[00:00:00] Jessica Infante: Next on the Brewbound Podcast, a brewery closing that has a happy ending. Hello and welcome back to the Brewbound Podcast. I am Brewbound Managing Editor, Jessica Infante, and thrilled to be here with my esteemed colleagues.
[00:00:26] Justin Kendall: I'm Justin Kendall, Editor of Brewbound.
[00:00:28] Zoe Licata: And I'm Zoe Licata, Brewbound reporter. Yeah. Gotta remind people of our titles sometimes. Sometimes I think that people need to know.
[00:00:37] Jessica Infante: But yeah, we have a great conversation. As our featured interview this week, we are chatting with Cambridge Brewing Company founder and owner, Phil Bannatyne. Zoe and I had a lovely chat with Phil about his recent big news that they are shutting down at the end of the year. And not for any of the reasons that you usually hear about, because in the year of our Lord Taylor Swift 2024, to hear that a brewery is closing is not at all rare. But in this case, Phil's going to retire. Team's going to take a break. Some of them are interested in getting back into the brewing and hospitality world, but overall, really great shot.
[00:01:15] Zoe Licata: Yeah, definitely seems like there's a theme of just rest and relaxation for that whole crew before they jump into their next chapters.
[00:01:24] Jessica Infante: Yeah, and well-deserved. They've been open for, gosh, 35 years? Mm-hmm. And have done big, big things, like producing the first pumpkin ale in the Northeast, definitely in New England, which basically considers Pumpkin Beard's middle name.
[00:01:40] Justin Kendall: Mm-hmm. Not a lot of brew pubs make it this far.
[00:01:43] Jessica Infante: Not a lot of brew pubs make it this far, exactly. Brew pubs are super interesting to me because, you know, in the early days, brew pubs in like the 80s and 90s really kind of helped create the drinker base that allowed craft beer to take off the way that it did. You know, like it was a place to go to see beer being made. It was a place where you could have beer that maybe in some cases was specifically brewed to go with menu items. Like I think it introduced a lot of people to the concept of the making of beer at all, but also how to pair beer with food and how to try different styles of beer and how to appreciate beer. And I think it's really interesting to me to see the way that things have happened for that class of trade in the past call, like, I don't know, 10 years.
[00:02:29] Justin Kendall: It's definitely been a route to getting into the industry. If you wanted to be a brewer, if you were a consumer, it was, like you said, a way to try a lot of different styles that maybe you hadn't before. You know, you'd go, you'd get a flight, you'd sample a lot of different things, all the things that we've become accustomed to at small breweries, which I think had really sort of taken that place, obviously. Definitely.
[00:02:55] Jessica Infante: Yeah. I mean, you know, brewpubs walk so taprooms could fly. But speaking of flying in taprooms, you know, in a couple of weeks, the three of us are flying out to San Diego for the National Beer Wholesalers Association's annual convention. And we will be hosting a lovely little happy hour gathering with our friends at the Lost Abbey on Sunday, September 29th, 4 to 6 p.m. If you are attending the conference or just in San Diego, because you live there, one, you are very lucky, and two, come hang with us. Should be a good time.
[00:03:25] Justin Kendall: Always a good time at the Lost Abbey. Like I said, best church you'll go to on that Sunday.
[00:03:31] Jessica Infante: For sure. I'm excited. Justin, you want to update us on Bruben Life?
[00:03:35] Justin Kendall: Sure. We also have BrewBowne Live coming up on December 11th and 12th, our annual business conference taking place once again in Marina Del Rey, California. We'll be at the Marriott again. We have retailer one-to-ones with extra mild convenience stores and Whole Foods. We've got panels, presentations, chats, networking, whole bunch of stuff lined up. Lots of announcements coming in the coming weeks. So stay tuned for those. And we may have lined up a popular retailer recently.
[00:04:09] Zoe Licata: Exciting. A familiar face we all love.
[00:04:12] Justin Kendall: Yep. Shoe game will be on point.
[00:04:15] Jessica Infante: That's all the hints you get. There we go. Well, let's get into the news a little bit. Zoe, I mean, all three of us were really following along with Firestone Walker's annual business plan meeting, which streamed today, but you are going to be writing the story about it. So, you know, what are some of your takeaways?
