the trial and everything around that didn't do anything to ultimately stop the brewery from being sold for 165 million, which did not include the distribution business. So also on our list of most read stories, and you can go back and check these out, but the Brewers Association's annual list of the top 50 craft breweries by volume, for me, the standouts in that were, there's always jockeying, but the top of the list largely stays the same. But it's always, you know, who makes that leap and athletic. The nonalcoholic beer maker made a huge leap. They jumped up to from number sixty five in twenty twenty to number twenty seven in twenty twenty one. And they crossed the one thousand one hundred thousand barrel threshold.

[00:09:44] Brewers Association: Yeah. And there they said they crossed that mark in August of this year. So the next year's number, I mean, I'm curious to see how high they get for the 2022 year. So, I mean, there's only bigger things ahead with that brand.

[00:09:57] The Brewbound: Yeah. And they've done so much work on their breweries that they've got so much capacity there.

[00:10:02] Brewers Association: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:10:03] The Brewbound: Tons of runway. Somebody else that made a pretty big leap this year was Fiddlehead Brewing, who is our craft brewery of the year. They leapt 37 spots to squeeze in at number 49. And we've talked about them so much in this space because, you know, we were happy to have them The Brewbound Live and, you know, as one of our award winners, but yeah, they do all of that on the back of a craft beer only portfolio in a pretty tight geographic market.

[00:10:31] Stone Brewing: All like only cold distribution, like that was, yeah. When that list came out was kind of the first time we were like, Ooh, what are you up to Fiddlehead? We should probably be chatting to you.

[00:10:44] Jessica Infante: And pickleball courts coming. Yeah, pickleball courts, of course, for legit. They are adding pickleball courts.

[00:10:52] The Brewbound: So I need to find a pickleball related Christmas gift for my mom in the next like three days because it's like all she does now.

[00:10:59] Brewers Association: You should borrow a T-shirt from the ABI sponsored team, Jess, that they own. Maybe.

[00:11:04] Stone Brewing: Yeah, there you go.

[00:11:05] Brewers Association: That's it. Combine both little from those, some from the, from your daughter, from your beer, beer, biz daughter, combining, combining all of your loves. She'll love that. She likes my culture.

[00:11:15] Jessica Infante: There you go. How does she feel about busy? Aren't they the official sponsor of major league, whatever.

[00:11:23] The Brewbound: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:11:27] Jessica Infante: Missed opportunity.

[00:11:29] SPEAKER_??: Yeah.

[00:11:29] The Brewbound: Yeah, you're missing the 65 and up bracket there, hard seltzer. Reconsider.

[00:11:35] Brewers Association: Runway, white space. There you go.

[00:11:38] Jessica Infante: Another story and another transaction, although a very atypical one that was among the most read stories was the Modern Times auction. And the result of that, which wasn't really the result, which was Anaheim's Brewery X being the quote unquote winning bidder for $20 million that they subsequently never paid. And Maui ended up acquiring Modern Times for half that.

[00:12:06] The Brewbound: Speaking of stories that never end, this was certainly one of them. I had the honor of being included in our friends at Rabobanks and in Year in Review podcast where we do like a story draft where we go around and everybody picks what they think was the most important. And I picked this whole saga because I think it kind of, it's like a microcosm of a lot of different issues in craft beer right now. Some inflated valuations. getting out over your skis on taproom expansions.

[00:12:37] Jessica Infante: What do you think is over your skis with a pool, Jess and Anna?

[00:12:42] Brewers Association: How did we not know about this? This is my own disappointment of the year of like, how am I just learning about this now? How could you call that access?

[00:12:51] The Brewbound: I'm sorry, that is totally reasonable. And what every taproom needs and what everybody wants to do when they're drinking, you know, I double IPAs is put on a swimsuit and get in a pool with everybody. Yeah, that's high on my list of things to do.

[00:13:08] Jessica Infante: That would be a perfect Seltzeria like three years ago.

[00:13:13] The Brewbound: Yes. You know what? It's on the market because they had to give it up. So Seltzer brands in Southern California. Well, the Seltzeria- Grab your way right there.

[00:13:22] Brewers Association: Isn't Trulia's in Southern California?

[00:13:25] The Brewbound: Yeah, Truly's in LA.

[00:13:26] Brewers Association: Yeah, there you go. Just a free idea, guys. Not a free space, though, as Zoe will attest. And we all know what a stalking horse bid is now. That was new to me. Did Zoe, did you ever heard of a stalking bid report before? No, absolutely not.

[00:13:45] Stone Brewing: No, I learned a lot through this thing. One, never, you know, breathe a sigh of relief when you think something is over, because it's probably not over. I remember when the auction ended and we finally wrote that story, we're like, tentatively, we're like, okay, we finally are at the end of this and we had so much further to go. Just kidding.

[00:14:09] Jessica Infante: Well, and to go back to Jess and Zoe point about this being a microcosm of so many other issues, there's toxic workplace allegations. You have a founder that stepped down. Just, you know, openings and closings, basically layoffs. I don't want to steal your point here, but please, please expound.

