[00:00:00] Justin Kendall: Next on the Brewbound Podcast, hear from some of our 2023 Brewbound Award winners. Hello and welcome to the Brewbound Podcast. I'm Justin Kendall.
[00:00:21] Jessen Fante: I'm Jessen Fante. And I'm Zoe Licata.
[00:00:24] Justin Kendall: And this week's episode, you will hear from some of our 2023 award winners, Athletic Brewing, Bill Shufelt, and John Walker, Lawson's Adeline Druart, and Sean Lawson, and Beatbox's Aimy Steadman. So stay tuned for that. And we don't have anything to plug as far as events go anymore, because Brewbound Live is over, and I feel a thousand percent less stressed.
[00:00:52] Jessen Fante: You sound a thousand percent less stressed. Yeah, there's some chipperness in your voice, though.
[00:00:58] Justin Kendall: I won't get into all the reasons why it was a stressful time, but I'm just glad that it seemingly went off without a hitch. And now we can just recap it all. I think I had a great time.
[00:01:12] Jessen Fante: You know, you know, like it's all such a blur, you know, and like, I mean, you guys put way more work into this than I did. I just kind of showed up. Well, you also showed up with a child. It was Baby's first beer conference. Cora Corbett, I think, is now the most popular person in the beer industry. Well-deserved because she's extremely cute. And she even came to some of our panels. So that was exciting and also stressful because, you know, like I don't really get nervous going on stage, but knowing that my baby is in the room and potentially judging me. Terrifying. She definitely wasn't judging you. You don't know that. My mom said she got fussy during the flagships panel and had to leave. Wow. Getting called boring by my own baby. Sick burn.
[00:02:01] Justin Kendall: I think that beats though her just mouth agape asleep with her headphones on.
[00:02:07] Jessen Fante: Yeah. She had fun at Firestone Walker.
[00:02:10] Justin Kendall: Too much fun.
[00:02:12] Jessen Fante: Too much fun. I don't know that we'll ever do this again because next year she'll be old enough to stay home with her dad. So I hope everybody enjoyed Baby at Beer Conference. I think everyone did very much.
[00:02:23] Justin Kendall: Nice addition.
[00:02:24] Jessen Fante: The first and last.
[00:02:26] Justin Kendall: Well, you mentioned that it's such a blur and I remember thinking on day one it didn't even feel real. It went so fast and then it's gone. It's over, you know?
[00:02:37] Jessen Fante: Yeah, it went by really, really fast this year. Hopefully that is a good thing for our content of just showing like how engaging it was and how interesting it was that it just kind of flashed by really fast. Nothing like slogged along at all. and we got really good feedback afterwards. I think people enjoyed themselves. I feel like it takes us a couple of weeks to finally process that it happened, it's over, and what happened while we were there. For sure. I mean, and this was a new venue for us, so I think that made it feel a little different, you know? Like I think the three of us could do Brewbound Live at the Lowe's in our sleep if we had to comfortably, so we would be great at it. But this was a completely different venue, and I think everyone enjoyed it. Shout out to the Marriott Marina Del Rey.
[00:03:24] Justin Kendall: I believe there's a good chance we'll be back there next year. Hope you enjoyed it. I know that I enjoyed the two coffee spots that were nearby, but I need to branch out. And I should have stopped at Killer Shrimp. Lots of regrets.
[00:03:38] Jessen Fante: We should have gone to the warehouse.
[00:03:40] Justin Kendall: We'll do it next year. And HiHo Cheeseburger. in the second ever Cheesecake Factory, which was across the street.
[00:03:48] Jessen Fante: What? I didn't know there was a legacy Cheesecake Factory.
[00:03:51] Justin Kendall: Yes. Wow. So many missed opportunities.
[00:03:57] Jessen Fante: Next year.
[00:03:59] Justin Kendall: Well, let's talk a little bit about our takeaways. And I'm going to start with you, Zoe. What were one or two takeaways from the conference that have stuck with you? And I'm asking you because I black out and I don't remember anything.
[00:04:14] Jessen Fante: not from the drinking, we should clarify. Yeah, yeah. I feel like I also blacked out and probably drank the least amount that I ever had at a brew bar in my life. One of the biggest takeaways, I think, was our keynote on day 2 when we had T.O. and Benny from Crowds and Hops, and Kevin Asato from the MB2A on stage. That was probably the most alert and awake, I think I felt, on an opening session for day 2 of Brew Bad Live. That was mainly due to the energy on stage. It was just a really great conversation about going a step further in the conversations we've seen around DEI and diversity within the beer industry and craft and BevValk and all those things. Of course, anytime you have T.O. on stage, he's going to bring the energy. He's a pretty intense in a good way guy.
[00:05:09] Justin Kendall: He doesn't have to be on stage.
[00:05:11] Jessen Fante: He's just- No. I think there were a couple of times he also got the energy up from the audience as well. One of the key takeaways from that was diversity within beer. One, it's not a new thing. People have been trying to have an impact in the beer industry outside of what we typically see as a craft consumer for a really long time. It's just now people are starting to pay more attention to it. And two, trying to cater to a greater audience is vital for beer to sustain itself at all or to grow at all. It's not just a fun little check box type thing that's like an actually financially important thing for everyone to be paying attention to because these consumers are out there and they're becoming a greater and greater portion of the consumer base. The quote from T.O. was, DE&I is not just some social experiment. It is a strategy for economic success for our country, period. The more people know about craft, the stronger our industry is. I mean, that's basically all you have to say about it. It's just like it needs to be happening and isn't. Yeah. And particularly in craft beer, you know, I was nervous writing questions for that panel because they just like, you know, love and cherish all those people. And I want to make sure that we're having like the most impactful conversation we can have. And now I'm mad at myself for saying the word impactful because it is my least favorite And Tio obviously made everybody laugh really hard during this, but to paraphrase myself, I said something about like craft beer has long mostly only targeted white men in their 20s to 40s, often at the expense of anybody else who might be interested in craft beer. And Tio was like, you don't say, really funny. But yeah, like craft's current drinker base is, drinking less, you know, as we've seen in pretty much everything that, you know, the BA chief economist Bart Watson has put out in the past year or two, people are drinking less craft beers in some cases, cause they're drinking a lot of other Bev Alk, but sometimes they're drinking no Alk and just targeting this one base who is proving to be maybe a little fickle, like really is it the detriment of the entire industry? So, You know, Crowns and Hobbs, you know, Benny and Tio have the Atrial Pills Initiative that's based on a study that found that if we achieve racial equity in the United States by, I want to say, the year 2050, we could add $8 trillion to the economy by making sure that people have the earning opportunities afforded to them that maybe miss them, by making sure that these underrepresented groups who don't get to participate in capitalism the way that other people do, making sure that they're able to be consumers of whatever they want to be consumers of, could add $8 trillion. That is so much money. That's Crowns and Hops' own initiative. They raise funds and they give business grants to black entrepreneurs in the beverage space. And they started this initiative when they were so young themselves. That's what's so impressive to me. It's like your company is still such a baby. And rather than marshal your efforts around your own work, you're actually turning back around and giving back to other people who might be a step or two behind you. Yeah. And what I also really liked about that conversation was Kevin pointed out that the NB2A is there now to make it easier so people like Benny and Teo don't have to have so much weight on their shoulders with trying to embolden people of color in the industry. It's not their responsibility just because they're born Black to now try to help with diversity in beer. And so now the NB2A exists to give more resources out there and lift some of that burden. And Kevin also pointed out, you know, the MB2A isn't just for people of color, just for black people. It's like anybody can be a part of it and be a part of that initiative. And he highly encouraged anybody out there in beer to join. Yeah. He gave an example of, and he said this in our video interview for them as we named them the beer champion of the year. So there's a great video interview with Kevin. You can check out on Brewbound.com. But he mentioned, you know, a brew pub in New Jersey wanted to decommission a brew house and they were like, well, who can use this? So, you know, Kevin found that one of his founding members, Celeste Beatty, was looking for a brew house for her new brewery. So, you know, the MB2A made it all happen to be able to move this really expensive equipment from one place that didn't need it to another place that did. And that's just like really a great way to make sure that, you know, everybody is rowing in the right direction. To steal a metaphor from Kevin himself.