[00:04:33] Zoe Licata: It was a little bit similar to a lot of the same messaging I heard during Sierra Nevada's meeting with their wholesalers, in that they really want to be focused on beer and innovating within the beer space. Of course, with their own kind of Cali lifestyle spin on it. And so their kind of four main priorities next year is 805 and that whole brand family which of course it is that's kind of like their driving thing they have a couple things going on there with the cerveza that they introduced that's been getting some traction and then they just as of last week announced the non-alcoholic version 805 So that is one of their main priorities and kind of maintaining what they call this legacy of a brand. And then Cali Squeeze is kind of their version of this beyond your space and how they're participating in that. So it's their answer. They've had this for a while, but it's their answer to what consumers and younger legal drinking age consumers are looking for in flavor. And they want to continue to expand the reach of that brand. And then in Mindhaze, which is that kind of like hazy IPA space, kind of higher ABV, one of the big news points out of that is they're upping the ABV from 6.2% to 6.7%. on that one because they have noticed that within that hazy IPA space, anything 6.5 or above is what seems to be really topping the charts over there. So that was one of the big points there, as well as a new RADLR out of there that is 8% ABV. And that is another similar to Cali Squeeze, where it's trying to speak to those folks that I think the word they said was they don't know they like beer yet. And so they're giving them something that combines kind of beer and lemonade in a higher ABV standpoint, because I guess that's what folks want in a range of flavors. They have lemonade, grapefruit and watermelon. Those are some of the just quick highlights from that. And we'll be speaking to them to learn even more. So we'll get even more details on those.
[00:06:46] Justin Kendall: And that last product, that's Mindhaze Rage, right?
[00:06:50] Zoe Licata: Yes, Mindhaze Rage. And the packaging is everything you'd expect it to be with that title. It is very bright neon. They call it a turbo Rattler on the packaging. It's something.
[00:07:07] Jessica Infante: It's something. I don't know who's asking for this, but I'm sure they certainly have the data to make them believe that this is the way to go. And sometimes, you know, being mature is realizing that a product is not for you.
[00:07:20] Zoe Licata: It reminds me of the Chilling just came out with their Imperial Lemonades recently that are also 8% ABV and similar like bright, big, bold flavors. And those, I was like, I don't know who's buying this, but it immediately took off really quickly and scant. So people, I guess, are looking for this type of product.
[00:07:42] Jessica Infante: Yeah. I mean, this is like the Fisher's Island territory, right? Like those, I think were 9% and they've been on the market for a decade. So somebody's drinking them.
[00:07:51] Zoe Licata: Yeah. I think they go, I think they range. I think some of them go up to like even higher. Yeah.
[00:07:56] Jessica Infante: And some of them are a lot lower, but yeah. Like the OG version. I mean, one thing that really struck me on the ABP stream was that Mindhaze is the number two hazy IPA in California. That's big, like really big, especially when you consider big hazy IPAs from outside of California. So Californians clearly are supporting their hometown teams. And I assume that Sierra Hazy Little Thing is number one.
[00:08:23] Zoe Licata: Yeah, and it still only has, I think they said it was like 60% of the distro of hazy little things, so they have plenty of more room to expand.
[00:08:35] Justin Kendall: One of the things that jumped out at me was the slide where it said that the Mindhaze Rage was already resonating with Gen Z and millennials. And this is the slide that told me that the product wasn't for me with this quote. That shit's cranked. I like it. It's lemon, rind, forward, great flavor. I think that that sums up telling me that this speaks to a different generation, maybe not even Zoe's generation.
[00:09:04] Zoe Licata: Yeah, no. We should include this screenshot of this slide in a parting shot or something because these quotes are something. The one that got me was, I would assume this drink is a vibe. And as someone who is a frequent user of the word vibe, I still felt like this was not my group of people. So I guess that I've been outaged. The youngins have finally infiltrated the Bebelk space.
[00:09:32] Phil Bannatyne: Good for them. We need them. Yeah. Well, I mean, the old ones are driving the non-ALC trends. Mm-hmm.
[00:09:42] Justin Kendall: Let's talk about another California brewery that might, might be for sale.
[00:09:49] Jessica Infante: I think it is for sale.
[00:09:51] Justin Kendall: Yeah.