[00:14:34] The Brewbound: No, you got the whole point. I mean, you know, a brewery that came up and around like, correct me if I'm wrong, but what seemed like pretty singular vision of its founder. And then that founder had to step away after they were accused of fostering a toxic work environment. And then when CEO Jennifer Briggs, also Brewbound's person of the year, stepped in and really looked under the hood, she kind of saw all is not well here. So it's a lot of, I don't want to say irresponsibility, but

[00:15:09] Jessica Infante: A pool, Jess.

[00:15:10] The Brewbound: Okay, some financial irresponsibility. You know, a place that, I know how cliche and dumb this sounds, but a place that might've benefited from some more adults in the room.

[00:15:21] Stone Brewing: Yeah, but I think it also like kind of encapsulated a lot of the issues that we're seeing across beer. Like it's just, has a little bit of what everybody had going on all at the same time.

[00:15:35] Jessica Infante: And a story with ties to stone.

[00:15:39] The Brewbound: Oh yeah.

[00:15:39] Jessica Infante: Jacob was a former Stone employee. Oh, right.

[00:15:42] The Brewbound: Yeah, he was like Stones like PR and social. And they are distributed by Stone. So, and now they've got their forever home with Maui. They're part of Kraft Ohana. Maui gets some stateside production, which they needed. Modern Times gets to continue, which it needed. And I think it'll be interesting to see how this continues to play out next year.

[00:16:05] Brewers Association: Yeah. Maui in 2023 should be interesting now that they have that capacity stateside to see, you know, are we going to see them do how, you know, do you go nationwide in 2023 with a craft brand? You know, how do you do that and where are they going to use that capacity to what, what do they focus on and where the, what they don't expand into maybe even more interesting to watch.

[00:16:25] The Brewbound: Yeah.

[00:16:27] Jessica Infante: More planes for Garrett, but that man, he must have. you know, status at every airline or or on the one. He probably does fly. Why? And here he does.

[00:16:41] Stone Brewing: Yeah, right. What's the one that goes out of Hawaii that whatever that one is, he's a level status.

[00:16:48] Jessica Infante: Yeah. First on the plane, glass of champagne, I'm guessing all he gets.

[00:16:52] Brewers Association: He gets the nice lay when he gets on the plane, you know, the right own designated one. It has a name on it. Exactly.

[00:17:00] Stone Brewing: Put it on, take it off every time.

[00:17:02] Brewers Association: gold plated.

[00:17:03] Stone Brewing: Yes.

[00:17:07] Jessica Infante: Zoe, is there a story that didn't make our most read list that really stands out to you that you want to talk about?

[00:17:16] Stone Brewing: Well, honestly, and this is going to sound so annoying, but I can't believe all the hard Mountain Dew stuff was this year. From the beginning of just hearing how that was going to work. Because I know we've been in such a whole thing with it now, just figuring out how distribution does or doesn't work for it. All the wholesalers we just had yesterday wrote about how they're not they don't believe that big soda companies aren't using slotting fees and stuff and they're already existing relationships to get placement but like this year was also when we just even found out that hard like what hard Mountain Dew flavors were coming out and what states they were going in like like so much happened this year that and we just didn't, we didn't know how it was all going to work. And we're starting to see that.

[00:18:10] The Brewbound: Yeah. And to be clear, our fourth most read story is that Baja Blast was revealed as the fourth Hard Mountain Dew flavor, but that's not at all what you are talking about Zoe.

[00:18:21] Stone Brewing: No, I don't. Yeah. I don't think the flavor reveal was really the big thing, but yes, that's true.

[00:18:28] Brewers Association: Do you see that out there in Iowa? That was one of the first states now that I'm thinking about it.

[00:18:35] Jessica Infante: I see stacks of it. They almost give it away to you at a Casey's when you walk in the door like hair. Would you like a hard Mountain Dew with your your pizza or gas purchase? No, I'm good. But no, actually, I mean, I have seen it discounted at my my Heidi store that I go to. I don't own the Heidi, unfortunately, but. I to Zoe's point about Hard Mountain Dew, I know it was announced in in August 2021. And I'll never forget where I was. I was in an ultrasound room and almost epileptic when I learned about it. So.

[00:19:20] Stone Brewing: Yep. Yeah, we're on it.

[00:19:23] Jessica Infante: Yeah. You you both held it down. It's just funny to think like, oh, that's that's where I was. You know, when I learned about Hard Mountain Dew, unfortunately, I can't forget, you know, where I was. So, yeah.

[00:19:36] The Brewbound: Yeah. I mean, I just. I really think this is one of those products that would really benefit from going bigger on flavor. I know that at the time they were developing it, 100 calories, 5% alcohol was the rule of the day, but it's taken so long to get this to market more widely. And I think consumers have kind of moved on and people who drink hard Mountain Dew probably don't give two figs that they're drinking a 100 calorie, 5% alcohol hard seltzer, right? Like I think this would benefit from a makeover that juices it up a little bit.

[00:20:10] Jessica Infante: I complete agreement. And we know that Boston Beer absolutely loves to reformulate things.

[00:20:17] The Brewbound: It is their favorite party trick.

[00:20:18] Jessica Infante: And if if they don't do it, it's a missed opportunity. And I think we were all thinking the same thing, which obviously, you know, this thing wasn't going to have caffeine in it when they launched it. But like the no sugar thing, like it What what is your Mountain Dew drink or want you know like I? Yeah, this could be a mixer, but do you really want to dole your buzz? I don't know.