[00:09:54] Justin Kendall: What other takeaways do you have, Jess, from the conference as a whole?
[00:09:59] Jessen Fante: My big takeaway that I know you guys spent the whole summer reporting on is how much turnover there is in industry leadership. And I think it's great and I think it's going to be a good thing. You know, I know we said goodbye to a lot of people who, you know, the three of us know really well, but you know, in their place, we've got people with fresh eyes and new ideas. You know, if you just look at like, I don't know, like on my brand flagships panel, we've got Carrie Yonker, who's the EVP of Bells, but has only been in her role for two years, maybe three. We had Stephen Garrett, who's the new president of Rogue, I believe took that leadership spot over the summer. Adeline Druart at Lawsons, who became the CEO of Lawsons over the summer, like a lot of new eyes coming in. And I think that's great. I think we're at a period in the industry where we could really use some fresh thinking. So that's exciting to me.
[00:10:52] Justin Kendall: And our keynote was all about that as well with Adam Pankovich from Rheingeist and Bryant Goulding, the co-founder of Rheingeist, was there to discuss the succession plan and how you know when it's maybe time to take a step back and how do you give space to new leadership and allow them to evolve the voice of the brand and what it's become?
[00:11:17] Jessen Fante: Yeah, because I mean, breweries of of Rheingeis age, you know, people that really came into their own during like the beginning of Kraft's taproom era. you know, those breweries are reaching a place where they're certainly maturing as businesses. And, you know, we talked about this when Brian and Bob said they were going to step down from day-to-day ops, like the skills and thinking and abilities that make you a really talented entrepreneur aren't always the same things that make you really great at running a day-to-day company. And I think it's really commendable that Brian and Bob knew it was, time for them to hand it over because I think some people you know occasionally stay in those roles a little too long and that's how we can kind of see some workplace dysfunction. So what a really healthy thing that they did and I'm so glad that Adam was here and you know it was Adam's second Brewbound Live appearance. He joined us last fall when he was their newly appointed chief commercial officer. So to see somebody that we thought was really talented and really smart be recognized so quickly was awesome. Not that it's all about us, but it's a little bit about us.
[00:12:24] Justin Kendall: It's our party.
[00:12:26] Jessen Fante: It also points to the shift in just where craft is at right now, where a lot of craft success before has been because of the passion of all these founders who were trying to create this craft community. And now we're at a point where craft really has to focus on, okay, what are its real legit business strategies? And you have to approach it more like some of these other industries that exist. And so there's some people, some smart people out there who can still help and be advised by those passionate founders, but can help also make sure businesses continue as we enter this next phase.
[00:13:01] Justin Kendall: I think I said it at the top of Brew Mountain Live that this was going to be a forward-looking conference. And I think we largely achieved that.
[00:13:10] Jessen Fante: I think we always aim for that. And I think we always achieve it. In short, I think we are great.
[00:13:15] Justin Kendall: This is the affirmation I needed today.
[00:13:18] Jessen Fante: See, good, that's what I'm here for.
[00:13:20] Justin Kendall: My takeaway is that the M&A market has completely flipped and that it's gonna be really hard for folks who don't have a succession plan, that don't know what's next, and that might be considering an exit from what we heard on stage from Simon Thorpe and Ryan Lake of Arlington Capital. And even what we heard from Ty Gilmore at Tilray Brands, Tilray's been a huge acquirer of craft breweries. And Ty said that he gets two to three calls a day.
[00:13:53] Jessen Fante: I don't doubt that for a minute. Tilray has been making some big moves in the past two years and interesting ones at that. I mean, some of their acquisition targets, I think have made you go a little hmm. And I think that probably is what's making a lot of craft brewers feel safe reaching out. We'll see, but you know, Ty said they've got big plans for Shock Top. I can't wait to see what happens.
[00:14:20] Justin Kendall: Well, they're going to brew it at Sweetwater and they're going to line extend it. They're going to bring back some flavor. Yeah. And he and I talked about some of the gaps they have in the Great Lakes and the Southwest. And I mean, it sounds like they may be trying to fill those gaps. So it's a wait and see thing. They just did the AB deal. So for sure. I'm not sure that I'd expect anything soon, but I wouldn't rule anything out.
[00:14:46] Jessen Fante: No. And speaking of them, you know, Montauk, which they acquired in November of 2022, announced last week that they are expanding to Florida. You know, they did like a quick burst in the Northeast, but it just makes sense when you think about the ways that people migrate. You know, if you read our weekend newsletter, Sean McNulty astutely pointed out, like many New Yorkers during the pandemic, Montauk also going to Florida.
[00:15:13] Justin Kendall: Well, all of the videos are now available for on-demand playback for Brewbound Insiders. We let you watch it for free if you caught the stream, but you know, after the fact, we got to make our money.
[00:15:27] Jessen Fante: It's some pretty awesome content. Well worth it.
[00:15:31] Justin Kendall: I think this is one of the best Brewbound Lives that we've done and it just raises the bar for next year. So no pressure for any of us. I'll bring the baby again if you think it'll help. I think it might. I might have to bring my baby too.
[00:15:46] Jessen Fante: Right. Brewbound Live, bring your baby.
[00:15:48] Justin Kendall: She'll be nearly three.