[00:09:51] Jessica Infante: Yeah. So Anderson Valley Brewing Company, which is, I think I did the math on this and it's 36, going to be 37 years old in December, could potentially change hands for the second time in five years. It is listed for sale on bizquest.com. and asking price is $7.9 million. It does include $5.4 million in real estate. The brewery sits on and FF&E, which I learned is fixtures, furnishing and equipment. I feel like I learned a lot today in the world of commercial real estate, but yeah, you know, we checked in with Kevin McKee, the president, CEO, and owner of Anderson Valley, AVBC. And he told us that, yes, It's something that's being explored really early stages now. He's had a few interest parties, but really early on, couldn't really say anything for sure. But you will remember that Kevin acquired Anderson Valley back in December of 2019. And I reviewed the story. sharing that news to write this current story. And I remember we had a really great chat. Kevin's had a super interesting career. He's a lawyer by training, had been a prosecutor for a while, ended up, you know, dabbling in the wine world, had a consulting firm representing craft, you know, wine, beer, and spirits producers. Also got into cannabis stuff. Kevin's super, super smart. And He at the time acquired the company in a cash deal, no debt, him and his family. And he said that this would give them the freedom to really take a long view at the business and really keep it multigenerational. But unfortunately, something happened a few months after this deal that completely upended the entire beer industry, which would be the pandemic. So I think it really hasn't been easy for anybody. And like I said, Kevin's really smart. I think he, you know, sees that maybe He would like a change, and that's what he's working toward. I also learned that they have an untold amount of fairy doors on their 30-anchor beer camp campus.
[00:11:53] Justin Kendall: This is a legit thing that he sent us a photo of.
[00:11:56] Jessica Infante: It's very cute. Oh, yeah. Maybe this needs to be a parting shot.
[00:11:59] Justin Kendall: Yeah, I think it totally does. But yeah, they've been through it, too. Like you said, they've been through it. They've went through some wholesaler changes. They were involved in a lawsuit with Reyes Beer Division over one of those changes. None of that can be cheap.
[00:12:16] Phil Bannatyne: No, no, I'm sure.
[00:12:17] Zoe Licata: I remember like during my first I want to say first few months of Brewbound, I like specifically remember I think I guess I was still going through like press releases or something. And we were consistently getting news like every couple of weeks of another wholesale change there. So they were doing a lot of changes.
[00:12:38] Jessica Infante: Yeah. And that's when it gets mentioned in the business listing that it's quote recognizable brand and deep and stable distribution relationships. So I assume, you know, when Kevin took the reins, he set the network up the way that he wanted it to be. Now it is stable. Yeah. I mean they annual production capacity of a hundred thousand barrels, which is a lot. The brew house has a hundred barrel tank and an 85 barrel tank. And yeah, I mean, AVBC obviously in being 36 years old, it's really like a, a pioneer of the craft industry, particularly in that part of the country. So if you're interested, go to bizquest.com or hit up Kevin. Yeah. Ask them to see the fairy doors.
[00:13:25] Justin Kendall: This is like the unofficial California episode, I think, because we talked about Arthur Walker, we talked about Anderson Valley, and now we're going to talk about modern times and Kraft Ohana.
[00:13:36] Jessica Infante: Whoa, so much California. Yeah. So this was a Friday afternoon news dump. And you know, around what, like maybe 4.30, we got a press release from Craft Ohana telling us that they would be shifting production of Modern Times beer from Modern Times' production facility over to Alesmith, another San Diego area craft brewer. And unfortunately, that's going to result in the elimination of 57 jobs thereabouts. And That always sucks. It is never not fun to have to make those decisions, I'm sure. But I just want to give some props to Scott Metzger, who's the president and COO of Kraft Ohana. He's always on the level with us when he's got to share bad news. Even in his past job at Warm Town, I think Scott's always been really upfront with us. And so is Kevin McGee. I feel like the three of us spend a lot of time trying to get information out of people who aren't always as forthcoming. And I just really appreciate when people own up to the fact that, yeah, this is a tough day, but here's the info. Because whenever there are rumors of layoffs, I think one of the best ways to make people feel a little bit more at ease is to get all the information out. So when we don't get all the information that we need, I think it just makes people feel a little bit like more anxious. I always appreciate when people are just straight with us. Yeah. And that is what happened on Friday. And quick to respond.
[00:15:02] Justin Kendall: Yeah. You don't know if more is coming. If you don't know who's affected, you know, somebody within your company is seeing if you have multiple divisions, they're seeing this happening in one place is going to happen in another place. Am I at risk? You never know. And we will talk about that in a minute here. But focusing on this, I don't know that I'm surprised, but they just got the brand, not... When did they get the brand?
[00:15:31] Zoe Licata: 2022, end of 2022.