[00:20:46] The Brewbound: So 2023 Imperial Hard Mountain Dew.

[00:20:50] Jessica Infante: Oh, that's just regular Mountain Dew by the time.

[00:20:55] Brewers Association: That's Mountain Dew with a shot of vodka in it, I think. Yeah. But you also have Beast Unleashed coming. You know, the Monster product is going to start rolling out, which will be kind of, I think to me, that's kind of a comp in the in that or a competitor. Would you guys kind of see it in that same? Sure.

[00:21:08] The Brewbound: Yeah, and that's 6% alcohol, so it's probably a little more substantive.

[00:21:13] Brewers Association: Right, they're not doing that 100 calorie 5% thing, so I think that may need to be stepped up a bit to compete with that product next year.

[00:21:23] The Brewbound: Yeah, and they've already got a whole rollout plan.

[00:21:27] Jessica Infante: I guess the tricky thing with Hard Mountain Dew is going to be if they do reformulate and it is a higher ABV, then the regulatory calls are going to be even louder. I think that's what they're likely going to have to weigh if they go that route. I realize we're just speculating because we don't know anything about that, but that seems to be where that consumer would be. the Mountain Dew consumer what they would want. But I don't know. I don't drink Mountain Dew unless I have to get it with my bebop combo. So all this Iowa lingo. I love it. You know, it's great. Yeah. And I guess, you know, Jess, is there a story this year that stands out to you that, you know, didn't make the list that you want to talk about?

[00:22:20] The Brewbound: I mean, one thing that squeaked in that had further ramifications down the road is our number 10 most read story, which was that BBC documentary. For our purposes, the headline here was BrewDog CEO James Watt's Accusations of Inappropriate Behavior Toward Female Taproom Staff. And that doc covered a lot more than that, but a lot of it was kind of based over in the UK. And most of those inappropriate behaviors in workplaces happened here in the US. So a lot more has happened with BrewDog since then. They opened their Vegas tap room, which I actually walked by when I was in Vegas for NACS learning about the Beast Unleashed. And it's like the far end of the strip. I don't know. But in the same week they lost their B Corp designation, which is a company that certifies businesses based on them having benevolent goals. So to lose that, I know Zoe covered it.

[00:23:18] Stone Brewing: Yeah, they denied that they lost it, but it seems like it was reviewed, possibly temporarily put on hold, and then they said they don't want it anymore. I feel like there's just so much going on with them in general. Like every time we write a story about them, we have to link to 10 different other recent stories because it's just, I feel like we're constantly finding out new stuff. And for better or for worse, their CEO is not shy about putting his own comments out there, so.

[00:23:54] The Brewbound: He's a lot like our buddy, Greg Cook, always be posting.

[00:23:57] Jessica Infante: To his credit, and I haven't checked in, Greg has. He seems to have been more of a man of his word in riding off into the sunset.

[00:24:05] The Brewbound: Another thing that, you know, I keep forgetting happened this year was, well, Craft on Craft M&A here in New England. Mass Bay Brewing Company, parent of Harpoon, acquired Long Trail and Otter Creek, which are, you know, heritage Vermont craft beer brands that were really here for the beginnings of the craft movement.

[00:24:25] Jessica Infante: Yeah, I think what my pick would be would be all the wholesaler M&A and the consolidation within the middle tier, whether that's Reyes or KegOne or whomever it may be at this point, Redwood Capital. It's just a trend that we are going to continue to see as these mega wholesalers get even more mega.

[00:24:48] The Brewbound: Yeah, Reyes had a huge year, went on a shopping spree towards the end, entered three new markets, which is three times what they usually do.

[00:24:56] Jessica Infante: Nashville, Austin, and Hawaii.

[00:24:59] The Brewbound: I mean, I assume it's got to be real expensive to distribute beer in Hawaii. Last year we saw Anheuser-Busch sell off their AB1 branch, which is their wholly owned, to the Odom Corporation, and now the other big name in Hawaii beer distro is Reyes, so pretty big outfits.

[00:25:19] Jessica Infante: Another as far as M&A goes, and that seems to be like a focus for us is Tilray acquiring Montauk and just building its own craft portfolio with Sweetwater and Greenflash and Alpine. So that's another one to watch. Although, you know, Montauk might be a special case since Irwin Simon is a neighbor

[00:25:46] The Brewbound: For sure. Yeah. The way I kind of think M&A shook out this year was you saw these big international companies like Tilray and Sapporo make deals. Then we saw some of these craft-on-craft deals like MassBay and Long Trail. And then we saw some mergers of equals almost, like what we saw with Made by the Water and Foberg. where these smaller craft breweries are teaming up. And, you know, right this time last year, right at this time, we saw Bearded Iris join Scott Flaw in their indie brew platform. So I think we'll see more things like that. Safety in numbers for sure.

[00:26:21] Jessica Infante: Yeah. And I guess monster and canarchy. We didn't even talk about that. Although sort of.

[00:26:26] The Brewbound: Sort of, sort of, sort of. Are they on this list?

[00:26:28] Jessica Infante: Well, it happened in January, but yeah.

[00:26:30] The Brewbound: It did happen in January.