[00:15:50] Jessen Fante: Well, we can have her third birthday party. Shout out to Candace from Whole Foods who also brought her baby. Yep. Look at us working moms.
[00:15:58] Bill Shufelt: I know.
[00:15:58] Jessen Fante: Maybe you guys are starting a new trend. I hope not. That may be.
[00:16:04] Justin Kendall: Well, let's talk a little bit about the headlines out there and why Ty Gilmore might be getting two to three calls a day from breweries out there. And that's because the Brewers Association released its year in beer. And Jess, you wrote about that. And we've got some idea of where volume's going to land and an idea of what brewery openings and closings look like.
[00:16:27] Jessen Fante: Yeah, well, you know, I like to be a happy, forward thinking, grateful, positive person because it makes me feel better in the day to day. But in short, the year in beer was bad. It was bad. Volume is appearing to be down for the first time in the modern craft era. Other than 2020, I think we are all pretty comfortable looking at that year as being an anomaly and, you know, tossing it out. Another thing that struck me is that brewery openings and closings are getting closer, closer than they've been in recent years. And this is not the highest amount of closings that we've seen. That actually came in the year 2020, 439 breweries closed that year. We got this data from checking with the BA on this, and they think that we maybe could exceed that number this year when final data comes in. not the highest so far. There also have been higher closing percentages in the early 2000s. But in this current craft situation we've got going on, this is the closest openings and closings have ever been. And closings, you know, as Bart always cautions, is a tricky number to get to know because it's not like anybody is like yelling from the rooftops, hey, we're closing our brewery. So they don't always know everybody. But this year in 2023, so far, we know of 385 closed breweries and 420 opened breweries, which, I mean, that's a lot. That's still a lot. 420 breweries to open in a year is a lot, but it's not like the thousand plus we were seeing of, you know, 10 to seven years ago. Yeah, and Bart has also liked to point out the numbers and the declines are not just because of these openings and closings. The bigger factor here is that craft needs to find other ways to innovate and draw in more consumers. It's not just a matter of the businesses, they're not being more craft coming in or being so many craft coming out. there's a demand issue here. And not, as he pointed out on the stage of Brew Brown Live, not like that consumers don't want more craft, but they also are wanting a bunch of other things and craft isn't answering all of those wants right now. Right. Plus, I mean, the marketplace is just crazy crowded. Consumers got a lot going on in their lives. It's hard to target them and it's hard for them to, you know, find new things to either try or, you know what I'm saying? It's tough being a consumer.
[00:19:05] Justin Kendall: Well, and you have an aging craft base that is falling in line with a lot of societal norms as far as having children, buying homes. You know, it becomes less of a priority to stand in line for, you know, the latest bottle release or whatever it is, or, you know, you look for things that are like friendly for kids to go to. And that becomes an opportunity, though, for a lot of these breweries that can offer a family friendly place. Not to take this in the kids in tap rooms talk.
[00:19:39] Jessen Fante: No, I mean, you're right. I never noticed any of these things until this year, but a bunch of breweries by me are having Santa come and you can bring your kid and take a picture with Santa. Let's see, like do that at the mall or do that at a brewery? I think I know what I would pick.
[00:19:56] Justin Kendall: I do too. Well, anything else on the Brewers Association year end report that we should hit?
[00:20:04] Jessen Fante: No, I mean, we'll have more after Bart's webinar this week. The B.A. did share some good news that I will just run through real quick. They did a lot of work in Washington this year. They reached out to 84 newly elected members of Congress. The U.S. Postal Service Shipping Equity Act. Hope Springs Eternal on that one. It is back, hanging out. Hasn't moved since it was introduced in May, but it is there. Supply chain issues seem to have calmed down a little bit, but there's a lot of climate change driven disruptions in ingredients, which feels bleak and kind of dire. Below average harvest in European hops and North American barley. And in happy, happy news, the BA's mentorship program is closing out its third full year, has cycled through six cohorts that have connected more than 200 mentor mentee pairs. So that's one good thing.
[00:20:54] Justin Kendall: Always looking on the bright side. Trying. All right, let's play another round or tabbing out. And we spent some time in California last week. We got to try a lot of new products. We got a sample non-alcoholic teas from Loverboy, which I think some people would just call tea. We got to try non-alcoholic beer at Firestone Walker's Propagator. They've got a non-alcoholic blonde on draft. There's a June shine logger at their tap room in Santa Monica. So they went from hard kombucha to RTDs to a logger. That's going to come out next year. That's not June shine branded. It's called easy rider. And then of course we knew about white claw non-alcoholic it's coming. And I think that's just called seltzer. So I think I said this on stage, but. I'm not even sure there are lines to blur anymore. Everything is everything all at once. And here we are in this weird space where I think I've just given up. Like I'm just kind of the point where just make whatever you want. So are you buying another round on there still being lines to blur or are we through that looking glass and everybody's a beverage company?
[00:22:22] Jessen Fante: That's a good question. I kind of think like the next frontier is going to be food and like edible stuff, right? Yeah. Because what else is there to do? Yeah. You know what I would have liked whilst I was pregnant with the beer industry's most popular person? A non-alcoholic spicy dirty martini. Somebody can make one of those that isn't awful. I'm in. We're pretty close. I know there's a lot of non-alcoholic spirits brands and there are a couple non-alcoholic cocktails, but I feel like we still are going to see, we haven't reached the peak of those yet. We're at the very beginning still. I mean, every time I think there's a type of beverage that cannot be made hard, somebody proves me wrong and it happens again and again and again. So, you know what? Maybe I don't really want to answer this question because I don't think I have one. Yeah, I know we've talked about it before. I have a sneaky suspicion that quote-unquote hard sodas are coming back, but they're avoiding calling themselves sodas. We saw that basically the BevNET Spirits version of Pitch Slam on Sunday, the winner there, was a hard soda brand. but they're more focused on marketing like a local craft brand. They have that local focus. So I can see some of those brands that are not trying to be these big national companies possibly take off capitalizing on that big flavor push that is happening. This really all started with hard sodas. I mean, I know you could say it started with the spirits brands, F&Bs from when I was like 18 and 19. But like really for like 2015 was Not Your Father's and then Coney Island Root Beer. And then people went nuts for all of that stuff. And then people realized that they were drinking 320 calories in a bottle and then they were over it. And then people, when they were out, were drinking vodka sodas. So then you got White Claw and then you got Truly. And then people wanted a little bit more flavor. So then you got things that tasted a little bit different. Then you've got stuff like High Noon and now Truly makes vodka. And White Claw makes non-alcoholic hard seltzer.
[00:24:33] Justin Kendall: You're having a Pepe Silvia moment where you've got the strings connecting everything. I love your flow chart that you have going on. And that brings us to gay water.