[00:15:33] Justin Kendall: It's been a couple of years of trying to sort through this. They're gonna keep two of the tap rooms, right? And they're moving coffee production at one of those to contract as well, because that's another pretty decent piece of the business.
[00:15:47] Jessica Infante: Yeah. I mean, remember when Modern Times had eight tap rooms? Remember when one of them had a pool?
[00:15:54] Justin Kendall: and a Macho Man mural and no AC, I think, if I remember. Yeah.
[00:15:58] Zoe Licata: Well, I even remember when they were still going through that auction process and we had access to all of the financial details for Modern Times and some of the debts they had and the amount of money they owed on so many properties. It seemed like there was a lot of just financial inefficiencies going on there. So I can't imagine having to take that on and then try to figure it out into this new business that is Kraft Ohana. We've heard bits and pieces of them being like, this is harder than we thought. I think in the new brewer, when all the production data came out, Garrett Marrero was quoted in there saying that the transition was even harder than he expected it to be. we did an interview with Scott Besker for Around With a couple months ago and he had mentioned that modern times just had a lot of inefficiencies production-wise and that it just didn't make a lot of sense how it was working. So there's been little rumblings that something probably was going to happen to help with that. Yeah.
[00:16:59] Justin Kendall: I should say pool. Like I can't understate like they had a pool at one of these places and not Kraft Ohana like previous modern times.
[00:17:08] Jessica Infante: No, it was Modern Times Anaheim, because if it were one of the Modern Times in San Diego, I'd say we should just go by to pay our respects, but it's in Anaheim and we don't have time to get there during MBWA. But yeah, I think another thing that Modern Times, that their production facility was doing was producing some fruited beers for Maui. Those are going to move back to Hawaii, Brad Avery out of Boulder, part of the Maui USA crew, is doing some contract production for Maui. So that was interesting. I kind of thought the whole point of most of this was to get production space for Maui on the mainland, but no, they're really committed to keeping the Modern Times brand in market.
[00:17:53] Justin Kendall: The A.L. Smith piece of this can't be understated either, because they picked up the contract production for McKellar back when they ceased U.S. operations. It's, I guess, the San Diego safe haven.
[00:18:07] Jessica Infante: Yeah, they've got like a whole page on their website that details like all of their, you know, their specs for their contract brewing business. I think that's something that they've really been able to develop into a really, you know, nice business unit for themselves, which is great. And hoping that I get to talk with them in the next couple of days, just about, you know, how this came together and what their goals and aspirations are for the contract business, because that's huge. I mean, anything you can do to keep your tanks working and full is big. especially right now. In a conversation that we had with Eric Wallace from Left Hand a couple weeks ago, he said he's seen estimates that there's twice as much production capacity in the country as the beer industry needs right now. I believe it.
[00:18:48] Justin Kendall: Yeah. I can't imagine what the stainless market is at this point.
[00:18:54] Jessica Infante: No, and that's the thing, like if you are listening to our podcast because you're thinking about starting a brewery, number one, why? But number two, do not buy new equipment.
[00:19:05] Zoe Licata: Subscribe to the newsletter and see how many people are putting up equipment auctions and check those out. Seriously.
[00:19:12] Justin Kendall: Well, remember when we were walking around CBC and a lot of the stainless that we saw were for distilling.
[00:19:20] Jessica Infante: Yeah. Yeah. We came up with our own song. Here is still, there is still, everywhere is still, still. We didn't really finish it, but we got that part.
[00:19:30] Justin Kendall: I guess that takes us to our last bit of news for the week, and that was the Tilray job cuts.
[00:19:36] Zoe Licata: Yeah, more bad news. Also unsurprising, I guess you could say? Yes.
[00:19:42] Jessica Infante: Yeah. You can't just keep buying up brands and be able to keep everything.
[00:19:47] Justin Kendall: So we started hearing about this the night before we actually got, and we actually got the statement too, that the day before we put the story out, we had heard about these job cuts. I heard that they were at 10 Barrel, and I had heard that they affected the innovation team, and we'll get into that in a minute. really, you know, we did not get much information from Tilray on this as far as what happened. And they just said a limited number of employees across various departments, which doesn't really narrow it down because we were asking specifics, how many affected, which breweries. And I think that there's still people out there trying to piece together what happened here because It's kind of in the ether unless, you know, you're on the ground in a place like the New School is and they're able to connect directly with some of those folks that got affected. And what we learned from the New School's report was that 10 Barrel founders, Chris and Jeremy Cox, resigned from the brewery the week before. So who knows what they knew? And then as far as the innovation team, I guess, Jimmy Seifert, Ian Larkin, Sean Kelso, and Tanya Cornett were affected. All well-respected brewers in the industry. And we mentioned CBC were four months removed from the Brewers Association naming Cornett the Russell Shearer Award for innovation in craft brewing.