[00:26:32] Jessica Infante: They weren't the most read, but you know.

[00:26:34] The Brewbound: Wow. Not a top 10 most read.

[00:26:36] Jessica Infante: Yeah.

[00:26:37] Brewers Association: I would have thought, but no. Yeah.

[00:26:39] The Brewbound: That's wild.

[00:26:40] Brewers Association: Yeah. And then also a night shift into, you know, Jack's dad, not a partner, not a merger, but certainly a, you know, just your point of partnership to kind of, uh, you know, uh, protect yourself in the new business kind of way that, that, that was another kind of development that was, That was the most surprising, one of the biggest surprises of the year that was like, A, what is this? And then B, where did this come from? For me, at least, that was a big one.

[00:27:07] The Brewbound: Yeah. No, I think we all felt the same way about that. And Night Shift had been contract producing for a long time at both Jack's Abbey and Isle Brewers Guild, but they had always made beer at home too.

[00:27:17] Jessica Infante: A lot too. Yeah.

[00:27:19] The Brewbound: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:27:21] Brewers Association: Let's hand the mic over to Sean and see how this goes. I have that. We have everybody heard that, right? It was officially handed over to me. So just, uh, for the record. All right, let's have some fun guys. We'll do a little look back and a little look forward. Put your, uh, greatest Carmack hats on Zoe. You have no idea what that reference is. I'm sure. But just Google Johnny Carson. You'll, you'll figure that out. And he was a former talk show host. All right, so let's go first with the Let's Make It Irish Award for the Best Boozy Brand Extension. Thoughts are Simply Spiked, we got Jack and Coke, we got Hard Mountain Dew, I'll throw in Monster's Biche Unleashed. How about a Fresca Mixed, Cantaritos Hard Sodas from Jarritos, or Woodbridge Wine Soda. Gotta have some wine soda.

[00:28:05] Stone Brewing: SimpliSpec, man, really, like, it kind of, it, any of these brand, boozy brand extension things, you're always kind of deciding, is this going to work well or not? But they even beat their own expectations. That thing just went off with a freaking bang.

[00:28:23] Jessica Infante: I think what's impressive about Simply Spiked is bringing new people into the category or, you know, people who are using Simply as a mixer before just converting them to Simply Spiked drinkers.

[00:28:37] The Brewbound: Yeah. Props to them. I would like to give an honorable mention to Fresca Mixed just because a cute little 21, 22 year old, Jessica Infante was a big fan of Vodka, which was, you know, Fresca and Vodka.

[00:28:53] Jessica Infante: And some of these we haven't even been able to try yet, like the beast unleashed or Jackson Oak. Although I have a feeling we all know what a Jack and Coke tastes like.

[00:29:02] Brewers Association: That's going to be so please give us your report on that with your friends. Yeah.

[00:29:09] The Brewbound: Also, get some Woodbridge wine soda.

[00:29:11] Brewers Association: Yes, that would be a good that'd be a fun darty right there. Let's go on to the, what I'll call the Fragile Award for Best Molson Coors Beer Merch. My favorite thing to write about this year, certainly, or never lacking a new, a new item to talk about. We've had Molson Beer Up, Mason Maple Syrup. We've had Liney Hot Shorts. We've had Miller Lite Beer Coal, Coors Lite Cholale Pops. Miller light beer drops, or, uh, of course we're going holiday. You can go with the high life, the Christmas leg lamp or the, uh, Miller light keg tree stand. Any, any favorites of the bunch there?

[00:29:46] Stone Brewing: I forgot about the call.

[00:29:51] Brewers Association: That was a, Hey, come on. That was it. Big one. Yeah.

[00:29:55] The Brewbound: Having worked in a beer point of sale and merch and giveaway items, I'm going to go with the liney hot shorts because I feel like those were probably very difficult to execute.

[00:30:05] Brewers Association: That was my pick, too. Yeah. And just like also this sounds like a bad idea, but I totally want to have this. So, yeah.

[00:30:12] The Brewbound: I also have a pick for worse, but I would like my esteemed colleagues to share their favorites.

[00:30:16] Jessica Infante: You think chill lollipops is the worst, right? No, no, no. All right.

[00:30:23] Brewers Association: Justin, do you have a pick?

[00:30:25] Jessica Infante: I don't know that I have a favorite here. I mean, the chill lollipops sound like an interesting idea, and I've seen the conversion rate numbers that they shared for drinkers who had them in a bar setting and how they bought more Coors Light. But I don't know, man. Maybe the beer coal. I'll go with that. Practicality.

[00:30:50] The Brewbound: a dishonorable mention to beer drops. Yeah, like, first of all, I don't think the people who make your beer appreciate people thinking that just a simple tiny like extract additive can replicate its flavor. And third of all, like, Adding drops to a drink in this climate?

[00:31:14] Brewers Association: No. Not the best look.

[00:31:17] Jessica Infante: Yeah, that was a little questionable. I'd forgotten about beer drops. Thanks for bringing back my cringe.

[00:31:24] Stone Brewing: They're in like a mayonnaise looking container and that just grossed me out. Like it's in like a little squeegee. Yeah.