[00:24:43] Jessen Fante: Gay water. Loved gay water. There's some in the fridge here. I'm going to take it home.
[00:24:47] Justin Kendall: Gaywater was one of our Pitch Slam contestants with a spirits-based, basically vodka soda, and four flavors. And I thought that they had a fantastic pitch. We didn't mention the Pitch Slam competition, so wanted to sort of jam that in. And this may also speak to where we're headed as far as like fragmentation of audience and who you're reaching, but that was one of the best pitches I think I've seen. They didn't win, but a shout out to them. The People's Republic of South Central won. It is a South Los Angeles brewery that's going to open and very focused on community. And that's another thing that I think, you know, we talked about early in the podcast, but being able to reach a community.
[00:25:36] Jessen Fante: Yeah, their pitches were both fantastic. Both founders did such a great job. They're just super different business models. And I just can't wait to see both of them succeed because I know they both will. But yeah, like Gatewater, like Spencer did a great job and he had some really great points about like the buying power of like the LGBTQ plus community, which is smart. So, you know, if you can give people something they see themselves in when they usually don't find that, like, I think they will reward you.
[00:26:03] Justin Kendall: Well, I realize that we sort of got sidetracked there.
[00:26:06] Jessen Fante: Sorry. And we can talk about pitch them next week. Yeah, there's so much there.
[00:26:09] Justin Kendall: But let's bring it back with one more and then we'll go to our interview with our award winners. And Jess, you showed this to me while we were at the conference. Martin House in Texas is making lobster pie, which they say is the, quote, first foray into the emergent crustacean-based sector of Athletic Brewing community. Lobster pie is a 6.9% beer brewed with chocolate, lobster, graham crackers, eggs, salt, butter, lemon, and lactose. Martin House is known for their pickle beer. They've done some pretty funky stuff that Zoe and I both tried at the NBWA convention. So I'm going to ask you.
[00:26:59] Jessen Fante: Really? Not GABF?
[00:27:02] Justin Kendall: No, they were on the floor at the trade show.
[00:27:05] Jessen Fante: Wow, wow, wow, wow.
[00:27:07] Justin Kendall: So you're going to try this? I mean, I can see it on draft at Killer Shrimp already and Marina Del Rey, but. What are you thinking about this, Zoe? Because you are pretty open-minded, I would think.
[00:27:23] Jessen Fante: I am. And, you know, I was all for, like, the cream cheese ragoon beer at Weldworks during GABF. And also, honestly, a pretty big fan of, like, oyster stouts and things. This one skeeves me out a little bit. I don't think I can quite go. This is just too far for me. Absolutely the fuck not. No, this is a nightmare. This is a nightmare and I can't. So you just think like lobster pie is delicious. And if you've never had, maybe you've, I mean, I don't know how far it gets outside New England, but it's like a baked like casserole situation with lobster and some like nice like breadcrumbs, probably from Ritz crackers. Like I see the thought process, but I do not know where these Texans have come up with the idea to add chocolate and graham crackers. Is it a s'mores beer? Is it a lobster beer? Are we being punked? Maybe we're being punked. I don't know.
[00:28:25] Justin Kendall: Maybe they got a good deal with Red Lobster.
[00:28:28] Jessen Fante: I mean, I actually think that's involved in the name.
[00:28:31] Justin Kendall: Is it?
[00:28:32] Jessen Fante: Yeah.
[00:28:33] Justin Kendall: I saw like a Red Lobster rewards thing. I don't think it's official. But I don't, I didn't think it was official either.
[00:28:40] Jessen Fante: No, it's not official, but it's, one of those cute, let's dance around, are we partnering with these people or are we not? But like, no, no, no.
[00:28:52] Justin Kendall: What in the crustacean beer space would you drink?
[00:28:57] Jessen Fante: What a great question. I love an oyster stout. All right. Glad you asked. I've had some nice oyster goeses. There's ways that you can make it work. You got to think about what that like briny flavor profile goes with. Yeah. I like, oyster sauce or anything that has that kind of like saltiness of it.
[00:29:17] Speaker: Mm-hmm.
[00:29:18] Jessen Fante: Just a little bit of salinity. Yeah. Jess and I discovered during Brewpond Live that we're both big fans of like spicy dirty martinis. I feel like the same vein where you can get similar flavor profiles, I'm okay with. Yeah. I mean, if there was like a socially acceptable way for me to drink clean seawater that wouldn't kill me, I might do that. That's gross. Let's delete that. No, I'm just kidding. It can stay. But like, yeah, I just, I feel like I see where Martin House was going and they lost me at like the third ingredient. Zoe, would you drink the cream cheese Rangoon beer if it were a crab Rangoon beer? I think I would, which seems like counter to what I just said about not wanting to drink this lobster pie beer. Well, OK, well, it wouldn't have fucking chocolate and graham crackers in it. Right. Yeah. Maybe this is like a mistaken copy paste situation where we've gotten half the ingredients list for like a s'more stout and half the ingredients list for whatever this is.
[00:30:25] Justin Kendall: I think we just need a crustacean beer festival. Just bring your lobster beers, bring your oyster beers, bring your crab rangoon beers.
[00:30:34] Jessen Fante: Let's do it. I'm 5,000% here for that.
[00:30:38] Justin Kendall: Maybe the fin back will switch over whale watching and it'll get a little more like seafaring. Brought to you by Long John Silvers.
[00:30:49] Jessen Fante: Boom. There we go. Let's get the BevNET events team cracking on this one. I'm sure they'll love it.
[00:30:56] Justin Kendall: Cheddar biscuits for everyone. Well, let's get to our interviews with some of our award winners, and you can also check out all of our award winners at Brewbound.com. Let's meet Brewbound's 2023 large brewery of the year. That's Athletic Brewing. Joining me now is Bill Shufelt and John Walker, the founders of Non-Alcoholic Beer Maker Athletic. Bill and John, congratulations. Thanks so much.
[00:31:25] Sean Lawson: Thank you so much. We're super excited. Really appreciate it.
[00:31:29] Justin Kendall: Well, Athletic continues its torrid pace. You crossed the 100,000 barrel mark in 2021. You landed at around 170,000 barrels last year. That made Athletic the 13th largest BA-defined craft brewery by volume. How are you pacing this year?
[00:31:45] Sean Lawson: It's still a really exciting time in the category, and things have been going great at Athletic. There's a lot of discovery going on non-alcoholic beer. Right now, yeah, we're tracking to above 250,000 barrels for 2023. And I'm really excited about the road ahead.