[00:21:19] Jessica Infante: It doesn't make any sense to me because now they have a bajillion craft brands. You would think you would want this team of really well-respected, really talented people to help innovate across all of them. You know, like I could see individual locations not needing a ton of people working at them, but when you have this broad a portfolio, you really do need to streamline some stuff centrally, which is what it seems like they're doing according to the wholesaler memo that Beer Business Daily reported. But to let this team go to me is questionable.
[00:21:54] Justin Kendall: And they were praising Tanya for her work after she won the award.
[00:22:01] Jessica Infante: For sure. Absolutely well deserved. But then to turn around and be like, actually, you know, it just it sucks to lose a job. It really does. And I feel for all these people, particularly in this industry, because they think, you know, like it's very easy to make your job your identity. And when you don't have that anymore, it can be very painful and very confusing. So I hope everybody that has been bounced out of a role, is able to land somewhere soon and do whatever it is that they want to do.
[00:22:30] Justin Kendall: Yeah. I think that each of those individuals will be sought after, I would hope, unless they want to do their own thing. Who knows?
[00:22:39] Jessica Infante: Or maybe they don't want to do this anymore at all, which is totally fair. Totally fair.
[00:22:46] Justin Kendall: I mean, we talked about job cuts at modern times. We talk about job cuts here. It's tough out there in this industry.
[00:22:52] Jessica Infante: Is it here?
[00:22:53] Zoe Licata: Here being Tilray.
[00:22:55] Justin Kendall: Tilray, yeah, they're like not brew bout, but yeah.
[00:22:57] Zoe Licata: Not brew bound job cuts.
[00:22:59] Justin Kendall: Yeah, Tilray. Thank you for clarifying there. Thank you for clarifying there. Right.
[00:23:07] Zoe Licata: And this is how we all found out.
[00:23:10] Jessica Infante: And if you are any of these people who, you know, If you wanna chat, I think we're all open. So drop us a note, news at Brewbound.com.
[00:23:21] Zoe Licata: And if you're looking for a job, we have tons of jobs listings posted and there's people are posting new ones all the time. So people are looking to hire folks.
[00:23:30] Justin Kendall: For real, Zoe. We do have jobs that are new jobs that are showing up daily in our newsletter and on our website. And you don't have to be an insider to see those, but you do have to be an insider to read some of the news on the site and to get our insider exclusive newsletter. So sign up today. Brewbound.com slash jobs for sure. Yeah. Let's get to that featured interview with Cambridge Brewing's Phil Bannatyne.
[00:24:01] Jessica Infante: Our guest today is somebody whose work has been so important to the New England craft beer community, and he released some big news last month. So joining us is Cambridge Brewing Company founder and owner, Phil Bannatyne. Phil, how are you?
[00:24:15] Speaker 1: I'm well, thank you very much, Jess, and thanks for the opportunity to talk to folks.
[00:24:20] Jessica Infante: Oh my gosh, well, I'm so glad that we have you here because again, you're so popular, so busy, so I appreciate the time. But let's jump in, you know, in August, Cambridge Brewing announced that it would close at the end of this year because after nearly 35 years, it was time. And in 2024, a craft brewery saying it's closing its doors is far from surprising, but your story is different. You're going out on your own terms. So how did you arrive at this decision and how long have you been thinking about it?
[00:24:47] Speaker 1: I've been thinking about it for a couple of years. It seemed that we were kind of done. We have accomplished an enormous amount of things over the 35 years. And to go out on kind of a high note saying, yeah, that's kind of what we set out to do. And we're there. It just feels right. I'm not getting any younger. There are other things that I would like to do. There are other things that the members of my team would like to do. So it just, it seemed like the right time.
[00:25:21] Zoe Licata: When we were pouring over all the influence that you've had on folks, there was also an outpouring of comments for people just showing their appreciation for the impact of you and the company. Were there any messages or memories people brought up, well wishes or anything that surprised you or that really stuck out to you?