[00:31:31] Brewers Association: We got some votes for hot shorts. Sorry, sorry, leg lamp for Christmas. It's a two derivative from Christmas story, I think so. We shall see. But my middle light, you know, the the light buns idea is still out there. Everybody hot dog buns to go with your coal. I just, you know, Memorial Day 2023, guys, let's let's make this happen.

[00:31:50] The Brewbound: So that just makes sense.

[00:31:51] Brewers Association: It really does. I just don't you know, sometimes the ideas are just right there and Nobody goes, they make flashlights with Patrick Mahomes or something.

[00:32:02] Jessica Infante: Anheuser-Busch is probably going to take that idea now and use it as part of its celebration in Argentina for the World Cup, just to spite you.

[00:32:12] Brewers Association: Listen, I'd be happy it's out there. It's just, you know, I just it's for the taking. So we got to by the way, with the follow up with them on what day the buds arriving on the shores, Justin, to make sure we're there to cover it.

[00:32:23] Jessica Infante: There's there's a press release out now.

[00:32:25] Brewers Association: Oh, is there?

[00:32:25] Jessica Infante: Oh, is there?

[00:32:26] Brewers Association: Yeah, that's very exciting.

[00:32:28] The Brewbound: So, OK. Now, is it the same beer or did they just send the beer from the South American supply chain? Because I hope that's what happened.

[00:32:38] Brewers Association: I would follow that Instagram account if there was an Instagram account of the journey of the beer.

[00:32:44] The Brewbound: The beer is on a container ship.

[00:32:47] Brewers Association: A little tracking device. Stuck in a canal.

[00:32:50] The Brewbound: Hopefully it's not the Ever Given.

[00:32:51] Brewers Association: Exactly. Stuck in the Suez Canal. All right, let's, uh, we'll look ahead here, but that's enough looking back and then we've done enough. Let's, uh, let's get your expert. Opinions, everybody. So we will hold you to these next year when you don't invite me on for the year end podcast, I will still write about it in the newsletter. All right. Well, we have January's in front of us. So let's start with January. What brands will get super bowl ads this year from ABI and who will Molson cores go with for their super bowl ad. So let's say ABI has four. So let's just say if they have four slots, well, what four brands will they go with this year? But they've done, I think, up to six before, but they're no longer the official exclusive beer sponsor for the Super Bowl for TV. So that's what's changed. If you have four ads for ABI, what four spots do you pick? This is going to be a surprising one. All right. Are we doing a B or Molson Coors? Well, just let's go first. Then we'll go with Molson Coors after that.

[00:33:48] Jessica Infante: I'm going to guess the AB puts an ad for Kona. OK, I like that as it's like Modelo or Corona Challenger, more so Corona Challenger. Right.

[00:34:03] Brewers Association: That's the wild card. OK, Zoe, any any thoughts come to your mind? Will there be a Guy Fieri part two Bud Light and Heart Soda? Whatever that was.

[00:34:15] Stone Brewing: I mean, I feel like yes, they probably will do not. I don't think Guy Fieri is coming back, but I feel like they probably will have to do some sort of salsa related thing if they want that thing, like a last ditch effort to save whatever is going on there. Interesting. Also like I feel like do they ever have, have they ever had like a natty light Super Bowl promo yet? I feel like they really need to cash in on those, that audience crossover.

[00:34:44] Jessica Infante: Budget beer. Yeah. So like a bush light.

[00:34:48] Brewers Association: Right. Yeah. Bush light. Yeah. I think what was that? Milwaukee's best at those like Will Ferrell ads one year that aired in like two markets across the country that were super weird or something. Uh, so you get these like, you know, smaller stuff, Zoe, but you know, the, the, the big $6 million ad by doesn't generally cross the marker there. So, uh, and they haven't really done, I guess, goose kind of had one once, I guess, just back to the craft division. Have they ever really gotten a, playing the Super Bowl, but I think Kona is actually, it's actually, it's actually a really smart idea. I mean, I think it's a smart play for what the priority they've given it, you know, or lip service at least about 2023. Yeah.

[00:35:25] Stone Brewing: Oh, you know what, you know what, they're definitely going to.

[00:35:28] Brewers Association: not that i shouldn't say definitely but you know what will likely i think neutralist will probably have some oh good call zoe all right yeah that could be your hard seltzer slot this year is that yeah yeah yeah uh bon and viv got a slide at one point you know when they launched too so that would be the neutral maybe that really lines up with past thinking there too so i kind of liked that commercial with like the shark tank it was like a like a shark tank of sharks and like bon and viv the mermaids Didn't even know it was a seltzer. It was really like, you know, that was my award for what is this? Yeah.

[00:36:01] The Brewbound: Anyway, my wildcard pick is Stella Artois. Wow. I'm going off the same information that Justin is, is that we chatted with, uh, leaders of the high end and brewers collective, and they told us what their priorities were for next year, which includes Stella Artois and then, uh, playing at their premium loggers of which they consider Kona big wave should be a part, even though it is a now.

[00:36:26] Google Play: Yep. All right.

[00:36:27] Jessica Infante: Yeah, and for Molson Coors, I think that it's a missed opportunity if they don't do the taste great, less filling reboot or whatever. Just some take off of that during the Super Bowl, especially when did John Madden die? Right after Christmas last about a year ago. Yeah, roughly. Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if we see like a hologram John Madden or something.