[00:32:02] Justin Kendall: That's wild. That is amazing. So one of the things that stands out to me about your year is how ubiquitous athletic is becoming. Upside Don Golden, it was added to menus on JetBlue flights. The beer is also on the menu at 150 TGI Fridays corporate stores. And you've released collabs with Netflix and RTD coffee brand, Super Coffee. How are those partnerships helping take athletic to the next level?
[00:32:35] Sean Lawson: Yeah, it's really a total team effort at athletic. I mean, really, obviously there's great quality in the beer coming out of our brewing teams and our breweries. Um, but then all those things you just touched on the sales and marketing wins. We have a great team of people all around the country knocking down these doors on these wins every day. So it's, it's all just hand to hand combat out in the street, like building relationships, community to community and totally a reflection of our sales team and trying to integrate into those cultural touch points to get non-alcoholic beer into the mainstream. So, yeah, we, uh, You know, John and I are still doing very localized efforts. Three of the last four weekends, I was out at sampling races and, you know, a few months ago, John and I were at 35,000 feet buying around for a whole plane and sampling. So yeah, we've had a lot of fun as the company continues to grow.
[00:33:25] Adeline Druart: I mean, I would just add that, you know, those partnerships just help us reach a wider audience. There's some awesome companies out there, and we're super fortunate to partner with people like Super Coffee, Netflix, and, you know, we're just trying to grow the category, grow awareness, and kind of spread the positive message that this is an awesome beer that can be enjoyed at any given time by anybody, and trying to open up the community of beer to the rest of the population.
[00:33:53] Justin Kendall: Bill, you've really sort of brought this to fruition too. You've said that your goal is to help take athletic and non-alcoholic beer to places where beer really hasn't gone before. Where do you still want to go that maybe you haven't yet?
[00:34:09] Sean Lawson: I mean, the grass is still so green and undiscovered. We think of ourselves as a big brewery that's well distributed, but we are really just scratching the surface. Athletic is only in about 8% of total potential distributed outlets in the licensed alcohol universe. And then non-alcoholic beer can obviously go a lot farther afield than alcohol. So I would say we have many, many years ahead of knocking on doors.
[00:34:37] Adeline Druart: I'd say one of the most exciting adventures we have going for us right now and where we hope to grow is in draft and on-premise. There's a lot of opportunity there, like you mentioned, TGI Fridays. But we're excited to bring draft. We're piloting that close to our breweries right now and hope to bring it to more audiences in more states.
[00:34:57] Sean Lawson: Yeah. On that, we passed about 25,000 bars and restaurants this year. which is just a small fraction of the universe of on-premise, but as, you know, call it 50 years ago, the independent corner pub was such a heart place of a community. And we, but like now it's gone to like one or two days a week where people drink alcohol on-premise. We want to bring back, you know, seven days of occasions to bars and restaurants. And there's a lot of occasion growth there.
[00:35:29] Justin Kendall: Well, there are a lot of folks out there who are using this as a pacer between, you know, you buy one alcoholic beer, you have a non-alcoholic beer in between. But that's one thing that I was hoping to dive into is you rolled out some draft beer business this year. What's the challenge in making that a little more, I guess, widespread?
[00:35:52] Sean Lawson: Besides the fact that nobody wants them?
[00:35:57] Adeline Druart: I think a lot of it goes to distribution and how to move kegs cold chain around the country effectively. Food safety is a primary concern of ours at Athletic and we speak to that all the time in terms of production and safe production so that we can all grow this category together and in a safe manner. And kegs are much more challenging to work with because you can't send a keg through a tunnel pasteurizer. So there are a lot of food safety concerns that go along with distribution. So it takes a lot of buy in from distributors from the end user at the bar. communicating SOPs and best practices to all of your partners and getting that off the ground. So there are a lot of hurdles, but once the lessons are learned and people buy in, it's totally approachable. It's really not any different from any other draft. And I think it's just teaching best practices in beer in general.
[00:36:54] Justin Kendall: Another space that there appears to be some room for growth to would be the convenience channel. What do you see as sort of the opportunity there and maybe, you know, what's it going to take to get more non-alcoholic beer in those stores?
[00:37:09] Sean Lawson: Yeah. And I mean, I joke about nobody wanting kegs. It's just people tend to have older perceptions of non-alcoholic beer. And so bartenders are hesitant to dedicated draft line to it until they see it actually really sells. And it sells a lot during the week too, when some of the other beers might be slower moving. Similar to convenience, um, it's one of those things where people look at it and say, Oh, there's no non-alcoholic beer sales there. So it will not sell there, but it hasn't had trial there actually. So, um, I think it's about the right brand awareness, timing, distribution, um, appropriate marketing. and right package. And so we think we're bringing all that together. There'll be an appropriate time to go into that channel. You know, probably over 40% of beer is in that channel at the end of the day. So it's obviously a really exciting future for us there.
[00:38:04] Justin Kendall: So I mentioned some of the volume gains that you've done and you've told us what you're on track for this year. And then we've talked a little bit about the marketing gains this year. But what do you see as sort of those milestone moments of 2023 that maybe we haven't touched on?
[00:38:21] Adeline Druart: I'd say internally, there are a lot of projects that our team has undertaken to kind of mature as a company. We've been sprinting for the past six years and it's been amazing and fun, but our team has put a lot of work into building systems and infrastructure that can support us for the long haul. We've done a whole lot of work in terms of sustainability and improving our processes so that we're more efficient and more in tune with The environment around us and how we work with it and our impact on the environment. Um, so there's been a lot of improvements there over the past year.
[00:38:57] Sean Lawson: Yeah. Along those lines too, for the trails had its biggest year ever $1.8 million. supporting over 150 outdoors organizations across the country. Um, so we're super proud of that program and business is going really well in Canada and the UK, um, as well as a few other areas. So it's fun to see athletic expand across borders, but a lot of our fun has just been in our backyards, in our communities, a lot of local events, run clubs, um, different fun team events and community events. Like we had a great Oktoberfest at the brewery a few weeks ago. So, um, Yeah, all in all, just kind of doing a lot more of what we've been doing.
[00:39:36] Justin Kendall: Nice. Well, last question for you. When you look ahead to 2024, what do you see is the biggest opportunity ahead for athletic?
[00:39:44] Sean Lawson: I think it's just steady growth and awareness. And yeah, so it's awareness is still really low for the evolving non-alcoholic category in the country. around 20% depending on the region and where you look, but so distribution and awareness is all right around 20%. So there's a lot of opportunity to just do consistently what we've been doing at a bigger scale.
[00:40:10] Adeline Druart: I think Bill captured it well, but now if there's some things to look forward to in 2024, there are a lot of new entrants into the category. And I think people building this category with their own voice and kind of exploring all the variety and, you know, the characters that can be embraced in craft beer in the non-alcoholic space is going to do wonders for the future of beer in general, but especially non-alcoholic beer.