[00:25:43] Speaker 1: Boy, you know, the sheer volume of well-wishers did surprise me, and the amount of genuine emotion that people expressed in gratitude was really heartwarming. You know, there were a few messages that were more lengthy and indicated how influential this place has been to various individuals, brewers, but also customers, you know, maybe that got married here or something or met their spouses here. And that was really rewarding to read. And you know, it's bittersweet. It made me sad. This place has been real special to a lot of people. But as I wrote in our Facebook message, all good things do eventually come to an end and we are there.
[00:26:33] Jessica Infante: 35 years is basically an eternity in the hospitality business. So impressive that you guys have lasted that long, especially when not many other people do. But how did you notice the industry change in that time?
[00:26:47] Speaker 1: I think that's kind of a hard question. The changes that I have noticed more recently in the last five to eight years, perhaps it seems to me that there are fewer people going out to bars and restaurants just to hang out. You know, we've had over the years. Tons of longtime regulars. Some of them have moved to the suburbs, had kids. That's great. Others have gotten older and don't go out as much. That's great. But one thing I've noticed is that there aren't a whole lot of younger faces filling in behind them. And that I'm curious about. Maybe it's just we don't appeal to that younger crowd. But I also wonder whether that younger crowd feels comfortable going to bars and restaurants where they kind of don't know a lot of people and want to make friends for something. And that might be a change that I find concerning. The other change that I think is pretty obvious is we're in an office complex, lab complex, and there are just fewer people going out for lunch. I've been watching that for 10 years.
[00:27:55] Zoe Licata: You had folks who were saying they met and got married and things. So maybe that's the key to draw some folks back to these breweries is everyone complains about the dating apps. Maybe it's go back to the breweries and you can find your future spouse.
[00:28:09] Speaker 1: There you go.
[00:28:11] Zoe Licata: Brewpubs are in such an interesting spot right now with how the industry has been since the pandemic and how consumers have changed their habits and you have the added complexities of serving food and all of that. But it's also, brewpubs are really important to just craft beer. I mean, it's a place where people hone some of their skills and learn about the industry. It's been, like I said, a place that has struggled in most recent years. So how do you view that transition of what has happened to brewpubs and the current state that they're in right now?
[00:28:45] Speaker 1: You mean brewpubs as opposed to taprooms?
[00:28:48] Zoe Licata: Yeah, brewpubs, they have the food elements, but they're still beer focused, have a lot of beers on tap for people to learn about the industry from.
[00:28:57] Speaker 1: Yeah, of course. I think, you know, the big difference between a brew pub and a tap room is you have a full service staff and a full service restaurant. So you have a whole nother component to the business, the culinary component and the kitchen staff and all of that that goes with it. It's more complicated. It's harder, but it's also obviously more of a draw for people to come in and have dinner and pair of beers with their food and that kind of thing.
[00:29:24] Zoe Licata: We've seen brew pubs have been hit kind of the hardest in recent years when it comes to closings. They've been one of the areas versus tap rooms or microbreweries or things that has seemed to struggle the most. So I'm curious of what you think, what is happening with brew pubs right now.
[00:29:41] Speaker 1: There aren't that many of us in the state compared by tap rooms of the two hundred and some odd breweries in the state. I venture eighty, ninety percent of them are tap rooms. Perhaps one of the struggles through pub space is that we need to be in a better location in terms of destination. Where you put a tap room in an industrial area in the corner of a warehouse that's fine rents nice and cheap group hubs need to be where there are people potentially walking by or just an easier destination to get to and rents therefore are higher so that that might be part of the issue. I think there's room in the market for brew pubs. I think the food aspect has to be strong. We tried to focus on seasonal New England cuisine and local providers and try to keep the quality of the food up. And it's been a big draw for us. So I hope other people will still get into this space. I think it can be successful.
[00:30:38] Jessica Infante: Definitely. One thing that I think of a lot, particularly as it pertains to CBC, is that so many prominent brewers have come through your doors, you know, and gone on to go other places, or, you know, well, your brewmaster is so acclaimed and so respected by his peers. You know, what has your recruitment strategy been like? And that you're able to retain and train so many people is so impressive. Like, can you estimate how many CBC alums are still in the industry?