[00:36:54] Brewers Association: Interesting. OK, yeah, he got a big shout out during Thanksgiving this year. Football coverage and stuff. So yeah, he's definitely still. Looming large there in football land. Alright, Zoe, any thoughts on MC?

[00:37:06] Stone Brewing: No, come back to me alright.

[00:37:10] Brewers Association: And Jess will leave it to you.

[00:37:13] The Brewbound: Topo Chico. Oh, wow. Okay. Huge momentum with that brand right now. Why would you not ride this wave into becoming maybe the third largest hard seltzer in the country?

[00:37:24] Stone Brewing: Oh, you know what?

[00:37:24] The Brewbound: Simply spiked. That's my pick.

[00:37:26] Stone Brewing: Simply spiked, I think, possibly.

[00:37:28] Brewers Association: All right. I'm with Justin on the middle. Revive the classic, be a crowd pleaser, but you guys are going with the new product. So two to two, we shall see. where they land. All right, just a reminder of January of 2022, a year ago, the year started off with beer sales down about 7%. Everything was down except non-alcohol, which was plus about 15% through most of the month. That was about through January 24th, I think. So we'll give it that. Does January start out down or up this year for beer sales versus 2022? Oh, sales? Sales. Yeah. Oh, well, that's true. Sales versus volume because of inflation.

[00:38:06] Jessica Infante: Yeah, I think the challenge is with it down and the price up, even if it's up slightly, as Jess pointed out with her death metal art, if it's up, it's hiding some more problematic trends. It's masking it.

[00:38:24] Brewers Association: We just had the brewery count this year or the preliminary brewery count from the BA of 9,500 breweries. Will we have more or less breweries at the end of 2023? Slightly more.

[00:38:35] Stone Brewing: Yeah, but not by much from what Bart has told us.

[00:38:40] The Brewbound: I think we're going to see a few more closings than we did this year.

[00:38:43] Stone Brewing: Yeah. Yeah. I know. I think that that preliminary closing number that we got so far, I think is going to be a little bit higher, if not a good chunk higher.

[00:38:53] Brewers Association: Okay. But keeping, keeping a little optimism for above, above the count from 2022. All right. Just slightly outpacing. Just slightly up, slightly outpacing. Okay. Slightly up. Does hard seltzer stabilize at current levels or is there more pain ahead in 2023?

[00:39:09] Stone Brewing: Seltzer is such a weird one. It's not gonna, I don't think it's gonna, I think it's gonna be a lot of the more of the same, where it's not like the share sizes are going down and that it's, but there's still gonna be some hard seltzers that are growing. They're just not, they just are never gonna have that insane growth ever again.

[00:39:31] Jessica Infante: Never say never, Zoe. Don't crush those dreams too much. I think that it'll stabilize for some, but for the group as a whole, I think that it's more decline and we'll see. This is just a wild speculative guess. I think we'll see one or two major brands fold or major manufacturers fold their seltzer operations and they won't be named White Claw or Truly.

[00:40:02] The Brewbound: No, I think that's a good call. Yeah, and I think these declines will probably continue apace, but I don't think they'll get larger. So right now, seltzer is 9.2.8% of the beer category, year to date through November 27th, according to our friends at IRI. And I think it'll get smaller, but not much. I don't think it'll dip below seven.

[00:40:27] Brewers Association: Okay. I was going to go eight, but yeah. Okay.

[00:40:29] The Brewbound: Just trying to give myself some cushion here.

[00:40:31] Brewers Association: I like it. I like it. What month will the NBWA BPI finally cross 50 again? March. March.

[00:40:39] Jessica Infante: Okay. I was going to say April, but yeah.

[00:40:43] Stone Brewing: Yeah. Yeah. I feel like I'd push it to April.

[00:40:48] The Brewbound: I see. I go with March for the madness.

[00:40:50] Jessica Infante: No, I think you're right with March because you've got inventory build too.

[00:40:55] Stone Brewing: Get that St. Paddy's Day volume going.

[00:40:58] Brewers Association: Yeah, which did return pretty big last year, and I believe that was the month it crossed 50 last year. Let's keep a good, a good thought out for March. This is a bigger question, but I guess going forward, 2022 was the new comp year for all numbers versus 2019 at this point, right? In 2023, we're not, I mean, I think that's coming out of Bruton, Bruton live. That seemed to be like, just kind of forget 2019 at this point and start building your business. I think now we have a full year of comps for 2022, which is kind of a normal ish years we're going to get. Is that kind of your sentiment as well in terms of like, what's a fair analysis at this point? Burn it all down and start anew.

[00:41:38] Jessica Infante: Yeah. Just salt the earth.

[00:41:41] Stone Brewing: I'm sure I feel like we're never going to not never. I feel like we'll still have another year or two of people still trying to to say that there's covid related things going on and we'll compare to 2019. But I mean, like even Bart told us, he's like, it's not we're past this point now. There are different things going on.

[00:42:02] Brewers Association: and Mary from Whole Foods is the same sentiment. So you got your large beer buyer and your BA economist, both kind of with that sentiment. So I was like, okay, I think anybody else, anybody who's trying to pull that or pull any kind of comms to tell a story, I think you're really stretching to tell your story. And to Bart's point about revenue increases, it's like, yeah, you better be making more revenue. Your beer prices went up. 11%. So anybody trying to pull that narrative of revenue versus 2019 is really searching for something, I feel like. So that will also be something to watch. All right. Two more quick questions, and we'll get on to a fun pop quiz to round out. Will Justin survive BrewTalk Live's next November, or will it be a Jess and Zoe day on day two? Survive.