[00:40:36] Justin Kendall: Well, Bill, John, congratulations to both of you and your team. What a year.
[00:40:42] Sean Lawson: Thank you so much from the Brewbound team. It's a total honor. You know, as you know, we've, kind of grown up with Brewbound as we were at your events in business planning. Then we did Pitch Slam, and it's so much fun to come back and win some awards. It's joining a great company of companies we really admire with this award, so thank you so much.
[00:41:05] Justin Kendall: Maxfield Thank you.
[00:41:11] Jessen Fante: Welcome back to the Brewbound Live live stream. I'm Jessen Fante, Brewbound Managing Editor. And I am so honored to be able to have this next conversation. We are so excited to share some big news. So our guests today are from Lawson's Finest Liquids up in Vermont. They've had a big year. The brewery achieved B Corp status. The social impact program crossed the threshold of $1.5 million raised. Adeline Druart joined as CEO, which marks the passing of the torch. And for all of these reasons and more, we are so excited to name Waitsfield Vermont's own Lawson's Finest Liquids Brew Bounce Craft Brewery of the Year. So Adeline, Sean, welcome. Congratulations. How are you both?
[00:41:56] Aimy Steadman: Hey, thank you so much. Yeah, we're so thrilled to receive this honor. It's it's huge.
[00:42:03] Jessen Fante: Well, you guys very much deserve it. And I believe this marks the second year in a row for a Vermont brewer. Last year, we had named Fiddlehead Craft Brewer of the Year. So you guys are clearly doing something right up there in the Green Mountain State. I sure do.
[00:42:19] Aimy Steadman: I call it a little sprinkle of magic goes into every beer.
[00:42:24] Jessen Fante: I would believe that for sure. So we've got so much to talk about. And I think it's just kind of important to kind of look at look at the journey a little bit. And personally, for me, I fondly remember the days of visiting Burlington for various weekend trips, lining up at the beverage warehouse in Minooski to grab a sip of sunshine to bring home to Massachusetts. But I am now equally pleased to be able to find it right here at home. So Sean, what was the journey like for you to bring this brand up to wider distribution?
[00:42:56] Aimy Steadman: It's been a pretty amazing journey. It's been 15 years since I started the brewery. My wife joined a few years in, Karen and I have started as a mom and pop, stewarded the business through our early stages of growth, expanded the brewery that started right next to the house in Warren, Vermont. And then as demand really grew and popularized kind of a cult following that we had Sean Lawson's Finest, people driving like yourself from all over the Northeast to come to Vermont to buy Double Sunshine, our maple beers, and some of our other creations. looked at what the next step was, and that was in 2014 when I launched Sip of Sunshine down at Two Roads Brewing in Connecticut. And that really enabled us to grow the brand, get the beer out to market beyond Vermont, first in Connecticut, then Massachusetts, Metro New York. And I never could have imagined that our little mom and pop company would have grown to where we are today with over 85 employees and distribution in 10 states. So it's been a It's been a thrill and I couldn't be more thrilled at where we've landed and especially the amazing team of people, one of whom is sitting right next to me now that we've assembled that really make Boston's Finest who we are.
[00:44:17] Jessen Fante: Awesome. Now, Adeline, your career is basically consisted of all of my favorite things, cheese, beer. So first of all, how did you get so lucky? And I'm just kidding because it's not luck. It's hard work and dedication and clearly talent. But my real question here is how does it feel to take the helm of such a beloved brand? Well, it feels like an honor and there is luck along the way. I got lucky to meet Sean. We were in a peer group among Vermont business leaders. And I remember being in the room when he announced he would be looking to hire his first CEO because he wanted to make sure that he bring a seasoned leader in his company and he can continue to do what he loves to do best, which is engage with a fan, you know, create new products and really have the time to do that. And so, yeah, I feel very fortunate that I landed in an amazing business that has an incredible culture, amazing products and a very deep sense of purpose. Like this is the real deal here and I'm on month three And gosh, between B Corp certification and this award, it's going to be hard to top that kind of year as your first year of onboarding. So thank you. That is a crazy freshman year. Sean, what made you realize it was time to pass the torch?
[00:45:43] Aimy Steadman: Well, I'm so proud of how far we brought the company through its growth. The organization itself is really only a little over five years old. Um, it was myself and Karen up until 2016. And then we hired our first employee. Uh, we built a team of three in addition to Karen and myself, um, as we shepherded the early growth. And then we were in a position to finally build a destination, a home for Lawson's finest here in Waitsfield, Vermont, which included our, uh, newish production brewery. A tap room, which we never had fans couldn't come to Lawson's finest and get a beer because the brewery was up at a, at our house and a residential location in Warren. And, um, to be able to get our specialty brands out to a wider market that we didn't have the production capacity to do yet. And so as we, as we went through the build out of this new home, we went from five employees, uh, to 50 overnight. And then over the next couple of years, uh, continued to grow. grow the company, build the organization. And once we got to where we are in the last couple of years, the pandemic really helped me to realize what are the things that I gained the most satisfaction, the greatest joy from Sean Lawson's Finest, and that's connecting with the fans, being a brand ambassador, tinkering with beer recipes, doing a little bit of brewing. and really helping to set the vision for the future. And so in order to have more time to do those things and get a little bit more, less time behind the desk. Um, I knew it was time to, to make that change. And also because of the growth of our company, um, to bring in someone who has the type of business experience and leadership with a more established organization that could help us open up the next chapter of growth and maturation for our company. Um, so Karen and I sat over many conversations thinking about what's next for us. Um, and it became clear that for both of us, we really wanted to hire and operationalize our day-to-day jobs. And so for me, that was hiring a CEO. For Karen, it was hiring a social impact program manager, because she's headed up our philanthropy and our social impact program over the last five years. And so we did that this year as well. It's been a lot of change and accomplishments this year. So we were able to hire Kara, who's our new SIP manager, and that gets some time back for Karen and I as a couple. and being able to spend a little bit more time with our family. Like I was just down in Clemson this past weekend rooting on the Tigers at their home stadium at the football game. And so all those things together made it really clear that it was time for us to pass the torch. And really with Craft Beer also being in a change phase, going through a cycle of big change, consolidation, and downturns, Lots of winners and losers in sort of the contraction in the beer market in general. We knew in order to stay a leader in craft beer that we need to keep bringing in fresh ideas, innovation, and solid leadership to bring us into the future.