[00:31:03] Speaker 1: Well, yeah, and I have to tip my hat to Will here, because he's in charge of hiring the assistants and training them. And a lot of people do want to work under him and learn from him. He's an extraordinary brewer. He's been here for 32 years and really put CBC on the national and, frankly, international map for the quality of our beer. I asked him this question the other day and he said we've had roughly 26 to 28 brewers come through here as apprentices and assistant brewers and something like 12 or 14 of them are still in the industry.
[00:31:43] Phil Bannatyne: Wow.
[00:31:44] Speaker 1: Locally and and across the country.
[00:31:47] Jessica Infante: What a legacy. That's so impressive.
[00:31:49] Speaker 1: Yeah and something we're real proud of.
[00:31:52] Zoe Licata: Another part of your legacy and something that is very timely for right now is the pumpkin ale. This is like something that is everywhere now. I think people are getting ready to drink them in early August at this point. But some folks, if they don't know, you guys were kind of the first ones to do this in the Northeast. Can you walk us through like what those early years were like? What made you decide to do this? And how have you seen it kind of blow up into this phenomenon it is now?
[00:32:22] Speaker 1: Yeah, I got my brewing bug in the Bay Area in California, and there was a guy over in Hayward, California, called Buffalo Bills, had a brewpub, and he was the first pumpkin ale in the country, to the best of my knowledge. I think our pumpkin ale that I actually formulated back in, I believe it was 91, was the first pumpkin ale east of the Mississippi, at least we claim that. And since then, you know, the style has exploded and also retreated a little bit in the last five years. I think there was a real backlash against the plethora of pumpkin that was on the market. I sort of think 2013 was peak pumpkin, and it's kind of been dropping since then. But I think it's a great style. Ours is just real subtle. We use fresh pumpkins in the mash. We have distributed pumpkin ale in the past. And the distributors are all like, well, we need it by the end of July. And we're like, well, I'm sorry. We don't have orange pumpkins at the end of July. It needs to wait. It's September. And so we've stuck to that and we keep the spicing real subtle. So it's very drinkable and not, you know, Yankee Candle pumpkin ale. I appreciate that. That's the key.
[00:33:39] Jessica Infante: Because a well-done pumpkin ale, delicious, nothing like it. But a pumpkin ale that's closer to a candle than a beer is rough. Right.
[00:33:49] Zoe Licata: Yeah. I'm curious if there are any other beers that stick out to you as some that you're most proud of from CBC's time?
[00:33:57] Speaker 1: Well, you know, oddly, one of our original beers, Cambridge Amber, is one that we still brew today and probably make the most of. We also distribute that to a lot of local bars and restaurants and across the state. And that one fits in a lot of lineups that are saturated with IPAs and loggers and cultures perhaps. And our flower child IPA is probably closest to my heart, just because it's a style that I personally like the most. It's a West Coast, somewhat bitter, nicely hobbed, well balanced, delicious beer that that is my go to. So I think those two stand out. What's next for you and some of the team? Yeah, for me, retirement. Got some hobbies I'd like to explore and just take a little more time to be with family and friends. I play tennis. I look forward to that. I've taken up sailing. I look forward to that. And at some point in the near future, I will do something more intellectual and to give back to the community. I'm fortunate to be in a position where I'm able to do that. As for Will, my brewmaster, he's looking forward to a break. But then I'm sure we'll see him again in the beer scene in some capacity. my chef, my GM, all these folks are looking forward to taking a break. We've been doing this a long time and they're all looking forward to a bit of a break and then a new challenge in their careers. So well-deserved.
[00:35:32] Jessica Infante: And it's, I mean, I don't have to tell you, it's hard work. So I'm really excited for all of you to get some time to rest and relax. Thank you. Well, Phil, this has been awesome. I really appreciate the time and I promise you we'll see Zoe and I for a beer probably at least once between now and December. Well, Zoe in particular. And Zoe lives in Eastie.
[00:35:53] Zoe Licata: I know. I have no excuse. I lived in Cambridge for a little bit too. I got to get moving over there.
[00:36:00] Jessica Infante: So hope to see you. I'll be there. Thank you so much, Phil. And congrats on quite a run. You should be so proud. You guys have done so much for not just New England craft beer, but really craft beer nationwide. So we're so excited that you could talk to us today. Thank you. All the best to you both. Oh, thank you so much. And that is our show for this week. Thank you so much for tuning in. Thank you to Justin, Zoe, and Joe and the whole rest of the Brew Bound BevNET crew that makes this podcast listenable week in week out. If you enjoyed this episode, we'll be back next week with another.