[00:42:52] The Brewbound: I think he's going to make it.

[00:42:53] Brewers Association: Yeah.

[00:42:53] The Brewbound: Yeah. I feel good about that.

[00:42:56] Brewers Association: Justin, how are you feeling about that? I'm good. Yeah. You got it. All right. Going to have a two year old next year, man. I don't know. That's true.

[00:43:06] Jessica Infante: That's the whole level. I'm surviving. I'm not thriving.

[00:43:13] The Brewbound: I think that's been the theme of my year.

[00:43:17] Brewers Association: That's very popular. And Justin, a question for you. Will Jess and Zoe say hello to me in New York City when they visit next year?

[00:43:25] Jessica Infante: Jess, yes. Zoe, no.

[00:43:27] Brewers Association: All right.

[00:43:29] Jessica Infante: Jess is nice. Zoe holds grudges because she can't let the Boston, New York thing go.

[00:43:35] Brewers Association: She can't meet a New York fan in New York. Yeah. All right. Yeah. Fine. I'll go to June Shine by myself, Zoe. It's all good. But you know what? If they'll let me in, I'm not sure if I fit the dress code, but I will. I'll give it a shot.

[00:43:49] Stone Brewing: The theme of the back is surf bungalow, so I think you can wear whatever you want.

[00:43:55] Brewers Association: Rockaway beach chic look? Okay, I'll give it a shot. All right, since ABI still owns all the breweries, let's see if you guys know which one. There are 13 breweries. Which one's the biggest? And let's go. Which one's biggest? Which one's smallest? Do you guys who can tell me that? Twenty twenty twenty one. These are twenty twenty one sales. The twenty twenty two numbers are right yet. So based on twenty twenty one Brewer's Collective Brands smallest is platform.

[00:44:24] Jessica Infante: Largest is.

[00:44:25] The Brewbound: It's got to be Goose or Kona. I was going to say Kona or Elysian, probably Kona.

[00:44:34] Jessica Infante: Yeah, that's that's the three Zoe vote.

[00:44:39] Stone Brewing: This isn't where I tap out. I'm not.

[00:44:43] Brewers Association: I have 600,000 barrels in my head and I don't just for the wind. Yes, very nice. 660,000 barrels in 2021 for CBA Kona. So that was it. Gooses, but was 465 in second place, so not even really close. And then Elysian did 330 and third. So where is Golden Road on the 13 list here? Four. Yeah, four or five. Justin, two for two. Fourth place, 230,000 barrels. Let's see. Did Wicked Weed make over or under 100,000 barrels in 2021? Over or sell? Over?

[00:45:25] The Brewbound: I'm going to take the under.

[00:45:27] Brewers Association: Okay. Sorry, Jess, you win that one. 97. Very close, Justin.

[00:45:33] The Brewbound: I'm sure they crossed it in 22.

[00:45:36] Brewers Association: Yeah. And how much was Shock Top down in 2021? Do numbers go that high?

[00:45:45] The Brewbound: The limit does not exist.

[00:45:47] Brewers Association: Can you make negative beer? I will tell you they had the biggest drop of anybody on the list.

[00:45:55] The Brewbound: It's probably like 40%.

[00:46:00] Brewers Association: It was only said 17%, so I think that's probably because it's already down to 200,000 barrels.

[00:46:08] The Brewbound: Well, so the IRI numbers for shock top declines are always much, much, much larger, but they probably have a ton of shock top placements at all sorts of venues, airports.

[00:46:21] Brewers Association: Yeah, that's true. Okay. Very good. Good job, guys. Still sizable. 200. You said 200,000 barrels. This is 2021. So we'll see what 2020. Yeah.

[00:46:31] Jessica Infante: But 200, 200,000 barrels is what it's nothing to say that it's not like we talk about how it's down. And I joke, but, you know, it's yeah, that's that's like a top 25 craft brewer. Right. It's like we talked about, you know, breweries crossing the 100,000 barrel mark in here. You know, Shock Top's got 200,000. But I mean, when you've gone from what Were they a million barrel brand at one point?

[00:46:59] Brewers Association: Darn near close. I want to have 800 somewhere in my head, but I don't, I don't know, but, uh, it could have been, you know, I mean, I wouldn't, if you told me that I wouldn't be shocked. I mean, blue moon's always been over 2 million. So if it was, you know, half that business, I mean, 2017, they did 555,000.

[00:47:13] Jessica Infante: So, I mean, got it. Yeah. But I mean, that's the last number I have right in front of me, but it's, that doesn't mean that. They didn't do more. It's just the declines have been so steep from where they were that. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:47:33] The Brewbound: That brand was really just kind of catapulted into existence through the sheer force of category management.

[00:47:38] Jessica Infante: And here we are with with like everybody with wheat fever, you know, like.

[00:47:43] The Brewbound: Right.

[00:47:43] Jessica Infante: And that's true. It's not your moment. Shocked.