[00:49:03] Jessen Fante: Amazing. Now, Adeline, it must be a little daunting to be joining the industry at such a cheery and successful time for all of us, but you're new to beer, correct? What do you think you can bring to both the brewery and the industry at large as somebody with fresh eyes, which I think is so important? Yeah, I'm new to beer and but I'm not new to the world of crafts and the importance of craft and product quality and leading with authenticity, connecting with the consumer. You know, I'm originally from the world of dairy and artisan cheeses. So there's a lot of similarity between specialty artisan cheese and craft beer. It's about It's about the quality of the product and making sure you stay true to those principles that guides on how you create a sip of sunshine or very yummy pieces of cheese. And connecting with the consumer, making sure you are responsive to what the consumer wants, where the category is going, making sure your brand is strong and tell a very authentic story. And what I really am passionate about and what drove me out of many reasons to Lawson's Finest Liquids is the purpose. You know, I believe in the motto of using business for good. And what I saw with what Karen and Sean have done is really you know, leading with their value. I mean, it's literally in our world, big and bright, as you can see, the SIP program that has reached over $2 million of contribution over the past couple of years and recently the B Corp certification. To me, I see a lot of similarity between the world I'm from and the world of craft beer. And I see also with exactly like Sean mentioned, so much, You know, headwinds happening in the category. I think new perspective. is going to be a force for us. We have a very diverse leadership team with people from the craft brewery, but also from CPG, from nonprofit. And I think this diversity of thought and experience is also going to help us to continue to run our business differently. And I think that's going to be a secret sauce that continues to move us into the future. Awesome. Now Sean, one thing that I know is really important to the brand is the cold chain. That's like so important to your beers and it's not easy to do. Why has that been the right method for Lawsons?
[00:51:46] Aimy Steadman: From the very beginning, even as a nano brewer, I insisted that our beers kept cold at every step of the way, at the brewery, in storage, in distribution, even from the distribution wholesaler in the trucks to the retailer, and then at the retail level as well. And what I'm really proud of this year is the success that our team has had in building new relationships in chain and grocery and helping to educate the buyers and the key people at those companies on why it's so important to keep the beer cold, to display it cold, and to keep it cold in the back, which is not the standard in grocery or in convenience. And we're only willing to work with those businesses that will commit and follow through on keeping it cold everywhere at each step of the chain. And that's in order to preserve the brewery freshness of the beer. We also really, what's uniquely ownable about Lawson's Finest Liquids our freshness commitment to our customers. So all of our IPAs and our hop-forward beers, we have a 60-day freshness guarantee on the beer. as fresh as it was at the brewery for those first 60 days and beyond that we pull product from the shelf and so that no one else can say that I believe in the industry to have such a short it's not really a shelf life it's telling the customers that our brand promises to get you brewery fresh beer every time you crack open a sip of sunshine or one of our other delicious IPAs and so thankfully in the beginning there was a lot of pull for Lawson's Finest in the marketplace and so that enabled me to convince wholesalers at the beginning to agree in contract and then follow through on that brand promise to keep the beer cold and to get it to customers fresh and price it fairly.
[00:53:49] Jessen Fante: Amazing. Now looking back at the last 15 years, what are you most proud of?
[00:53:55] Aimy Steadman: I think the the people, the team that we've brought together. And on the other side of it, it's the people that enjoy our beer. And there's so many stories that people have shared with us about memorable moments they have connecting over our beer, getting married with our beer, getting engaged with a sip of sunshine at the top of a mountain. It's those stories and those connections with people that really that are the most meaningful to me as a brewer. Because if what we can do in creating a product is something that people can feel good about supporting our company, but they also, it brings a smile to their face enjoying the beer, and then they create their own special memories with experiences that they've had with other people and our beer at the same time, that's really what makes all the hard work worth it every day.
[00:54:53] Jessen Fante: Amazing. Adeline, what are you most looking forward to? to hang around with Sean. It's so fun to spend time with him and hear, you know, not only the past, you know, stories, but also think about where we can take the business forward, all the ideas that maybe he hadn't had time to focus on in the past couple of years, because the business was growing so fast. And so, and looking forward to You know there is a secret sauce here and it's real and I've been in the world of business long enough to observe other businesses and and not everybody has all the pieces of the recipe but it's there it's very you know. such a great culture, such a great product and product with integrity that as we scale, we kept true to that promise of, you know, fresh and kept cold and lots of room for innovation and growth into the future. So my role is not to screw it up and really to take that amazing brew and secret sauce and with the help of the team and Sean and Karen to bring it to the future. We talk a lot about 2.0. what's the 2.0 for us as far as everything we do within the business. So that's what I'm looking forward to, to bring on my expertise, to write the chapter with everybody to create the 2.0 for Lawson's Finest Liquids. Perfect. Well, it has been an absolute joy to speak with you both. Congratulations to the two of you, to Karen, to the whole team. We are thrilled to name you guys the Craft Brewer of the Year. Cheers. Thank you.
[00:56:38] Bill Shufelt: Thank you.
[00:56:39] Jessen Fante: The Beyond Beer Space is filled with a diverse array of products with different alcohol bases, flavors, forms, and packages. But one particular brand in a Tetra Pak has been making itself known in scan data, on shelves, and in the headlines. This year's Beyond Beer Company of the Year is Beatbox Beverages. And here to chat with me about the brand and all of its recent milestones is co-founder and chief operating officer, Aimy Steadman. Welcome, Amy. Hi, how are you? Thanks for having me. Yes, and congrats on being this year's Brewbound Beyond Beer Company of the Year. We're really excited to celebrate you guys this year. Thank you. Thanks for the award. I think it'd be difficult to say that there's anyone who doesn't know what Beatbox is, but for anyone who is unfamiliar with the brand and what its brand identity is, could you describe it? Yeah, Beatbox is designed to bring people together and have fun. The brand is all about community and inclusivity. You know, everybody's welcome to the Beatbox party. We have a bunch of different flavors of our product. They're nostalgic flavors with a kick. So blue raspberry, fruit punch, pink lemonade. Our newest is green apple. So really, you know, flavors that everybody loves and enjoys. We just wrote a couple pieces about you guys, but one that stood out to me was a little note that my colleague Justin Fonte had. Your fellow co-founders were with you in New York for Beer Marketers Insights, sharing some of the details about the brand and who your consumer base is. We knew Beatbox was resonating with younger consumers, but you guys also pointed out that over 50% of your consumers are 42 or older. Can you kind of dive deeper into what that consumer is like? Yeah, we were finally able to purchase some data from Numerator to really look at, you know, who is buying Beatbox. And we knew it was working, you know, all over the United States and all different types of classes of channels. But we didn't know exactly who was buying it. And our consumer, like you mentioned over indexes and Gen Z and millennials, but there are so many shoppers actually in the Gen X and boomers categories as well that that we're speaking to. We also over index and black and Hispanic communities. And our shopper is also one that tends to spend more on average when they go shopping. So this has been some information that retailers have really loved to see as we've put it in front of them, because these are the kind of diverse shoppers that they're looking to bring into their stores. Retailers are definitely