[00:47:47] The Brewbound: Yeah. Well, I mean, like all the popular fruited wheat beers from when I was Zoe's age are in like decline or dead, you know, like all those Sam Adams beers, like cherry wheat and blackberry wit and like magic hat number nine.

[00:48:02] Brewers Association: Like, yeah, it's different era, different era, different era, different era. The tastes are still there. So, I wanted a positive note here. So I'll give you to Jess, your favorite beer or three beers you might've had in 2022. What did, what did you enjoy most drinking that come to mind? We won't hold you to it, but just whatever comes to mind right now.

[00:48:21] The Brewbound: So I thought about this when you mentioned that you were going to ask us because like, good, I can't remember. It's a tough one, but I will say my top three beers this year were Czerny Pivo at Notch, which is their Czech black lager. One of my faves, I love a good black lager. I also had the extreme pleasure of visiting Dovetail when I was out in Chicago in the spring, had their Pilsner, which was lovely. And then my third favorite beer of the year is more circumstantial than the beer itself, but I discovered to my delight that on the pier on the boardwalk in Seaside Heights, New Jersey, there's now a bar and they've made it all so you can just walk around with a beer. My cousin was visiting with his kids who wanted to go on rides and I got a Miller Lite and just strolled around. Nice. It was a joy.

[00:49:11] Brewers Association: Go Jersey.

[00:49:12] The Brewbound: Yeah. Thought you'd like that.

[00:49:14] Brewers Association: Yeah. Zoe, uh, any three favorite beverages you had this year?

[00:49:20] Stone Brewing: It's nothing new and exciting, but you know, yeah. I had a lot of athletic upside down this year. That was really my like, I'm always the driver anyway, so I really needed like a non-ox this year and that one really came through. Alligash White, most times I was going out was definitely happening. Third, oh boy. Oh, you know what? Yes. Mention to the Inbounds we went to and I had the beer that I dream about now all the time. It was like a peanut butter honey blonde. That one was the highlight of my year.

[00:50:04] The Brewbound: Wow.

[00:50:05] Jessica Infante: We were there for it. Wow.

[00:50:07] The Brewbound: Yeah. Big honor for Inbound. And I would also like to give Inbound a shout out for hosting Dog Picture Day in their tap room. Easily the best taproom promotion I've seen.

[00:50:19] Stone Brewing: Very dog-friendly place. There's a lot there when we were there too. Shout out to Minneapolis.

[00:50:24] Brewers Association: And Justin. Juice Force, Juice Force, and Juice Force. But which variants Justin, is it the Imperial than the regular original for me? Oh, the only original. Wow.

[00:50:35] Jessica Infante: Like, all right. But for real, like I, well, I did enjoy juice forest for the record. Exactly. A dad. You can't really drink a lot all the time because you never get no, when you're going to get called into duty. So much like Zoe, I had to have some non-alcohol options and athletic, uh, freeway of hazy IPA was my jam.

[00:50:57] Brewers Association: Nice. All right. I will third, the athletic, uh, double your, uh, upside down Zoe. I think, you know, that I drink, you know, a lot of any beers just for lunch and that like cold beer after like, in a hot, in a hot summer day, like at lunch is like. most refreshing thing that I was looking forward to in the summertime. Like it's a great cold beer and yeah, I will give a shout out just to be a tier of beers, but just going a little, put a little Jersey in there, but just the, the loggers that came this year, just everything they know they're known for their barrel-edge stouts and surely the, you know, the IPAs, they put a lot out, but that their logger program is everything they put out this year is just, you know, So good 13, 13 play to check logger. I had last week, you know, just stuff that just, you know, small batch stuff. That's not what they're known for now, but moves, but they still do it. And they still, you know, explore quite a bit of it. And it's always, it's, you know, they have a lot of green tank there that they do it. Right. So shout out to them. And then a shout out to, you know, Vinnie and Natalie for Pliny the Younger, which was a very generous of them to send her away. That beer lived up to my memory of it. And I enjoyed that beer thoroughly in a very special moment, had my special time and I enjoyed it thoroughly. So a shout out to Pliny the Younger for 2022. So.

[00:52:12] Jessica Infante: Yeah, that was fantastic. I also have to shout out Single Speed Brewing for sending me Gable, which was their lager beer. It tasted great. It just hit me right. So I'll throw that into my list as well.

[00:52:26] Brewers Association: Awesome. Go craft beer. Yay. Go craft beer.

[00:52:29] The Brewbound: Some people still drink it. Justin's been really good at manifesting things lately. Like he'll say, Hey, we need to hear back from this person. And then all of a sudden the email shows up. So I'm hoping that you just manifested 2023 into the year of craft loggers.

[00:52:42] Brewers Association: Yeah. Let's do it. All right. Send the mojo out. All right, Justin, throwing the mic back to you to round us out here.

[00:52:48] Jessica Infante: Yeah, well, with that, thanks to all you do, Sean, for us The Brewbound. Thanks for joining us and hopping on at the last moment here. Thanks to Jess and Zoe, as always, for being awesome. Thanks to our audio team. And thanks to all of you for listening. We will be back next week. Got one more episode for the year and then we'll be back next year. So but we will have a fresh episode next week. So stay tuned for that. And until then, we'll talk to you later.