responding to that and we're seeing that in your numbers and just the growth and where you guys are and your volume overall. You guys doubled in 2022 and you're going to be just shy of 140,000 barrels this year, which is an insane number. How have you been able to keep up with such massive growth in that time? Yeah, I mean, absolutely. It's a credit to our team. We've made significant investments in hiring folks and providing support, you know, but really also with our company culture. I mean, we want to we want beatbox to be a place where people come to do the best work of their career and have the best time doing it. And so, you know, we've we've not only invested in support so that our wholesaler and retail partners can feel that, you know, support and keep up production and supply for them, but also create some amazing experiences for our fans as well. So just making sure that we don't fall behind in hiring and our company culture so that we can take care of all of those cases and all of the different processes that that involves. If anyone follows Beatbox on LinkedIn or if you're a Brute Bound insider and you're paying attention to our newsletter, you might have seen a celebratory photo of the whole Beatbox crew with Avril Lavigne this year. And that's because you guys collaborated with her on this creator series, Pink Lemonade, and it's expected to sell more than 6 million of them at retailers. This is huge for any brand and a celebrity partnership to where, you know, you never know how a celebrity partnership is going to go. Can you explain how that partnership went and why you think it really resonated with consumers and was so successful? Yeah. I mean, I think just like, you know, beatbox is a, is a brand that's oriented around music and all of our flavors are very nostalgic and kind of flavors that we grew up with. Avril Lavigne is an artist that many of our fans grew up listening to and loving her music, but she's also been creating awesome new music this year and working in expanding her collaborations in different genres from electronic to pop punk, to pop, to even country. And so she's just similar to us in a lot of ways in that she's nostalgic, fun, and trying to speak to a wide, diverse audience. But also she's a genuine fan of the product. She was drinking beatbox before recording in the studio, before we had this partnership. And so her enthusiasm you know, coupled with the fact that she's such an amazing global star was just the right formula for a partnership. It's totally cool. And I was geeking out a lot seeing that partnership come together. Speaking of music, you guys lean pretty heavily into marketing around music festivals, too. That's been we've talked before about the importance of that to your brand and to be able to connect with consumers. Can you talk about how why that's so essential for Beatbox? So, you know, a lot of brands are built in the on-premise, you know, a lot of spirits, brands and other types of alcohol beverage companies build their experience through bars and restaurants. For us, our on-premise strategy is music festivals. We kind of think about it like if you went to a winery in Napa and tried really nice wine and had a great experience there that you would go home and tell all of your friends about it and purchase it at home when you got there. And that's what drinking beatbox at a music festival is like. The product is perfect for music festivals. The whole idea of the brand and the product was born in a music festival. And so it's really perfect for that environment. And once you're having fun with all your friends and beatbox is enhancing your experience. You know, what we find is people go home talking about it, sharing it with their friends, and then when they see it in stores, they're really excited to buy it and kind of relive those vibes from the music festival at home, listening to their favorite music. That's something that's worked really well for us. We tend to sell a lot at music festivals. We're usually one of the top three brands or products being sold. And so for us, the amount of sales also helps us be able to reinvest in sponsoring those festivals because they're not free, obviously, as we know. But the fact that we know that we're going to sell really well makes it a really good return on investment for us to go and do more and more of those events. It seems to be a venue or type of place that more and more alcohol brands are realizing like you can really connect with a consumer there. For sure. It's like a great place to try new products and, you know, just have fun with consumers and do fun things together. you know, activations. We have the beatbox bus that we bring and have artists perform on the bus. We have graffiti walls. We make bracelets with our fans. So it's just a really fun place to interact with, you know, people that are interested in your product. We've chatted before about your distribution strategy and wholesaler strategy as well. So Beatbox is a wine-based product, and you guys originally were looking at wine and spirits distributors, but transitioned to beer wholesalers. How was that particular transition helpful to create this next chapter of growth for Beatbox? You know, convenience is where the majority of beer is sold in the United States. And so that's also where our shoppers are looking for products like beatbox. And so we wanted to make sure that we were aligned with the distribution network that could really. service that channel. It's such a large volume for us. But, you know, convenience stores are also the first chains that took a chance on Beatbox and let us on the stores. Our very first store was a convenience store in Austin, Texas. And so it's always been super important to us. I think we're just now kind of expanding more to the large format, liquor, you know, club channels, some of the other channels that are out there. But convenience has always been really important to us. And we're seeing it's an incredibly important channel for kind of beer overall right now. And so anyone beer beyond who's succeeding in that space is definitely reaping the benefits of it. Absolutely. One thing that we also heard from your co-founders recently was that you guys are targeting $500 million in sales in the next five years. What is your strategy for sustaining your growth to get to that goal? Yeah, I mean, I think when you look at Beatbox as compared to other brands in terms of rate of sale, whenever we get in to stores, we perform as one of the top brands in the store. And so we feel that we really have earned the right and deserve to be in, you know, almost all of the distribution that's available in off-premise. So we're definitely on a mission to get Beatbox into, you know, 75%, 80% of all off-premise distribution. We also haven't even touched the on-premise channel as much as I mentioned earlier. And so any place people are having fun, be it, you know, sports stadiums to restaurants, things like that. That's another channel too, that we're just now getting into with our, you know, really high rate of sale. We really feel the right that we've earned to be in a ton of different stores. And so we're working with our wholesaler and our retailer partners to make sure that the millions of people that are looking for beatbox on a daily basis can find the product in stores near them. My final question for you, Amy, and I think we could talk about everything going on with Beatbox forever. And so you can just check Brewbound or you can hear from Amy yourself on stage during Brewbound Live. But my final question for you here, and I'm asking all of our award winners, what is something that you have learned as a decision maker in the BevElg industry that you think is important for other industry members to know or that they can learn from? Yeah, well, the alcohol beverage industry, nothing happens by yourself, right? Everything is working with channel partners. And so we brought it on ourselves to bring the fun back to the beer industry. We want everybody that interacts with anyone from our team to have a friendly and helpful experience. We want to be the easiest partner to work with. And that's why, you know, I think our company culture is really what's driving our success is working with our wholesalers, working with our retailers to solve their problems. So ultimately we can get in front of the consumer and have fun with them too. So that's our mission to make the world more fun. And so we're hopeful to bring that to all of our partners that really make our success possible as well. Well, congrats again to the whole Beatbox team that made all of your successes happen so far and made us want to award you the Beyond Beer Company of the Year. Can't wait to see what else you guys get up to. Thank you so much. We really appreciate it.
[01:08:36] Justin Kendall: And that's our show for this week. Thanks to Jess and Zoe. Thanks to our one-man audio team, Joe. And thanks to all of you for listening. We'll be back next week.
